TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

[jjh927]

Even if Mastina is town we should just lynch her if the 1v1 keeps going, and even if she's scum we would take the forced ceasefire so that we can actually gamesolve and as her pro-town option.

I mean this steaming pile of shit specifically

[jjh927]

So are you in favour of making people lynch in you and Mastina or not

[jjh927]

"If you don't stop doing this 1V1 I'll continue doing this 1V1"

That's what you sound like

[jjh927]

Might actually have been helpful in the end because that's what town!RC sounds like

[jjh927]

Things will be better if you deescalate it yourself

Vote Kerset maybe

[jjh927]

OK, I finished catching up. Reads:

{Bitmap, Klick} <- TOWN
{Jingle, Mena, Chemist} <- TOWN-LEAN
{hito, Alisae, Shadoweh, Kerset} <- NULL
{ofrhz, jjh} <- SCUM-LEAN
{mastina} <- SCUM

I spent way too long trying to write up an in-depth reads list and only got like halfway-through, then realized it was kind of pointless and a waste of time, which makes me sad. Will probably end up elaborating on these more later, but I'm way too tired as is.

VOTE: mastina

Good fucking god is it actually just really that easy?
Is it really just Bitmap-Kerset-Gammaslot?
Because holy shit.
It sure as fuck feels that way.

That's where my head's at.

I think if I were to make a readslist right now it would look ridiculous because I currently have a reasonably firm TR on everyone in the game who is not those 3 people

[jjh927]

Hito, to be clear;
I don't understand why the throwaway defence would be made as either alignment, but that doesn't mean it's not AI if you can figure it out. I just can't rn. There are other things that occurred when it got pushed that I think definitely do indicate alignment and I'm particularly interested in what happens after Kerset reappears following disappearing mid conversation

[jjh927]

You know ofrhz said the same thing I did but in different words right

[jjh927]

I'll put it in words that cannot be misunderstood

I scumread Bitmap
Other people are townreading him for shitty generalisations that are being used as counterarguments to the main reasons I scumread him
I have stated that these arguments are bad, and furthermore why I think they are bad, and that there appear to be quite a lot of them
This is in order to convince other people they are wrong

The examples you have provided about generalisations about Mastina basically amount to Alisae saying Mastina should scumread Alisae. I don't think this is a very good argument either.

If you think people might have their reads off about Mastina because of generalisations such as that one, then WHY ARE YOU VOTING MASTINA

[jjh927]

Oh you beautiful scumbutt

Since you've made 1260 and all you may as well tell me whether the gamma slot is indeed the other scumbuddy

[jjh927]

Is it bad that I'm thinking about how 1264 is right on cue

[jjh927]

Wagoning Mastina is still bad and wrong

[jjh927]

I didn't actually read much of ali V pine after I died but I recall hearing some people did a similarly bad lynch there

[jjh927]

He's voting town either way

[jjh927]

If you mislynch Mastina it's gonna leave a real bad impression on your tiebreak scores

[jjh927]

Where do you honestly stand on Kerset, Bitmap

[jjh927]

@jj: bitmap green flip, where would you go and what are your thoughts?

Still Kerset. Kerset is my top scumread independent of you, though I won't deny I think a Kerset red flip would look bad for you right now.

Probably also the gamma slot.

Assuming green flip is by lynch there'd be the wagon info but nobody is wagoning you so this is a difficult hypothetical. If you expand to people I have minor suspicions of at this moment, they have been saying you're town

[jjh927]

You really think scum!Kerset would hard defend a scum slot and not just bus them for ez credit?

Which slot are we talking about here

[jjh927]

RC wanted me to leave a message for those of you asking for NSG that she's too good for y'all and that y'all suck.

NSG is supposed to be carrying my team so this is a contract violation

[jjh927]

Title is currently Ant Rod Try Pod Destroys Aenim

[jjh927]

Did you know that "Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime" is an an anagram of "Mods Endorse Nudity Portrait"

[jjh927]

WRT Kerset meta

This is his only scumgame on site:
viewtopic.php?t=81570&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

It’s actually really lackluster in terms of having zero fake scumhunting and forgetting to use his vote entirely. The tone is fine but a little less quippy than when he is town.

It’s possible he’s getting help here, but I think I’m actually going to table this scumread for now.

