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[Zote the Mighty]

The only thing in Looker's ISO I dislike right now is his vote on Elements.

Is there a reasonable opposition or just a lack of understanding?

I assume you're referring to me questioning your vote on Elements, to which I'd reply that I don't understand where it comes from. Why did you vote someone who has been V/LA most of the day?

[Zote the Mighty]

I just got back from slaying many great beasts in the caverns of Hallownest. They could not stand the wrath of Zote the Mighty and his appropriately named weapon, 'Life Ender.' I've heard tales of an arena where great warriors gather to fight. Perhaps I may discover this arena some day.

In the meantime, I will review the Looker case.

[Zote the Mighty]

Precept Five: Strength Beats Strength. Is your opponent strong? No matter! Simply overcome their strength with even more strength, and theyll soon be defeated.

[Zote the Mighty]

@Mod, V/LA until Thursday, might extend due to wildfire conditions.

I wish you good luck and safety in your endeavors.

Precept Forty-Eight: Be Careful With Fire. Fire is a type of hot spirit that dances about recklessly. It can warm you and provide light, but it will also singe your shell if it gets too close.

[Zote the Mighty]

That's basically what I'm feeling at the moment, for what it's worth.

I really, REALLY hate Day 1 because I've got nothing tangible to work with.

I've got both profii and Zote getting fussy over putting pressure on Looker, and I'm not so sure how to read that so early in the game.

Go ahead and read Zote's ISO. Theres a shitload of posts, but he's probably said the same amount of non-fluff as you.

That's not even my post cur! This feels like an intentional misquote

VOTE: Saladman I'm interested in pushing this. Ultimate Plank is another wagon I could get on board with as well.

literally only things Zote has talked about Salad so far:

I've seen town!salad be really inconsistent that way as well.

Oh please don't tell me saladman is mislynch bait I hate when I'm not allowed to push on people doing bad things because they always do bad things HaHa lol so randumb

From the rumblings I've heard deep in the depths of Hallownest, where I just slayed a great 30 foot long beast, Salad is known for being what one would call 'lynchbaity.'

In short, I can't stand Day 1. Least favorite part of the game. We have literally nothing to work with.

I don't mind hammering at L-1, but I will relax on it being a quickhammer, because we'd need a claim.

If something interesting happens during Day 1 then I'll pick at it, but I'm not interested in being paranoid-psycho on everything Day 1 like others can and do. It's a waste of my time. As bodies hit the floor I can actually start parsing out who is who.

Boycotting Day 1 entirely isn't the way to go about it though cur. There's plenty of information to be gained from wagons such as who supported it, who was against it, who hopped on etc. In particular I did not care for Saladman's hop on, especially with his intent to put you at L-1. It felt overly cautious .

Basically only case is 'overly cautious L1'ing wake'

Same with him wanting to wagon UltimatePlank, the only times he mentions ultimate are 'why do you townread alimdia' and 'why you pressure Looker'

LOL!

Do you not agree that Salad was being a bit too cautious when announcing intent to put Wake at L-1?

As for Plank, some of his reactions have been pinging me. In particular I did not like his hop on the Looker wagon. 408 is a sketchy post as well and it feels like a jump reaction to someone questioning the Looker wagon. Sort of like a 'why would you not vote for this person?' kind of reaction.

Do you expect me to have full cases on people when we're still early in Day 1 and little has been established? I find it troubling that you are so confident in your reads.

[Zote the Mighty]

So basically the case against Looker is his lack of contribution or substance in his posts. Is that not very similar to the case that was against Wake in the beginning? I find it odd that the players in support of the Looker wagon were the same people who were against the Wake wagon are in support of the Looker wagon despite the similar reasoning.

[UltimatePlank]

VOTE: Looker

Back to this after that last page. Have to go to work.

[Saudade]

Let me remind you all that just because your points may be correct and make sense, that does not mean that the case you've built will yield scum at the end of it

[Saudade]

After rereading the game and focusing on Looker's posts,
well

guy posts like a robot

[Saudade]

I had UltimatePlank marked as scum in my mind but now I feel otherwise

[Saudade]

Wake's gameplay hasn't improved at all

[Saudade]

I like Zote's posting as well..
it seems like I'm piling up a lot of townreads...

You could dig out scum in wake88, looker and elements for roughly the same reasons more or less

[Saudade]

I don't know how to read alimdia at all

[profii]

He reminds me of Wake in terms of trying to read - similarly logical I think

Where’s vortuka at

[profii]

Wimpy has requested replacement

Town rep out

Could you explain why you find his replace-out townie, cur?

