Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)


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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:51 am

Post by Joubert »

Brief follow-up on SpyreX comments:
Joubert wrote:I beg to differ. A Townie can certainly be killed (call it a "sacrifice") in order to uncover Scum. It becomes a beneficial "investment", if you excuse the methaphor...
(In reference to Forbid's selfvote).
You are correct in theory, but the sacrifice implies furthering the towns knowledge AND normally isn't done with a "woe is me" sytle selfvote. This "investment" may pay off for the town, OR if both k7 and forbid are town it sure pays off for the scum in spades.
It was not especially in reference to Forbid's selfvote, actually. You made up this part and stuck with it afterwards...
When the vote is a swing OMGUS that isn't even committal enough to actually vote, yes, it raises my suspicion. I'm not saying OMGUS is always a scumtell but I sure am not implying it never is like your question does.
Raises your suspicions towards the OMGUS-er or the OMGUS-ee? Your reaction is still noteworthy, though. I didn't imply nothing. Do you think I implied something relevant?

LaptopGun did quote another game for some obscure reason. And then:
I've come to live with the sometimes bizarre or paranoid behavior I've done as a townie.
Looks like a strange excuse for strange behavior.

I'd rather call it Appeal
to
Emotion. Here.

WON'T SOMEBODY
PLEASE
THINK OF THE CHILDREN?

forbiddanlight - 6 (killa seven, armlx, SpyreX, Manito, Firestarter, Corinthian)
killa seven - 2 (CF Riot, forbiddanlight)
LaptopGun - 1 (Bogre)
Gimbo - 1 (dcorbe)
Joubert - 1 (ShadowGirl)

Not Voting - FaerieLord, Voodo, LaptopGun, Joubert, Gimbo

16 alive, 9 to lynch.

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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:56 am

Post by armlx »

Common Sense or Gut.
Unless you can make your Gut into Logic, the right play is Common Sense.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:04 am

Post by Firestarter »

Welcome Faerie, but in this game your my FL 2... :)
FaerieLord wrote:53: Firestart (/) Please...pulling theories after one complete game...is bad!
Apologies, I cant help having only completed 1 game...

But I see why you would consider it bad I suppose...
FaerieLord wrote:I'm having trouble what to obey right now...

Common Sense or Gut.
Its very possible that FL1 is just playing "bad", and has landed in the shit. However, she has pointed to the fact that she has played Mafia before, elsewhere if Im not mistaken. So the possibilty of her playing as "bad game townie" isn't really washing with me, alot due to her defences she's offered, or lack of it. For the most part she has attacked the people who have attacked her most....
Killa first, as he attacked first..
Me, because I attacked next..
And other players on a decreasing scale based on
how much they have attacked her/not attacked her....

Pretty OMGUS if you ask me, and no base to her attacks otherwise.
_____________________________________________________________

On another note,
We have 2 FL's in game now, maybe address them a 1 & 2, based on who has been here longer, for clarification.
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:26 am

Post by forbiddanlight »

Yeah, nice spin Firestarter. Bogre and Corinthian have both attacked me a lot. K7 isn't even attacking me anymore. Quite frankly, ANY accusations I make are going to make it look like I'm attacking someone attacking me because guess where the evidence is? In how people attack me!
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:49 am

Post by Firestarter »

forbiddanlight wrote:Yeah, nice spin Firestarter. Bogre and Corinthian have both attacked me a lot. K7 isn't even attacking me anymore. Quite frankly, ANY accusations I make are going to make it look like I'm attacking someone attacking me because guess where the evidence is? In how people attack me!
Then point to the evidence, rather than saying "stop attacking me"....

Also, you keep calling me out for lying, when the fact is that altough you have said that it was a plan initially to uncover the scum, the alternative is the reverse.....
Scum trying to frame a townie....

Im not lying, like you keep saying I am, Im merely pointing to FACT....

And as a result of my alternative, youve gone pretty weak at the knees, and are blindly throwing accusations around, such as me lying....

forbiddanlight wrote:Ok, first, I can't fine AfE in the wiki, so can you tell me what that means? And second, alright, I'll try to give you my reads. I've done it a couple times but you were right, those were in a very OMGUS context.


killa seven - "Don't vote yourself and hunt scum" then "vote:forbiddanlight". Trying to "Call my bluff". Yet for some reason, you believe HE had a plan after he got called out on bad play, but you think I'M just reaching. Even if he's attacking me, that's scummy behavior. More of the same throughout this whole issue. He is where my vote is, of course.

