Newbie 1979 | Good Jams | (Game Over)

[dsjstr]

i said in the post why im willing to vote for him now....

on top of my change of perspective of a couple of billys post i think flippy is clearly not committed to playing the game or cant find the words to be confident in posting without coming across as mafia.

One of the same reasons i sused you out as mafia in my mind. Yes you have began to post more, but i havent seen many post i would consider townie. You posted a townie post and when i told you i thought it was townie you posted something i seen as scummy. So it kinda took my hope back out of you. I am less sure about you as i said earlier you did change your posting style, but to me the town quality of the post have barely gone up.

Was it scummy because I said I wasn't trying to appease you?

[IMASPY]

i said in the post why im willing to vote for him now....

on top of my change of perspective of a couple of billys post i think flippy is clearly not committed to playing the game or cant find the words to be confident in posting without coming across as mafia.

One of the same reasons i sused you out as mafia in my mind. Yes you have began to post more, but i havent seen many post i would consider townie. You posted a townie post and when i told you i thought it was townie you posted something i seen as scummy. So it kinda took my hope back out of you. I am less sure about you as i said earlier you did change your posting style, but to me the town quality of the post have barely gone up.

Was it scummy because I said I wasn't trying to appease you?

I dont think its important to tell you right now why i thought it was scummy. It cant be explained with just clicking a quote on one sentence at this point. Im factoring in everyones post by this point in the day. Day 1 is a team game so no one persons post is in a vacuum. Mafia can talk to each other privately during day 1 according to the sample role PM's.

[dsjstr]

Masons can also talk privately, what do you think about the speed in which the vote one Emporer was built. That was my main reason why I wasn't going to join. A reason why so many people would join a wagon is because they were comfortable with the vote.

[dsjstr]

*on

And I meant mafia would join it because they were comfortable with the vote.

[IMASPY]

I mean i can understand people voting for billy now because really only the mafia know at this point. Same reason i understood why people were bwing on dawoodle. I dont think anyone is scum for jumping on a BW. It would be scum to sneak in a hammer. However, if someone has jumped on a BW and done no probing or scum reading of that person at all the whole game then i have alittle bit of a problem. No one has come out and told me if they think not killing on the first day can be good but it seems like everyone wants to kill for the most part. So i cant put too much stock in votes for scum reads.

[dsjstr]

In my opinion with this setup, not killing only helps the mafia. We also can't really know pairings unless we kill and mafia could just choose someone who isn't involved with anyone. Guess that's good for you and me Spy

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Not too hot on entering a back-and-forth with L. Blight this close to the deadline (also because given the time of our posts we are probably on very different timezones). But I'll answer.

430
"The context here is this: I said dsjstr's playstyle is nothing like his previous (town) game, and he responded by saying people thought his progression was weird in that game. Is it not natural to question, therefore, whether he has intentionally changed playstyle as a result? It's an entirely relevant question, so why are you trying to paint it as though I'm setting him up?"

1. You don't see how asking that question to a guy who was town on a previous game and now changed his playstyle leads to a bunch of scummy answers who could come regardless of alignment? Let's give two examples.
A: "Yes, people thought my progression was weird, so I changed my playstyle this time." - "So you're more concerned this game at how people react instead of using your natural progression? 235. Look! There's precedence. How cool and unique! There's no way that DJ could've answered that.
B: "No, I have not changed my playstyle, I don't know what you're talking about." - "I dislike this reaction. This is not true. meta meta meta meta meta read a little shade at the end." boom.
If this is such an important question for you, I'd think you actually would try to, you know, get an answer. So where's the answer? Where's the meta read? Nowhere to be found.

"And given dsjstr's answer that he is TR'ing me, how can you say my question was useless? It produced previously unknown information."

2. It was a read given by someone who had just said his reads were bullshit. A person who you were townreading AND was giving vague statements already. Did you a expect a case against you?
I don't know if this is just survivalistic town or scum attitude, but any read given by DJ on that situation could've been countered on that situation. All while pushing his lynch.

"So at least one of me/dsjstr has to be scum, so you go ahead and vote Flippy? This backs up my suspicion that your 'no way this is TvT' was all hot air."

3. after talking about context, you should at least think as for why I voted for Flippy?

but i digress.
not interested on l. blight right now. Flippy should catch up soon, and then we will have new content to read, instead of things that happned ten pages ago.

1. No, I completely disagree that it leads to scummy answers either way, and I don't like how you're trying to paint it that way. There is nothing inherently wrong with a new player intentionally changing their play style - I'd say it's quite natural. You could literally make the point you're making about any question asked in this game - anything can be spun negatively. I'd actually completely forgotten that dsjstr ignored that question. He has done that to me a good few times already this game.

