BooneyToonz XIII: To Boon or Not To Boon - [END]

[Venus and Mars]

You can have a town enabler for a scum role. And vice versa.

Just want to throw that out there since it doesn't appear to be that obvious to the peanut gallery. The longer they're both alive increases the likelihood of one flipping red.

That also assumes I believe the claim.

Which I don't, so, there's that.

Extremely unlikely.

[chkflip]

I'm not interested in out-guessing the mod but to say it isn't possible or to simply ACCEPT both claims AS TOWN because they're loosely tied together is in error.

It's just as likely as there being a Goddamn enchantress.

[Venus and Mars]

RCE: i was talking to Nancy, in response to her asking if i thought she was compromised. the answer is no, by the way. i said that about Titus because her conclusions recently have been singular and black and white, ie "you disagree with me, so you're scum", and "there is an Enchantress" as opposed to "something interfered with night actions and Enchantress is my theory". was also trying to talk to Titus by saying that and hopefully get a discussion about it which is why my language was stronger than normal.

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

[Haggle]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

@Chara - go back to my massive quote from 50jp. He says 1 shot recharged weak desperate visitor. So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier, but in this game (according to Titus) is both weak and disloyal. So why add in weak, when desperate is already weak. That's my issue. Either Boon is using the same modifier in different ways in this game and changing its meaning case by case, or 50 has a redundant modifier, or one of 50 and Titus are lying.

BP

How are they using the modifier in different ways? It sounds identical to me.

Weak doesn't fail on town. Desperate does.

Wait, I thought desperate failed on scum?

BP

Take this back. I know what I'm saying, but you confused me. Yes, desperate is different than weak, but if you're desperate, then weak is redundant. Both weak and desperate die if targeting scum. So if your role was desperate (as claimed by A50), then there is no need for the additional modifier of weak, because desperate would have covered that.

BP

[Venus and Mars]

I'm not interested in out-guessing the mod but to say it isn't possible or to simply ACCEPT both claims AS TOWN because they're loosely tied together is in error.

It's just as likely as there being a Goddamn enchantress.

I’m trying to remember why Creature’s actions failed. Something isn’t adding up.

[chkflip]

What Haggle is saying is that Titus only claimed one similarity (desperate) but is also claiming the same effect (dying on scum) as 50's role. If desperate dies on scum, then, why is 50 also weak?

Pedit: we don't collectively know why both Creature and Titus failed in their abilities on 50. But we also don't know that it must have been an enchantress.

[RCEnigma]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

@Chara - go back to my massive quote from 50jp. He says 1 shot recharged weak desperate visitor. So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier, but in this game (according to Titus) is both weak and disloyal. So why add in weak, when desperate is already weak. That's my issue. Either Boon is using the same modifier in different ways in this game and changing its meaning case by case, or 50 has a redundant modifier, or one of 50 and Titus are lying.

BP

How are they using the modifier in different ways? It sounds identical to me.

Weak doesn't fail on town. Desperate does.

Wait, I thought desperate failed on scum?

BP

Take this back. I know what I'm saying, but you confused me. Yes, desperate is different than weak, but if you're desperate, then weak is redundant. Both weak and desperate die if targeting scum. So if your role was desperate (as claimed by A50), then there is no need for the additional modifier of weak, because desperate would have covered that.

BP

I get what you're saying and yeah they're redundant but they aren't the same. If that makes sense.

[Venus and Mars]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

@Chara - go back to my massive quote from 50jp. He says 1 shot recharged weak desperate visitor. So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier, but in this game (according to Titus) is both weak and disloyal. So why add in weak, when desperate is already weak. That's my issue. Either Boon is using the same modifier in different ways in this game and changing its meaning case by case, or 50 has a redundant modifier, or one of 50 and Titus are lying.

BP

How are they using the modifier in different ways? It sounds identical to me.

Weak doesn't fail on town. Desperate does.

Wait, I thought desperate failed on scum?

BP

Take this back. I know what I'm saying, but you confused me. Yes, desperate is different than weak, but if you're desperate, then weak is redundant. Both weak and desperate die if targeting scum. So if your role was desperate (as claimed by A50), then there is no need for the additional modifier of weak, because desperate would have covered that.

BP

Interesting. Titus only claimed desperate but A50 claimed both desperate and weak @Titus, can you please explain how Joan targeting you affects your A50 clear?

