TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh I'm missing a quote.
I'm sure people knows what I'm replying to.

[EspressoPatronum]

Catching up on this is gonna be impossible.

I'm here now. Anything current?

[Farkran]

@FL why did you jump from FoS on chenn to a hard attack on someone who voted him?

This is a generic post. I don't see anything of value in it. Although I assume the 'value' you're talking about Fark is the timing.

For someone who reacted really strongly to being voted by FL, I'm surprised that the primary reason for a townread would be someone who naked voted you. Maybe that's an oversimplification, but it's the type of thing that catches my eye. Have you played with Elements as both alignments?

We look at this and basically what Dave is doing is poking holes in their logic. It’s a valid question, but my main question is why does this come from town over scum?

Not immediately taking any hard stance and pointing out fallacies in both premises almost never comes from scum, which imo would basically try to determine who's on the losing wagon and side with the winning part, or completely stay out of it for towncred.

You give this reasoning, but all of this to me is ‘scum is unlikely to do this’ and you give surface-level basic mafia 101 reasoning why. Like, you stated that mafia wouldn’t do this and gave a very basic reason why. If we’re using that for team mafia of all things where I like to assume most of the players have brains then this just doesn’t work for me.

What makes you think my dave read is gut by the way? How did you get that impression?

I'll answer your last line first: after reading your spoiler commentary and followups, i didn't notice any solid ground to call daves your highest scumread. There might be value in your first comment about dave in your spoiler #1 - i overlooked that sentence you bolded, but now that i focused on it i don't find it inherently scummy. Why do you? Rest of the content in the spoilers makes little mention of daves, so i interpreted it as mostly a gut-based read, with elements of personal bias.

As for why i am townreading him instead, why do you find it surface-level and therefore less AI than i think it is? I mean sure, players have brains, they can and must come up with strategies to be townread if they roll scum, but i don't believe what daves did is something that immediately comes up when posting with a scum mindset. At the very least that's not what i would do, and what i have seen from scum in my experience. Questioning people before taking hard stances takes effort by itself, and faking it from a POV where all the players you're talking about are green (because as scum you would know they are) is way above the average scum behavior and will to effort. Scumreading daves for that means entering the world of deepwolves, so my first question is: do you know daves for being a proficient deepwolf? Second question would be: why do you feel fine validating what is bad town play by the manual (the earlier chennis and gammagoey), but punishing what would be good town play (daves)?

I do agree that daves could produce more content though.

pedit: the forum mocks me. "at least one new post has been made while you were typing" = literally more than 20

[GuyInFreezer]

People take my blunt attitude for anger all the time. I'm quite relaxed and perfectly fine. Sipping on a drink with some sweets on the side. It's hard to really make me mad. Apologies if I come off the wrong way.

I'm basically that but more fluffy.

[Volpe14]

I commented about it with pisskop because I needed a reality check on myself since people didn't seem to see lot of what I was see'ing especially with FL and Ank.

I'm sure you can tell I''m not "tunneled" anymore or whatever you wanna call it but in hindsight I think it's oddly very reasonable that Nomnom/FL/Ank has scum.

But like, I'm not in the mood to push through that because in the case it flips town I don't want to hear the backslash so...

[GuyInFreezer]

Anyway I really wanted to take a day off of this game but here I am so I'm gonna leave, play some video games, and sleep early.
So while I'm gone, have a cat video.

[MariaR]

So it's just a rhetoric then.

Also I am massively aware of my teammates, because... I should be? This is Team Mafia. Teammates are part of the mechanics.
It's not a news that even though y'all refuse to accept it RC does have one of the highest win rate in this site and curbstomped scum over and over.
NSG have made superplays as town over and over.
Turns out I too can get decent reads too when I try.
Why shouldn't I be bothered by the jabs?

Sure I could use it as scum. But if I'm scum I'm in a very good position where I'm not being scumread and the only things toward me are few jabs. Why escalate the situation when I can just meme it off? Memeing off requires less effort and draws less aggro.

People are obviously going to talk about RC but the way you could've handled the whole thing better if you were just gonna play as you? Ditch the avis and don't say stuff like 'oh I have RC/NSG on my team we're fine' because then you can just filter reads through them or without them and you would've been put in a much more healthy spot. Now all I feel is I'm waiting for your slot to do shit about that. I don't care for what RC has to say or NSG I care about what you got to say. I don't care if your bothered by the jabs but you don't need to be because nothing is gonna happen. If me jabbing you is gonna get you to do something I'll throw a left hook.

[EspressoPatronum]

My team's reads mixed with some observations from skimming:

- why is Volpe townreading me so much?
- Elements is on par with his town game
- Ank's scumread on me is low hanging fruit. Maybe Ank is doing a slayer's play? The full town reads list with only me as scum is weird.
- if Volpe!scum, FL shouldn't get a free pass

[GuyInFreezer]

I wish this Team Mafia allowed swapping
Because if so I can grab this game hostage by threatening to swap with RC whenever something displeases me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can handle RC better than I can handle you, I feel.

[EspressoPatronum]

Good stuff from Farkran and GiF

[Flavor Leaf]

RC/FL - town/town games don’t really lose, and those are the games I usually am the one that solves.

[EspressoPatronum]

@Ank thanks for linking those games btw. I haven't had a chance to read through any yet, but I'll get to them eventually.

[Volpe14]

- why is Volpe townreading me so much?

Can I Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V this from my hood?

I explained it there

but like, rough summary on the read I had (note that I dropped it as of now) is mostly because of your posting about DV's crumbing that later you give credit to your team amte.