[quote="In post 838
It’s actually really lackluster in terms of having zero fake scumhunting and forgetting to use his vote entirely. The tone is fine but a little less quippy than when he is town.
[/quote]

[quote="In post 838
forgetting to use his vote entirely.
[/quote]

[jjh927]

Fuck where'd my close square brackets go

[jjh927]

Holy shit that is a bad push on me

[jjh927]

I can't even comprehend how you of all people could possibly link me posting a lot to me being scum here

[jjh927]

I'm really struggling to see a world where town you actually makes that argument

[jjh927]

Yeah it's called playing the game

[jjh927]

Mastina is town and so am I

Your pushes suck

We can do this all day

[jjh927]

I don't like the Mastina wagon, sure

But you know my meta? Like, why is activity from me concerning to you at all?

[jjh927]

For day 1, yes, my activity is the same as both alignments.
It's hyperposting all the way.

[jjh927]

But you're totally neglecting the part where I interact with whoever happens to be there when I am and use that to place them and others, which is how I end up voting people like Kerset when a bunch of other people have expressed townreads there. That's not how I'd go about changing the gamestate. It involves changing people's minds.

[jjh927]

I'm sure you know that aspect of my play. Because it used to be exclusively my townplay and sure, now I can do it as scum too, for as long as I can stay enthusiastic, but it's weird that you're seeing something I was doing as early as spring fever and interpreting it completely wrong

PEdit: Not for lack of trying. But I pointed that out because changing people's minds is A. Hard and B. Opens you up to more accountability.

[jjh927]

I was sceptical about this but if you've read big four then the misunderstanding makes more sense

[jjh927]

man jjh, tbh, Spring Fever was a long time ago and I don't really remember that game.

Yeah but I mean this has basically always been my playstyle as town and only more recently have I been able to mimic elements of it as scum

[jjh927]

Kerset, Gammaslot, Bitmap scum
In order of likelihood.

Basically everyone else is some degree of town
Ofrhz town but maybe scum but I don't think ofrhz is scum with Kerset.
You have also at various points been a town but maybe scum but you've probably gone up again
Menalque has slipped a bit from being hard town since my last list

Most people are pretty damn hard town rn though. Although actually Klick is definitely in a slightly lower category so deserves mention. Jingle, Shadoweh and Hito all look very town. Mastina and Chemist are townreads I probably won't ever drop.

[jjh927]

Thing is, Ali, I don't think compromise beteeen us is gonna achieve anything other than a Reundo lynch

Wouldn't be that much of an issue I guess, but then we're right back to this place where one of us is highly likely to be wrong about at least one hard townread

I kinda need to go to bed. It's 9:26 am

[jjh927]

But this is the same issue I'm having with skitter's reads fwiw

[jjh927]

what are skitter's reads?

I could go on discord and find them, but in short skitter has been disagreeing with me a lot. Often comically timed for whenever my read on someone changed. I'd hash this out but Skitter isn't fully caught up

Eg Skitter scumreads Mastina, townreads Bitmap and Kerset, and would be voting Hito

[jjh927]

Legends of Hidden Speakeasy II

Also I have reads from NSG but it’s mixed in with RC since we were discussing about it in discord. I’ll paraphrase it later when I’m home from work.

Did you get the chance to do this?

So RC thinks we can find scum but thinks the gamestate is at a point where giving reads is not a good time right now. He thinks when we or when anyone else catches scum, it'll be pretty easy for scum to push either my slot or mastina. This needs to be resolved before there can be any serious approach to hunting for scum.
Even if Mastina is town we should just lynch her if the 1v1 keeps going, and even if she's scum we would take the forced ceasefire so that we can actually gamesolve and as her pro-town option.

NSG has no intention of giving reads right now as well until this whole thing settles.

Also what do you think of this?

The point behind it kind of makes sense as a stalking horse thing. Scum shop for wagons and if they fail they can come back to the 1V1.

Except. It's not making good observations come from that. You get an ultimatum that Bitmap himself has a hand in instead. The only actual way that could be "resolved" is indeed a lynch, and Mastina is the only one of those two who has ever been close to being lynched. The 1V1 hasn't been distracting from the gamestate. It's only visibly been distracting Bitmap, so it was weird to see him make a post like this without any immediate steps towards deescalation.

[jjh927]

I think there's a good chance that scum is hard defending me because they know I'll flip green and am an easy lynch which gives them a vehicle to push jj and mastina to the wall and control game state.