We do have proof that there was a miller in the setup, so that part of his role pm is confirmed.

[RCEnigma]

You can have a town enabler for a scum role. And vice versa.

Just want to throw that out there since it doesn't appear to be that obvious to the peanut gallery. The longer they're both alive increases the likelihood of one flipping red.

That also assumes I believe the claim.

Which I don't, so, there's that.

Extremely unlikely.

Did finish a game not long ago with tracker enabler as a scum role. A50 was there. Mod was also there. So idk about highly unlikely.

[Venus and Mars]

What Haggle is saying is that Titus only claimed one similarity (desperate) but is also claiming the same effect (dying on scum) as 50's role. If desperate dies on scum, then, why is 50 also weak?

Pedit: we don't collectively know why both Creature and Titus failed in their abilities on 50. But we also don't know that it must have been an enchantress.

Why does A50 have one redundant modifier? and he’s been being all weird to me since Expresso flip.

He has also never been terrible at reading me.

[Venus and Mars]

i thought Almost's final claim was Desperate. Weak was something he was talking about earlier.

my understand is Weak = die on scum/millers, and Desperate = die on scum/millers, action fails on town. distinct enough.

Desperate - Like Disloyal, but works against Millers and similar. Mod may also make it so where if they would target successfully like if they had a Loyal modifier, they die.

@Chara - go back to my massive quote from 50jp. He says 1 shot recharged weak desperate visitor. So desperate is usually a disloyal modifier, but in this game (according to Titus) is both weak and disloyal. So why add in weak, when desperate is already weak. That's my issue. Either Boon is using the same modifier in different ways in this game and changing its meaning case by case, or 50 has a redundant modifier, or one of 50 and Titus are lying.

BP

How are they using the modifier in different ways? It sounds identical to me.

Weak doesn't fail on town. Desperate does.

Wait, I thought desperate failed on scum?

BP

Take this back. I know what I'm saying, but you confused me. Yes, desperate is different than weak, but if you're desperate, then weak is redundant. Both weak and desperate die if targeting scum. So if your role was desperate (as claimed by A50), then there is no need for the additional modifier of weak, because desperate would have covered that.

BP

I get what you're saying and yeah they're redundant but they aren't the same. If that makes sense.

But isn’t one of them still redundant?

[Chara]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything.

[Venus and Mars]

You can have a town enabler for a scum role. And vice versa.

Just want to throw that out there since it doesn't appear to be that obvious to the peanut gallery. The longer they're both alive increases the likelihood of one flipping red.

That also assumes I believe the claim.

Which I don't, so, there's that.

Extremely unlikely.

Did finish a game not long ago with tracker enabler as a scum role. A50 was there. Mod was also there. So idk about highly unlikely.

It’s possible but it’s still unlikely but I can see it with tracker or any kind of investigative or killing role but with doc. it really makes little sense. Why would scum have a role that is need by that town role, when both roles, tend to be protown? Scum docs aren’t common and neither are scum doc enablers.

[chkflip]

Helps with safe claims, for one.

[Chara]

because it means scum can choose to trade their doc enabling member's life in exchange for dismantling town doctors. or they have a scum doctor (in games with vigilantes/serial killers). hypothetically. i think Frost is probably town, and find it unlikely he is specifically a scum doc enabler. if he's scum i'm sure he's just lying about the role.

[Haggle]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so

not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything

.

+1 to the bolded part. She was asking for the doc heals to get guilties. Now she forgot and says shes not sure if A50 is cleared because of the doc heal? I'm starting to get suspect of Titus.

BP

[Venus and Mars]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything.

Oh okay, yeah so Titus being saved has no bearing on her neighbourize failing. Could she have been blocked? but what then accounts for Creature’s actions failing?

[Venus and Mars]

Oh okay, because I definitely agree with her on the Joan part anyway. What do you think of Dave/Haggle saying that both Titus/A50 can’t be saying the truth wrt to their modifiers because I’m still not understanding that?

they're saying that Almost being Desperate and Weak doesn't make sense because Weak is redundant. weak makes you die on scum, Desperate makes you die on scum but also doesn't work on town. so, having both as Almost claims he does would be pointless, though depending on how trolly Boon is feeling not especially impossible.

since the conversation will only be resolved by Almost checking with Boon and making a statement to clarify his modifiers and what exactly they do, i don't know if it's fruitful now.

