Open 770: Fusion Mafia - Game Over!

[popsofctown]

I disagree with you at a theory level but your response was an agree-to-disagree at a theory level that's not inherently scummy, profii was really underminey and subversive

[pisskop]

So Im looking at my avatar more closely, it's got more flavor than I initially gave it credit for.

Cloven toes: probs a sheep?
scorpo tail
Lion mane
More 'feline' style facial features.

[pisskop]

I disagree with you at a theory level but your response was an agree-to-disagree at a theory level that's not inherently scummy, profii was really underminey and subversive

I think its a talk we could have...

Sheeping a dead player for the sake of it is exactly what scum would do. I think ank is incredibly competent as a player, and yet they SRed my slot? Their accuracy isn't ever going to be 100%, or even 75%.

Its something a scumteam (or outrageous gambiting town) could easily exploit. Look at the norway wagon. Would it have grown so fast/big if sheeping wasnt a factor?

And finally, dead people often die for many, many more reasons than their reads. smaller games I feel tend to have more strategic kills while larger ones tend to have more subtle ones, so thats a thing I guess, But its a fallacy to try to use a dead players reads as a guidebook, and its a bad habit; especially when in a mountainous.

[popsofctown]

you have definitely been through the breeder so many times you are at least +9

[popsofctown]

I think you are misunderstanding my reasoning.

My reasoning isn't, "Ank is dead, therefore her reads were right, therefore they should be sheeped".
My reasoning is, "I think Ank's reads are better than mine in general, and the only times they wouldn't be is when she's scum who's not bussing. Now that she is dead, that's ruled out, so only the good stuff remains".
If she was alive and I was hard townreading her it would be the same thing. I wasn't really townreading her that hard yesterday though tbh. It sounds like I'm in the minority on that.

[Flopz]

I read norwee's iso and it didn't make me feel more scared about deadsheeping Ank

Do you think scum killed Ank because she was on the money with her reads?

Who doesn't think that? Well at least 2/3.

[Flopz]

Norwee and Hectic I see your questioning. I realised I forgot to say in this particular game, I'm V/LA till Wednesday. I'll answer you guys eventually, for now don't expect much or any content from me (so just like normal lol).

[Flopz]

I think you are misunderstanding my reasoning.
I wasn't really townreading her that hard yesterday though tbh. It sounds like I'm in the minority on that.

What do you mean by that hard? The full-on sheeping kind of shows that not to be the case.

[popsofctown]

I think you are misunderstanding my reasoning.
I wasn't really townreading her that hard yesterday though tbh. It sounds like I'm in the minority on that.

What do you mean by that hard? The full-on sheeping kind of shows that not to be the case.

If she mislynched and then didn't get NKed I was going to murderlate her with ropes

[Flopz]

VOTE: Flopz
For post 1482.
It's bad analyzation at best, and grasping for an argument at worst.

I don't disagree that I have the propensity to logic bad. If you want to break it down and explain how I'm wrong be my guest.

[Flopz]

I think you are misunderstanding my reasoning.
I wasn't really townreading her that hard yesterday though tbh. It sounds like I'm in the minority on that.

What do you mean by that hard? The full-on sheeping kind of shows that not to be the case.

If she mislynched and then didn't get NKed I was going to murderlate her with ropes

I don't think you'd be in a super minority for that reasoning, Ank was most likely to get NK imo and it would've been surprising if it was anyone else, bar maybe Hopkirk. If she was trying to lead us to a ML and then didn't die in the night then fetching a rope would be the normal thing to do.

[Flopz]

And when I say maybe, it's like having Pepsi as a second to Coke. They might have some type of comparison but it really isn't the same when you're offered the alternative. (no offence Hop, ily).

[profii]

Ank probs died because she was obviously town?

So given that town dont know the game solve how do you feel about pops sheeping ank ?

That's hella sketch, tbh.

We take ank's reads into consideration but we shouldn't blindly sheep. What we do is use ank's reads to pressure wagon a player, ergo the norway wagon.

don't blame me
my hand was forced

Did you /in into Ether's thread?

I'm not sheeping Ank? I am querying why pops was sheeping- just like you said we shouldn't do?

[profii]

Sheeping a dead player for the sake of it is exactly what scum would do.