2. I wasn't TR'ing dsjstr? I was clearly SR'ing him by the time I asked him that question. No, I didn't expect a case against me, but I was still interested in what his anwer would be. Why must it be one extreme or the other? Yes, it's true that any read given my dsjstr could have been countered in that situation, but could is the key word - you're presuming I asked the question in bad faith when a clear motive exists in asking that question to advance my read/create further information.

3. You hadn't explained your Flippy read until after my post, and it still follows that if either me or dsjstr must be scum, then one of us must be lynched today fypov - that's if you truly believe in what you were saying.

[Luca Blight]

dsjstr, a couple of questions:

Have you intentionally changed your play style from the previous game?

What are your thoughts on the interaction between Icon and myself?

[Luca Blight]

I'm getting bad vibes from dsjstr in his recent interaction with Spy - the way he questions him but then quickly reassures Spy that he doesn't SR him, it's like he's trying to be on his good side while looking productive.

Dsjstr isn't being productive at all, however - it seems as though he's waiting to see what cards are lain before he commits himself.

[dsjstr]

I am going to hold off on answering about my play style, one of my two other games is close to concluding but i can't talk about it yet.

I have not associated you you and Icon, I would have to reread the thread but I would never have had that idea if you didn't ask me about it.

[dsjstr]

It's not productive to try and prob someone? I didn't find anything else worthy of being probbed, I just wanted to let people know that I was TRing him. Should I only prob people I SR?

[Luca Blight]

I dislike Blatant and disagree with a lot of lucca's points, but I think he is a lesser evil atm. I'm feeling worse about dsjtr and Icon, and still need to review Poyzin. I'm leaning town on dawoodle if only due to the PoE of having too many scum reads. Insomnia and Spy are the only two I can TR with any confidence right now.

@dsj:

I'm talking about my argument with Icon on the other page. I know you read it, but you haven't commented on it at all. What are your thoughts?

[dsjstr]

See, this is some townie shit and good reads and thoughts. This is what I'm looking for.

I am willing to vote Billy man, I don't give a damn if he subbed out, that slot is cursed, like 3 people changed it. Let's give the mod an easy time and stop looking for replacement. Put that slot in the grave.

VOTE: Billy slot

This vote on Billy seems a little odd, at least the reasoning behind it. His previous vote was on someone who he though that getting lynched would have provided useful information for other slots. I would still like to hear from poyzin it looked like he just posted a read list for the sake of having one. I realize that voting for people because of their activity is actually not good reasoning, I would say these are my top two scum reads currently.

I'm waiting for a response from poyzin so yes in a way you are correct.

[dsjstr]

Luca why are you hesitant to place your vote on me?

[Luca Blight]

It's not productive to try and prob someone? I didn't find anything else worthy of being probbed, I just wanted to let people know that I was TRing him. Should I only prob people I SR?

No, you shouldn't only probe a SR, but what is the point of probing someone and then hastily adding '

I TR you btw

'? How does that help you in terms of information? All it does it decrease the pressure on the player you're probing, and it feels as though you're trying to avoid conflict,

[Luca Blight]

Luca why are you hesitant to place your vote on me?

Because I strongly SR you and Icon, and to a slightly lesser extent lucca, and need to review Poyzin. I'm figuring out which way I'm leaning.

[Luca Blight]

@Poyzin:

Why do you TR Icon so strongly?

[Luca Blight]

Let's take a look at Icon's interactions with/posts about dsjstr this game.

dsjstr is probs town, tonal read tho

I think you are trying to get the vote off of dawoodle because the two of you are scum so I am definitely not changing my vote.

I like this read

I don't feel good about this lynch on Flippy. It seems like people were easily willing to join even though they had other sus. I am

not

going to give intent to hammer. Sure Billy and Flippy posted then disappeared. So has BS, Luca, Icon, and myself. Those come across as the obvious ones to me but thinking about it more we have all done that at least a little bit.

Also, as djester here said, when a wagon happens so fast and with so little resistance, that's usually a pretty bad sign

That is literally it - three faintly positive posts about one of the most contentious slots in the game, and the first one was prompted by me. This is not real sorting and Icon has arrived at his conclusion way too easily.

[Luca Blight]

He's done the same with the Blatant slot as well:

Town

VOTE: Poyzin

I call your bluff!

VOTE: Insomnia

I call... something.

VOTE: dsjstr

Now the votes have come full circle, and I may rest satisfied.


Regardless, hey everybody! This is my first game on mafiascum, and I'm glad to be here! Do we want to ask questions right now or no? I'd be happy to answer either way.

That's towny post.

I like this post from Blatant. Noticed it got scumread for it, but what does scum have to gain from calling this out?

VOTE: Blatant Scum

I dislike his opening the most.

