Star Wars Discussion Here [SPOILERS]

[Pine]

I thought anakin brought balance when he killed all the jedi.

And then all the Sith, leaving only a half-trained yahoo with delusions of grandeur. He botched the job though, but Rey finished it. Now we're back to one hermit space wizard with enough internal conflict to be called "balanced"

[Nero Cain]

i saw it today and thought it was pretty good. Will read what you guys wrote and see what we can

argue about

discuss

[Nero Cain]

I was not comfortable with how all the black characters ended up on the quests together.

I have like zero issue with this and makes sense from a strategic viewpoint. General Finn used to be a stormtrooper and was a ground-based fighter. Llanna (I think that was her name) and her Endor tribe are horseback riders so it made sense that they would be on the ground team that ends up attacking the star destroyer.

He's going to somehow conjure up and staff a fleet the size of a planet from fucking nowhere.

How many people does it take to run a star destroyer? Palpatine had a cult. I mean maybe when you get into specifics it might not be up to snuff but cult members + cult spends X time building ships makes enough sense that I find it plausible.

[chamber]

I have like zero issue with this and makes sense from a strategic viewpoint. General Finn used to be a stormtrooper and was a ground-based fighter. Llanna (I think that was her name) and her Endor tribe are horseback riders so it made sense that they would be on the ground team that ends up attacking the star destroyer.

There are two things. It makes sense when you only consider in universe details. Someone cast and wrote it though. Those real people decided to make all those people that are going to go on that mission the majority of the black people.

[Nero Cain]

Every time they did something potentially interesting, they immediately reversed it. This movie had no confidence in itself which, given the response to The Last Jedi, is unsurprising but disappointing.

agree

but you know they didn't kill chewie just so he could get a medal @ the end.

Rey accidentally shooting lightning was so fucking cool
could possibly be my favorite star wars moment if they didn't erase the impact of it

agree

oh I agree the plotline of Finn and Rey's unrequitted love seemed to come out of nowhere and went nowhere.

They've been hinting this since TFA. Is it disappointing that it wasn't resolved? Not to me, But the idea the Disney stops milking its cash cow is insane (to me at least). I'm sure a book seriers is on the way.

[Nero Cain]

First a correction on my part, the characters name was Jannah.

I have like zero issue with this and makes sense from a strategic viewpoint. General Finn used to be a stormtrooper and was a ground-based fighter. Llanna (I think that was her name) and her Endor tribe are horseback riders so it made sense that they would be on the ground team that ends up attacking the star destroyer.

There are two things. It makes sense when you only consider in universe details. Somewhat cast and wrote it though. Those real people decided to make all those people that are going to go on that mission the majority of the black people.

Are you saying that Disney should have cast a white character just both characters wouldn't be black? What if Naomi Ackie just ended up winning the role, should they have not cast her b/c of the color of her skin?

[chamber]

To me it feels like they intentionally created a black love interest for the black character and intentionally stuck them on a side mission together. Its not only the casting I'm objecting to. Finn was already part of 2 love pairs, FinnXRay which got minor lip service in the form of him almost admitting it to her when he was about to die, and FinnXRose which was completely sidelined(some might even argue a third subtextual one in FinnXPoe). In a movie moving this fast I have no other explanation for creating a new character.

[Nero Cain]

Well, it wasn't really a side mission. Basically, that last fight was a carbon copy of the final battle from RotJ (well - those reinforcements showing up) and that star destroyer was the Endor shield. That battle was more than likely planned from the start and I feel like I can see where they were going with this (hey they are using horsetype animals to attack a star destroyer. How cool of a twist is that?!?) Whether you like it or not is irrelevant but I think that's what they were going for. So I think that's why that character exists, to introduce these horseback riders and I guess you and Zor were just going to be disappointed regardless b/c if they cast a white actress just for the sake of not having two black characters lead the charge then they aren't being inclusive and if they cast a black actress then she's a token character, I guess.

[Nero Cain]

Presuming that Palpatine had a naturally birthed child before he electrocuted himself while battling Windu,

Why does he have to have birthed a child before he was electrocuted? I guess you are going with him being sterile AE. People are electrocuted all the time, do they auto go sterile? But Palpatine fathering a child @ X point in time and then that spawn spawning Rey makes enough sense for me. *shrugz* Also men can have children p late in life. Most famously, Charlie Chaplin had his last child at the ripe young age of 73.

Narratively this comes out of nowhere just because people apparently can't handle a strong character that doesn't come from original trilogy lineage.

I don't think this is unique to Star Wars. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head but I feel like I've seen/read similar type of plot devices. I'm also gonna agree here with whoever said that the authors meant it as shock value.

[chamber]

How cool of a twist is that?!?

That 'twist' that was setup and paid off within seconds of each other.

[Nero Cain]

or w/e you want to call it. But yeah, I think the writers were like "oh hey let's have horseback riders attack a star destroyer." That's why I think that character exists and just b/c she and Finn are both former first order troopers doesn't necessarily mean she has to be a love interest. Though I could certainly see how it could be spun as one.

[panthaleon]

Yeah you can't really talk about race in media just as like a neutral trait. These were characters who were written by writers who wrote Finn away from Rey and towards random new black character. Like this is kinda a real and valid critique.

[Firebringer]

Y’all they were setting up Reylo since the beginning, you can clearly see Adam Driver portraying his love and obsession for Rey.

