TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Volpe14]

Hmm I had thought about a good idea of what to do

[DeasVail]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

[Flavor Leaf]

What’s your point

[Volpe14]

UNVOTE:

[Ankamius]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

it's a focus because I can't be confident on you being town or scum

you're experienced enough to know how to keep thought processes/trajectories in order, I don't know you well enough to tell the difference, and you have a playstyle I struggle to accurately parse

[Ankamius]

volpe are you ok

[DeasVail]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

it's a focus because I can't be confident on you being town or scum

you're experienced enough to know how to keep thought processes/trajectories in order, I don't know you well enough to tell the difference, and you have a playstyle I struggle to accurately parse

Wouldn’t that indicate you may need to take a different approach to reading me? Rather than thought processes/trajectories?

[Farkran]

I don't look at what people are doing
I look at WHY they're doing what they're doing

Eh... that's my problem. I think i am doing the same, or at the very least both. I am not picking apart simple words or sentences, i am trying to get if they can come from a scum mindset or not. Internal consistency, motive or lack thereof for removing anyone from the game, opportunism, busyworking, etc. I may agree that we are doing it differently - but contrary to say, people like chennis, who i do not agree with but i can recognize his scumhunting methods, i can't recognize yours.

I compare what people are trying to do with what I think scum are trying to do and see if they match

Ok... what are scum trying to do in this gamestate? I have my own opinion about this, and i expect yours does not match mine so i am curious to hear it to see if you are, at least, being internally consistent.

[Farkran]

UNVOTE:

Bye volpe, see you later

I honestly noticed the same things as your 1974 and was about to suggest taking a little break to let things grow without us fertilizing them. I might do the same, taking advantage of being away from home tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

this reminds me that chenn mentioned stuff about this that would indicate town although I'd need to double check to lock that

if the pieces are falling into place properly, GIF/Deas/Gamma/'lurkers'/EP/elements should probably have the scumteam

I'm struggling to see most of the other players fitting into this right now

[Ankamius]

tl;dr it's a work in progress

[davesaz]

Hmm I had thought about a good idea of what to do

What was that multiquote with no comment about?

[chennisden]

I absolutely agree with how Maria views dave

[chennisden]

Ooh I also think kuribo is town after thinking about it a bit more

[Ankamius]

Ank, why is your read of me influenced by what is in/not in my scumrange?

I ask because there’s nothing especially notable about my posts so far. I haven’t posted anything that I “wouldn’t be able” to post as scum.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that there is good reason for other people to think I’m town here, but your focus on my “scumrange” feels lazy.

it's a focus because I can't be confident on you being town or scum

you're experienced enough to know how to keep thought processes/trajectories in order, I don't know you well enough to tell the difference, and you have a playstyle I struggle to accurately parse

Wouldn’t that indicate you may need to take a different approach to reading me? Rather than thought processes/trajectories?

I'd have to find it first!

[Farkran]

I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

this reminds me that chenn mentioned stuff about this that would indicate town although I'd need to double check to lock that

if the pieces are falling into place properly, GIF/Deas/Gamma/'lurkers'/EP/elements should probably have the scumteam

I'm struggling to see most of the other players fitting into this right now

Ok. May i suggest taking a step forward from simple generalization and try to concretize these posts into actual names?

Volpe vs FL = TvT
Farkran vs Chennis = TvT
Farkran vs Nom = TvT
Farkran vs Ankamius = TvT

...that's a lot of farkran, adding in that i've been fighting with FL too. You must really think i am bad at being town, if every one of my "fights" has been picked against town. I'm not taking it on a personal level or being prideful, i just find it hard to believe that you think i have been wrong every single time, yet you're still townreading me. I would understand not being sure, but *all* of those people -including me- are hard townreads of yours.

I see that you are treating Nom vs GIF and volpe vs Elements, perhaps Maria vs Daves? in a different fashion though. However... i don't understand why? What's the difference?