Btw I've lost my phone so will be

V/LA

for the next week or so, as I can only post when on a computer.

Why? What's scummy about it?

Enchantress likes dsjstr's probing thus far.

She also says that she's willing to accept that if Poyzin is telling the truth, then he'll be hard to found as town because his posts go through a pre-filter, which would come off as scummy to whoever's tone reading.

In fact, she says we should probably probe into Blatant Scum for town reading Poyzin's entrance, because I think that might be a TMI read. Poyzin's post should've felt weird to most towns. It didn't to Blatant Scum, he actually read it fairly townie.

I like the dude that liked my questioning. IMASPY dude.

VOTE: Blatant Scum

This is L-2

. Proceed carefully.

Town core of djstr - IMASPY - me - luca blight

who next

I could see the townread. I like the callout. You think I'm scum too now?

This one reads more like white-knighting - coming in and playing the hero. He did the same as this in a previous scum game where he came in and white-knighted Town!Wimpy when he was being heavily scumread.

[Luca Blight]

After Icon's return to the game, this was what increased my suspicion:

Spoiler: These two posts are lacking in substance

I think you are trying to get the vote off of dawoodle because the two of you are scum so I am definitely not changing my vote.

I like this read

He’s actually gonna get locked if dawoodle flips scum so I don’t want to focus that

I think your attention should be on the two wagons. Dawoodle has done nothing but ask me questions, his town read, and didn’t sort any of the other people.

Town look for scum, not town.

If he says otherwise, refer back to his wall where he gave the equivalent of 3 scum reads in proportion to 2 town reads.

This is just inherently wrong on all accounts. Bad town look for scum, good town look for both. It's AT LEAST as important to find fellow town then it is to find actual scum.

I think Icon has a good chance of being scum, but it’s based mainly on gut so far.

cool story bro, nice shade

First, I am enjoying this game. And the fact that it's a game is part of the reason I am generally calm in my responses. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure how town is supposed to be, but I think I am gaining some valuable insights from being painted as scum so early.

I still think Billy is scum, and once a replacement is found, I will likely put my vote on them. However, I do not feel comfortable voting for someone who is out on replacement. (I realize this is slightly hypocritical with my vote for Blatant and his lack of activity, but my vote was placed during RVS before he disappeared. I will reevaluate that if he is sent out for replacement too or if enough other people pile on that I think there might be an early lynch.) Having said that, I think that my observations and opinions will be taken more seriously when I flip green because townieness is linchpin of my argument and I don't know how to demonstrate that without dying.

This is a reasonable response tho.

I'm also strongly opposing a lynch of the Flippy slot - it has specifically requested time to catchup yesterday

there's time left

Strongly opposed to lynching your biggest SR? And again, Icon is doing what he thinks he should be doing, and it feels like he's giving a stock answer rather than a genuine assessment of the situation. It doesn't feel genuine at all.

I don't feel good about this lynch on Flippy. It seems like people were easily willing to join even though they had other sus. I am

not

going to give intent to hammer. Sure Billy and Flippy posted then disappeared. So has BS, Luca, Icon, and myself. Those come across as the obvious ones to me but thinking about it more we have all done that at least a little bit.

Also, as djester here said, when a wagon happens so fast and with so little resistance, that's usually a pretty bad sign

Lazy analysis - if the slot is as scummy as you thought it was then maybe the wagon is warranted? Why are you presuming the wagon is bad?

UNVOTE:

apparently i'm part of the wagon lol

Oops, forgot about that.

VOTE: dawoodle

What should I do now? Oh yeah, I vaguely remember dawoodle was being suspected, that'll do.

I have a high opinion of Icon's Town game, and this doesn't come close. I think this is my preferred lynch for today.

VOTE: Icon

[Luca Blight]

Another point against Icon: until I called him out he hadn't sorted me at all. Why? I suspect it was because of this:

Not getting any Town vibes from Icon so far which is odd as I usually TR him really easily.

I let it be known after his original catch-up that I wasn't liking what I was seeing, and I suspect Icon waited to see how my read would develop before laying his own cards. He didn't want to TR me early in case I continued to SR him and it put him in a weak position to reverse his read, and he didn't want to SR me early creating needless conflict.

[Luca Blight]

Icon has also not said a single thing about Poyzin this game.

Until I called him out he'd basically chosen his two targets (Billy and dawoodle) and either ignored everyone else or vaguely put them as Town. I reiterate that this is very unlike his usual Town game, where he is inquisitive of everyone and really proactive.

[insomnia]

Bruh we’re lynching Flippy

[Iconeum]

Hi Luca

thanks for openwolfing

If we don't lynch you today, we will do so tomorrow.

[Iconeum]

Bruh we’re lynching Flippy

why?