If he was scum he'd be doing a good job because he inspired a 7 page festival of nonsense, you are not likely to rep out if you are doing a good job

I ask about Vortuka because this is on my mind a little bit

[Elbirn]

I had UltimatePlank marked as scum in my mind but now I feel otherwise

Can you spoonfeed me a reason for plank-town? I have a lot of lazy scumreads and he's one of them, help me narrow things down friend

[Elements]

I had UltimatePlank marked as scum in my mind but now I feel otherwise

Can you spoonfeed me a reason for plank-town? I have a lot of lazy scumreads and he's one of them, help me narrow things down friend

They decided to completely fabricate my read on wake which I had at no point eluded to or given and used that to push me as scum multiple times. When no one was joining in they as good as dropped it.

In 409 they responded to profii in such a jumble of minced words I had to read it twice to understand what they were saying. It's phrased in such a way to make people skimming the thread think salad is scummy when in actual fact the arguments being used are cyclical and make zero sense.

I think 435 and 456 are distancing posts. 435 starts out looking like looker is building up a scum case for UP but then looker decided to keep his vote on me even after using UP's push on me as reasoning for them being scummy? Doesn't make sense.

I think both Looker and UP are scum here.
VOTE: UP
because I don't know how many looker is on and I cba to count.

[Elbirn]

Lack of protest of the wake wagon falling down is noted. Any thoughts from anyone?

I feel it was opportunistic scum, honestly. When people don't have to give reasoning, anybody can jump on a wagon.

Finally, the wake wagon filled up really fast with a very small amount of resistance, and fell away as fast.
Whereas this looker wagon has some real resistance to it. People are either not commenting on it or parking their votes on people with just 1 vote. We need to pressure this slot more.

Join me on this wagon!

I would investigate those members on the Wake wagon. My wagon's experiencing resistance because: (A) The reasoning is weirdly selective - you target me over Element despite him having no content (B) The scum that jumped on Wake looking for a quicklynch would look hella scummy if they hopped on my wagon with no hesitation

[...]

So, here's the deal: I'll keep my vote on Elements until he returns or is replaced out; however, upon his return and input, I'm prepared to place my final vote of D1.

Based on your post above, edited for clarity, you should be looking for someone who was on the wake wagon who didn't then join your wagon.

1. Well who is it?

2. Why do you instead continue to have a bizarre fixation on Elements instead? If there was a time to move on over to bigger and better things it's with this post, but instead you posture about how you're going to move and continue to vote park someone who at the time wasn't even here.

[alimdia]

I need people to support this wagon. The evidence is damning...

@Plank, come back on this
@Saudade, @profii, @wake88 What do you think of the stuff I just laid out? Join the wagon if in agreement please
@Eibirn, @Elements hopefully you guys read my stuff in detail

Also... if someone, for example me, lays out a good case about why someone is scum, provides evidence, example and so on...
Why does anyone that reads it have to provide additional original reasoning in order to join the wagon? The whole point is I'm trying to
1) find scum
2) convince other people to agree with me and vote with me.

If my case convinces people, I don't see why they have to find some other extra reasoning to vote with me.
It's only when its like ... the wake wagon where there's not really a case that its suspicious.

Firstly I think you a town. You seem pretty convinced that Looker is doing something worth digging into which is cool. I wouldnt expect scum to drive a day 1 wagon from scratch like this...

However, I am curious about Looker, but I dont feel a need to vote right now... I have specific questions, if he answers them satisfactorily, then cool, I probably wont vote. If not, I'll either ask more questions or just vote. I dont feel the need to just jump in though - what if we evaluate someone and we decide they are town, but they dont want to work together because they feel like you gave them a hard time? then how do we catch scum - we need to play the long game here... it's a team sport.


To your point about extra reasoning - I would say on day 1, it's not like we have a PR saying I saw slot X do action Y to slot Z which is clear scum - if that was the case I'd say fine, quick-lynch. This is day 1 - we know nothing - all the players are humans and have their own perspective, I'd expect it to be simple enough for 10 different people to evaluate a situation and say 'I agree with part A but not so much part B' and have 10 different opinions - if people all come in and just go 'yep vote' at this early stage, something is wrong - so there isn't a rush right now.

I mean look at how fast the wake wagon went, and how slow this Looker wagon is, even tho my case on Looker has way more content than the case on wake. Also what questions? Have you asked them to Looker or are you waiting for him to answer my case?

That's basically what I'm feeling at the moment, for what it's worth.

I really, REALLY hate Day 1 because I've got nothing tangible to work with.

I've got both profii and Zote getting fussy over putting pressure on Looker, and I'm not so sure how to read that so early in the game.

Go ahead and read Zote's ISO. Theres a shitload of posts, but he's probably said the same amount of non-fluff as you.

That's not even my post cur! This feels like an intentional misquote

I've already addressed this in 436. Are you intentionally not reading to throw sand at me?

