Nothing, of course. Personally, I think he was town.Hmmmm.... and what do you know of Gimbo's alignment?
I dont like this, seems to say "we need to lynch forbiddan eventually". Spyrex also called her actions a possible scum gambit, still not voting thoughSpyreX wrote: there are enough questions about forbid's alignment that we're going to have to lynch before lylo.
Correction:SpyreX wrote:Joubert. 5 posts this entire game. He feels like he makes the half-cases and sees if anyone else is going to run with them. Also his "I suspect I'll be thought of as scummy for my little amount of posts" statement REALLY bothers me. Not to mention the position and, honestly, lack of reasoning for his vote on Forbidden.
Anyways, the thory still applies, even to Gimbo. Hammer, and you'll be spotted for the rest of your life. Morals of the story? Don't hammer ever, whatever your situation...and who the hell are u mister? u're pissed cuz i was the hammer vote and fl is town, its not my fault! had she flip scum, you'd be thanking me rite now
Bullshit. This is retrospective self-confirmation. This can be forged anywhere in any circumstance. And the fact that you also confirm this "mention" is more of a oddball, actually...Spyrex wrote:I might have worded that poorly. Not because they didn't vote, but BEFORE then I had suspicions on them all and, oddly enough, none of them also voted. I thought that was interesting enough to warrant mention.
Why do you bring that on the table? It's not laughable, it's just illogic...Firestarter wrote:If your suggesting that Im pissed because YOU hammered before me, then I'd consider that laughable...
Really scummy, but no explanation about it...Knight of Cydonia wrote:For a poorly-reasoned hammer (although others may have done the same, but at least they'd give reasons), and because he's been really scummy after that.
Scummy because of 2-3 lines of text almost unrelated to anything relevant? Whew, you can stretch, but strech evenly...Well Gimbo just went up a few ticks on my scum radar. Question to people who played with him before: Is he normally such a joker? Seems scummy to me.
What am I sticking to? Pick your poison:Correction: YOUR statement really bothers ME. Because as I can see, you will stick to it. Gimme Hell, boy... Come on...
I'm not sure what i've done that sticks in your craw, but thats fine. I did NOT build cases on them because they didn't vote. I thought they were scummy and the fact they also didn't vote was another thing I noticed I felt was commenting about.Bullshit. This is retrospective self-confirmation. This can be forged anywhere in any circumstance. And the fact that you also confirm this "mention" is more of a oddball, actually...
No. Derailing the lynch is a bad idea. That lynch would provide us with information, and with no such thing as a claim to help us decide, that lynch was needed. I was not going to stop that lynch.SpyreX wrote: Like I said then - if you dont like the lynch, say so. Sitting on the sidelines isn't going to help the town.
And this is what I don't like, and not because it is on me. First of all, I have not been avoiding any questions. Please direct me to any question I have dodged. Secondly, tell me how my posting style has changed? At best it's slightly more aggressive, but I am still pretty calm. Also, since when is wall of texting a scum tell?Knight wrote:So, I will Vote: FaerieLord for schizophrenia, wall-of-texting to try and avoid questions, and the way his calm demeanour has completely cracked under any kind of pressure.
This is where we disagree. I like those points because it shows what Llama is thinking. Opinions will come out eventually.Manito wrote:I hate these types of PBPA - there's so little analysis, and so much recap. I hate reading these extraordinarily long posts that basically condense 16 pages I've already READ into a string of one liners. Only a few of your notes actually have your ideas or opinions, the rest is really just a condensed retelling of what we already know.
More substance, more of what you actually see from the posts, and less of what we all see, please...
Furthering the case against forbidden with false information (LAL) while agreeing with all other points by armixManito - 142 wrote:
I'm with Armlx on this one, and to quote the old addage - LAL.
Pulling something like this as a supposed "town" aligned player is bad juju...you don't lie, that is part of what defines us. Firestarter really nailed it on the head:
More pushing of forbiddan, this time with a vote. Once again though on a point that another player establishedManito wrote: Spyrex, you hit the nail on the head on that note - no one who is town would imply the possibility that they are scum.