Firestarter - Doesn't see anything warranting an FoS on either me OR Killa!? We both were reasonably scummy at that point. Further justification by "not wanting to throw FoS's around". An FoS is not a vote. It runs very little danger while getting your thoughts out there. I don't like this.THEN he misinterprets EVERYTHING I say to make the wagon on me look even more desirable? Hell, I'm half tempted to switch my vote here now. I realize it seems OMGUS, but seriously, take a look at how he's attacking me. So, he's second most scummy to me.

CF Riot- Votes K7, but says I'm making myself scummier and scummier by each post. So switch vote to me, or explain why K7 is still scummier, beyond what you've already pointed out. Third Scummiest, actually, but it's slightly weak, but stronger than the other reads below this


dcorbe - ignores the early stages of my self vote plan, and doesn't weigh in on the current debate now. But, hasn't posted anything around here. It's mostly the fact that he says something completely unrelated to the self vote thing, as if he's purposely trying to avoid being drawn in. Again, weak, but my fourth most scummiest read


Manito - Too agreeable with what everyone else says. I don't like that. Buuut...I really don't have anything else on him. I'll put him at fifth scummiest.

LaptopGun - No weigh in on the killa vs. forbiddan thing. He did the whole "something odd" with the random votes, but is no where to be found after that. This is my WEAKEST scum read but I still feel he could be scum. Fifth most scummiest read.


ShadowGirl -Also not weighing in, but I think she said she had IRL troubles. I want to hear what she has to say soon. Not even scummy, just I wanna hear what she has to say.

I think that covers everyone who caught my attention. Bogre just seems to be the type that will hardline to force a defense so he can examine it. Corinthian makes me feel slightly uneasy, but it feels like he's trying for find inconsistancies, much like a police officer would. Gimbo seems to be a bit too forgiving, but hey, I'll take what I can get. SpyreX, I rather liked his analysis post, as well as Joubert's. Speaking of which, I want a follow up on Joubert's inquisition. In fact, I like analysis posts in general because it gets a lot of thoughts out there and can shed light on inconsistancies. And, I have nothing so far on you, FL, except that you genuinely want to keep an open mind and let me defend myself. I of course see this as a plus. So, that's what you wanted, I hope it helps when people realize I'm telling the truth, whether by my lynch or an improvement in my play.

.
You say in your last post (quoted at the top of this post) that Bogre & Corinthian are attacking you, yet in your synopsis post above, you havent given either a special one liner, like the rest, yet you seem to be saying that they are attacking you more than Killa!!
I find that very strange indeed....

And for the Killa mention, you have him at the top of your list on the last page, yet your now saying he isn't attacking you any more???
I think thats because he hasn't posted since your synopsis post... and you only posted that today!!!! (today, being where I am located)

Im very comfortable where my vote lays right now.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:53 am

Post by Corinthian »

Agree with forbid on the last two posts.

She's right, I've sniped her arguments, but she repeatedly called me probable town.

starting to think there is something to her repeated accusations that firestarter is twisting her words.

Also, she's right that most of what people are talking about right now is her case and whether or not it's scummy.

Doesn't make her town, but does make it look like firestarter might be trying hard to distance himself.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:02 am

Post by Firestarter »

Corinthian wrote:Agree with forbid on the last two posts.

She's right, I've sniped her arguments, but she repeatedly called me probable town.

starting to think there is something to her repeated accusations that firestarter is twisting her words.

Also, she's right that most of what people are talking about right now is her case and whether or not it's scummy.

Doesn't make her town, but does make it look like firestarter might be trying hard to distance himself.
So basically you think that FL1 is ok because she reckons your town??
And that I might be scum beacuse she thinks so also??
Dont be so naive....

BTW, what do you think Im trying to distance myself from per say???

___________________________________________________________________

May I also add that if we were to take posts the way that the posters wanted them to be percieved, we would get nowhere, and we'd be all thinking that everyone is Town....
So, FL using the word twist may seem clever, but that is not the case when I pointed to the Alternative of her ploy.... Which was her being scum trying to frame an over aggressive townie....
It is not lying, nor twisting words, as FL has so eloquently put it, it is however a possibilty that was 50:50 at the time of my posting it, was it not???
That ratio, to me, is fairly lopsided at her being scum now, after what has been posted by her since then....