I feel like your team mate if you're scum would only read the game to help you search for crumbs for PRs, which at first glance would really add up with the fact you noticed DV crumbing (if he's crumbing anyway? I'm not sure), but the fact you went ahead and posted it in the main thread makes me hesitant to think you've rolled scum, because I think as a newbie/newbie team you would be more hesitant of posting that you noticed someone crumbing when you guys are...hunting for crumbs from PRs.

I feel like scum would get more self-conscious there, while town noticing it would be like "this is really dumb/funny so let's post it".

[Farkran]

My team's reads mixed with some observations from skimming:

- why is Volpe townreading me so much?
- Elements is on par with his town game
- Ank's scumread on me is low hanging fruit. Maybe Ank is doing a slayer's play? The full town reads list with only me as scum is weird.
- if Volpe!scum, FL shouldn't get a free pass

...why do even you think of yourself as easy lynchbait? Are you famous for always rolling scum or something? Because i really see no indication of you being a low hanging fruit or lynchbait so far

Also do you think that volpe and FL would put THAT much effort into distancing? I could see FL doing that, hardly volpe, based on the profile i've drawn of the two slots. I made peace with them never being in the same scumteam.

[MariaR]

i overlooked that sentence you bolded, but now that i focused on it i don't find it inherently scummy. Why do you?

I feel like it completely negates his statement before so I'm just confused on why he made it because I feel like I must've read it wrong.

Scumreading daves for that means entering the world of deepwolves, so my first question is: do you know daves for being a proficient deepwolf?

I just, disagree. As someone who is known for having above avg scumplay I think the way we're looking for scum or maybe at scum is two different ways. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But, I feel like you're looking for basic things. You talk about how this takes 'effort' this is team mafia if there's ever a game people are gonna put the effort in it's this one. I'm trying to read actions and mindsets of players where I see you going on a more simple path. Not that this is wrong per se, but what I'm trying to say is I think I find stuff scummy you wouldn't. Because 'deep wolf' isn't a term I would use because it isn't relevant to the topic at hand. Effort doesn't=deep wolf in my eyes.

? Second question would be: why do you feel fine validating what is bad town play by the manual (the earlier chennis and gammagoey), but punishing what would be good town play (daves)?

I don't think this exists. But, can you quote what exactly you're talking about?

[EspressoPatronum]

- why is Volpe townreading me so much?

Can I Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V this from my hood?

I explained it there

but like, rough summary on the read I had (note that I dropped it as of now) is mostly because of your posting about DV's crumbing that later you give credit to your team amte.

I feel like your team mate if you're scum would only read the game to help you search for crumbs for PRs, which at first glance would really add up with the fact you noticed DV crumbing (if he's crumbing anyway? I'm not sure), but the fact you went ahead and posted it in the main thread makes me hesitant to think you've rolled scum, because I think as a newbie/newbie team you would be more hesitant of posting that you noticed someone crumbing when you guys are...hunting for crumbs from PRs.

I feel like scum would get more self-conscious there, while town noticing it would be like "this is really dumb/funny so let's post it".

This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for expanding on your read

[Almost50]

@Skitter’s teammate - Ask them off this is true or not.

You really think I need to ask skitter about you???

[Volpe14]

Espresso/Fark playstyles are pretty refreshing to this thread to be fair.

[Volpe14]

Also do you think that volpe and FL would put THAT much effort into distancing?

To understand how lazy I'm on distancing you need to consider that I was so bothered in playing LyLo in a game as scum that I made my team mate counter claim my fake cop claim in thread even though it's was super sub-optimal (I just wanted everything to burn by that point too)

Let that sink in.

Then hmmm, I don't see myself fake 1v1'ing FL for 1 hour and messing up my sleep schedule for "theaters"...

[EspressoPatronum]

My team's reads mixed with some observations from skimming:

- why is Volpe townreading me so much?
- Elements is on par with his town game
- Ank's scumread on me is low hanging fruit. Maybe Ank is doing a slayer's play? The full town reads list with only me as scum is weird.
- if Volpe!scum, FL shouldn't get a free pass

...why do even you think of yourself as easy lynchbait? Are you famous for always rolling scum or something? Because i really see no indication of you being a low hanging fruit or lynchbait so far

To my knowledge, I have no reputation as being easy lynchbait. If anything, my reputation is more that I obvtown eventually.

I also have no scum meta, as I've never rolled scum on this site. I'm assuming it's just that I'm less active in this game than I usually am, so I'm not as present to defend myself.

Also do you think that volpe and FL would put THAT much effort into distancing? I could see FL doing that, hardly volpe, based on the profile i've drawn of the two slots. I made peace with them never being in the same scumteam.

Maybe. While the comment about not getting a free pass came from a teammate that knows FL pretty well, I'm aware of FL's reputation for big plays as scum.

That part of the read also came from the perspective of Volpe flipping scum, so it's not really an issue whether I think Volpe is capable of making such a distancing play.

[Volpe14]

I would like to think that if FL flips scum in any world, I'm virtually a IC, but I'm not sure everyone would just go with that hmm

But we're not flipping FL probably anyway so...

:shrug:

[Volpe14]

Espresso any reason you're less active here than what you usually are?

[EspressoPatronum]

Espresso any reason you're less active here than what you usually are?

Three reasons:
1. This game started right as I was traveling back home from the holidays.
2. I'm on a moot team + our written submission is in a week. We're doing full days of research/writing/edits.
3. With the time I have for maf, I've been focusing more on a different game I'm involved in rn.

#1 is complete. I'll be a lot more free once #2 and/or #3 free up.

[EspressoPatronum]

While I have you here, Volpe, can you expand on this:

[...] rough summary on the read I had (note that I dropped it as of now) [...]