Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Hectic]

How would you scumhunt in this game, Hectic? This is a serious question. I am interested in how you arrived to the conclusion that i could be scum, and therefore you'd like to avoid sparing me in your quest for a 4-spared route. Same about Amrun or Almidia, as per post 942.

i wouldn't do anything different from normal while scumhunting... granted it's harder without flips...
i'm not saying we shouldn't scumhunt while going for 4 SPAREs though...
because it's a lot easier for scum to look towny if all they do is townhunt... so scumhunting should still happen even if we're going for 4 SPAREs...
and i think it's good to ask people you consider SPARING who their scumreads are...
my scumread on you is mainly based on your logic involving SPARING vs FIGHTING after Sujimichi was an IC to you...
and the case today which i think has very bad reasons honestly...
though i will say that i have been slightly townreading your town this game... the frustration comes across as genuine sometimes...
especially when you reacted after Sujimichi claimed FN yesterday...
mixed feelings... i'll probably have to reread you from your entrance and clash with Replica yesterday to form a concrete opinion on you...
not looking forward to that endeavour but will do at some point...

[Chemist1422]

reads are a lie perpetuated by the government

townread: farkran, hectic
townlean: psyche, amrun?
null: replica, chara, alim (note: I haven't read the ISOs of these three yet, but I did want to talk about my Nacho read before doing that)
scumlean:
scumread: nacho

My Nacho read is based on one central thing: I think they are having trouble making genuine reads. I don't like them repeatedly going "I disagree with this but Chemist is still town", it feels like them trying to justify a TMI townread, I don't like the abundance of mechanics talk, and I don't like their scum pool being mostly lurkers then them proceeding to lurk.

[Bingle]

Priority imo is getting Bingle caught up and Nacho in the game.

Good luck with that. I’ll skim some tonight but I straight up don’t have the free time to try hard here so I’m prolly just gonna look for someone to sheep.

[Amrun]

I think chemist’s scumread of nacho is fair. Why townread Farkran though?

[Amrun]

Priority imo is getting Bingle caught up and Nacho in the game.

Good luck with that. I’ll skim some tonight but I straight up don’t have the free time to try hard here so I’m prolly just gonna look for someone to sheep.

Then why would you replace in?

[fight]Bingle[/fight]

[Amrun]

Dang it.

HURT: Bingle

[Bingle]

Priority imo is getting Bingle caught up and Nacho in the game.

Good luck with that. I’ll skim some tonight but I straight up don’t have the free time to try hard here so I’m prolly just gonna look for someone to sheep.

Then why would you replace in?

[fight]Bingle[/fight]

Pops asked me to repeatedly and I helped design the setup.

[Chemist1422]

I think chemist’s scumread of nacho is fair. Why townread Farkran though?

I liked his wall and tone in his responses

[Amrun]

Priority imo is getting Bingle caught up and Nacho in the game.

Good luck with that. I’ll skim some tonight but I straight up don’t have the free time to try hard here so I’m prolly just gonna look for someone to sheep.

Then why would you replace in?

[fight]Bingle[/fight]

Pops asked me to repeatedly and I helped design the setup.

That’s not a good reason if you don’t intend to try.

I am going to be upset if you’re town.

[Amrun]

I think chemist’s scumread of nacho is fair. Why townread Farkran though?

I liked his wall and tone in his responses

What did you like about his wall? You don’t seem to agree with much of it.

[Chemist1422]

I think chemist’s scumread of nacho is fair. Why townread Farkran though?

I liked his wall and tone in his responses

What did you like about his wall? You don’t seem to agree with much of it.

I’m inclined to read it as genuine because he put thought and effort into it and I think his responses made that clear

[Amrun]

I think chemist’s scumread of nacho is fair. Why townread Farkran though?

I liked his wall and tone in his responses

What did you like about his wall? You don’t seem to agree with much of it.

I’m inclined to read it as genuine because he put thought and effort into it and I think his responses made that clear

No arguments that he put thought and effort, I just think he would do that as either alignment.

[Chemist1422]

I think chemist’s scumread of nacho is fair. Why townread Farkran though?

I liked his wall and tone in his responses

What did you like about his wall? You don’t seem to agree with much of it.

I’m inclined to read it as genuine because he put thought and effort into it and I think his responses made that clear

No arguments that he put thought and effort, I just think he would do that as either alignment.

I mean you’re not wrong

I dunno it’s sort of a gut read at this point for me

I just really think he believes in the read

[Amrun]

I feel you. Right in this moment I’m leaning that way myself.