This is literally why I asked

[profii]

smaller games I feel tend to have more strategic kills

Again, exactly why I probed there

I have no idea why you seem to come to same conclusions as me yet vote me

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hectic/Pisskop, have you two had any previous experience with Ankamius? I think her read on me was overly ambitious for someone who's never seen my play before, and my disagreement has been obvious. But i'm curious if she has any possible meta experience which makes hear scumread on either of you any more valid? I'm asking since Pops reads changed so strongly yesterday.

[Hopkirk]

Because I like too much of one wagon and too little of the other. What are your thoughts on each side/the balance there?

I'm going to quote this since I'm going to assume PRofii hasn't answered it.

Pisskop is my partner.

VOTE: Pisskop

VOTE: Pisskop

Memes aside, why would you vote Pissy here if you think I actually claimed scum with Pissy? Wouldn't it make more sense to vote me since I could be scum trying to frame a townie?

It was a meme vote, but thinking about it the results are semi meaningful

It was quick enough that scum you wouldn't probably have had time to get the ok from Pisskop to say that so...
-you say that if you're town and he's town or scum
-you say that if you're scum and he's town
-you probably don't actually say it if you're scum

Observing you see that makes him slightly more likely to be town, and unlikely to be scum in worlds where you are (technically reducing both of your scum equity despite my confidence one of you is scum).

Norway's comment on PK at the start of the day semi feels like someone trying to defend someone so badly that we lynch them after NW flips.

We're going with lynch Norway then see who Hectic gets paired up with (cough profii) right?

Honestly, that's been my thought throughout this whole nightphase. We lynch one of these jokers and then take out the romantic couple that remains. The question is do we go for Norwee or Hectic? Norwee is basically ObvScum at this point so makes sense for a lynch on him straight out of the gate but I'm leaning towards the idea of taking out Hectic and then lynching the 100% confirmed ScumCouple that Norwee is on. I'm thinking of this on the incredibly low chance that Hectic is Town, which I don't believe for a second, we can then lynch Norwee the subsequent night and the ScumCouple that's left will be pretty obvious from those remaining.

Free Information

I didn't like the reversal of Hectic and PK for the vote, right at the end. Profii came out of left-field and completely changed my view of him with the move from Norwee to Dunn.

Alternatively, lynch the stronger scumread and ssee who the second strongest scumread is paired with since if you're going to lynch slot#2 either way you want to get into hood phase quicker.

Honestly, that's been my thought throughout this whole nightphase. We lynch one of these jokers and then take out the romantic couple that remains. The question is do we go for Norwee or Hectic? Norwee is basically ObvScum at this point so makes sense for a lynch on him straight out of the gate but I'm leaning towards the idea of taking out Hectic and then lynching the 100% confirmed ScumCouple that Norwee is on. I'm thinking of this on the incredibly low chance that Hectic is Town, which I don't believe for a second, we can then lynch Norwee the subsequent night and the ScumCouple that's left will be pretty obvious from those remaining.

So let me get this right. You think both me and Hectic are scum?

Why are you saying that like it's unreasonable at all?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why are you saying that like it's unreasonable at all?

Burden of proof lies on the accusers. Not the accused.

[Hopkirk]

@Norwee/Hectic: What would it take for you to buss as scum? Hypothetically.

I haven't played scum, but I think I'd bus at the point where I thought my partner would go down at the end of the day regardless of what I did.

This feels kind of misleady. I feel like I've seen you link your offsite scumgame before.
Is the second part of this based on irl mafia and what you think you do there usually, or did you try and imagine forum scum Hectic?

What if you're going for a tank build though? Like, I want to turtle up and block all incoming damage, and then peek out of my shell to cast hyper beam every once in a while.
I'm gonna go 100% AtE in my next game and see how it goes. Without making it toxic of course.

Can't we save this for Hoptic's next adventure?

Norwee what would you do for me as president? I could vote hectic here.

First off i would blatantly pander to my userbase by implementing anti-scum policies. Believe me, we need tough people. There are some bad dudes out there i’m telling ya, they’re criminals, rapists, the only way to safeguard our fair population and make our forum great again is by voting Norway Trump.

If you read the iso carefully you can actually see where Norway starts incorporating a ton of fluff and his tone completely changes/doesn't shift back.

I find that in times like these it's often a good idea to sheep hopkirk

Why?

I get that i'm being suspected because Dunn flipped town. But i still don't know why exactly people think my ISO is bad. And who are my teammates if i'm scum? The "Both you and Hectic are scum" argument is laughably bad tbh.

