Krazy's Post-Apocalypse uPick (Game Over)

[Clover Ebi]

With regard to mastina.. idk, I feel like her being this confident in her reads is off for her? Like normally I think she’s a lot more hedging as town and talks more about how she has lots of flaws as a player and with her own reads, and that hasn’t been happening here like at all. She’s seemed crazy confident in herself being right in a way that doesn’t seem consistent with what I’ve previously seen in town!her doubting whether she’s got it right.

Assuming this meta is correct, why do you think Mastina would go this angle as scum then? Just because something is off doesn't mean it's scummy right? Or, do you think she's that unaware with her self meta that this is an issue?

[The Collectors]

@nancy:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81502

-collector general

Well, your scumgame has clearly greatly improved since Surprise.

Wrt Alimida, he does seem different here, less wooden.

CG, it’s actually based on this, hard to accurately meta read you but both of you seemed to be somewhat lamisty in GNR.

~Fu

Thanks! That was very much still a learning point for me and me imitating stuff I didn’t understand while trying to find my own style

Did you just skim our ISOs there or?

-collector general

Yeah, I’m wondering if it could possibly be a tvt here but then I would obviously have a more accurate read on both of you, if either/both of you could possibly paraphrase in detail what happened in your PT?

~Fu

That’s easy, it’s 8 posts

First two are krazy explaining what the thread is and then announcing the day has started and the walkie talkies are now working

Next two are first me politely saying hi then demanding in all caps to know who the fuck else is in there

Next 2 are alim first saying hi back then saying he has a plan

Then I tell him to tell me what the plan is

The next two are first him saying we could treat it as a masonry and claim to each other

Then him saying that he thinks I’m scum

-collector general

[Clover Ebi]

Clover, are you an alt of someone? Or is your join date correct? This is important I swear

I suppose technically I'm an alt. I played a handful of games here ages ago before going to other sites mafia universe. Decided to try out longer deadlines over here since work is picking up. Does that answer your question?

Hmmm no, not as I expected, I thought it would be easier to sort you with your answer, but I'll have to leave you for later.

I thought your readlist would be scum indicative if you were experimented and town indicative if not; given the gamestate, going for a dissonant read it's a great idea coming from scum 'cause you don't want to pop up in the thread and look like you're blending in without any thoughts of your own and also gives you alternatives for future pushes. Your scumread on me is the one I'm talking about: I don't think you're the only one scumreading me, but you're certainly the only one who has openly said it.

So my second alternative was that a more experienced partner told you to do that, but your posts emanate confidence: you're not a puppet of no one, this is all you.

Then, your answer leaves me without a conclusion: sounds like you're experimented enough to do that move as scum, but not enough used to this site's actual meta to do it. My gut says you're just being genuine and you're town.

I wasn't expecting this kind of response. Mostly because I've never had many people want to meta me given my history, but I like this answer regardless. I thought it would just a simple yes or no but the fact it had some merit behind it leads me to believe otherwise.

Was your vote on DEB a joke or do you really scumread him? He's one of my more confident townreads as you can tell and I'd like to clear up any doubt on him or someone show me why I'm wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

Because you have wonderful reasons for tunneling on me!

I am quite flattered.

Since when do scum admit my reasons are good?

Hell, scumslips don't get voteparked in larges.

This wagon is static with no counter. It's flipping town. I'd vote it to avoid a no lynch but that's it.

Care to fabricate reads?

~Titus

And yet, miraculously, as it comes closer to being lynched people (see: or, you) are shopping around for an alternative

-collector general

Nah, Titus is actually hard sr that slot and Auro is still hard sr chk slot.

Why does Auro hard SR chk!slot?

I don’t really think you shopping around is scummy but mostly because I’m sold on PB town and I trust him to read you particularly

-collector general

He hasn’t been around that much lately but probably in part due to FL’s reasoning? I’m not really sure. I was tr that slot but I’m suspicious of Hectic’s Mastina vote, which is why I don’t have as strong an opinion on it as Titus. I think if there’s scum on Alimida, it’s probably not you though and definitely not DM.

What I find really fascinating is that Mastina is getting sr for having too much confidence on reads, which is actually NIA for her but we’re not really seeing that with TSE, who is actually going so far as lining up hypothetical vigshots. Having never played with him before I have no clue whether or not he’s tunnelly town or scum but I like his Mastina read, so . . . eh?