[Bingle]

Okay. I’m townreading Farkran from the last three pages. Fark, what should I be voting for?

Wouldn’t trust psyche or Amrun to watch the tip jar at a Starbucks. If Fark disappoints I’m probably defaulting to chem as a recent poster who doesn’t give me ick feelings.

[Bingle]

That’s not a good reason if you don’t intend to try.

I am going to be upset if you’re town.

A half assed Bingle is better than a no assed slot, and repeated requests to replace in imply that’s the choice we have here, so go ahead and be disappointed, I guess.

[Replica]

Well, looks like it's about to toss my computer out the window, so much for keeping my content accessible when what the people really want is incomprehensible garbage and a lot of it.

This isn't a statement on this game, just a statement on the state of modern consumerism.

[Bingle]

^ third in line for sheeping.

[Farkran]

I admit i tend to enter deathtunnels, and that's why i'm asking for different point of views. I am having an hard time with it because all the answers i'm getting are pretty much "you're wrong because you're scum, and you're scum because you're wrong" - not really helpful. Confbias though just means that part/all of my reasoning is wrong though, not the conclusions - i'm pointing this out because if you (all) can lead me to understand where my reasoning has been wrong, i could reach different conclusions or the same, depending on whether i accept the new premises that you show me.

For what it's worth, I don't think the wallpost is that scummy actually, but I've been burned on these sorts of reads before, which is why I'm trying to follow up on it

WRT post 392, i think i expanded on it later when i was questioned about it. Post 977.

Alright, will check it out once I'm done responding

WRT post 300, you could be correct without context, but within the given context i think it is peculiar that Replica scumleans Chara at this point in time, when reading it with added future knowledge. Like, Replica seems to use Chara's unvote of Hectic to further his scumleans on it mostly because of confbias (Replica was townleaning Hectic and scumleaning Chara at the moment of post 300), but later on this feeling disappears completely for reasons that seemed unnaturally tied to how the three slots read each other. Compare this post to 607 -you can find it lower in my wall- to see an example of what i mean. This is probably more about Chara and Hectic themselves rather than Replica though.

I thought it was about my unvote of Hectic though? And I don't see how 607 is unnatural, given that Replica was already SPAREing Hectic?

Why i am guaranteed to be wrong on at least TWO of them, though? I would think i am wrong on at least one, potentially two or all three of them. Why exactly two? I did say that i think one of them is being deeply pocketed, but i didn't seem to gain any ground on that - i am now more inclined to believe the pocketed slot is Replica, if i am correct in saying there are 2 scum in that pool. It's just very, very hard to accept Replica's approach to this game as town, although it's... probably true. I town/scumhunt with emotional tells, as you may or may not recall from our previous game together (see my read of V&M in the magireco game hosted by tatsuya), and Replica is somewhat falling in that category. Not as much as i would like, but... arguably enough.

I meant two worlds, not two slots, sorry if that was unclear. What tells from Replica do you think are town?

Lastly, i chose those 3 because they are the ones who pinged me the most. Psyche would have been included, i still scumlean him, but the readshifts of that trio are the most peculiar to me. Amrun pinged me too, but in a more towny sense, so i am willing to leave her alone until i get more content to work with. I was suspecting you for your early defense of the lurker slots - that would place you in team with Psyche though, and i don't fancy that solve anymore. Nacho and Almidia(bingle) have been mostly lurking, i am waiting for them to come back with new content, but i am townleaning Nacho due to how the reads of other players evolved around him, and i liked Almidia multipost readlist back around post 290 or something.

Okay, that's fair. Can you go into more detail about the Psyche read, and are you just dropping the me/Psyche world because you're confident on the Hectic/Chara/Replica pool having scum?

Again WRT post 300, i only considered the interaction with Chara there, not with you - the answer i gave you here is considering what happened in the future, compared to what happened there. The whole wallpost is about Chara, Hectic and Replica interactions and their progression of one another.