What are those arguments?
I feel like 'I'm being pushed because Dunn flipped town' is incredibly disingenous when most of the people pushing you were voting you (a 5 person wagon) at the end of the day yesterday.

VOTE: Flopz
For post 1482.
It's bad analyzation at best, and grasping for an argument at worst.

Is this the only Flopz post you've had a problem with?

I am possibly down to PL Hectic for avatar change

Agreement tbh.

[Hopkirk]

And when I say maybe, it's like having Pepsi as a second to Coke. They might have some type of comparison but it really isn't the same when you're offered the alternative. (no offence Hop, ily).

They can't kill me after I caught the scumteam (Profii/Norway/Hectic) day one. I assume I'm voting Norway right now instead of still meme-voting Pisskop who I scumread less than those 3, but I'm not going to check that.

Why are you saying that like it's unreasonable at all?

Burden of proof lies on the accusers. Not the accused.

Mob justice isn't particularly renowned for a commitment to due process.

I think you'll find we don't actually

need

any evidence to lynch you.
If it's laughably bad then perhaps substantiating why you being scum with someone you've townread the whole game is laughable instead of exercising your fifth amendment and asking for proof.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If it's laughably bad then perhaps substantiating why you being scum with someone you've townread the whole game is laughable instead of exercising your fifth amendment and asking for proof.

From where did you gather that i'm so strongly townreading Hectic?

[popsofctown]

Hopkirk is lying and faking Norwee, he's going to unvote when you're at L-1 and appoint you counsel to serve in your defense. Hopkirk has way too much respect for due process of law. You can see in his avatar that the lady thought it was so important to get a signed warrant from an impartial magistrate that she interrupted a judge who was offduty attending a dinner party, still wearing different clothes, before she executed a man with a single shot for unlawful consumption of an angelfish.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think you'll find we don't actually need any evidence to lynch you.

K.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is everyone in on the "let's bully Norwee" train this game? Jeez.

[Hopkirk]

I do agree that Hectic's got his head in the right place.
But he can be a bit crude. I wouldn't be surprised if he spilled his drink on my shirt or something when we're relaxing in our gentleman's club.

I feel like I should double check some things from NEE's past games but otherwise I think I'm good with meta stuff

I don’t think your progression is bad or faked, but i don’t get your scumread on me, is it really as simple as you’ve got townreads on everybody else? I think Hectic is town. PK i’ve mostly seen his towngame and it seems similar to here, nothing that overly pings me as of yet. Though i don’t agree with his Profii read, but i usually don’t agree with him regardless.
Saudade Ofhrz is obvtown according to you, why? Why is Gamma also a strong obvtown? Flopz is only null to you? What are you basing these reads on?

How do you feel about Hectic?

Townlean. I like his mood and tone so far, and it seems consistent with the town behavior in the games I've had with him.

Hectic I'm not a fan of.

Can you elaborate on this Hop? Hectic isn't as active lately, but there wasn't that much pinging me so far from him. What exactly are you not a fan of?

Hectic what are your reads right now?

I think you're town Flopz, that's why i'd like to talk more with you. It's true i haven't posted any reads lists in this game. But that's because i've felt like there have been too many players and variables, i tried making reads list in a 18 player game i had earlier and it turned into a fine mess because i usually hurry them, and when there are many slots to balance around you can make mistakes which are seen as scummy because you have faulty "progression" or whatever. So this time i wanted to just go around general scum and townreads until the player list of the game has narrowed down a bit. But if you want some direct reads i've got on my mind i can say them now. I obviously think Dunn's slot is bad. Curious about Gamma, suspicious of Ank. Don't like Pop's sheep vote. Hopkirk is towny, PK i've gotten suspicious of lately, though i initially intercepted the wagon on him as weird. Profii's play this game i don't like a whole lot, but seems like town due to reasons i said earlier. Hectic's tone is town. Ofrzh redeemed the slot he replaced a little. George newbtown tone, Elements is too twitchy to be scum.

You kind of

explicitly

say you townread him quite a few times, defend him from me, never ask him AI questions, I don't see you trying to sort him at all, your flip on him hasn't been explained yet as far as i remember, and you ask about 3/4 fluff questions that I didn't quote to him that I can see scum asking a partner to look like they're interacting when they're not.