Newbie 1979 | Good Jams | (Game Over)

[IMASPY]

See, this is some townie shit and good reads and thoughts. This is what I'm looking for.

I am willing to vote Billy man, I don't give a damn if he subbed out, that slot is cursed, like 3 people changed it. Let's give the mod an easy time and stop looking for replacement. Put that slot in the grave.

VOTE: Billy slot

This vote on Billy seems a little odd, at least the reasoning behind it. His previous vote was on someone who he though that getting lynched would have provided useful information for other slots. I would still like to hear from poyzin it looked like he just posted a read list for the sake of having one. I realize that voting for people because of their activity is actually not good reasoning, I would say these are my top two scum reads currently.

In this post who are you saying are your top two scum reads? It is not clear to me that you are calling anyone scum or naming anyone as scum.

[clidd]

Ok.

I would like to thank for the opportunity to be playing here. Although i was not able to enter the game earlier, i believe that we can work together to reverse the disadvantage of the first day, and consequently, convert all the information already acquired into paths for better reads. That said, i'll share what i've understood from the game so far:

When the day started, the random voting stage took place, encouraging the first interactions between players. Most of these posts seemed to try to reach a point of orientation, common among people who are still learning the mechanics, as admitted in the posts 21, 23 and 28. At this point, i concluded that it would be necessary to split my opinions on the behavior of each one, so i organized individual points:

Billy Pilgrim

- His first post 81 suggests an alignment association between the behavior of Blatant Scum in post 20, based on other matches. Which, for me, does not have cohesion if we consider that we are playing in a newbie game, therefore, it is completely acceptable posts helping new players. Apart from this post, in particular, i believe that his playing style was simple, more direct and objective, something that i consider to be a

Towny characteristic

.

Blatant Scum

- He's very vague in everything he does and says, it's easy to mistake him for a scum. Given the inaccuracy of my read about him, i judge as null.

Dawoodle

-

Hardworking, open-minded and stable. I liked his posts, especially 48, where he gives an introductory about his reads, 164, where he isn't afraid to maintain his posture and demand answers, and post 302, where he shows great resilience to argue without being too aggressive, something that normally new players and SE, as scums, do not do, considering that they rarely go far in the questioning sense because they prefer a safer game.

Townread

.

Dsjstr

- Similar situation to Blatant Scum. The difference is that he seems to expect to be lynched, and because of that, he always tries to emphasize that fact in an extremly wifom-friendly way. This is distinguishable in posts 191, 331 and 413. I don't understand why he considers the possibility of being lynched as a good thing.

Emperor flippyNips

- Very low effort, can be anything, but more likely scum according to my opinion, since they have a private chat to interact.

Iconeum

- Shares the same objectivity as Billy Pilgrim, but in a less detailed way. I feel some traces of honesty in her lines, far away from anything suggestively biased. Townread.

IMASPY

- Similar to Iconeum, but not in her level of authenticity. This does not necessarily make it null, considering the significant effort i noticed in his lines, but given the game situation, i will put him as undefined, not null.

Insomnia

- This player is controversial. I mean, i admire the experience and notion of game he has, especially in the deductive part through reads, but it can also be used in another way. I feel like he has a lot of social deception experience, mainly because of the way the structures his thoughts and imposes his presence in the game. I am not even considering the misslynch, because even good towns make mistakes, but i believe that it is necessary to be extra careful with him, since whatever the course of the game, he will be able to act proactively to ensure his victory. For that reason, i mark him as undefined.

I also found a contradiction in his post 74.

Looks scummy but town do scummy things anyway. He couldn’t even hammer because there’s not enough votes on anyone.

Right now I’m focused on daw though, he definitely has faulty assumptions that can be made only if he has our roles. If he’s town then he’s doing reads for no reason and is trying to match things already supposing that we’re town, which is bad.

But right now I’m tempted to say he’s probably scum. A town wouldn’t assume stuff from posts, they want concrete evidence.