This sounds like a passive defense of forbiddan, who you are voting at this point. By throwing out the possibility that the plan worked, that would also imply that forbiddan is town, which your vote does not reflect.Manito - 243 wrote: (1) was it successful in revealing mafia?
and
(2) whether was it a (a)scum tactic to throw suspicion off a partner, or a (b)town tactic to incite action from scum - was the action itself too questionable in execution to exclude part (a)?
This gets good, this post alone merits a few votes. Now, of COURSE you arent going to just spam to post or anything like that, however you are not playing like town. You seem to be very happy with your vote on forbiddan. So what? The lack of a push from you to actually get forbiddan lynched, especially with the town flip on her, makes me think that you intentionally refused to push the case and become a major part of her lynch in fear of being called on it subsequent days.Manito - 285 wrote: You guys get all in a huff about "Manito just agrees with everyone" and "Manito doesn't post enough" - why would I post a bunch of inane garbage and rhetoric when I've already voted for the person I currently believe is the scummiest. I'd be more concerned with the fence-riders and the people who have no opinion, personally...
Again, there is a difference between posting for the sake of posting, and pushing a case on scum. You choose to do neither and just sit there complaining that we want you to post more and get some origional ideas.Manito - 292 wrote:My statement was that the discussion had come to a standstill, which is exactly what forbiddan stated, and couldn't have put it better: If she dies, she dies, if she doesn't, who does? Because frankly no one else is discussing any other options. I stated that I don't like to sit around and post just for the sake of posting, especially after having voted. My vote is in, and I have explained exactly why I voted.
Passive defense? How is fact hunting a passive defense...?This sounds like a passive defense of forbiddan, who you are voting at this point. By throwing out the possibility that the plan worked, that would also imply that forbiddan is town, which your vote does not reflect.
The entire forbiddan fiasco was a tough call, because there was so much discussion on both sides. In the end, I didn't feel that forbiddan's defense was anything more than OMGUS, which was not enough to convince me to retract my vote.seems like manito is asking someone to provide an alternative to forbiddan. Using phrases like "logical defense" "my vote stands for now and "im not convinced of innocence" both imply thoughts of forbiddan being town, since she is using good defense and the way convinced of innocence was used, it sounded like "but I can be" should of been added on. 'for now' obviously implies ability to be swayed easily
"I'm not playing like town" - in whose eyes? Since you're a replacement, I'll cut you some slack, but let's not forget that technically speaking, you're the one who hammered when there was still a lot of discussion going on. That wasn't a particularly town move. I didn't push for her lynch because that isn't what I typically do, if you read over my other posts. I prefer to post the facts as I see them, and let people make up their own minds, rather than trying to be forceful and coercive...This gets good, this post alone merits a few votes. Now, of COURSE you arent going to just spam to post or anything like that, however you are not playing like town. You seem to be very happy with your vote on forbiddan. So what? The lack of a push from you to actually get forbiddan lynched, especially with the town flip on her, makes me think that you intentionally refused to push the case and become a major part of her lynch in fear of being called on it subsequent days.
Someone please explain how that wasn't LAL - forbiddan lied to all of us about why she self-voted and made herself look all scummy, and then all of the sudden flipped around and basically said "hey, just kidding guys, I was trying to bait scum" - please, someone explain how doing that ISN'T a lie. You can't! A lie is a lie now matter how much you try to cover it up. LAL totally applies to that situation.Furthering the case against forbidden with false information (LAL) while agreeing with all other points by armix
Suspicion? You call counting my posts being suspicious of me? My "playstyle" picked up because FL's playstyle changed drastically, and actually gave me a reason to post. Up to that point, it was largely watching a boring battle of FS and forbiddan yelling and namecalling back and forth. No logic, nothing but a bunch of OMGUS back and forth...Furthermore, somthing interesting about your playstyle is, it picked up the moment you came under suspicion from FL.
As any good Mafia player knows, there's a difference between posting a response, and actually answering points levied at you. Looking back, almost all of you replies to Manito's queries have been "I already answered this", and then a really hasty-looking line summarising, which often doesn't properly answer the question. You then got annoyed when people continued to ask those questions.And this is what I don't like, and not because it is on me. First of all, I have not been avoiding any questions. Please direct me to any question I have dodged. Secondly, tell me how my posting style has changed? At best it's slightly more aggressive, but I am still pretty calm. Also, since when is wall of texting a scum tell?