~Fu

Can we move past this? Because this is not the reason.

[Past Present Future]

@ank okay, I think it would be strange for scum!alch to push the idea of scum!me when he first said I felt scummy because it’s just like a very obviously weak thing to push on

And I can see how this

Your posts to both me and FL have felt like you were buddying andptrying to not to make enemies. I’m not even sure who you are that you would want to policy me.

would be a rational way to view my play there if you didn’t know how I play

What I meant by “not breaking his frame” is like, he sees certain behaviours as scum!indicstive I think (e.g. friendly behaviour as trying to buddy and buddying as something scum does), and of those behaviours are approached from within that framework then yes, the person doing them will seem scummy. If he was to engage my behaviour

on my own terms

and still argue that was +scum for me, it would be him shitpushing something he knew was NAI which is in itself scummy

But given that he didn’t know who it was at the time (I believe he hadn’t checked the hydra key) then he was just seeing something he thought was a scum behaviour and pushing it

-collector general

I think you’re town, so agreeing with PB here, who Titus hard tr. Like I already stated, whatever Alimida’s flip, and I still think town based off his emotional reactions which seem genuine but I definitely think regardless of flip, outside of Dats Mist and you, at least one scum is on his wagon.

~Fu

[The Collectors]

What was bad about the datisi vote?

-collector general

considering that you/pb were already discussion the alimdia scumread and there was support for it from other slots, it's really easy to slip in an extra vote in order to tip the momentum towards that lynch

and considering that the wagon took off like wildfire and then just... stalled indicates that it started that way

considering that a lot of the sheep votes after the first several were slots like PP and Elsa, who I would generally expect to sheep because lolwagons, the way datisi initially supported the wagon and then hopped on after it started really stands out compared to all the other votes

-Leona

Okay, I need to reread this later but rn I’m trying to focus on the real-time interactions and I still feel p good about chem/dats mostly because I know dats is busy IRL and so her not posting isn’t telling for scum!her

Plus I just do TR her in tone and I think that’s still the easiest way to read her even tho it’s improving for sure

Okay, so let’s say alim!town — how many scum do you think are on? Just alch? Or you actually think dats is scum beyond a bad vote

-collector general

-collector general

[The Collectors]

@PB, next time you’re here can you talk about alch, please?

-collector general

[Eclipse]

idk

I don't have a good enough grasp on the game to really determine that

-Leona

[The Collectors]

@ank okay, I think it would be strange for scum!alch to push the idea of scum!me when he first said I felt scummy because it’s just like a very obviously weak thing to push on

And I can see how this

Your posts to both me and FL have felt like you were buddying andptrying to not to make enemies. I’m not even sure who you are that you would want to policy me.

would be a rational way to view my play there if you didn’t know how I play

What I meant by “not breaking his frame” is like, he sees certain behaviours as scum!indicstive I think (e.g. friendly behaviour as trying to buddy and buddying as something scum does), and of those behaviours are approached from within that framework then yes, the person doing them will seem scummy. If he was to engage my behaviour

on my own terms

and still argue that was +scum for me, it would be him shitpushing something he knew was NAI which is in itself scummy

But given that he didn’t know who it was at the time (I believe he hadn’t checked the hydra key) then he was just seeing something he thought was a scum behaviour and pushing it

-collector general

my issue with this is that attacking the policy lynch is an easy snap decision to make for scum, like it's a basic thing to take a post that is easy to push on and just slap an extra reason onto it to make the push look better

and he immediately backed off and disengaged when he realized it was you that had made that post

-Leona

I don’t think this is true because he kept his SR up on me all the way until he voted alim, even talking about how alim/me could be SvS

But you’re right that he kind of doesn’t prosecute it at all as a read after the initial point and calling it obvscumming

I think I’m starting to prefer an alch wagon?