''A town wouldn’t assume stuff from posts, they want concrete evidence''

Presuming things because of a post isn't a scum attitude, mainly because there are players who use their guts to make other people easier to read, while others use their perception of the elements around them. Like it or not, we also end up doing it unconsciously, regardless of the alignement.

You can ask questions if you so desire, however, there’s not really much to go on. I’ll start it out by saying I feel like your RVS vote is weird and was thought too much about, as if you wanted to create a good image. The Enchantress has noticed this try hardy intro post and will take it into account when looking at your posts from now on.

What questions did you want to ask, though?

'' I’ll start it out by saying I feel like your RVS vote is weird and was thought too much about, as if you wanted to create a good image ''.

When considering that his vote is strange and that he wants to create a good image with it, no concrete evidence is being used, but an intuitive interpretation of the post is being used. So you are

assuming

that he acted in a certain way according to your point of view. In that case, you are doing exactly what you said was wrong for a town to do. Anyway, i believe that we can talk as the day progresses.

Luca Blight

- Objective, but constant and cohesive in his lines. Townread.

Poyzin

- Neutral posture, reasonably thoughtful and demonstrates a concern with the progress of the game. Townread.

[clidd]

Emperor flippyNips

didn't play as well, so he kind of asked to be lynched. It is nobody's fault, considering that I, in the same situation, would repeat the lynch. In fact, I would like to discuss more before entering the voting stage, so each one will have a chance to speak.

[IMASPY]

@clidd have you not reach Lucca's portion of post yet?

[IMASPY]

That is a fair point clidd VOTE: Unvote

[clidd]

I saw it now, you can disregard that part.

[insomnia]

if he's town then sort in

poyzin - dsjstr - and uhhh

dawoodle ?

So why these three?

You’re the least town.

But given mafia left me alive here I’ll actually turn myself into a wim machine and figure it out.

Nobody should blame themselves for the Flippy lynch by the way.

[insomnia]

yea i agree.. we need to get down to 1 mafia before we start talking about final 3. Im calling dsjstr and poyzin maf this game.. if im wrong ill never play here again

What warrants the level of confidence in this post? Do you have any compelling evidence?

[insomnia]

Clidd, why’d you spend more than 1/4 of your wall dedicating it to an essential null read? (Me)

[insomnia]

Actually, closer to half of it.

I’ll get down on PC and analyse everything.

Eventually.

[insomnia]

Also, was that wall made before you entered the game? It has flippy and billy there.

[Poyzin]

In my hiatus, I had time to look over some game stuffs, but I will stay brief. Insomnia is still my highest town read. I’m less inclined to believe that Ima is scum, but they haven’t done anything that looks particularity good, and all of their content could reasonably be faked.

[clidd]

Clidd, why’d you spend more than 1/4 of your wall dedicating it to an essential null read? (Me)

You have, precisely, the exceptional amount of 111 posts on this topic, and seems to has the support of the majority. Also, it is possible to say that your participation is the most active among the players. That said, it is worthwhile to try to confirm as soon as possible if you are really with us, or if you are manipulating the game in your favor. For that, it is necessary to draw your attention directly.

The game tends to be significantly more fluid if you are town.

Also, was that wall made before you entered the game? It has flippy and billy there.

As soon as i confirmed, i did a brief reading of the events of the beginning until the middle, before the announcement of the mod about both players, and started typing.

Actually, closer to half of it.

I’ll get down on PC and analyse everything.

Eventually.

Im a little tired from my previous game, in mental sense, so my post 676 does not represent my complete analysis, but only a summary.

[clidd]

I will be back in the afternoon.

[insomnia]

Clidd, why are you town reading Luca for cohesion and town reading Billy for the lack of it?

[insomnia]

There's been so many replacements that I honestly don't even know who the fuck is who.

This game's an honest wreck.

[eth0s]

Official Vote Count 2.01

Then the door was open and the wind appeared
The candles blew then disappeared
The curtains flew then he appeared, saying don't be afraid

(Don't Fear) The Reaper - Blue Öyster Cult,

Agents Of Fortune

YT Link

Lynching

With 7 living players it takes 4 votes to lynch.

dsjstr

(1): dsjstr

Not Voting

(6): Iconeum, IMASPY, Poyzin, dawoodle, clidd, insomnia

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-01-31 19:40:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[insomnia]

Blatant Scum - He's very vague in everything he does and says, it's easy to mistake him for a scum. Given the inaccuracy of my read about him, i judge as null.