[davesaz]

I absolutely agree with how Maria views dave

Do tell, how does Maria view me?

[Ankamius]

volpe vs fl
gif/volpe vs nom

those are the two I'm referring to

I either never even noticed or had forgotten that you had 1v1s with chenn and nom, although really I'm pushing half the plist vs nom in the same thing

a lot of it is irrelevant or TvT

I don't believe that scum has been under the spotlight except for the possible exception of Elements; scum are more likely to be on the outskirts or just not here entirely

[Gammagooey]

This post is not really going to help people parse me or my reads better but I feel that it's kind of needed.

@Volpe, chennis, Flavor Leaf & nomnom in particular, but it applies to a few more people to a lesser extent too - you realize that your ENORMOUS quantity of posting is making the game really, REALLY difficult to parse, right?

Like, I think I've done a pretty good job of keeping up with this game, but if you ask me right now I it's pretty difficult for me to put together in my head the reasons of why you're voting who you're voting at the moment because the game just feels like a gigantic pile of different conversations stacked on top of each other. It's really hard to gauge how hard you're scumreading your given suspects and why at any given point without spending 5-10 or even 20 minutes reading through the surrounding posts for context, and I think the ability to do that and see when it changes and why is pretty damn important for reading people for a lot of players.

Like, at the moment we're playing basically without DEB, Vex, Volxen, arguably Elements, and to some extent kuribo (though his abscense is also sickness related) partially because of how dense this game has gotten and how hard it is to catch up. Hell, Vex mentioned YESTERDAY that he was coming back from V/LA and working on catching up on a 30 page backlog, and we've added another 23 pages since then. I don't think anyone is going to argue that all of them could be scum, and for each one that isn't it's going to be harder and harder to actually get a wagon on scum through and gives scum more influence on the game and in addition to that all of the noise of this game is just mentally kind of exhausting to deal with.

So please guys - try to condense your posts a little better, wait a few minutes before posting to see if there's anything you want to add on instead of making a separate post or 2 or 3, or even just make a spoilered summary post of your thoughts once in a while so that the people catching up can process it better. If you need to talk to one or two people in particular to read them then that's fine, but please just remember that mafia is a team game (even disregarding other members of our individual teams that might be trying to read along!) and I'd really appreciate if ya'll could just make it a little easier for everyone to actually play it and contribute.

[chennisden]

I absolutely agree with how Maria views dave

Do tell, how does Maria view me?

"I agree with the former part of this quote that I forgot to quote that I’m probably a bit bias in the fact that I consider myself such a good scum player combining that with team mafia maybe my expectations are a bit high. Like if I saw an ‘easy’ scumread or reason to scumread someone I would probably give it pause (like the Ank example from before) I also agree that walls and effort are pretty NAI. The part I want to know is what examples from dave/chen do you find dif because our reads are exactly the other way around where I see Chenn as ya know, doing things. Compared to Dave who is playing to get an advantage."

Forgot which post this was from.

Also unrelated but I think I'm starting to scumread Gamma. I'll try to expand on this later

[chennisden]

Basically Ctrl+V how I felt on Farkran/Dave

[chennisden]

Also it's notable Gamma has agreed with a lot of the direction the thread has gone and gone with the flow. He really hasn't pushed anything he ostensibly believes with any weight, really, and his ISO looks like busywork. Since I also kind of think the game has been going in the wrong direction I think this is a productive avenue to explore

[davesaz]

That was quite unhelpful. Maybe if you use your own words?

[Flavor Leaf]

Ok I don't have much time atm but basically our group as a collective thinks that volpe is town and lynching our townread is very bad idea.

@GIF - Jingle wants to know what exactly prompted this, specifically from NSG and Bitmap.

[Flavor Leaf]

i've been fighting with FL too

Where was I for this, I don’t remember ever fighting with you. All I said to you early game was your posting style reminds me of Scum Brian Skies, which is still ringing true, but you’re a bit more of a presence.