If you want to argue the point that this is not a possibilty, and strengthened tenfold since it was initially suggested by FL1's posting style, then I would suggest again that you should stop being naive.
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:02 am

Post by forbiddanlight »

You say in your last post (quoted at the top of this post) that Bogre & Corinthian are attacking you, yet in your synopsis post above, you havent given either a special one liner, like the rest, yet you seem to be saying that they are attacking you more than Killa!!
I find that very strange indeed....
So, wait, I'm scum for supposedly only OMGUSing people...but then, when I say that some of my attackers are town, that's evidence for me being scum too? I'm...not sure I follow, Firestarter.

And for the Killa mention, you have him at the top of your list on the last page, yet your now saying he isn't attacking you any more???
I think thats because he hasn't posted since your synopsis post... and you only posted that today!!!! (today, being where I am located)
I phrased that badly. He's no longer actively attacking me, though he was attacking me, hence why I said that. To be honest, he seems to just throw in the occasional "Yeah, you look scummy" and doesn't even try to back it up as much as everyone else has been backing their votes. I still think he's pretty much definite scum, even though that's possibly my own falling to self fulfilling prophecy. Really, thinking on it...I actually feel evidentially better about a
unvote, vote Firestarter
than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
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TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:10 am

Post by Firestarter »

May I ask why you have placed your vote on me, rather than leaving it where you believe scum to be???

And Ive checked back through K7's recent posts, and I dont see him throwing votes around, his last few posts were aimed at you, like most other players.

It helps to quote posts....
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:15 am

Post by Firestarter »

forbiddanlight wrote: So, wait, I'm scum for supposedly only OMGUSing people...but then, when I say that some of my attackers are town, that's evidence for me being scum too? I'm...not sure I follow, Firestarter.
You saying that some of your attackers are not scum is full of WIFOM....
Again, there are alternatives to that, like them being fellow scum, them being town and leaving a breadcrumb for their lynch..

Do you follow now???
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:25 am

Post by forbiddanlight »

One problem with that theory Fire. I'm gonna flip town. And once AGAIN you twist my words
And Ive checked back through K7's recent posts, and I dont see him throwing votes around, his last few posts were aimed at you, like most other players.
I never SAID he was throwing votes around, what I said what he was directing a lot of the same "you look scummy" at me. And about my vote, both of you are likely scum in my eyes, it's just that I honestly feel the evidence supports voting you better than the evidence supports killa.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
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TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:39 am

Post by Firestarter »

forbiddanlight wrote:I phrased that badly. He's no longer actively attacking me, though he was attacking me, hence why I said that. To be honest, he seems to just throw in the occasional "Yeah, you look scummy" and doesn't even try to back it up as much as everyone else has been backing their votes. I still think he's pretty much definite scum, even though that's possibly my own falling to self fulfilling prophecy. Really, thinking on it...I actually feel evidentially better about a
unvote, vote Firestarter
than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.
My choice of wording was wrong, you did not say vote....
But you did say he throws in the occasional "yeah" here & there...
Please, quote them for me, full posts...
But you have contradicted yourself something fierce in that post, first you say your
definite that Killa is scum
, then you move your vote to me...
Are you also definite about me being scum?
forbiddanlight wrote:And about my vote, both of you are likely scum in my eyes, it's just that I honestly feel the evidence supports voting you better than the evidence supports killa.
Firestarter wrote:
May I ask why you have placed your vote on me,
rather than leaving it where you believe scum to be???
I would very much like a concise post from you based on your recent change of votes from Killa to me....

And I wont settle for this again....
forbiddanlight wrote:I actually feel evidentially better about a
unvote, vote Firestarter
than I do about Killa. I feel emotionally that Killa is scum though, as well as somewhat evidentially with the fact he hasn't seemed to back himself up much, if at all. So, that's where I stand.
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:27 pm

Post by forbiddanlight »


I would very much like a concise post from you based on your recent change of votes from Killa to me....
Don't be an idiot. I've been saying why the whole time. You twist my words to make the case look worse on me. You are obviously attempting to manipulate this into a lynch. I've only said that and cited examples in my past 5 or so posts! As for what Killa's doing?
killa seven wrote:lol i figured youd cop out and say, "i was baiting scum" ive seen this done before, your not fooling me. dont play the poor me im under pressure, vote = myself i dont want to play anymore then try to turn me into scum for voting a quiter who cant handle pressure.
killa seven wrote:from what your saying, first your saying i was having a bad day so i voted my self, then your saying you had a plan all along. to me it seems like you really wanted to quit and voted yourself and then later retracted and pretended it was all a master plan.
(reiterating the same thing for the most part, and others had said it already)