-collector general

[The Collectors]

Hmmm

VOTE: alch

-collector general

[Past Present Future]

up to that post, I really don't think Alimdia is scum

the way he's indignantly shouting looks like town that finds the reasoning for the wagon completely ridiculous, and I'm not seeing the squirming that scum usually do when they think they're caught for bad reasons or for no reason at all, I'm just seeing him just yell about the same things like it's obvious he's not scum for that

the datisi and alchemist votes were especially bad compared to the rest

-Leona

+1

Yeah, his emotional reaction to it seems genuine. I hard tr DM though. But I disliked Alchemist’s initial push on CG even more. Him accusing GM of pocketing him and FL seemed kind of over the top to me but PB seems convinced on him town but based on SC 2, I could still see it. \_0_/

~Fu

[The Collectors]

Unless it’s like exactly (alim, ppf, eclipse) this seems better than alim

-collector general

[The Collectors]

With regard to mastina.. idk, I feel like her being this confident in her reads is off for her? Like normally I think she’s a lot more hedging as town and talks more about how she has lots of flaws as a player and with her own reads, and that hasn’t been happening here like at all. She’s seemed crazy confident in herself being right in a way that doesn’t seem consistent with what I’ve previously seen in town!her doubting whether she’s got it right.

Assuming this meta is correct, why do you think Mastina would go this angle as scum then? Just because something is off doesn't mean it's scummy right? Or, do you think she's that unaware with her self meta that this is an issue?

This is exactly why I was wondering about mastina!jester possibilities

It felt like her intentionally playing off her town meta but in a way that would be obvious, without looking like she was trying to obvscum

-collector general

[The Collectors]

@clover I think it would probably be more productive for you to focus on interacting with those of us currently here rather than asking long questions to those who are not

-collector general

[Past Present Future]

I think tse is someone who trended towards toxicly arrogant in his reads but who is actively working on that since his return to site and stuff like him trying to line up vig shots is probably more indicative of that trend within him than it is AI

With regard to mastina.. idk, I feel like her being this confident in her reads is off for her? Like normally I think she’s a lot more hedging as town and talks more about how she has lots of flaws as a player and with her own reads, and that hasn’t been happening here like at all. She’s seemed crazy confident in herself being right in a way that doesn’t seem consistent with what I’ve previously seen in town!her doubting whether she’s got it right. Like I’ve seen her be confident in PoE pools or on townreads, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her enter a game and push someone as scum as hard as she pushed FL on as little evidence/reasoning as she had

Also, does this mean you’re not SRing alim either?

Also why do you think dats/mist are town?

-collector general

Is this addressed to me?

Their constant questioning of TSE’s ridiculously confident sr without giving any really good explanation for them as well as mindmelding with me on a lot of things but I don’t really like their vote on Alimida but they seem so obvtown otherwise.

I agree with Ank wrt Alilida’s reactions. It doesn’t read scummy to me.

~Fu

[Flavor Leaf]

@Nancy - I think you should realize that you’re likely gonna hard town read at least 1 scum.

As is the case for most people. Scum like to pocket different people in the game and they spread out and position themselves to do so. Town have limited information, so early game it’s extremely likely that it happens.

[The Collectors]

Where’s your head at now papa leaf?

-collector general

[Past Present Future]

With regard to mastina.. idk, I feel like her being this confident in her reads is off for her? Like normally I think she’s a lot more hedging as town and talks more about how she has lots of flaws as a player and with her own reads, and that hasn’t been happening here like at all. She’s seemed crazy confident in herself being right in a way that doesn’t seem consistent with what I’ve previously seen in town!her doubting whether she’s got it right. Like I’ve seen her be confident in PoE pools or on townreads, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her enter a game and push someone as scum as hard as she pushed FL on as little evidence/reasoning as she had

there is a pretty significant difference between mastina's town!confidence and scum!confidence

the way she's been showing her confidence so far is scum!confidence

-Leona

Really? I don’t think so and I really wish I had a hood with you and Dann to explain why I think you’re wrong. In Timesshift, she was initially hard pushing our slot for ludicrous reasons as lockscum, Then later, she claimed she had done that to push us (me and Ari) to obvtown. Then she did a complete 180 on our slot and went out on a limb to try to prevent our mislynch. As you obviously know, she flipped town in that,

~Fu

[Eclipse]

I don’t think this is true because he kept his SR up on me all the way until he voted alim, even talking about how alim/me could be SvS

that just makes it even more weird

disengaging from the push when he realizes it's you, and then keeps talking about the scumread later on when joining the wagon of the day?

yeah no

-Leona

[Flavor Leaf]

Where’s your head at now papa leaf?

