BooneyToonz XIII: To Boon or Not To Boon - [END]

[Chara]

it is there, Titus.

[Titus]

I'm blind.

Nevermind Boon.

[Chara]

fwiw I think regardless of mech stuff flips is a bad wagon

because there's nothing mechancially implicating him, only preventing him from being mech clear

also his posting got kinda better today

are you townreading him? regardless of mech stuff.
i don't think his posting has gotten any better, but i'm curious as to what you see.

[Venus and Mars]

My theory, which we won't know is accurate until postgame I suppose, is that scum thought they were killing a lover and thus would get a two-fer. That could override killing a doc N1. I don't want to be inconsiderate but it's also important to consider proficiency -- a doc who doesn't yet know who to target is unlikely to be effective in any case.

As for the blocking action, a simple analysis of your EOD position should show that it's likely they thought you would target one of them and that town would figure out what the results meant. It's fairly obvious that if there is an enchantress it isn't (competent) town or we wouldn't have spent all this time discussing it. I'm coming along to the point of view that we do know that your target could be predicted, and that your action could perhaps be manipulated by scum and exploited to "confirm someone as town". Someone who I won't mention rn is "right" in their scumreads but for a fairly poor reason -- or at least they haven't articulated the better reasons.

One other thing I'll bring up since it concerns 50's reads, if scum were informed the game had a Juvenile Delinquent, they would have incentive to want to find out who it was. Was anyone especially suspicious of the miller claim and did that generate lengthy discussion? This piece of evidence might help explain the NK or identify who was exploring that angle, if there was anyone.

So you think scum is informed about the roles?

One specific role.

Juvenile Delinquent?

Only if Nips isn’t scum because he’s really the only one who’d logically have reason to kill Jet otherwise but even then, you’d have to be assuming that scum would know that he was cop enabler. So, how could they possibly know that on N1?

[Titus]

My theory, which we won't know is accurate until postgame I suppose, is that scum thought they were killing a lover and thus would get a two-fer. That could override killing a doc N1. I don't want to be inconsiderate but it's also important to consider proficiency -- a doc who doesn't yet know who to target is unlikely to be effective in any case.

As for the blocking action, a simple analysis of your EOD position should show that it's likely they thought you would target one of them and that town would figure out what the results meant. It's fairly obvious that if there is an enchantress it isn't (competent) town or we wouldn't have spent all this time discussing it. I'm coming along to the point of view that we do know that your target could be predicted, and that your action could perhaps be manipulated by scum and exploited to "confirm someone as town". Someone who I won't mention rn is "right" in their scumreads but for a fairly poor reason -- or at least they haven't articulated the better reasons.

One other thing I'll bring up since it concerns 50's reads, if scum were informed the game had a Juvenile Delinquent, they would have incentive to want to find out who it was. Was anyone especially suspicious of the miller claim and did that generate lengthy discussion? This piece of evidence might help explain the NK or identify who was exploring that angle, if there was anyone.

So you think scum is informed about the roles?

One specific role.

Juvenile Delinquent?

Only if Nips isn’t scum because he’s really the only one who’d logically have reason to kill Jet otherwise but even then, you’d have to be assuming that scum would know that he was cop enabler. So, how could they possibly know that on N1?

By his reluctance to accept chkflip

[davesaz]

I tagged R&J as the delinquent flip incorrectly, EJ.

[davesaz]

Cop enabler is written right into the public definition of the Juvenile Delinquent role. If scum knew there was a JD and could guess who it is, it would immediately be the top priority kill.

[Venus and Mars]

Haggle, Nancy doesn't want Drew anymore because he didn't jump on Joan, i think.

also, misunderstandings exist. someone misunderstanding you does not mean they aren't reading. it's sort of like how someone having a different impression of 2541 does not mean they didn't read the post.

+1

Yes, well that’s why his bs shading is pissing me off, because he’s selectively reading my posts and it’s really not okay, because instead of asking me to clarify, he just unfairly shades me instead.

[Chemist1422]

@A50, Titus and Chemist, did you get a message from the mod that your ability no longer worked?

No

[Haggle]

A50 should check with the mod. The phrasing of mine is pretty clear. My ability works only on the scum faction or people who check as that, but I die if I get a hood.

See, that's how A50s works functionally so it's not a check with the mod thing. The problem is that he also claimed weak in addition to desperate, but given what you're telling us about what desperate means, it's already weak.

BP

[Chemist1422]

fwiw I think regardless of mech stuff flips is a bad wagon

because there's nothing mechancially implicating him, only preventing him from being mech clear

also his posting got kinda better today

are you townreading him? regardless of mech stuff.
i don't think his posting has gotten any better, but i'm curious as to what you see.

ye

I thought his lack of effort D1 was scummy but since he sorta picked it up and is still relaxed I think he’s town and just doesn’t really care about solving that much

[Chara]

chkflip is my favourite player in this game because i don't TR him but i do agree with everything he says. and by favourite i mean i hate this, since i don't want to push someone who is increasing my enjoyment of the game considerably, but i also keep worrying he's scum for it entirely due to my agreeing with it.
and i disagree with all my TRs on things, which makes it worse.

except for RCE i suppose, though it's less a TR and more chk-lite for him. and Amrun is genuinely a TR i'm happy with so there's that.

[Titus]

I can't prove Expressojet doubted chkflip. I remember thinking it was odd though.

Davesaz, I like your theory. Given chkflip wanting to lynch nearly everyone but Nips, maybe you should join me.

[Haggle]

@Titus re: 3949 when you were told Desperate modifier was added, were you also told you die when targeting scum or did you infer that from the definition?