But I really don't care anymore so... yeah.

also what do you think of this

It's a scumpost through and through. Direct contradiction to things Bitmap has said earlier. Bitmap has been nowhere near being lynched but is still talking about flipping. The only people pushing Bitmap are me and Mastina.

The scenario like this one I'd expect a person with real thoughts to be concerned about is that scum are driving the Mastina wagon to see it flip town and lynch him day 2. Because in this post he expresses some paranoia and assumes me and Mastina are town, but the scenario is still focused on Bitmap being the victim who gets mislynched. Amusingly I'm pretty sure Bitmap actually said at one point to lynch him if Mastina flips town.

[jjh927]

Jjh skitt said she was hard TRing me from my early play this game, correct? What was that read based on? Tell her I want her to answer with more than “idk just Tone I guess”

You wanted to know skitter's reads and kept asking about it, and she doesn't think you'd go to that much trouble as scum before you know how engaged she is, whereas town!you cares what she thinks.

[jjh927]

Also @jjh what’s the long and short on why you TR mastina and scumread kerset and bitmap?

I'll need to get to my computer for that, I think.

Kerset is I think page 44 and a couple pages after?

[jjh927]

I'll get to other things when I'm on my computer

I don't think Amrun has read this game

[jjh927]

Still not at computer but I'd like to know how NSG thinks you've been mistreated, preferably with examples

[jjh927]

I think this is it

[jjh927]

Mastina's been where I'm at for ages
Jingle looks to be pretty nearby
Alisae is now where I'm at
Menalque is here if you squint

This is an elite towncore

[jjh927]

I think this is it

Nice, wanna vote it then

I mean the stars have aligned and we've got a bunch of elite players in team fucking mafia who agree on many important details.

But sure
VOTE: Reundo

This is the laziest option, and I said we were probably headed here (before Ali reads fully 180ed), but I don't think it matters what order we lynch scum in.

[jjh927]

Well I think we'd all do Kerset too

[jjh927]

Your pure mechanics is better than mine

[jjh927]

I have no idea where my play and my modding stand in relation to each other

[jjh927]

Did you watch overlord yet Ali

[jjh927]

We should just make a new one tbh

[jjh927]

When this game ends on day 3 we can return to this

[jjh927]

Also uh

Chem

U have UT at the bottom of your readslist?

yeah duh

lmao I missed that
If UT flips town I'm gonna dock you survey points

[jjh927]

Your pure mechanics is better than mine

Sure, but let's be honest. If there was a way for FL to play two games and me to just sit in the team PT and setup spec you'd be playing a game with FL right now.

Thank fuck

[jjh927]

Thank fuck

jjh supports UT's TM decision to not let me be an honorary team member. Clearly he's aligned with UT and wants to Delay Aimee.

[jjh927]

I would consider those both quite tame. Do carry on though

[jjh927]

NSG agrees with my post in 388 where she thinks people treat me as RC's puppet rather than an actual player of this game. It's not to push the agenda of persecution complex but rather she was surprised that people were being in my face about how I was just in the shadow of my team.

That's a post from you, and not an example

[jjh927]

like I don't really care about that play the game

I'm asking about this because I think NSG has a higher tolerance for what actually construes mistreatment than this

[jjh927]

ok but personally I would prefer not to hear about bitmap talk about how he's been mistreated for the 7th time

Sure but this is either NSG's legitimate take on it or one that she's been locked into advising on. I consider NSG to be far more aware of this kind of thing and less inclined to perceive injustice than either Bitmap or RC, so I think it's actually important here.

[jjh927]

eg I'd expect NSG to see all the shit Bitmap did that is neatly summarised in Mastina's 612 and at most say there is blood on both sides. Whereas the sole victim Bitmap perspective seems less likely from NSG unless it's more of the same propped up by another name.

So like, there's a higher standard of evidence going when it's NSG, and I think it's worth sifting through the shit one last time because there might be a nugget of truth hidden amidst all the poop nuggets.

[jjh927]

@Ali: nsg said that e is cornered

Really?

[jjh927]

Ali is one of the most free individuals in this game. You can tell because of the shitposting in the face of this NSG scumread. Is it this scumread that has supposedly got Ali cornered?