What made you believe that he wasn't just actual scum? Like, how did you distinguish "he's scum" from "oh, wait, he's just too scummy to be scum"?

[insomnia]

Spoiler: Big ass case coming at you

I think the kill only makes sense from a dsjstr scum perspective. Luca had meta with him and kept on pushing him. Luca wasn't really a universal town read, several people were scum reading his lack of activity, Iconeum tunneled him for a bit. It's just a thoughtless kill.

I am tempted to say that the flippy lynch was all town. I don;t think scum were on it at all.

Ds's positioning yesterday and how he started scum reading us for the votes on Flippy prior to him even flipping adds to this theory. Ds was gonna set someone on the wagon regardless. I think that EoD only makes sense for him if he knows before hand that Flippy is town.

I think I would've killed Iconeum to be honest. He's the only one that knows my meta here.

If dsjstr is a scum, then I'm 80% confident that the wagon on Billy was all town.

==========

Emperor flippyNips (5):

insomnia

,

dawoodle

,

Luca Blight

,

IMASPY

,

Iconeum

IMASPY (1):

Poyzin

Not Voting (3):

dsjstr,

Emperor flippyNips

,

lucca261

I will proceed by sorting the neutrals (yellow colour). I honestly think Iconeum never flips scum here, his interaction with Luca reeked of towniness and lacked TMI. I'll eat my hat if he's scum here, and he'll have my utmost respect. I'm just never re-considering Iconeum here. I'm willing to lose to a him scum world.

Poyzin I'm ambivalent on, but I'm actually leaning town on, for some reason. I think it was mostly his reads and his tone, but I'll reconsider it with the green flips in mind.

I have a hard time discerning whether clidd is actually scared of my scum skills or if he's setting me up for today. I think it would be dumb to do so, but I can totally see why he'd do it. His reluctance to come to a conclusion and investing a lot more time on me, a seemingly null-read, is raising some concerns, with a lowercase c, because it isn't really

that

serious. and probably won't regard when analysing him anyway.

dawoodle...ah man. This guy. There's just some stuff, upon a re-read, that just don't make sense to post as a wolf. I'll expound below on each one of these people.

=========

Poyzin : Reading his #236, it starts out by saying "I can see some sense in what you're saying", but then the whole progression within that post is reaching the conclusion of "however, I think he's town". This is weird, because, I can't tell what he wanted to achieve with this post? He's not town reading Luca explicitly for his thought process, but he's not explicitly scum reading dj either? It appeared to me as if he was willing to hear Luca out on his reasoning, but the post just ends in this denial of his initial scum read of djstr, therefore, contradicting what he was saying, although, technically, he was pacing Luca's reality for a minute there. I think this interaction is a big minus for Poyzin here.

Same with his #237, he's not really scum reading, nor town reading spy here for his push, he just disagrees with it. Good, what does that tell about spy's alignment here? I just wished to have seen more probing there.

And then, from #258 onward, he starts tunneling on Spy. His #258 I really dislike, because it's pushing on something that looks scummy, rather than something that will actually make Spy more likely to flip scum here. Unvoting and re-voting isn't a serious scum reading reason, especially for someone that played one year of mafia. For his level, this is fairly shallow.

#318 is what I'd expect wolf players to make. It reads to me as if he chose his scum read for the day and will push on it regardless. I think the stuff he's pushing spy for doesn't warrant the level of confidence that Poyzin is trying to show off there. I think it's fake bravado.

Needless to say it just keeps getting worse and worse, Poyzin is probably scum here and will most likely be my vote for today. It's my most confident read as of right now.