Pedit: well that's interesting. Boon using the same modifier with different definitions?

God if that's what's happening I'm fucking lost. Why the fuck would you add a redundant modifier?

BP

[Titus]

A50 should check with the mod. The phrasing of mine is pretty clear. My ability works only on the scum faction or people who check as that, but I die if I get a hood.

See, that's how A50s works functionally so it's not a check with the mod thing. The problem is that he also claimed weak in addition to desperate, but given what you're telling us about what desperate means, it's already weak.

BP

Yup to a point. I mean there's a few ways that goes down where he could be town, but asking him to double down can't hurt. Weak could be redundant, and I think he mentioned that.

[Chara]

See, that's how A50s works functionally so it's not a check with the mod thing. The problem is that he also claimed weak in addition to desperate, but given what you're telling us about what desperate means, it's already weak.

BP

it is a check with the mod thing, since Almost explicitly said his desperate modifier does

not

make him Weak.

pedit: big old shrug to that, BP. my guesses are Almost misunderstanding, Almost lying, or Boon being a troll. all are possible, but i'm leaning towards troll atm. Titus lying is also possible but i find that one less likely.

[Venus and Mars]

My theory, which we won't know is accurate until postgame I suppose, is that scum thought they were killing a lover and thus would get a two-fer. That could override killing a doc N1. I don't want to be inconsiderate but it's also important to consider proficiency -- a doc who doesn't yet know who to target is unlikely to be effective in any case.

As for the blocking action, a simple analysis of your EOD position should show that it's likely they thought you would target one of them and that town would figure out what the results meant. It's fairly obvious that if there is an enchantress it isn't (competent) town or we wouldn't have spent all this time discussing it. I'm coming along to the point of view that we do know that your target could be predicted, and that your action could perhaps be manipulated by scum and exploited to "confirm someone as town". Someone who I won't mention rn is "right" in their scumreads but for a fairly poor reason -- or at least they haven't articulated the better reasons.

One other thing I'll bring up since it concerns 50's reads, if scum were informed the game had a Juvenile Delinquent, they would have incentive to want to find out who it was. Was anyone especially suspicious of the miller claim and did that generate lengthy discussion? This piece of evidence might help explain the NK or identify who was exploring that angle, if there was anyone.

So you think scum is informed about the roles?

One specific role.

Juvenile Delinquent?

Only if Nips isn’t scum because he’s really the only one who’d logically have reason to kill Jet otherwise but even then, you’d have to be assuming that scum would know that he was cop enabler. So, how could they possibly know that on N1?

By his reluctance to accept chkflip

Ej, pick someone you're town-reading and sheep them.

I would rather not

You mean THIS post?

[Chara]

ye

I thought his lack of effort D1 was scummy but since he sorta picked it up and is still relaxed I think he’s town and just doesn’t really care about solving that much

he is definitely still relaxed which is a point, but i don't think his effort has picked up. that's when he is posting, i'm not referring to a lack of activity.

[Haggle]

Haggle, Nancy doesn't want Drew anymore because he didn't jump on Joan, i think.

also, misunderstandings exist. someone misunderstanding you does not mean they aren't reading. it's sort of like how someone having a different impression of 2541 does not mean they didn't read the post.

+1

Yes, well that’s why his bs shading is pissing me off, because he’s selectively reading my posts and it’s really not okay, because instead of asking me to clarify, he just unfairly shades me instead.

Nancy, it's because when I've asked you to clarify you told me you weren't answering questions. Fuck I'm gonna ignore your slot for a bit.

BP

[davesaz]

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

The VCA reason for doing this was too much of a leap without any scum flips. The D1 lurk was a somewhat better reason given the previous game (LNT?) where he D1 lurked as scum. What triggers this for me is realizing it was obvious who 50 would target from his D1 posting, and realizing that would yield a guilty if Nips is scum. Scum went to the trouble to protect Nips from 50's role.

[Chara]

you know what, sure. i still don't have an alternative.
VOTE: Nips

[Venus and Mars]

@A50, Titus and Chemist, did you get a message from the mod that your ability no longer worked?

No

Well, even if enchantress isn’t confirmed, no reason A50 couldn’t have been alien jk’d or a combination of rolestopped and roleblocked. We know Creature’s actions failed, which has to mean either he or A50 were targeted, unless A50 was lying about not being aesetic which seems unlikely. And only A50 claimed D1, not Creature, so it’s extremely unlikely Creature was the one targeted.

[Venus and Mars]

Haggle, Nancy doesn't want Drew anymore because he didn't jump on Joan, i think.

also, misunderstandings exist. someone misunderstanding you does not mean they aren't reading. it's sort of like how someone having a different impression of 2541 does not mean they didn't read the post.

+1

Yes, well that’s why his bs shading is pissing me off, because he’s selectively reading my posts and it’s really not okay, because instead of asking me to clarify, he just unfairly shades me instead.

Nancy, it's because when I've asked you to clarify you told me you weren't answering questions. Fuck I'm gonna ignore your slot for a bit.

BP

I’m not answering things I’ve already explained. Probably better to let Hectic talk to me because it seems we are continually misunderstanding each other.

[davesaz]

I’m not answering things I’ve already explained.

This is one of the things that causes unnecessary friction in games.
If there is someone who doesn't understand, then you have not explained. Answering questions is the only right thing to do.

[Chara]

sometimes the wording someone used is confusing, or the player just didn't get it that time, and restating it differently can help.
if Boon refused to clarify ever because he answered once and we found it confusing, that would be a problem.