TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Firebringer]

how does me and maria agree so much in this game.

it feels dirty

[Firebringer]

mariaR is like my spirit animal this game

[EspressoPatronum]

I almost want to vote Ank here, there's something that pings me about how she's handling this conversation.

I think this is scummy of her.

I'll get the ball rolling.

VOTE: Ank

[EspressoPatronum]

[...]Even today, almost all of EP's posts are simply explaining exactly the same things you have, except in a much more bland way, and a single lukewarm stance on wanting to lynch nom.

That's it.

You're talking as if I've been present for most of the in-game day. I was VLA for several days and was clear that my week has been busy.

Pretending that I've been in here giving a bunch of bland posts is disingenuous.

[EspressoPatronum]

@MariaR - to answer your question earlier -- I townread dave more than I believed in the DV/Dave scum dichotomy. As such, I've removed my scum inventor + scum RBer theory from my read on you. I disliked your posts yesterday, but your posts today look better.

Regarding the reads on my slot (Ank, MariaR, EC), I would encourage anyone to review some of my past games. My playstyle often leaves people with scummy vibes, as you will see in several of my games. My first Newbie game, Pokemon Ruby, and Make Me Regret This Upick are all examples of people scumreading me for reasons similar to your scumreads of me this game. As FL can attest, I warned him about this in our hood several days ago... my playstyle often looks scummy.

FYI - I have no scum games with which to compare because I've never rolled scum on site.

@Ank -- you're still scum.

[EspressoPatronum]

@panth - I'd enjoy it if panth dialed back the toxicity a bit.

Scumreading someone (ie. nom) shouldn't be a free pass to treat them poorly... even if they're not playing to your expectations.

[EspressoPatronum]

I don't wanna think about Ank being scum because if I have to get into a 1v1 with Ank I'll lose. Her recent posting is really bad, but it begs the question why did she basically save the nom wagon. And while yes EC can make those notes as scum really, he doesn't need to.

Gobble thinks Ank is using nom as a way to gain a better position in the late game.

As long as I'm still alive, you won't have to 1v1 Ank.

[panthaleon]

@panth - I'd enjoy it if panth dialed back the toxicity a bit.

Scumreading someone (ie. nom) shouldn't be a free pass to treat them poorly... even if they're not playing to your expectations.

Wow we're counting this as toxicity? Y'all wouldn't have lasted a single game back in my day. Rabble rabble get off my lawn.

[Flavor Leaf]

If y’all lynch EP, I’m not using my lightning rod.

[Firebringer]

and we should care because?

[nomnomnom]

I don't wanna think about Ank being scum because if I have to get into a 1v1 with Ank I'll lose. Her recent posting is really bad, but it begs the question why did she basically save the nom wagon. And while yes EC can make those notes as scum really, he doesn't need to.

There are many political reasons, and on top of that I am not really the strongest town player in this list and it keeps me as a mislynch.

If you're sure about the gamestate leading to another town lynch it's almost entirely worth it to do this for scum!ank

[Firebringer]

nom if I were u and I had a venge I would be gungho about getting to use it. I don't get why ur not and that seems out of ur character wheel house.

but I also feel too deep in my townread at this point to question it.

tragic.

[nomnomnom]

I'd be pushing it real hard if I 100% knew where I'd shoot but I don't, so I'm avoiding this disaster.

[nomnomnom]

Like trust me I don't even want to play this game but the thing is that my shot here is kind of important and can potentially change the whole game so yeah.

[nomnomnom]

That's not entirely true, I have a good idea of who I want to flip the most in this playerlist. But still.

[Ankamius]

[...]Even today, almost all of EP's posts are simply explaining exactly the same things you have, except in a much more bland way, and a single lukewarm stance on wanting to lynch nom.

That's it.

You're talking as if I've been present for most of the in-game day. I was VLA for several days and was clear that my week has been busy.

Pretending that I've been in here giving a bunch of bland posts is disingenuous.

The frequency is irrelevant. The relevant point is that what you had posted is all drivel.

[Flavor Leaf]

We all know I’m getting Venged if Nomnom gets lynched.

[nomnomnom]

What makes you think that?

[EspressoPatronum]

@panth - I'd enjoy it if panth dialed back the toxicity a bit.

Scumreading someone (ie. nom) shouldn't be a free pass to treat them poorly... even if they're not playing to your expectations.

Wow we're counting this as toxicity? Y'all wouldn't have lasted a single game back in my day. Rabble rabble get off my lawn.

Yes, I would count excessive hostility and rudeness as toxicity. I'm not really concerned what the games were like back in your day as long as its unacceptable today.