I said I was going to put K7 aside for a moment - there's not much point in questioning someone who's lurking until they begin to make a commitment to the game.(368) KOC votes FL, I dont like how he dismisses K7 due to inactivity though. Lurking does not change alignment.
It's really not that hard to make a half into a whole. Key 1 is actually placing a vote, explaining why. The other part of it would be taking more than one thing and putting it together cohesively to support your vote.SpyreX, you said I made half-cases. Do you have any advice as to how I could transform them into whole-cases? I mean, if there's not enough material to work with, it's hard to come to clear hypothesis, let alone clear conclusions...
Just BEG for someone else to take up your comment and make a case on it. That doesn't do the town any good and, to me, makes you appear really, really scummy.Really scummy, but no explanation about it...
So a bit of siding with K7, previously unmentioned, to put pressure on forbiddan, also previously unmentioned.Corinthian wrote: I can agree with killa's basic idea- it kinda looks like forbid gave up and self-voted cause she was feeling attacked. But voting someone you think is a townie to see if she "really wants to play this game" is a stupid plan.
I cant really get the just of this. It seems to take a great stance where it can be interpreted to whatever is needed, making it a noncommital quote towards both forbiddan and K7, who at this point were becoming the people that had a high lynch chance.Corinthian wrote:Am I missing something?
Forbiddan claims to have been acting out a clever plan, right? A trap into which K7 fell?
What exactly was this brilliant plan, anyway? Look scummy and self-vote to see who else joins the wagon? How is that a trap for scum?
If one intentionally tries to be scummy to get votes, all that proves is that people will vote for players who act like scum.
I dont like this post. It sounds like in this post, he is starting to give forbiddan=town some credibility as FS is "twisting her words"Corinthian wrote:Agree with forbid on the last two posts.
She's right, I've sniped her arguments, but she repeatedly called me probable town.
starting to think there is something to her repeated accusations that firestarter is twisting her words.
Also, she's right that most of what people are talking about right now is her case and whether or not it's scummy.
Doesn't make her town, but does make it look like firestarter might be trying hard to distance himself.
I dont see you trying to either pull a wagon off forbiddan or push it to lynch. You just are sitting there acting conflicted. FL is at least trying to do something.Corinthian wrote: small FoS to Faerie Lord for saying he doesn't want to discuss other people until we resolve the forbid issue.
ugly post. Town should not be trying to make it player vs player, or even promoting that possibility. In this post, you also manage to not really back anyone up while pointing out an argument. From previous posts you have a small FoS on FL, for wanting to concentrate on forbiddan (your vote) and a playstyle thing (go meta). I dont see any mention of manito from you up untill this point eitherCorinthian wrote: So now we've got manito vs. FaerieLord
well, we know which side KC is on.
what the hell, why not ask forbid and fire what they think about this discussion?
Finally we have his last post, he hasnt said anything D1.5 yet. In this he trys to make forbiddan a WIFOM arguement, while not taking a definate stance on it for it meaning town or scum. After that though, you go as far to try and throw some dirt on K7, who has got quiet. It had been about a week since you even mentioned him at this point, and close to a lynch mudslinging looks bad.Corinthian wrote:Are we going to have the "would a townie self-hammer?" debate now? I've seen it argued both ways: only scum would suggest self-hammering/ scum would never suggest it.
It is a little odd that K7 decided to leave off contributing, considering he's a main player in the forbid discussion.
Nice tunnel vision to enter the game with. While having a clear suspect is never a bad thing, we now have no idea of your inital thoughts on most players, on most arguments and ideas, on other wagons. We just know you want forbiddan dead. The way this is said also implies a later return to look at other players, which never did happen. D1 you spent just about the whole time pushing for a fobiddan lynch.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Wow. well, this was going to be a full LoS, but I'd actually like to have a focused look at forbiddan light.
Knight of Cydonia wrote:I honestly think if the town doesn't lynch forbidden after quite possibly the scummiest first day I ever did see, we're screwed. Anyone who acts this scummy as town is a hindrance, and anyone who acts so blatantly obvious as scum is a gift.