(If he's scum, I'll quote the post where I say Poyzin is scum for his entry post and will say "I told you")

As for potential spew, I think that in his #370 he spews dawoodle town, which is good for me. That null-read, at that stage of the game, is essentially saying "I sorta town read the guy, but if push comes down to shove, I'd be down voting him" which isn't a read you'd give on your partner. I'll most likely come back to this.
==============

dawoodle :

Despite his wall, I must admit that I felt like his opening was townie. Especially post #46, I don't think I've ever seen a wolf addressing the "role card" thing. I'm sure it was addressed at some time, but, in the context where dawoodle is a newbie (if he is, I don't remember him saying he had a past experience), I don't see him saying that, almost at all.

I feel like a massive dumbass for scum reading dawoodle on his wall and then never reconsidering. Looking at him now without my bias is fairly easy to follow through his thoughts and his scum reads make sense.

His little jump backs at me make sense because I was essentially ignoring him, and even though he was town reading me for my case on him, he was more concerned with the fact I wasn't addressing his genuine thoughts, which is a more townie mentality than not, because he was paranoid and sensed my lack of trying to understand his PoV.

I'll stop at his #184 - I get the overall idea, it makes a lot of sense from his PoV, and not to mention, it would be extra dumb to convey that idea like he did "this is assuming i'm a villager", which a wolf would never even think about posting.

I think dawoodle's town here, so I'll move on with the last slot that I have a null on.

=============

I will do this in two separate sections, lucca and clidd.

a) lucca

I really liked his entrance.

There's nothing really to comment on, it looked like he seemed to reach the same point as me, which was that ds and poyzin are likely team mates. The only thing that I don't get is his votes, like, he focuses on some stuff and then his votes are like throw out the window, like the analysis was never there in the first place.

Apart from that, this dude is townie as all hell. I would fear his scum game if I ever played with him again and he was scum this game.

b) clidd

there are some points that I still want clidd to address, but all in all, I think he's town, virtue of his slot that was the epitome of towniness. I am waiting more from him, but, overall...

Clidd is probably also town.

=======

Let's try this again with the missing puzzle pieces.

Emperor flippyNips (5):

insomnia

,

dawoodle

,

Luca Blight

,

IMASPY

,

Iconeum

IMASPY (1):

Poyzin

Not Voting (3):

dsjstr

,

Emperor flippyNips

,

lucca261

======

Final scum team,

dsjstr

and

Poyzin

.

TL;DR Poyzin and dsjstr are the scum team.

VOTE: Poyzin

[insomnia]

If I'm wrong on any of the non-voters and Poyzin, there was a wolf on flippy, and it was most likely IMASPY.

[insomnia]

yea i agree.. we need to get down to 1 mafia before we start talking about final 3. Im calling dsjstr and poyzin maf this game.. if im wrong ill never play here again

What warrants the level of confidence in this post? Do you have any compelling evidence?

Spoiler: Big ass case coming at you

I think the kill only makes sense from a dsjstr scum perspective. Luca had meta with him and kept on pushing him. Luca wasn't really a universal town read, several people were scum reading his lack of activity, Iconeum tunneled him for a bit. It's just a thoughtless kill.

I am tempted to say that the flippy lynch was all town. I don;t think scum were on it at all.

Ds's positioning yesterday and how he started scum reading us for the votes on Flippy prior to him even flipping adds to this theory. Ds was gonna set someone on the wagon regardless. I think that EoD only makes sense for him if he knows before hand that Flippy is town.

I think I would've killed Iconeum to be honest. He's the only one that knows my meta here.

If dsjstr is a scum, then I'm 80% confident that the wagon on Billy was all town.

==========

Emperor flippyNips (5):

insomnia

,

dawoodle

,

Luca Blight

,

IMASPY

,

Iconeum

IMASPY (1):

Poyzin

Not Voting (3):

dsjstr,

Emperor flippyNips

,

lucca261

I will proceed by sorting the neutrals (yellow colour). I honestly think Iconeum never flips scum here, his interaction with Luca reeked of towniness and lacked TMI. I'll eat my hat if he's scum here, and he'll have my utmost respect. I'm just never re-considering Iconeum here. I'm willing to lose to a him scum world.

