Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[alimdia]

Im uneasy about meanlque.

Why? You joined the wagon?

Thats all for tonight, had to catch up all my games, I will investigate the rapid Amrun wagon and its equally rapid collapse, along with the people in the wagon.

In the meantime, this is reminding me of another game where nobody ever follows my pushes.

UNVOTE:

[alimdia]

yeet pagetop

[alimdia]

@Salamence20, your post was too long to quote. I don't use meta, but the only game I have with mena is still ongoing.


@Dogwatch, did you see my last q at you? SS replied (abliet terribly), pls reply too

@SOmething_Smart, any reason why you didn't RVS? Just curious.

Also, I just looked through all your posts again. You post very neutral, answer and ask a bunch of questions but haven't drawn any conclusions from them.
You have too many posts for me to link all of them, but I encourage everyone to ISO SOmething_Smart up to Post 310.

I think thats a very strong scumtell.

YOu have lots of posts, made lots of neutral statements or fluff, but haven't had any conclusions.

VOTE: SOmething_Smart

DogWatch also has the same issue, but less obvious because they have less posts!

This prob isnt gonna go anywhere anymore but I don't think you've answered that yet Dogwatch?

[Something_Smart]

Actually no, most other people we lynch we'll get more info than you. THe way you're playing is very scummy.

Hey, I can make random statements without backing them up too, but that doesn't help anybody.

Of course, I see the hypocrisy here because I just gave my Amrun comment with no explanation, but I posted that in a spare moment during a busy night.

Essentially I think that Amrun's criticism of Aaron was both reasonable and consistent with aggressive town looking for someone to put pressure on. I don't think that scum would really be searching for a mislynch target already, and certainly in my experience people who start a new wagon early on in this way are not scum more often than random.

And in addition to all this, the actual reasons people gave for joining the wagon mostly amounted to "why not." That reasoning might hold when we're 12 hours from deadline and struggling to build consensus, but it is pretty weak at this moment.

[DogWatch]

@alimdia, I missed it but I also don’t think it was ever relevant. You accused SS of posting neutral fluff but I don’t think my posts compare. Low output yes but I haven’t been neutral. I don’t scumread SS at all fwiw.

My unease about menal isn’t strong but it’s there, like I’m a little skittish about how widely townread he is over something that I found NAI and I think it’s been easy for him to coast on it. I joined his wagon but I don’t like it in retrospect. It does feel like a scum-driven wagon unlike the GL wagon.

I’m much happier here. VOTE: GL

I’m also remaining pretty adamant that this is Creature’s scum game, maybe I’m using old meta but I just disagree with amrun and texcat on him looking town.

[DogWatch]

Tbh I haven’t explored the alim/SS stuff as closely as I should have so I’m going to be ISOing you both today.

No idea what to think of Sal or Datisi at this point. I’m having a rough time finding my footing with some of the players here. I forgot DDL was even in the game.

[Something_Smart]

Tbh I haven’t explored the alim/SS stuff as closely as I should have so I’m going to be ISOing you both today.

I mean I can sum it up. Alim is narrow-minded and has decided that since he doesn't like how I play, I must be scummy, even though he can't give any reason why I'm more likely to play this way as scum than as town (and indeed doesn't even understand what I'm asking when I ask for this), and literally everyone who's played with me before can confirm that the way I am playing is indicative only of my personality.

[Salamence20]

@alimdia, I missed it but I also don’t think it was ever relevant. You accused SS of posting neutral fluff but I don’t think my posts compare. Low output yes but I haven’t been neutral. I don’t scumread SS at all fwiw.

My unease about menal isn’t strong but it’s there, like I’m a little skittish about how widely townread he is over something that I found NAI and I think it’s been easy for him to coast on it. I joined his wagon but I don’t like it in retrospect. It does feel like a scum-driven wagon unlike the GL wagon.

I’m much happier here. VOTE: GL

I’m also remaining pretty adamant that this is Creature’s scum game, maybe I’m using old meta but I just disagree with amrun and texcat on him looking town.

This is so terrible if you have a N1 gun please end this.

[Something_Smart]

I mean almost half the game has made votes of that quality or worse.

[Salamence20]

I mean almost half the game has made votes of that quality or worse.

Thoughts on Gl?

[Something_Smart]

I, uh, have an abysmal track record at reading GL and I'm pretty sure it's worse than random.

[Something_Smart]

He's been very proactive with his votes and was pretty much the one who kick-started us getting out of RVS. And his Amrun vote while sheepy was based on a large mass of townreads which I think is reasonable.

So I wouldn't exactly say I townread him, that's asking for disaster given our history, but I definitely see how his posts could be coming from a town mindset.

[Something_Smart]

Also what exactly is wrong with 604? I read it again and it seems pretty reasonable to me (aside from the unexplained vote which is pretty much par for the course this game).

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

Don't really want to do Amrun anymore. I think this is a better vote for today.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

His hop on the Amrun wagon was gross and I agree lack of a counterwagon is unsettling.

hmmm

[DrDolittle]

If it's worse than random you should just inverse your reads SS

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: texcat
After meh scrolling through some iso

[Something_Smart]

If it's worse than random you should just inverse your reads SS

I mean, if that trend is accurate (and it's only a handful of games so I wouldn't say it is necessarily), that would just be adopting a different method of reading him, and wouldn't actually fix the problem. Paradoxically that would mean that no matter which conclusion I came to, it would be likely wrong.

I guess this paradox shows how weird it would be for someone's read to actually be worse that random. It's likely it simply is close to random.

[Menalque]

Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.

Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.

Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?

If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.

@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?

I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.

UNVOTE: amrun

Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.

@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.

I mean I'm widely TR bc I think I'm objectively the towniest slot in the game rn

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

I don't think I am still "so adamant" about it and idk why you're characterising it like that when I've actively said that I'm bothered by the wagon speed, I just don't think that amrun is necessarily towny for having played townier since getting wagoned

plus my initial progression on amrun is p clear if you actually read my ISO

I think my initial concerns over her alim vote and her Pret interactions were bad, but tbh Aaron looks scummier now and that's prob +townpoints for amrun

[Menalque]

VOTE: gl because everyone else is too

hmmmm

[Something_Smart]

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

Would it count if I'm townreading you for your insistence that the supposed townslip wasn't towny?

Purely hypothetical question, of course.

[Menalque]

I think at this point I'm more confident on this

VOTE: ddl

[Menalque]

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

Would it count if I'm townreading you for your insistence that the supposed townslip wasn't towny?

Purely hypothetical question, of course.

stahp

[DogWatch]

How is Aaron scummier now? What?

[DogWatch]

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

Would it count if I'm townreading you for your insistence that the supposed townslip wasn't towny?

Purely hypothetical question, of course.

Also hypothetical but wouldn’t that be a really easy way for scum to get town points?

[DogWatch]

Which is again why that whole thing is NAI.