Everything Is Still A Lie v2 [Canceled]

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Iconeum

Empty vote, nice -_-

you haven't been reading, have you

Not really

Don't get me wrong, I'm not appreciative of the insomn slot right now, but shading him over an empty vote while there's a ton of content going on is... odd

You know this is shade too lel

[a Gun and a Rose]

You’re all cowards for not voting guilty, btw

Also, yes, aware that we didn’t but that was mostly because I forgot and datisi did the objectively correct thing instead of the meme thing and I’ve never been so disappointed in her in all my life

-rose

[a Gun and a Rose]

Jackson is tentatively town?

-rose

[a Gun and a Rose]

Interesting, I think I understand where you're coming from a little better now. You were scum in the previous game btw, so it'd be weird to acknowledge you had decent scum-hunting off of that lul.

@Rau: What's the point of hydraing if you don't argue with and deathtunnel your partner at some point?

-Hectic

Well, generally, high level scum players are also high level town players. The better your town game becomes, the better your scum game becomes as well. I know I would fear a good scum player if I'm opposing him as either alignment.

What was the basis for this?

-rose

[VaultDweller]

the fact that he is a *highly* mislynchable player

Pushing a highly mislynchable player doesn't make you scum. I'm a highly mislynchable player and the players pushing me usually turn out to be town.

[Iconeum]

Jackson is tentatively town?

-rose

+1

[a Gun and a Rose]

I can answer that real quick:

Bc while she has a more extensive history with icon (by a bit, not by a lot) I think I have a perfect record of reading him or at least very good record whereas she and icon tend towards suspecting each other more and more the closer a game gets to lylo

-rose

Menalque!! <3

My experience with Iconeum is that as scum he is lurky.

- Turkey

Oh hai there turkey, I haven’t really been here

U scum?

If not, can u give me some reads n shit to work with?

-rose

[a Gun and a Rose]

the fact that he is a *highly* mislynchable player

Pushing a highly mislynchable player doesn't make you scum. I'm a highly mislynchable player and the players pushing me usually turn out to be town.

Pushing mislynchable players bc they did something that looks scummy instead of trying to read them more deeply is definitely +scum and the inability of towns to go beyond the surface level of mislynch bait is one of the main reasons they lose

-rose

[VaultDweller]

Why do you read icon v insom as TvT?

A gut feel I guess. The way they are both convinced the other is scum feels like TvT from past experience. Admittedly this isn't a strong read, but the strongest I've got atm.

[a Gun and a Rose]

Obvious scum can be town

Vault dweller can be town for now

-rose

[VaultDweller]

the fact that he is a *highly* mislynchable player

Pushing a highly mislynchable player doesn't make you scum. I'm a highly mislynchable player and the players pushing me usually turn out to be town.

Pushing mislynchable players bc they did something that looks scummy instead of trying to read them more deeply is definitely +scum and the inability of towns to go beyond the surface level of mislynch bait is one of the main reasons they lose

-rose

Give me a proper read on Insomnia then. Because FMPOV you are pushing them because they did something that looks scummy instead of trying to read them more deeply.

[a Gun and a Rose]

Idrk what you want beyond what I’m giving you?

I think there’s a meaningful distinction between “X is scummy for lolvoting, let’s lynch them”

And “X is making a really bad faith push due to something that’s NAI, let’s lynch them”

Do you disagree that the second example is bad faith or do you disagree that pushing in bad faith is genuinely scummy?

[a Gun and a Rose]

-rose

[The Fonz]

using self meta for a bastard game

I like you. Who should we mislynch?

[polypies73]

using self meta for a bastard game

I like you. Who should we mislynch?

obvious scum

cause i def shot them

[VaultDweller]

Idrk what you want beyond what I’m giving you?

I think there’s a meaningful distinction between “X is scummy for lolvoting, let’s lynch them”

And “X is making a really bad faith push due to something that’s NAI, let’s lynch them”

Do you disagree that the second example is bad faith or do you disagree that pushing in bad faith is genuinely scummy?

I disagree that the push was in bad faith. I think Insomnia genuinely sees Ico's behaviour as scummy and is pushing him for that. From what you're telling me it's normal Ico behaviour which makes him mislynchable, but Isomnia seems to disagree with that. That in itself doesn't make Insomnia scum. If you can give me more than that I might reconsider, but that's where I'm at.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: A Gun and a Rose

I'm sure Menalque isn't usually this boring

[insomnia]

Interesting, I think I understand where you're coming from a little better now. You were scum in the previous game btw, so it'd be weird to acknowledge you had decent scum-hunting off of that lul.

@Rau: What's the point of hydraing if you don't argue with and deathtunnel your partner at some point?

-Hectic

Well, generally, high level scum players are also high level town players. The better your town game becomes, the better your scum game becomes as well. I know I would fear a good scum player if I'm opposing him as either alignment.

What was the basis for this?

-rose

That by understanding how town think and catching scum, you can learn how to effectively infiltrate town blocks and how to hide TMI ?