Poyzin I'm ambivalent on, but I'm actually leaning town on, for some reason. I think it was mostly his reads and his tone, but I'll reconsider it with the green flips in mind.

I have a hard time discerning whether clidd is actually scared of my scum skills or if he's setting me up for today. I think it would be dumb to do so, but I can totally see why he'd do it. His reluctance to come to a conclusion and investing a lot more time on me, a seemingly null-read, is raising some concerns, with a lowercase c, because it isn't really

that

serious. and probably won't regard when analysing him anyway.

dawoodle...ah man. This guy. There's just some stuff, upon a re-read, that just don't make sense to post as a wolf. I'll expound below on each one of these people.

=========

Poyzin : Reading his #236, it starts out by saying "I can see some sense in what you're saying", but then the whole progression within that post is reaching the conclusion of "however, I think he's town". This is weird, because, I can't tell what he wanted to achieve with this post? He's not town reading Luca explicitly for his thought process, but he's not explicitly scum reading dj either? It appeared to me as if he was willing to hear Luca out on his reasoning, but the post just ends in this denial of his initial scum read of djstr, therefore, contradicting what he was saying, although, technically, he was pacing Luca's reality for a minute there. I think this interaction is a big minus for Poyzin here.

Same with his #237, he's not really scum reading, nor town reading spy here for his push, he just disagrees with it. Good, what does that tell about spy's alignment here? I just wished to have seen more probing there.

And then, from #258 onward, he starts tunneling on Spy. His #258 I really dislike, because it's pushing on something that looks scummy, rather than something that will actually make Spy more likely to flip scum here. Unvoting and re-voting isn't a serious scum reading reason, especially for someone that played one year of mafia. For his level, this is fairly shallow.

#318 is what I'd expect wolf players to make. It reads to me as if he chose his scum read for the day and will push on it regardless. I think the stuff he's pushing spy for doesn't warrant the level of confidence that Poyzin is trying to show off there. I think it's fake bravado.

Needless to say it just keeps getting worse and worse, Poyzin is probably scum here and will most likely be my vote for today. It's my most confident read as of right now.

(If he's scum, I'll quote the post where I say Poyzin is scum for his entry post and will say "I told you")

As for potential spew, I think that in his #370 he spews dawoodle town, which is good for me. That null-read, at that stage of the game, is essentially saying "I sorta town read the guy, but if push comes down to shove, I'd be down voting him" which isn't a read you'd give on your partner. I'll most likely come back to this.
==============

dawoodle :

Despite his wall, I must admit that I felt like his opening was townie. Especially post #46, I don't think I've ever seen a wolf addressing the "role card" thing. I'm sure it was addressed at some time, but, in the context where dawoodle is a newbie (if he is, I don't remember him saying he had a past experience), I don't see him saying that, almost at all.

I feel like a massive dumbass for scum reading dawoodle on his wall and then never reconsidering. Looking at him now without my bias is fairly easy to follow through his thoughts and his scum reads make sense.

His little jump backs at me make sense because I was essentially ignoring him, and even though he was town reading me for my case on him, he was more concerned with the fact I wasn't addressing his genuine thoughts, which is a more townie mentality than not, because he was paranoid and sensed my lack of trying to understand his PoV.

I'll stop at his #184 - I get the overall idea, it makes a lot of sense from his PoV, and not to mention, it would be extra dumb to convey that idea like he did "this is assuming i'm a villager", which a wolf would never even think about posting.

I think dawoodle's town here, so I'll move on with the last slot that I have a null on.

=============

I will do this in two separate sections, lucca and clidd.

a) lucca

I really liked his entrance.

There's nothing really to comment on, it looked like he seemed to reach the same point as me, which was that ds and poyzin are likely team mates. The only thing that I don't get is his votes, like, he focuses on some stuff and then his votes are like throw out the window, like the analysis was never there in the first place.

Apart from that, this dude is townie as all hell. I would fear his scum game if I ever played with him again and he was scum this game.

b) clidd

there are some points that I still want clidd to address, but all in all, I think he's town, virtue of his slot that was the epitome of towniness. I am waiting more from him, but, overall...