-collector general

Not really sure, tbh. I don’t feel I’m in this game right now.

I have reads, but they don’t boil down to scum and town reads, if that makes sense.

I think I want to look into Nancy’s town reads to find scum, because I’m like...99% sure that scum is being town read by her, and just letting it happen.

[The Collectors]

I don’t think this is true because he kept his SR up on me all the way until he voted alim, even talking about how alim/me could be SvS

that just makes it even more weird

disengaging from the push when he realizes it's you, and then keeps talking about the scumread later on when joining the wagon of the day?

yeah no

-Leona

Okay, so wanna vote him with me then?

Same Q for nancy

-collector general

[Eclipse]

With regard to mastina.. idk, I feel like her being this confident in her reads is off for her? Like normally I think she’s a lot more hedging as town and talks more about how she has lots of flaws as a player and with her own reads, and that hasn’t been happening here like at all. She’s seemed crazy confident in herself being right in a way that doesn’t seem consistent with what I’ve previously seen in town!her doubting whether she’s got it right. Like I’ve seen her be confident in PoE pools or on townreads, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her enter a game and push someone as scum as hard as she pushed FL on as little evidence/reasoning as she had

there is a pretty significant difference between mastina's town!confidence and scum!confidence

the way she's been showing her confidence so far is scum!confidence

-Leona

Really? I don’t think so and I really wish I had a hood with you and Dann to explain why I think you’re wrong. In Timesshift, she was initially hard pushing our slot for ludicrous reasons as lockscum, Then later, she claimed she had done that to push us (me and Ari) to obvtown. Then she did a complete 180 on our slot and went out on a limb to try to prevent our mislynch. As you obviously know, she flipped town in that,

~Fu

X

[Eclipse]

I don’t think this is true because he kept his SR up on me all the way until he voted alim, even talking about how alim/me could be SvS

that just makes it even more weird

disengaging from the push when he realizes it's you, and then keeps talking about the scumread later on when joining the wagon of the day?

yeah no

-Leona

Okay, so wanna vote him with me then?

Same Q for nancy

-collector general

way ahead of you my dude

-Leona

[The Collectors]

Where’s your head at now papa leaf?

-collector general

Not really sure, tbh. I don’t feel I’m in this game right now.

I have reads, but they don’t boil down to scum and town reads, if that makes sense.

I think I want to look into Nancy’s town reads to find scum, because I’m like...99% sure that scum is being town read by her, and just letting it happen.

I mean it doesn’t make super lots of sense, no, can you explain some more?

Also, like why specifically at Nancy’s townpool and not like mine, ank’s, PB’s...?

-collector general

[Past Present Future]

@nancy:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81502

-collector general

Well, your scumgame has clearly greatly improved since Surprise.

Wrt Alimida, he does seem different here, less wooden.

CG, it’s actually based on this, hard to accurately meta read you but both of you seemed to be somewhat lamisty in GNR.

~Fu

Thanks! That was very much still a learning point for me and me imitating stuff I didn’t understand while trying to find my own style

Did you just skim our ISOs there or?

-collector general

Yeah, I’m wondering if it could possibly be a tvt here but then I would obviously have a more accurate read on both of you, if either/both of you could possibly paraphrase in detail what happened in your PT?

~Fu

That’s easy, it’s 8 posts

First two are krazy explaining what the thread is and then announcing the day has started and the walkie talkies are now working

Next two are first me politely saying hi then demanding in all caps to know who the fuck else is in there

Next 2 are alim first saying hi back then saying he has a plan

Then I tell him to tell me what the plan is

The next two are first him saying we could treat it as a masonry and claim to each other

Then him saying that he thinks I’m scum

-collector general

Wouldn’t scum!Alimida be more likely to try harder to pocket you? Because I think if scum, he would obviously have an agenda and it would therefore be important to get you onboard, so him calling you “scum” while obviously silly, would seem to be contrary to whatever scum agenda he would have been pushing. right? It sounds more to me like bad town impulsively jumping to a bad conclusion than anything else. I still don’t understand his thinking wrt to either the masonry thing or the roleclaim but it sounds like he sincerely believed it.

~Fu