[jjh927]

Ofhrz, didn't you make a point about how scum kerset forgets to even vote

[jjh927]

Konichiwa mina-san I was informed the game began and since I'm way too busy watching Phoenix Wright with cute girls to read this my team left me some notes:

- They are very jealous of this playerlist get fucked bitches
- chemist is town, ofrhz is prob town, jjh is possibly scum
- mastina should be put in quarentine (I would always put mastina in quarentine I literally don't think I've ever read a mastina post and thought she was town tbh)

Arigato nakama I will actually read this ashita! Desu uwu

I don't trust you. We are awesome and you wouldn't just leave us. Get back here evil one.
VOTE: shadow

First vote. Not much more to say.

I guess i should update this as well
VOTE: ofrhz

Second vote. Immediately followed the posting of a readslist which you asked for. On close examination, I think there might be something fucky going on with the timings on when that was posted. There was 1 minute and 21 seconds between Kerset's previous post and that readslist, provided on request for his top scumread. I don't know how long anyone else takes to make readslists but that seems inordinately fast. And then of course he changes his vote because he has to keep up with his reads. Which are awfully conveniently aligned with the emerging ofrhz wagon.

Spoiler: Exhibit 2a: Aforementioned Readslist

When you’re done catching up, could I get a quick readslist so I can see where you are?

Kerset
Bitmap
Chemist1422
Alisae

jjh927
Klick
Shadoweh
Gamma Emerald
mastina

Menalque
Jingle
hitogoroshi
ofrhz
Lady Ann

Spoiler: Exhibit 2b: Votecount at the time

Votecount 1.08
Klick (4): Alisae, Menalque, hitogoroshi, mastina ofrhz (3): Chemist1422, jjh927, Jingle Shadoweh (2): Kerset, Bitmap hitogoroshi (2): Shadoweh, Klick Kerset (1): ofrhz Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

Note: Jingle is bolded as he moved his vote to ofrhz between the votecount being posted and Kerset's vote.

VOTE: mastina

This was Kerset's last vote. I think it's interesting that it didn't get shifted to me at any point in the little back and forth we had.

Spoiler: Exhibit 3a: Votecount at the time

Votecount 1.13
hitogoroshi (3): Shadoweh, Klick, ofrhz mastina (3): Jingle, Bitmap, Alisae Bitmap (2): mastina, jjh927 Gamma Emerald (2): Menalque, Chemist1422 ofrhz (1): Kerset Shadoweh (1): hitogoroshi Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline : (expired on 2020-01-16 20:30:00)

[jjh927]

Bitmap, I am reading the posts, for what it is worth

Does NSG have anything to say about Kerset

[jjh927]

Also my Ali townread isn't based on Ali agreeing with me

[jjh927]

I think we'll lynch all the scum before you flip

[jjh927]

Did NSG read 1697 which I just posted

Because I think Kerset's votes with context absolutely scream scum

[jjh927]

VOTE: Kerset

Reundo's not L-1 any more.
I want to lynch Kerset a lot more than I want to lynch Reundo

[jjh927]

I'll consider switching my vote back if someone I respect tells me to

The thing where Reundo doesn't have a good reason for scumreading me whatsoever does line up perfectly with Alisae's assessment of his readslist

[jjh927]

You mean Reundo and yes that was one of my thoughts

[jjh927]

my role is Domokun, I don't have any abilities outside of my vote (so basically a VT). Sorry about the long wall and my lack of activity overall. The rest of today and tomorrow is a bit sketchy for me, but I'll try to make more time for this game if at all possible.

I am pretty sure this is a scumclaim; does anyone care to venture a guess as to why?

Hint: thinking the game is role madness, isn't the reason why.

I feel like if there was a thing I'd be able to see it

[jjh927]

OOOH

[jjh927]

Yeah I missed that because it's only implied by the claiming

[jjh927]

I’d prefer to wait for a claim tbh

But I mean this was the previous post

[jjh927]

My character is definitely not an actual anime character

[jjh927]

So really the trick is to rand scum in games that have unhinged townplayers

[jjh927]

Ether game was town win

[jjh927]

Also I thought there was only one scum win

[jjh927]

Yeah town won white flag in spite of town

[jjh927]

I remember because the EDDIE CANE team I was in went 4-1 and we only had town role PMs

[jjh927]

The shitshow that was the mini normal was the scum win so finalists for the tiebreak were people who had scum in that game and people who only got town role PMs

Also what's this GIF wrecking Ali thing

[jjh927]

I don't recall Alisae being in the tiebreak game

[jjh927]

Ah okay

I think the popularity contest tiebreak we have for this event is better because I can threaten to dock people survey points

[jjh927]

I found the game
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=75024

[jjh927]

And here's Day 3

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=75451

[jjh927]

Subject: Tiebreak Mafia Day 3

who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT

[jjh927]

Actually, no. It's something else.