Ok, there were 3 posts from him after my whole plan, buuuut, the third one is just mentioning something in reference to what I said. I screwed up thinking he said the same thing more than twice. Honestly, when you are being attacked by everyone, you sometimes screw up your counts. Either way, there's even more the fact I still find him scummy even though he hasn't recently attacked me. And he's definate scum, sure. But there's no chance I'll pull a lynch on him. You making an utter ass of yourself by twisting every single thing I say to a scum motivation is a lynchable offense. There's a DIFFERENCE between presenting facts in a manner that is relatively unbiased and drawing a scum tell from it (like pretty much most of my other attackers), and presenting fallacies by twisting sentences, taking them out of context, and all over trying to make a case look worse to push the lynch faster so no one looks elsewhere. Nice try, but I'm PRETTY sure on you too, not as sure as I am on Killa, but you've definitely given your share of scumminess.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
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TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:35 pm

Post by Firestarter »

Yeah, Ive given off scuminess by twisting your words..... ok...

See my last few posts if you need clarification as to what I actually was doing......
Giving alternatives.
The fact you have reacted so badly, imo, is the reason I think of you as scum.

BTW, lets not get personal here, Im pretty sure your no idiot, and I can assure you that I aint an idiot either....

Now, am I gonna get a concise post from you or not?
Its the 2nd time you have evaded my request...
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:51 pm

Post by forbiddanlight »

Really? I thought the above was pretty concise. Let me spell it out. You are twisting my words, and are denying it. Thusly, I see an evidential case on you. Hence my vote. What more do you want?
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
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TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:54 pm

Post by forbiddanlight »

I apologize for calling you an utter ass and an idiot, however. That was uncalled for.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug

TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:55 pm

Post by forbiddanlight »

As for why I reacted so badly? Well, I AM being lynched here, and I AM a townie...sooo, ya know, I kinda am trying to catch scum. Scum have more reason to twist words to make a case better than townies do.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug

TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:56 pm

Post by SpyreX »

It was not especially in reference to Forbid's selfvote, actually. You made up this part and stuck with it afterwards...
No, it was in repsonse to Gimbo who was, in fact, saying that statement in regards to the whole Forbid fiasco. So, if you weren't talking about Forbid specifically... why did you bother even bringing it up? I assumed it was relevant to the conversation.
Raises your suspicions towards the OMGUS-er or the OMGUS-ee? Your reaction is still noteworthy, though. I didn't imply nothing. Do you think I implied something relevant?
You said:
Is OMGUS
supposed
to be considered a scum-tell?
Why is that there if you dont feel it is? Are you just fishing for semantics arguments?

And, where I put it originally, it would be the one who made the OMGUS - I thought that really was the whole idea behind the OMGUS.

Jou,

What are your feelings on whats going on? Suspects, anything?
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:09 pm

Post by Manito »

Wow, you two are really going at it. Take a breather guys...

forbiddanlight, I can see your point when you say the primary focus at the moment seems to be on how you're defending yourself based off the attacks currently being made against you, and that no one is focusing on the whole reason and wrongness/rightness of why you were attacked in the first place. While I don't want to necessarily detract from the current discussion, what we should be ultimately looking at here, folks, is whether her attempts to (as she puts it) oust or rile a mafia into attacking her were one of two things:

(1) was it successful in revealing mafia?

and

(2) whether was it a (a)scum tactic to throw suspicion off a partner, or a (b)town tactic to incite action from scum - was the action itself too questionable in execution to exclude part (a)?

No offense Firestarter, but it seems like a lot of your arguments don't directly relate to these questions, and they seem to relate more to forbiddan's somewhat heated attempts to defend herself.

However, it all makes for great discussion, and I'm lovin' it :)
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:23 pm

Post by Firestarter »

forbiddanlight wrote:I apologize for calling you an utter ass and an idiot, however. That was uncalled for.
Apology accepted.
forbiddanlight wrote:Really? I thought the above was pretty concise. Let me spell it out. You are twisting my words, and are denying it. Thusly, I see an evidential case on you. Hence my vote. What more do you want?
I think the below quote needs to be read again, its very relevant to whats going on here.
Firestarter wrote: May I also add that if we were to take posts the way that the posters wanted them to be percieved, we would get nowhere, and we'd be all thinking that everyone is Town....
So, FL using the word twist may seem clever, but that is not the case when I pointed to the Alternative of her ploy.... Which was her being scum trying to frame an over aggressive townie....
It is not lying, nor twisting words, as FL has so eloquently put it, it is however a possibilty that was 50:50 at the time of my posting it, was it not???
_____________________________________________________________

FL, please read my earlier post quoted above, and tell me what you make of it.