Clidd is probably also town.

=======

Let's try this again with the missing puzzle pieces.

Emperor flippyNips (5):

insomnia

,

dawoodle

,

Luca Blight

,

IMASPY

,

Iconeum

IMASPY (1):

Poyzin

Not Voting (3):

dsjstr

,

Emperor flippyNips

,

lucca261

======

Final scum team,

dsjstr

and

Poyzin

.

TL;DR Poyzin and dsjstr are the scum team.

VOTE: Poyzin

This is really funny in hindsight lmfao

[insomnia]

Because I have nothing to do, I'll elaborate a bit more on the NKA.

spy, ico, dsjstr, poyzin have all interacted with Luca Blight.

Out of all of them, dsjstr had meta with Luca Blight. Nobody else did have meta with Luca.

Out of all of them, dsjstr was leaning town on him the most, perhaps because he wanted to pocket him, because he knew his meta. The rest were actually questioning his lack of activity.

So, the kill doesn;t make sense from an iconeum / spy point of view. Luca wasn't even an universally town read player regardless, so it doesn't make sense going for him. Unless, there's an ulterior motive, that iconeum and spy don't have. Only ds does.

[insomnia]

Some player, at some point, made a point in a game I was playing...I believe it was chennisden. He did NKA in a way that I've never seen before, and what he said, although made some sort of sense, it doesn't make sense at the same time lmao. Basically, someone was killed in the night, even though he was not town read by a whole lot. The next thing that chennis said was this "So, we have to look at who town read him and we caught scum"

This sounded stupid at first, but it was only after I developed this mentality analysis hunting process that it actually made sense. Scum are more likely to town read people that they feel like are close to the truth / unstoppable / unlynchable. They town lock them and never go back on it. They ignore every possible interaction as much as possible with them. They don't want to sort them, because they are just thinking ahead of time, to the moment they will night kill that person. So, in order to reach the end goal of night killing them, they have to evade their scum read, and so, they'll town read them, pocket them, etc etc. Which is what ds has done.

[insomnia]

Just realized Eth0s has the second most posts... lets get some activity.

VOTE: dawoodle

This is a really ugly looking vote, looks really easy and opportunistic.

Was it a worse vote than voting for you? That was were my vote was before.

That's L-2.

Right! Sorry

And this seems like he feels guilty for his vote.

Or that I didn't announce L-2 which could have hurt the town.

So was my vote on you worthless because you hadn't said anything because you ended by saying that I ignored your question about the vote. Would it matter if I ignored you if it was worthless. Also, its a bit convenient that even though you got your phone back you wait until now to start accusing someone.

Also, its a bit convenient that even though you got your phone back you wait until now to start accusing someone.

So what was this about?

Sounds like you SR me here for the same reason you're now TR'ing me.

You still accused people in that game, but you also made an attempt to... I can't think of the right word but you had a different vibe with people. I guess I am really only speaking from my perspective. There was a point brought up about possible pairings and you were a common slot.

I would like to point out that I still believe that Luca is town even though I just said I don't trust SE's.

I said that I don't trust SE's but I still need to make reads obviously because people are trying to use that as a justification as to why I would be a safe lynch. I am going to make town reads and scum reads some of the town reads have been SE's, I am confident with my read on Luca. I did a little research on insom and I had come to the conclusion that he was town, then when I talked about it in the forum he confirmed my suspicion. There are still 3 more out there that I am unsure of I am not confident that I can get an accurate read on them but I will do my best. If you want to lynch me because some people are still neutral for me than I have nothing else to give you right now.

[dsjstr]

Spy was the only one trying to lynch me, if I was going to kill someone to make me look scum I would have just gone for my biggest fan. I was also scum reading poyzin and was trying to get information to try and start a counter wagon but you had to rush the vote. Poyzin I'd still like and answer Luca even asked once, and then later I asked if we could wait untill we heard from poyzin but once again insomnia wanted to rush the lynch.