And like my mum says, never refuse a gift. Because you can always get store credit.
Now, I have to side with what forbiddan said here. These two quotes to me basically boil down to the following statement -Knight of Cydonia wrote:Quite frankly, m'dear, if you are town, I'd be almost as happy to see you go. You're doing nothing by playing this way other than helping the Mafia.anyone who acts this way as town is a hindrance
First of all IKnight of Cydonia wrote:It certainly looks like a initial strategy that went wrong, to me. I think fl is almost certainly (99.9999% sure) scum, and if so, I'd suggest having a big look at killa's reaction in 1.5. They've both played a lot of WIFOM throughout the day, so I'd say they look a lot like a pair trying to play a strategy. Killa, I'm less certain of than fl, but only because he's been a bit quiet - I'm actually leaning town with him, if only because I think he realised that his trying to draw aggro players out isn't necessarily going to draw out the family. I think it's most likely that if fl is scum(and I'm sure she is), so is he, though.
Tunnel vision and personal attacks... words exchanged that make both players look a little assyKnight of Cydonia wrote:Yeah, look, fl, we all know you're scum, or the most retarded townie ever, so stop trying to throw crap out there to try and get a townie lynch day 1.5.
Defends people who werent voting (good) and then FoSs K7 for lurking (not as good) it would be nice to see a case to back this up a bitKnight of Cydonia wrote:I don't think it's as black and white as that, SpyreX. Looking at it as "You didn't vote because you wanted to avoid people looking at you!" can go on into a WIFOM chain long enough to tow the Earth back form the Medusa Cascade. If fl had been playing normally as opposed to a crap, one-dimensional complete-lack-of-defence, then we could look at the votes to see what's what. As it is, she probably fooled as many townies as she made goons happy. For now, based on yesterday, I will FoS Killa7, simply because he quite happily went completely AWOL while forbiddan dug herself a deeper and deeper hole, turning up only when it was a near certainty she would be lynched.
Finally a bit of a case with a vote. I may not agree with a FL scum read, but its something. Again though it really isnt a novel idea though. Out of his three suspects, gimbo got replaced which alleviated suspicion there, and K7 really wasnt moving towards a lynch. It seems as if he took the safest vote and parroted the reasons for it here.Knight of Cydonia wrote:That said, your... somewhat belligerent offensive has worked. FL has changed completely from Day 1 - if he was town, I'd expect him to have been more consistent in voting style, instead of jumping in feet-first, a complete change from "I vote rarely." So, I willVote: FaerieLordfor schizophrenia, wall-of-texting to try and avoid questions, and the way his calm demeanour has completely cracked under any kind of pressure.
This again bugs me a little. If you have a scum read on K7, which given forbiddan flipping town I am a little surprised at, you should follow up your lead. You can ask questions to lurkers, vote lurkers and ask the mod to prod lurkers.Knight of Cydonia wrote:I said I was going to put K7 aside for a moment - there's not much point in questioning someone who's lurking until they begin to make a commitment to the game.
Speaking of which, K7 has only posted about 5 posts that are more than a sentence long, and they seem to be perfectly placed just as people start thinking
about a prod. Lurking in open sight anyone?
Aaaaahhh, okay, that's not what it meant. I should have used quotes somewhere. Let me correct:Just BEG for someone else to take up your comment and make a case on it. That doesn't do the town any good and, to me, makes you appear really, really scummy.
"Really scummy" (like, quoting the last words of the quote above), but no explanation about it. In other words, I was reprehending KoC for his affirmation of "really scummy" out of the blue...Knight of Cydonia wrote: For a poorly-reasoned hammer (although others may have done the same, but at least they'd give reasons), and because he's been really scummy after that.
Hahaha. Gotta love those double negatives. Please excuse the bad grammar. I was trying to say that I do not believe killa 7 was deliberately set up to be a topic of the day by the mafia (implying that he's town and thus a patsy).LaptopGun wrote: I'm gonna stipulate that I do not believe that, unlike what Llama thinks, Killa 7 was not groomed to be the topic of the day by one of the other suspects.