Now use this in relation to what has happened since then.

I am no more twisting your words than you would have yourself believe, and your continued shabby posting in reply does not help you.

However, your activity is fairly high, and the absence of most of the other players in this game has been noted.

If you are not scum, and its by no means clear cut at this moment based on your posts alone, then scum are watching this exchange rubbing their hands in anticipation of a mislynch.
This is another alternative town must consider here.

At this moment however, Im downgrading my vote,
UNVOTE
, to a
FoS
= FL

I would like to hear the rest of the players views here.
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:25 pm

Post by Gimbo »

2 possibilities

1) forbid is a genius and she's doing a damn good job of scumhunting for town

2) forbid is screwing up town and taking it in the wrong direction

however, neither options are indications of her alignment. A scum could be either 1 or 2.

Therefore, we have two options

1) lynch forbid, to find out what the hell's going on and even if she's town and i rescind what i said be4 that a town should never be killed; if it helps town gain essential info. then it could be beneficial.

2) drop this whole case and from the discussion that's been made, everyone makes in-depth analysis unrelated to the whole forbid-K7 fiasco, which most likely isn't doing much.

any other ideas?
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Mini 634 The Baron's Court
Mini 625 Essential Liberties Mafia
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:33 pm

Post by forbiddanlight »

For once I agree with you Firestarter. A step back would be wise. I might very well be being unfair to Firestarter because I know what I mean, and seeing it misconstrued rather annoys me. Now, I am by no means saying Firestarter has CONVINCED me that he wasn't trying to twist my words, but for now, I'll
Unvote Firestarter, FoS:Firestarter, FoS: Killa Seven[/b (if I haven't already)]. I'm not going to revote killa yet either, since I think I've trapped myself into a line of though, which is a bad idea for scumhunting. You end up just seeing everything as more "evidence" to confirm your belief and ignore actual evidence.

As for your post, I think you were twisting words AFTER you mentioned the alternative. I was fine with the idea that I might be trying to draw in an overaggressive townie. It makes sense to think that, since to be fair, given the scumminess of my posts. What I was against was how everything I said seemed to have a Firestarter response taking what I say, making it mean something completely different, to bolster the case on me. So, I'm going to do an open minded reread (which I should have done awhile ago but rather wanted to be right so I convinced myself I was right)
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug

TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:38 pm

Post by Firestarter »

Gimbo wrote:2 possibilities

1) forbid is a genius and she's doing a damn good job of scumhunting for town

2) forbid is screwing up town and taking it in the wrong direction

however, neither options are indications of her alignment. A scum could be either 1 or 2.

Therefore, we have two options

1) lynch forbid, to find out what the hell's going on and even if she's town and i rescind what i said be4 that a town should never be killed; if it helps town gain essential info. then it could be beneficial.

2) drop this whole case and from the discussion that's been made, everyone makes in-depth analysis unrelated to the whole forbid-K7 fiasco, which most likely isn't doing much.

any other ideas?
1. We cannot dismiss the possibility that Forbid is scum trying to entice an over-aggressive townie.

2. We cannot dismiss that both could be scum playing with a gambit.

3. Theres also the possibilty of both being town. And that Forbid just got it horribly wrong.

I would prefer if we discussed what has taken place in relation to the K7/Forbid case, and the recent exchange from Forbid & myself, side by side with any other discussions about other suspects.
('') (':') ('')
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:45 pm

Post by LaptopGun »

@ Joubert. Sorry I am apparently rubbing you the wrong way.

If the FL/FS fracas is a scum gambit, it's very very very risky. FL seems the scummier of the two. I'm seeing FS as aggressive townie.
Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:55 pm

Post by LaptopGun »

I meant to say the FL/Killa7 one. I do see firestarter as an aggressive townie and killa is looking par for the course of this game . On a completely tangitally related note, it's possible FL/FS connection does exist. I just can't see anything gained out of that gambit for the risk, on top of that hell fire and brimstone being tossed around didn't seem fake.
Shoot first and you're a war hero. Shoot last and you're a casualty.

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