Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[GuiltyLion]

amrun [4] - Datisi, Iconeum, GuiltyLion, Creature

I'm pretty sure this is all town and still a good wagon btw

the people I'm not townreading are texcat, alimdia, Amrun, Pretentious, mayyyybe Smart after he seemed reluctant to townread or defend me once my wagon got serious, but ehh that's not a particularly strong sign either way.

[DrDolittle]

Wanna do texcat w me?

[DrDolittle]

I could do amrun for some broad boppy reasons

[GuiltyLion]

Wanna do texcat w me?

I could do texcat too but why should I switch from a 4 vote wagon to a 2 vote one?

[DrDolittle]

Becuz your 4 vote wagon is stagnant

[GuiltyLion]

ehhh I think I'm still hoping Sala/Menalque will come back around and perhaps we can get Smart or Pretentious to join

but if more people wanna switch to texcat I'm absolutely game, let that be known

[Amrun]

@GuiltyLion: what is the harm of a “vanity” wagon at this stage of day 1?

[GuiltyLion]

if we don't get any major serious wagons, then people aren't forced to give real opinions on anything. Amrun at L-2 or L-1 is important, it is something that every player needs to react to and puts scum in a more difficult position regardless of your alignment.

Five different wagons at L-6 or L-7 or whatever isn't a difficult game state for scum. They can just park a vote on convenient scumread of choice and then compromise Lynch to whatever's easiest once everyone starts panicking about deadline

[GuiltyLion]

like in my mind it would have been far more scum-serving for me to randomly vote Alimdia instead of joining a promising Amrun wagon, even if you are town. It's actually pretty much why I'm scum reading Alimdia in fact, they spend more of their time riffing on S_S (a completely non-existent wagon) than posting anything relevant to the likely lynchs and flips at hand

[Amrun]

I disagree. I think stirring up as much shit as possible with enough people as possible is a better bet on day 1. Day 1 is the time to push your scumread and not be concerned as much with gamestate, which can change in a flash.

[GuiltyLion]

I still tried to "stir up shit" (as it were) with alimdia despite not voting there. However putting votes on a leading wagon is more direct in forcing

other people

to get involved in the shit. I can push alimdia however much I want but people can ignore me, especially if most other players are looking elsewhere, they can't so easily ignore my vote on a leading wagon that's growing quickly.

and it's not like you also aren't a scumread as well. I just didn't write up a whole bunch of stuff on it because I felt other people already touched on the things that were motivating my vote.

[GuiltyLion]

Also, if your policy is to always push your number one scumread, then I want to ask why do you think I am the

most

likely scum out of other players people are talking about as scum candidates (alimdia, texcat, Doolittle - though I think he's town -, etc), and other players who aren't giving as much engagement as I have. Is it just because I voted you? Do you think scum are more likely to vote you in the way that I did than to not vote you?

[Amrun]

The reasons given thus far for voting me are all hot garbage. Even Menalque now thinks her original reasons to vote me were bad. So therefore, I do think the particular way, and time, in which you voted me was much more likely to come from scum. It’s right in the sweet spot of the wagon I’d expect scum to hop on in a non transparent way.

It’s not because you voted me; I am townreading some of my wagon, after all. It’s the manner in which you did so.

And it’s NOT my policy to push my number one scumread. It entirely depends on gamestate. In this gamestate, your vote did not a single thing to advance the game. It didn’t make me feel more pressured. It didn’t make alimdah feel more pressured. It’s dead weight. It’s noise. That’s where scum love to hang out.

[GuiltyLion]

It clearly did make you feel more pressured given your reaction to it, lol

[GuiltyLion]

Maybe so. Maybe I'm reading too much into "can you provide examples" vs "can you actually provide any examples".

Hm. I was a bit weirded out by 470 because the last part read almost tmi-y wrt my alignment, because I don't think I've been extremely Towny this game, especially from your pov since I've just sheeped another player onto you with a very boring case.

I also think this was still an extremely good point, wouldn't call this "hot garbage" at all

[GuiltyLion]

I'd also say that giving scum an excuse to vote me as a viable counter wagon (regardless of whether you are town or not) did a lot for the game even if I'm flipped for it, this whole sequence of pages from 22-29 or whatever will be very informative in a few days

[GuiltyLion]

you also didn't really answer my question. I don't want why you think I could be scum, I want why you think I'm

more

likely scum than the non-entities or the people avoiding commenting on your wagon in any way whatsoever. I completely disagree that my vote did not advance the game and therefore I think your point about "dead weight" zone of my vote is kinda just sophist bs

[Amrun]

Maybe so. Maybe I'm reading too much into "can you provide examples" vs "can you actually provide any examples".