I think we have very different definitions of "love" when you say Force Awakens Kylo was foreshadowing a relationship with Rey.

[panthaleon]

Also just because trope knowledge tells us that the sadboi will get the girl at the last minute doesn't mean it's a good storytelling beat

[Firebringer]

Also just because trope knowledge tells us that the sadboi will get the girl at the last minute doesn't mean it's a good storytelling beat

I mean they have to actually do the ground work for a romance arc for it to be good storytelling.

[Pine]

I was not comfortable with how all the black characters ended up on the quests together.

I have like zero issue with this and makes sense from a strategic viewpoint. General Finn used to be a stormtrooper and was a ground-based fighter. Llanna (I think that was her name) and her Endor tribe are horseback riders so it made sense that they would be on the ground team that ends up attacking the star destroyer.

He's going to somehow conjure up and staff a fleet the size of a planet from fucking nowhere.

How many people does it take to run a star destroyer? Palpatine had a cult. I mean maybe when you get into specifics it might not be up to snuff but cult members + cult spends X time building ships makes enough sense that I find it plausible.

They also mentioned several times how the First Order had been disappearing young people for years and brain-conditioning them. Snoke could very easily have been funneling many of them to Palpatine. Yes, it was a mistake not to have the liberated stormtroopers drop a one-liner to that effect, but it's implied.

Regarding romance...I absolutely hated the way this trilogy handled it. The Finn-Rey tension dissipated into friendship without being addressed (an awkward kiss where they decide to be friends would have been just fine), the never-mentioned-again Finn-Rose Tico kiss, the tension between Finn and Poe that goes nowhere, the Finn-Jannah tension that goes nowhere, and most of all the kiss between Reylo. That moment would have been just as intimate with them embracing, touching foreheads, and THEN he disappears into the Force. Don't get your unnecessary romance in my space fantasy - Han and Leia this ain't. The only romantic scenes that actually worked in the whole trilogy were between Han and Leia, an established couple with thirty years of history they manage to cram into a few sentences and expressive looks, and between Poe and old flame Zorii. THAT worked for me, primarily because both parties were mature about it. "Hey you want to?" "Nope, too much history." "Okay, I respect that." - Delivered

wordlessly.

[xRECKONERx]

Poe/Finn was setup so well nonverbally (thanks to Oscar Isaac's performance)

[panthaleon]

No Reck how could you not love the random no homo love interests??

[xRECKONERx]

https://youtu.be/GErIPKjwuDg

[Pine]

https://youtu.be/GErIPKjwuDg

I had a really hard time watching most of that, and ended up skipping around a lot. I found a lot of her points trite and superficial. She wanted to be disappointed and was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[panthaleon]

She explicitly said that she wanted nothing more than to like this movie

[xRECKONERx]

https://youtu.be/GErIPKjwuDg

I had a really hard time watching most of that, and ended up skipping around a lot. I found a lot of her points trite and superficial. She wanted to be disappointed and was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

the funny thing is most of her points weren't even in my orbit for why i disliked the movie but thinking back, yeah, that shit bothered me too

[panthaleon]

I feel like you will find a lot of the folks who are disappointed by Rise of Skywalker will tell you that they went into it sincerely excited to see how the trilogy ended. For a lot of them, because they really liked The Last Jedi.

Like you can enjoy whatever movie you want, but it seems kinda fucked to just round up valid complaints about thematic incoherence, bizarre pacing, and any other nonsense as 'well they must have just gone in wanting to find a reason to dislike it.'

Idk genuinely the only stances I've heard for liking RoS are "I wanted a conclusion and I got one" and "it fixed what The Last Jedi ruined"

[Pine]

She explicitly said that she wanted nothing more than to like this movie

No no. No. She wanted the movie she made in her head - it wasn't, so she decided she was disappointed. She didn't judge it on its own merits, but her preconceived notions. I was

disappointed

that Disney/Lucasfilm didn't suddenly grow balls and make Poe/Finn a thing, but that superficial (okay, more than superficial) disappointment did not taint my enjoyment of the movie. Their decision to go the other direction and fabricate "see we're straight right" partners for those two

did.

For example, she takes issue with the fact that Kylo Ren pulls his punches in his last fight with Rey, letting her stab him then heal him. She then goes off to Ahch-To to deal with the horror of how close she came to the Dark Side and is confronted by Luke's Force ghost. She

does not get

why they chose to have her deal with her issues before going off to fight Palpatine for the fate of the galaxy rather than go in emotionally fragile and deal with it in front of the ultimate master manipulator. Dealing with her shit and being able to face Palpatine whole is a huge growth point for Rey, and ultimately shows her newfound emotional maturity and informs the climax - she and Ben are repeatedly presented with choices, and they ultimately choose the light over the dark.

But it wasn't dealt with in high enough drama for her, so she writes off the whole movie as pointless. I'm sure Reck's issue has to do with her petulance and grating presentation, and the contrived way she's trying to present herself as the ultimate fangirl, surrounded by enormous plushy BB-8 and porgs, but her entire thesis smacks of C- freshman film class.

PE: Yeah, there's a lot more nuance to my disdain for the video Reck linked, panthaleon. We can have a conversation about the movie's flaws (and there were many) but she's just ripping the movie to get clicks. Even worse to my pedantic aesthetics, she's doing it badly.

[SleepyKrew]

my main issue with that video is IT'S AN HOUR LONG