I get your point about being wrong on at least two worlds (i think. You mean to say that out of Hectic/Chara, Replica/Chara, Replica/Hectic, two of these are necessarily wrong, correct?), but that's not how i thought of it, really. It's more like i am shipping 2 scum in {Hectic, Chara, Replica} and i'm still trying to sort out who's town among the three. I currently think it's Replica, and i think it's never Hectic based on how things rolled out - assuming i am correct. If hectic is town, it's a bit more unlikely that the other two are scum. Progression by Replica about Chara sounds a bit better upon re-read with added explanations. I'm significantly more confident about Hectic/Chara now, mostly because of those weird shenanigans that happened after Chara unvoted Hectic. See points 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8 (er... the second point 8, after the d2 line. Apparently i can't count) in post 945. The whole thing where Chara unvotes Hectic, and then Hectic scumreads Chara because of it, only for both slots to backpedal later up to be perfectly fine with sparing each other smells like rotten fish levels of distancing. Add in that Hectic started scumleaning me out of mostly omgus, and i just believe i am correct at least on him. I really don't buy that his scumcase of me is limited to my reasoning around sujimichi (1018, etc), after i explained so many times that i wouldn't spare anyone because it's suboptimal, risky, and a waste of time in most of the cases described by the setup.

[Farkran]

Sorry i mean post 1025 from hectic, not 1018

[Farkran]

About Psyche, he's one of the slots i would find most individually scummy out of the playerlists. However, like, scum!Psyche doesn't... quite fit in the gamestate as i understand it.

Things i have against him:
- Pine lurking, then replacing out. I have direct experience of him doing so when he rolls scum in a game he's not enthusiast about (newbie 1958), and i have heard at least a couple people complaining about the same things. Can't recall where, but i am pretty sure pops complained about her scumpartner Pine replacing out and leaving her alone.
- Way too much confidence in a 4-spared route, when he doesn't have a clear view of the mechanics or the playerlist. See 405 vs 665 vs 742. Even assuming 665 is correct, it's clear that the game could not be that easy. Not even close. Consensus townreads are going to die, just like in every mafia game that ever exixisted, and it does not make sense not to consider that when planning for a 4-spared strategy that only involves like, 5 reads total... including himself. And hectic, but whatever.
- He seems to be actively dodging any and all tentatives to produce a gamesolve outside of pushing easy spares (note: easy spares does not mean town spares). Look at how many times he says he would focus, read, analyze players and ISOs only to produce nullreads and nothing else. Look at 933 to see a general example of what i mean - there are plenty more in his ISO.
- ...I just noticed 405, 610, 611, 661, 673, 736, while rereading his ISO again to produce this post. It was probably a mistake, now i scumread him again lol.

In his favor, i think that his only available partner slots are Hectic and Chemist. I was expecting Psyche would come up and replace the now dead Sherlock with Chemist in his sparelist, but he didn't - this kinda makes the trail feel colder than it was yesterday. I don't particularly see any other good partner for him in the current gamestate, although if Hectic is town i think Psyche's scum equity coincidentally rises instead of falling.

[Farkran]

Okay. I’m townreading Farkran from the last three pages. Fark, what should I be voting for?

Wouldn’t trust psyche or Amrun to watch the tip jar at a Starbucks. If Fark disappoints I’m probably defaulting to chem as a recent poster who doesn’t give me ick feelings.

Hmmm...

This post isn't really top quality, to be honest. Why are you townreading me? Based on 1042 it looks like you are believing tone/sentiment rather than content, so why would you sheep my reads for that reason alone? Besides, i have been pretty straightforward regarding who my scumtargets are. Best vote for today is Hectic, imo. Otherwise, i'm still willing to hear towncases about him.

Seriously though, you should produce more content. D2 has just started, you have plenty of time to catch up. ISOs i suggest to read: Hectic, Chara, Psyche.

[Psyche]

all your reads seem super wrong

while there are just some weird contradictions in your reasoning (for example you quote a post where i acknowledge where scum will kill townclears, but elsewhere you say i don't consider that consensus townreads are gonna die kinda weird), in general i think the systemic problem with the way you develop reads is that you associate towniness far too readily w/ tight, cautious, analytical, thorough play - or more specifically w/ play and positioning like yours

think that's the lesson you'll hopefully pick up once the game's all said and done

[Psyche]

unless you're scum lol

[Farkran]

all your reads seem super wrong

while there are just some weird contradictions in your reasoning (for example you quote a post where i acknowledge where scum will kill townclears, but elsewhere you say i don't consider that consensus townreads are gonna die kinda weird), in general i think the systemic problem with the way you develop reads is that you associate towniness far too readily w/ tight, cautious, analytical, thorough play - or more specifically w/ play and positioning like yours

think that's the lesson you'll hopefully pick up once the game's all said and done

As opposed to... what? Distracted, inconsistent, inconclusive play? Or what else do you read as towny in a player, when trying to townhunt?

Tell me why and where i am wrong.