Hm. I was a bit weirded out by 470 because the last part read almost tmi-y wrt my alignment, because I don't think I've been extremely Towny this game, especially from your pov since I've just sheeped another player onto you with a very boring case.

I also think this was still an extremely good point, wouldn't call this "hot garbage" at all

Actually that one is ok. It’s wrong, but, ok.

I don’t know what gave you the impression your vote made me feel more pressured though. Because I voted you?

I'd also say that giving scum an excuse to vote me as a viable counter wagon (regardless of whether you are town or not) did a lot for the game even if I'm flipped for it, this whole sequence of pages from 22-29 or whatever will be very informative in a few days

That’s entirely my point. You could have potentially started an alimdah counterwagon that would have been just as informative, regardless of who flipped. You chose not to even try with the flimsy excuse you would have been ignored. WHY would you have been ignored?

My vote on you wasn’t ignored. Am I a better player than you? No. And I’m the top wagon. Usually the person that starts that counterwagon doesn’t take off. But I’m not not going to TRY.

[Amrun]

you also didn't really answer my question. I don't want why you think I could be scum, I want why you think I'm

more

likely scum than the non-entities or the people avoiding commenting on your wagon in any way whatsoever. I completely disagree that my vote did not advance the game and therefore I think your point about "dead weight" zone of my vote is kinda just sophist bs

I think there’s scum off the wagon too. At least one, probably two.

Right at this second my top pick for that would be creature and/or alimdah.

[GuiltyLion]

I don’t know what gave you the impression your vote made me feel more pressured though. Because I voted you?

I mean you clearly reacted to the wagon gaining strength on you, your activity increased and you started arguing with all the posts and votes coming your way. If you're really aiming to suggest you don't feel any pressure being the first to get 6 or 7 votes this game I think that's disingenuous.

That’s entirely my point. You could have potentially started an alimdah counterwagon that would have been just as informative, regardless of who flipped. You chose not to even try with the flimsy excuse you would have been ignored. WHY would you have been ignored?

I didn't

want

to start an alimdia counter wagon though, because I thought your wagon was good! I just wanted to call out a scumread that I thought nobody had also picked up on yet.

I mean I guess maybe I wouldn't have been ignored but I would have (rightly) been seen as distracting from the Amrun wagon by the people interested in that at the time. And given that literally no one else IIRC was scumreading alimdia to the extent that I was, I felt it wasn't likely to get traction unless I tried RC-style to forcefully hijack the game to force it, and I just didn't wanna do that. rather sheep.

[Menalque]

@menal: what’s your take on GL right now?

I can't really separate this from his posts over the last page and a half since you asked me this but I think he's p towny tbh

[Menalque]

The reasons given thus far for voting me are all hot garbage.

Even Menalque now thinks her original reasons to vote me were bad.

So therefore, I do think the particular way, and time, in which you voted me was much more likely to come from scum. It’s right in the sweet spot of the wagon I’d expect scum to hop on in a non transparent way.

It’s not because you voted me; I am townreading some of my wagon, after all. It’s the manner in which you did so.

And it’s NOT my policy to push my number one scumread. It entirely depends on gamestate. In this gamestate, your vote did not a single thing to advance the game. It didn’t make me feel more pressured. It didn’t make alimdah feel more pressured. It’s dead weight. It’s noise. That’s where scum love to hang out.

to be clear: I think my reason re: aaronfrost was bad

I think my other two reasons were solid

my reconsideration on you is much more based around gamestate and your recent posting, my original reasons are the biggest things giving me pause on actually TLing you

[Menalque]

it is also pinging me in a bad way that amrun wagon jumped up to like 5 votes within like 5 minutes of me starting it whereas I've been suggesting ddl is scum for like a day and yet there's no play on that wagon whatsoever, despite multiple people saying that they'd compromise there or expressing doubts around his slot

[Something_Smart]

what games have there been where you've townread me when I was scum? From my recollection you just pretty much always scumread me and then are wrong most of the time because I'm town most of the time

I think I townread you for most of the game in Team Mafia, though I might be mistaken.

I guess maybe more generally my pattern of reading you is often roughly "townread -> paranoia -> scumread" regardless of your alignment.

[Something_Smart]

It's actually pretty much why I'm scum reading Alimdia in fact, they spend more of their time riffing on S_S (a completely non-existent wagon) than posting anything relevant to the likely lynchs and flips at hand

I don't really think this is a scumtell in most cases?

Like there is a specific type of player who would take refuge in this kind of single-mindedness as scum, but I think most people wouldn't. Do you know or suspect that alimdia is like that?