Can you not just say what the thing is

[jjh927]

I'd rather have it confirmed that Kerset and Bitmap are indeed scum before thinking about Bitmap

[jjh927]

I'd rather have it confirmed that Kerset and Reundo are indeed scum before thinking about Bitmap

ebwop

[jjh927]

Bitmap is the least likely of the three to be scum though

[jjh927]

I'd rather lynch people who I'm more confident will flip scum

[jjh927]

Probably

[jjh927]

I don't think that by not lynching Bitmap it's gonna mean we can't lynch in Kerset and Reundo

[jjh927]

That's just a fact of life

[jjh927]

Come vote Kerset

[jjh927]

I think it should be common knowledge at this point that killing me only makes me stronger

[jjh927]

Let's go through some key games

Gamma's upick- They nightkilled me the same night the last scum got vigged and the game ended in a town win
Vengeful ghosts- Was struck down. Became more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Krazy's anime upick- Scum nightkilled me and I showed up in their PT because I was a recruitable traitor
A story revisited- I was deathproof. I announced such when I correctly identified that scum had failed to kill me and then continued to push my reads.
And this shit goes all the way back to Spring Fever where I redirected that scumkill back onto scum

Shoutout to that hydra upick where we got Yume to set her own hydra on fire

[jjh927]

I think it should be common knowledge at this point that killing me only makes me stronger

No. What

DOESN'T

kill you makes you stronger.

Really? Well I guess that means that the subsets of things that

A. Kill me
B. Do not kill me

make me stronger

[jjh927]

Show me on the sample role PM what you think is missing, Mastina

Spoiler: Sample Role PM

高倉 陽毬 (Himari Takakura)

Welcome, [username]! You are 高倉 陽毬 (Himari Takakura), a

MafiaScum Anime Avatar Resistance Fighters (MAARF)

member.

Your Abilities

• MAARF Tactical Response Unit
  : During the day phase, you may use this unit to vote to lynch one player.

Your Win Condition

• Make MafiaScum Safe Again
  : You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one MAARF member alive.

Good luck, have fun, and save our Anime Avatars.

[jjh927]

Are you sure he meant for you to put that message here and not in the scum PT

[jjh927]

This isn't far at all off what Bitmap complained about Mastina doing

[jjh927]

VOTE: Bitmap

[jjh927]

I read the posts without a snack

Possible side effects include voting Bitmap

[jjh927]

@jjh

NSG wants to know if you talked to your team at all or not.

NSG ought to know I've talked to skitter

[jjh927]

I've mentioned talking to skitter in this game

We haven't been agreeing on things

[jjh927]

Oh you meant since that post

I've only been talking with Skitter and we haven't been agreeing on things

[jjh927]

NSG also wants to know if you can elaborate why you are townreading Alisae if not because e's "on the same page" as you?

The read went to hard town shortly after e realised I was town. Look at the realisation and the justification and the behind the scenes work that would be totally unnecessary for scum and the read progression everywhere else in the game that follows from it. That's town.

[jjh927]

How come NSG is doing all this engaging through you but doesn't appear to be convincing you of any reads? This all feels more like a heartfelt appeal than an attempt to place people

[jjh927]

It's not about the fact that Alisae is townreading me or Mastina. It's the way the conclusion is reached, and the thought process behind it.

[jjh927]

V/LA for a couple of days

The Bitmap wagon really strongly looks like a mislynch to me
VOTE: Reundo

I'd switch to Alisae if a wagon built up there and the alternative was Bitmap.

What looks bad about it

[jjh927]

Like, let's say it's building as a counterwagon to scum!Reundo

First question: Why? Scum would bus that shit into the ground

Second question: If it is indeed a counterwagon to scum!Reundo, it would be logical to assume that Bitmap was selected as the most likely wagon to lure town Reundo voters away. Do you agree with this, and what do you think about its implications?

[jjh927]

But how would you be a roleblocker in mountainous setups