Open 770: Fusion Mafia - Game Over!

[Hopkirk]

If you want to lynch now then explain reads on profii and pops pls.

@ank: half of the data is from off-site meta.

[Ankamius]

It also happens to be lazy meta!

[Hopkirk]

It's '0 blame if it goes wrong and no way to argue against it' meta.

[profii]

It's '0 blame if it goes wrong and no way to argue against it' meta.

are you looking to avoid blame?

[Amrun]

ofhrz replaces Saudade, effective immediately.

72 hours will be added to deadline.

[Ankamius]

Hopkirk

With meta like that, it is difficult and takes effort to subvert as scum because activity = effort

When you're town, you literally just need to be too busy or never get properly engaged

This shit literally happens to me every time I don't engage as town and people still can't recognize when I'm just disengaged instead of scum

[Ankamius]

Basically

The case here is flimsy because it can't be properly attributed to what it's being attributed to because how exactly can you tell that them being scum is the reason they're not here?

It is a lot easier to make that case the other way around because really how many other causes ARE there?

[Hectic]

If you want to lynch now then explain reads on profii and pops pls.

@ank: half of the data is from off-site meta.

I don't want to lynch now, I still want to use the time left.
Are you asking me about Pops/Profii? Pops has been towny but she's towny as scum, so I'm consciously lowering my read on her and waiting on more concrete reasons.
Profii was weird with his Dunn stuff early on. His setup spec is useful but NAI. His reads list was fine, and I agreed with most of it, expect for the one on Dunn which I don't really get.

[popsofctown]

That is hurtful towards me

[Hopkirk]

It's '0 blame if it goes wrong and no way to argue against it' meta.

are you looking to avoid blame?

Have you noticed I'm not voting the slot and am debating with people who are?

[Hectic]

The case here is flimsy because it can't be properly attributed to what it's being attributed to because how exactly can you tell that them being scum is the reason they're not here?

Because statistically speaking, she's active when she's town, and not when she's scum.
She has admitted that she heavily prefers town over scum, and actively dislikes playing scum. So it definitely is scum-indicative.

[Ankamius]

So your answer to my rebuttal is to just restate what I rebutted?

[profii]

It's '0 blame if it goes wrong and no way to argue against it' meta.

are you looking to avoid blame?

Have you noticed I'm not voting the slot and am debating with people who are?

No I'm completely lost by all the replaces at the moment I dont know who is who right now

[Ankamius]

I'm Egduf

[Hopkirk]

@Hectic: Have any of the towny things you've seen from Profii been things scum can't or don't do just as easily? Looking for specifics.

[Hectic]

So your answer to my rebuttal is to just restate what I rebutted?

Your rebuttal doesn't make sense. Correlation is a thing.
If your point is that we can't be certain you're scum based off of it, then yes, you're right.
But it's statically more likely.

[Hectic]

so we should keep the heat on saudade to force the issue

Don't really get this though. Keeping the heat on Saudude doesn't force Dun to comment on the wagon. Isn't simply asking Dunnst for his opinion a more practical way of forcing the issue?

Seems like a lousy reason to ask people to keep voting for Saudude, Profii.

You are right, you can just ask

2 further points though

1. When there are lots of posts, sporadic posters, i.e. someone who has only posted once so far tend not to methodically answer all questions asked of them and I am curious
2. Separate bonus of maintaining impetus on wagons means you see who is in favour or against certain players. I'm not going to go as far as saying you don't want to vote Saudade because you just want to follow me but these are the sorts of things we can derive if we keep going
So yes I was trying to keep the Saudade wagon going for not totally clear reasons

I found point 2 from this explanation towny. What scummy things has he done? I could see some things, but want to hear it from you.

[Hectic]

I'm Egduf

That's some nice 8 years of prep and commitment leading up to this moment, Egduf

[Ankamius]

So your answer to my rebuttal is to just restate what I rebutted?

Your rebuttal doesn't make sense. Correlation is a thing.
If your point is that we can't be certain you're scum based off of it, then yes, you're right.
But it's statically more likely.

Considering that my entire point is that you can't really be confident in that conclusion based on how easy it is to subvert and that it's basically impossible to tell the difference, then yeah I'd say my point makes enough sense that you can't just sidestep it

[Hectic]

So your answer to my rebuttal is to just restate what I rebutted?

Your rebuttal doesn't make sense. Correlation is a thing.
If your point is that we can't be certain you're scum based off of it, then yes, you're right.
But it's statically more likely.

Considering that my entire point is that you can't really be confident in that conclusion based on how easy it is to subvert and that it's basically impossible to tell the difference, then yeah I'd say my point makes enough sense that you can't just sidestep it

I understand your point, and I agree it's far more valid to call someone town if they're active and have a history of replacing out as scum, than it is to call someone scum if they're inactive and replace out and have that same history. There's more potential reasons for replacing out of a game than there is staying in one.
However, the primary reason for which Edguf has been inactive in the past, was due to rolling scum and her disliking playing scum. So of all the reasons for her replace out, her rolling scum takes a good chunk of that percentage.

[Ankamius]

Ok

So do you understand why I would find it very interesting that when you are aware of this fact, you still treat it exactly the same as before?

[Hectic]

However, the primary reason for which Edguf has been inactive in the past, was due to rolling scum and her disliking playing scum. So of all the reasons for her replace out, her rolling scum takes a good chunk of that percentage.

^

[Ankamius]

Ok

So do you understand why I would find it very interesting that when you are aware of this fact, you still treat it exactly the same as before?

[Hectic]

Seems like we're at an impasse.

[Ankamius]

No

I'm getting to a much bigger point, namely that you are approaching this entire read and engagement from a mindset that doesn't include actually getting a read on my slot.

Nothing you have said throughout this has shown as such, when I would generally expect town to either try to sort what I'm trying to do, engage me on different terms, or really just show any more genuine thought process than just repeating the same thing over and over again after sidestepping my rebuttals

I have reasons in the first several pages to think you're scum as well but this really isn't helping your case.