[alimdia]

Do you not agree that Salad was being a bit too cautious when announcing intent to put Wake at L-1?

As for Plank, some of his reactions have been pinging me. In particular I did not like his hop on the Looker wagon. 408 is a sketchy post as well and it feels like a jump reaction to someone questioning the Looker wagon. Sort of like a 'why would you not vote for this person?' kind of reaction.

Do you expect me to have full cases on people when we're still early in Day 1 and little has been established? I find it troubling that you are so confident in your reads.

Yes he was a bit too cautious, but that could have been a mariad of reasons - e.g. town afraid of someone quickhammering, or scum trying to not look opportunistic are the top 2 that come to my mind.

I don't need you to have a full case. Just more than what you had for Salad, where you went from "Salad is lynchbait" to "Vote Salad because of L-1 thing"

Regarding your comments about Plank, those comments would have been good ... when you made the accusation of Plank being scummy, instead of only now, you know what I mean?

[alimdia]

So basically the case against Looker is his lack of contribution or substance in his posts. Is that not very similar to the case that was against Wake in the beginning? I find it odd that the players in support of the Looker wagon were the same people who were against the Wake wagon are in support of the Looker wagon despite the similar reasoning.

No that is not at all the full case against Looker. Simply ISO me and look at my last 10 or so posts, some of which were literally on the last 1-3 pages.

Let me remind you all that just because your points may be correct and make sense, that does not mean that the case you've built will yield scum at the end of it

...... so how do we yield scum then?

I had UltimatePlank marked as scum in my mind but now I feel otherwise

Explain more?

I had UltimatePlank marked as scum in my mind but now I feel otherwise

Can you spoonfeed me a reason for plank-town? I have a lot of lazy scumreads and he's one of them, help me narrow things down friend

They decided to completely fabricate my read on wake which I had at no point eluded to or given and used that to push me as scum multiple times. When no one was joining in they as good as dropped it.

In 409 they responded to profii in such a jumble of minced words I had to read it twice to understand what they were saying. It's phrased in such a way to make people skimming the thread think salad is scummy when in actual fact the arguments being used are cyclical and make zero sense.

I think 435 and 456 are distancing posts. 435 starts out looking like looker is building up a scum case for UP but then looker decided to keep his vote on me even after using UP's push on me as reasoning for them being scummy? Doesn't make sense.

I think both Looker and UP are scum here.
VOTE: UP
because I don't know how many looker is on and I cba to count.

I do believe that Looker is on 4 votes at the moment. Also.. can you say plank instead of UP? Took me a while to figure out who UP was.

[alimdia]

Lack of protest of the wake wagon falling down is noted. Any thoughts from anyone?

I feel it was opportunistic scum, honestly. When people don't have to give reasoning, anybody can jump on a wagon.

Finally, the wake wagon filled up really fast with a very small amount of resistance, and fell away as fast.
Whereas this looker wagon has some real resistance to it. People are either not commenting on it or parking their votes on people with just 1 vote. We need to pressure this slot more.

Join me on this wagon!

I would investigate those members on the Wake wagon. My wagon's experiencing resistance because: (A) The reasoning is weirdly selective - you target me over Element despite him having no content (B) The scum that jumped on Wake looking for a quicklynch would look hella scummy if they hopped on my wagon with no hesitation

[...]

So, here's the deal: I'll keep my vote on Elements until he returns or is replaced out; however, upon his return and input, I'm prepared to place my final vote of D1.

Based on your post above, edited for clarity, you should be looking for someone who was on the wake wagon who didn't then join your wagon.

1. Well who is it?

2. Why do you instead continue to have a bizarre fixation on Elements instead? If there was a time to move on over to bigger and better things it's with this post, but instead you posture about how you're going to move and continue to vote park someone who at the time wasn't even here.

Yea exactly, look at my post 443

[alimdia]

@Elements, never mind after some recounting, it seems like Looker is still on 3 votes. Plank unvoted and then re-voted him again.

I think while finding connections is crucial in this game in terms of looking for scum partnering possibilities, we shouldn't have 2 seperate wagons. I need to read Plank later to see what you are saying, but for now if you think Looker is scum, you should be on the Looker wagon.

[Elbirn]

Yea exactly, look at my post 443

Oh. Sorry my eyes tend to glaze over when I see long-posting and my memory is literal garbage. Please accept this as a pre-emptive apology for when I inevitably angrily demand answers to questions that have already been asked/answered by other people even on the same damn page. I mean well, honest.

[Elbirn]

Let me remind you all that just because your points may be correct and make sense, that does not mean that the case you've built will yield scum at the end of it

...... so how do we yield scum then?

Welcome to Mafia, where the rules are made up and the points don't matter!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Looker