[insomnia]

I've explained thrice how my push has nothing to do with Iconeum "lolvoting". I felt as if he wanted to hide amongst other town because there were loads of "imma guilty" but, again, lolvoting isn't done without something to evaluate off of.

Iconeum came in the thread, had no idea who Minstrel was or what they've done and yet still decided to vote guilty. And the fake bravado afterwards makes no actual sense. He's like "Yeah, I wanted to lynch someone that I have no read on, town do this shit all the time, right?"

Where I feel like Iconeum would NEVER do that. And his recent post with "Town do this shit all the time" made me believe that I was right when assuming he was faking it in order to get town read.

[insomnia]

Menal, how about you talk a little about why Iconeum is town here based on meta? Or datisi, cuz she disagreed with my perception of Ico's meta.

[Iconeum]

I've explained thrice how my push has nothing to do with Iconeum "lolvoting". I felt as if he wanted to hide amongst other town because there were loads of "imma guilty" but, again, lolvoting isn't done without something to evaluate off of.

Iconeum came in the thread, had no idea who Minstrel was or what they've done and yet still decided to vote guilty. And the fake bravado afterwards makes no actual sense. He's like "Yeah, I wanted to lynch someone that I have no read on, town do this shit all the time, right?"

Where I feel like Iconeum would NEVER do that. And his recent post with "Town do this shit all the time" made me believe that I was right when assuming he was faking it in order to get town read.

insomnia, there is little to be said about this.

Your entire point is based on the wrong assumption that town!ico would never do x or z.
There's no way for me to defend against that. If you really think you caught me, keep pushing. But ur wrong.

Literally all of it was real, not faked, and all 100% pure town!ico

[insomnia]

the fact that he is a *highly* mislynchable player

Pushing a highly mislynchable player doesn't make you scum. I'm a highly mislynchable player and the players pushing me usually turn out to be town.

Pushing mislynchable players bc they did something that looks scummy instead of trying to read them more deeply is definitely +scum and the inability of towns to go beyond the surface level of mislynch bait is one of the main reasons they lose

-rose

Oh almighty master, please teach me the ways of scum hunting deeper than what I've already done. What else is there in "Lol i'm guiltying cuz fuck this game am i right"?

I don't like your sudden progression on me that basically ignores my slot completely and only when I make a push on someone you perceive as easily mislynchable, I become a suspect. Talk to me about why I'm scum because of that, I have explained myself.

Pushing mislynchable players bc they did something that looks scummy instead of trying to read them more deeply is definitely +scum

Besides, I thought that it was extremely townie to lolvote? So why choose this angle?

I don't even know if they're like both scum or Gun and a rose slot ended in a really bad wking positioning, but I feel like flipping this first

VOTE: Guns and a rose

defending iconeum here is actual TMIng, I thought he only posted NAI stuff, not once has any of you two actually said "This is more likely to come from town ico" , or "this post is really town for ico", you just instantly postured as defending ico without expressing a town read on him, with the sole purpose of reacting to my push. Not one of you asked me how I perceived Ico's meta, and when I did, you didn't try to tell me how to read him properly. So the burden that you're placing on me to "read him deeper or you're scum" is really unfair. You didn't even read him, you town read him for this :

Icon is Town

hmmm
VOTE: insomnia
@whoever said they were TRing them can i get a tldr on that

-gun

which, what was this read even about, again? what has he done so townie that you guys read him town?

[insomnia]

Hey icon can u come and do something AI pls, datisi has given me responsibility for reading you

-mena

What's wrong with Icon's progression there, Insom?

-gun

Ico, can you answer the question Insom asked so he can answer mine pls?

-gun

And frankly, something that I don't think you as town!Ico would ever come out with.

#Town!Ico never does this

every.single.game.

The meme is actually fucking real lmao

-gun

Icon is Town

hmmm
VOTE: insomnia
@whoever said they were TRing them can i get a tldr on that

-gun

Like, this is your actual progression. It seems to me that, by this progression, you're town reading him because of my push on him, rather than reading him for his own posts, which demonstrates that you didn't even bother trying to sort him. This town read came out of thin air.

[insomnia]

Iconeum, since you're here, what things have you done that were actually town indicative to get a town read from Datisi, based on that progression? Do you think it's a fair evaluation of your slot?

[Iconeum]

Iconeum, since you're here, what things have you done that were actually town indicative to get a town read from Datisi, based on that progression? Do you think it's a fair evaluation of your slot?

I've not done anything to deserve a hard townread. But I also think they said my actions were mostly NAI, and not scum indicative. Which I agree with. My main point to you is not that you should be townreading me, but that the entire foundation of your case is a faulty assumption.

Plus the whole mislynch bait read (every fucking game lol) makes me feel it's plausible they tend to scumread whoever pushes me like this. For these 2 players, it's NAI. They will open a game as any allignment with a read on me like that, so I don't mind you push it.

Other then that, menal is correct that Datisi and I will tend to grow a paranoia on each other as games progress, and that menal has a near perfect record in reading me. That's just a fact.