The Root of Toxicity in Mafia Games

Firefly7 · Post Post #50 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:43 pm

Does it come more from immaturity than from powerlessness?

Alisae · Post Post #51 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:34 pm

In post 46, SleepyKrew wrote:the toxicity in league and mafia and a whole bunch of other games comes from the players being immature

so being frustrated is immature
Ok dude

SleepyKrew · Post Post #52 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:55 pm

if you're toxic about it, yes

popsofctown · Post Post #53 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:58 pm

Vig is a brilliant antitoxicity role.
A player can become very angry about getting misvigged.

But you've hidden them away in the dead thread, now.

Alisae · Post Post #54 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:29 pm

In post 52, SleepyKrew wrote:if you're toxic about it, yes

I like how you responded to my post but not the post that challenges your thought process.

Ramcius · Post Post #55 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:45 pm

What is considered toxicity? I'm just wondering how much shit I can say, when I'm frustrated and not look immature

Alisae · Post Post #56 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:50 pm

well, apparently, if you even consider or think about talking shit to someone else, you're immature

Ramcius · Post Post #57 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:42 pm

Well, calling other people immature is talking shit too, so we all are toxic, hooray

Alisae · Post Post #58 (ISO) » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:56 pm

wow that comment was really immature of you

Enter · Post Post #59 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:12 am

In post 42, NotAJumbleOfNumbers wrote:
In post 28, Alisae wrote:I am only nice to people

That Calendar Mafia Thread wrote:
In post 2874, TheWizard wrote:That bad decision wouldn't have been made if Alisae and Ank hadn't agreed to end night 6 minutes after it started.

In post 2875, Alisae wrote:shut up

literally no one cares about what you have to say

Alisae was being fascetious.
p sure they're known as one of the most

nvm everyone already knows

Enter · Post Post #60 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:12 am

Enter · Post Post #61 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:13 am

In post 45, Alisae wrote:psst
no one tell him

too late

Enter · Post Post #62 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:13 am

In post 47, RadiantCowbells wrote:disagree

the toxicity in league comes from immaturity certainly given that toxicity actively hinders your ability to win games

the toxicity in mafia is a result of a game where there are advantages to being toxic.

implying there is no immaturity in mafia

Enter · Post Post #63 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:14 am

In post 53, popsofctown wrote:Vig is a brilliant antitoxicity role.
A player can become very angry about getting misvigged.

But you've hidden them away in the dead thread, now.

this sounds like an argument for policy lynches

hello
can i talk to you about one of the best (and most commonly ignored/rejected) aspects of mafia, policy lynches?

popsofctown · Post Post #64 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:22 am

I think WotM and WotC should take the place of policy lynches

Enter · Post Post #65 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:24 am

i think policy lynches will always have their place

i think people reject them in theory but i think a lot of people would like them if they tried just a little bit

popsofctown · Post Post #66 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:40 am

I've seen policy lynches for lurkers, I don't think I've ever seen a policy lynch for a toxic player in all my years.
I can't understand the logic in that. Toxicity doesn't actually hurt town win % that much. If a player is so toxic that you would want to lynch them even if they were Innocent Child, then you should probably ask the mod to force replace them, and if you can't manage that then well like you would have to be force replaced for playing against wincon apparently you want to lynch the IC.

I'm guessing the main point of disagreement is "toxicity doesn't actually hurt town win % that much".
It sucks an egg, but I think it doesn't actually lose the game for town. A highly inactive game is far harder for town to win than a toxic one.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #67 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:49 am

Toxic play in mafia gets reinforced with townreads, sheeping, and removed pressure and that makes the behavior more likely to recur

Toxic play in league is only reinforced internally rather than externally

Enter · Post Post #68 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:51 am

In post 66, popsofctown wrote:I've seen policy lynches for lurkers, I don't think I've ever seen a policy lynch for a toxic player in all my years.
I can't understand the logic in that. Toxicity doesn't actually hurt town win % that much. If a player is so toxic that you would want to lynch them even if they were Innocent Child, then you should probably ask the mod to force replace them, and if you can't manage that then well like you would have to be force replaced for playing against wincon apparently you want to lynch the IC.

I'm guessing the main point of disagreement is "toxicity doesn't actually hurt town win % that much".
It sucks an egg, but I think it doesn't actually lose the game for town. A highly inactive game is far harder for town to win than a toxic one.

that is a point of disagreement

especially because i think a lot of players are intentionally toxic because they know it comes off as towny - and they use that to hide that they're scum

In post 67, RadiantCowbells wrote:Toxic play in mafia gets reinforced with townreads, sheeping, and removed pressure and that makes the behavior more likely to recur

Toxic play in league is only reinforced internally rather than externally

oh i see what you mean yeah

popsofctown · Post Post #69 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:56 am

If you can't convince people to do a normal lynch on a toxic player shouldn't a policy lynch on that player be even harder?

Which is why I'm saying

Just slip a vig in

Vig's the best role in mafia anyway

don't @ me

popsofctown · Post Post #70 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:03 am

I mean maybe do as I do not as I say...
Menalque was almost-force-replace toxic in autumnal mafia and probably if I thought through whether he could afford to do that as scum it'd be town indicative
I kinda deliberately like didn't want to think through that angle and reward that kind of behavior and deliberately tried not to think about it
Ended up mislynching him

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #71 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:24 am

The good thing is that it only works so many times as scum; once you become known for being shitty as scum you stop getting TR for it

It works a lot better if you have a meta of only being toxic as town because then it effectively becomes a trust tell that doesn't violate any rules

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #72 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:30 am

like if you only get riled up enough as town to be really nasty then it clears you and it's not exactly 'trying to maintain a meta' it's just it is what it is and no one is going to encourage you to act awfully as scum in the interest of fairness

I think the rules on toxicity should be a lot tighter than they currently are. I think most toxicity in mafia happens because it gets results and a solid 10-15% of games are won or lost by a race to the bottom with whichever faction is willing to play dirtier taking the win.

Enter · Post Post #73 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:31 am

I at least agree with the dirtier play part of the last comment, probably the rest, too.

Nancy Drew 39 · Post Post #74 (ISO) » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:31 am

In post 71, RadiantCowbells wrote:The good thing is that it only works so many times as scum; once you become known for being shitty as scum you stop getting TR for it

It works a lot better if you have a meta of only being toxic as town because then it effectively becomes a trust tell that doesn't violate any rules

Nah because then you get warned, people hate your guts and want to blacklist you.