Disloyal =/= Desperate (which is what Almost claimed) though. they're definitely different modifiers in the list if you check.

pedit: Joan targeting Titus shouldn't affect her Almost clear, or rather lack thereof. he is confirmed scum by the neighbourizer working. since the neighbourizer didn't work, he's conftown, was not targetable last night, or Titus's action was blocked. her being protected or not shouldn't affect that, since even if Titus was protected from her dying on a scum Almost, her neighbourize should still have worked and given her the guilty on him.
it's the whole reason she asked for doc saves to begin with, in order to get her guilties without dying. so

not sure why Titus said her being saved changed anything

.

+1 to the bolded part. She was asking for the doc heals to get guilties. Now she forgot and says shes not sure if A50 is cleared because of the doc heal? I'm starting to get suspect of Titus.

BP

But wouldn’t it be the height of stupidity for scum!Titus to have asked for doc heals in the first place?

[Chara]

to be fair, she has been mentioning a doc heal as a reason for Almost not to be clear since she claimed, so it's not something she just suddenly said. but it does indeed not line up with the call for doc heals. just never really came up until Haggle brought it up.

pedit: Titus could have been blocked, or Almost is just town, which would also make her neighbourize fail. and there's the third option of Almost being rolestopped or an equivalent like enchantress.

pedit again: i have my own ideas about how to resolve the contradiction from Titus, but i would rather her just comment on it first as i find that the objectively better idea.

[Venus and Mars]

@Titus, why did you think being healed had any bearing on your A50 clear?

[Venus and Mars]

to be fair, she has been mentioning a doc heal as a reason for Almost not to be clear since she claimed, so it's not something she just suddenly said. but it does indeed not line up with the call for doc heals. just never really came up until Haggle brought it up.

pedit: Titus could have been blocked, or Almost is just town, which would also make her neighbourize fail. and there's the third option of Almost being rolestopped or an equivalent like enchantress.

pedit again: i have my own ideas about how to resolve the contradiction from Titus, but i would rather her just comment on it first as i find that the objectively better idea.

Yeah, I don’t understand why scum!Titus would even request doc heals if she was just going to slip about that later. She just probably is just misunderstanding her role.

[Chara]

Drew and Joan outed their hood yesterday.

I am still a desperate neighborizer. So my role only works on scum and/or chkflip. But if I neighborize one, I die.

Tbh, I hate to ask for a doc heal but that makes a lot of sense here. I'll know if I get a guilty and so will my target though.

If I get healed from said kill, then I can out the result. Otherwise, I have a weak town suggestion.

I'm thinking A50 is actually ascetic scum

So Titus, didn’t confitown him then?

No. It's like 95%.

A50 ascetic (but unlikely).
Me being roleblocker on top of desperate.
Doc heal on me last night.

Those are the only ways I see A50 as not town.

the two posts in question for clarity. note in the second Titus is saying she might have been roleblocked, not that she might be a roleblocker herself.

first one she says she'll know if she gets a guilty with a doc heal (through her neighbourizer ability), second she says if she was healed he could be not town (which doesn't work because if he was not town her neighbourizer would have gone through, thus giving her a guilty).

pedit: i do agree, Nancy. still, i think it's definitely worth having Titus clear this up.

[Amrun]

You can have a town enabler for a scum role. And vice versa.

Just want to throw that out there since it doesn't appear to be that obvious to the peanut gallery. The longer they're both alive increases the likelihood of one flipping red.

That also assumes I believe the claim.

Which I don't, so, there's that.

Omg this. I’ve played in games where there was a scum enabler for a town role, and a town enabler for a scum role, sometimes in the same game. That’s if the claim(s) are even true! Wtf is going on here.

[Amrun]

You can have a town enabler for a scum role. And vice versa.

Just want to throw that out there since it doesn't appear to be that obvious to the peanut gallery. The longer they're both alive increases the likelihood of one flipping red.

That also assumes I believe the claim.

Which I don't, so, there's that.

Extremely unlikely.

Did finish a game not long ago with tracker enabler as a scum role. A50 was there. Mod was also there. So idk about highly unlikely.

I rep into this game, for example. Tracker was town, tracker enabler was scum.

[Titus]

@Titus, why did you think being healed had any bearing on your A50 clear?

If I was roleblocked and healed, it would create the illusion of a clear. It's very fucking remote given the desperate modifier but possible.

Drunk Titus says hi!