Please don't take it personally. Just trying to keep things civil.

[EspressoPatronum]

[...]Even today, almost all of EP's posts are simply explaining exactly the same things you have, except in a much more bland way, and a single lukewarm stance on wanting to lynch nom.

That's it.

You're talking as if I've been present for most of the in-game day. I was VLA for several days and was clear that my week has been busy.

Pretending that I've been in here giving a bunch of bland posts is disingenuous.

The frequency is irrelevant. The relevant point is that what you had posted is all drivel.

I point you to Exhibit A:

@Ank Feel free to ignore that wall, too. People will forget about it in a few days + you can resume your discrediting campaign.

[Dr Easy Bake]

Paraphrased from MathBlade:
@Boonskiies, what are your reads on the people pushing nom? Too many are pushing them, and it is starting to feel like a scum lynch that could lead to venging a top townread. Besides, nom is the only one talking reads. This could be a game killer. Can you and/or Ank start talking about reads? You two are my top townreads right now. Go Go Townblock FL, Ank and A50!

[Dr Easy Bake]

What did I miss regarding nom? How did that not happen?

Spoiler:

Now EP is voting my biggest townread?

[Ankamius]

I was writing a long post going into why I had reads the way they are, but I decided not to post it. Instead I'm going to do it this way.

Ankamius

Almost50
Firebringer
Gammagooey
nomnomnom
Panthaleon

davesaz
Flavor Leaf

Dr Easy Bake
kuribo
MariaR

EspressoPatronum

And yes, I'm changing my mind on DEB, somewhat, solely because of his vote on nom today.

I don't think his lynch is at all useful to the game other than the exact same reasons that nom is a good lynch, that being that it relieves a source of tension from the game.

One thing I'd like to go into a bit here is my general read on the game.

I don't find it likely that there is more than one scum in any one hood. This sounds like a very tricky balancing act for the mods to do, especially if the hoods are randomized. Effectively removing one of town's abilities and giving scum an extra LMS ability is a balance swing that I'm uncertain would be good for a game like this, especially since we are already aware that scum have extra abilities (two of which are known, revealing a hood and removing someone from a hood).

Going from here, the following is implied as the most likely situation we are in:

{Ankamius, Almost50} <- maximum one scum
{Flavor Leaf, EspressoPatronum} <- maximum one scum
{Firebringer, nomnomnom} <- maximum one scum
{kuribo, MariaR, Panthaleon} <- maximum one scum
{Dr Easy Bake, Gammagooey} <- maximum one scum
{Davesaz} <- maximum one scum

Considering that I'm townreading Almost50, our neighborhood reads as not having scum.
Considering that I'm townreading both Firebringer and nomnomnom, that neighborhood reads as not having scum.

The main issue I have with this idea is reconciling a scum!davesaz world, since I independently don't think he's particularly scummy. As an aside, I believe the Commuter -> Vengeful neighborhood would be the most likely to have two scum planted within it, but at this point that's quite a laughable idea. It's hard to tell with the DEB + Gammagooey neighborhood, although one thing that I believe benefits the idea that the alignments weren't randomized across hoods is that the survivor was placed in this neighborhood specifically. Every other neighborhood has an LMS ability that makes them a much higher priority target for nightkills or lynches, and I suspect that it isn't necessarily the case for that specific neighborhood. If that's true, then I think that this hypothesis has enough merit to be considered the default stance. So, unless the game was specifically balanced around scum having control over one of the neighborhoods, I'm struggling to see whether I'm wrong on davesaz and he is indeed scum, or if I'm wrong on one of Almost50 or Firebringer.

There is a world where Gammagooey is scum pushing through nomnomnom, but I do not believe it's the most likely possibility. It feels very awkward with remarkably little finesse to tunnel on the slot that is tunneled on nomnomnom until he dies, and then immediately give her the vengeful and push her as scum in his stead. I have had a feeling that the scumteam has been playing a very precise game ever since the chennisden kill, and this is a very sloppy way of going about this progression in that light.

Similarly, I can't see Panthaleon going as hard as he was on nomnomnom while lynching her was the popular opinion in a scum light. Nomnomnom has proven to be emotionally unstable in this game and prone to OMGUS, and yet he amped up the pressure on her when she stubbornly refused to do anything to help her own case. There was no hesitation about it. From what I can tell, he had to be

brute forced

out of that tunnel via the neighborhood with Kuribo and MariaR, and yet neither of them have shown up calling the progression scummy or even notable. This is an indication that the entire progression is coming from a town mindset, since, as I mentioned before, the scumteam are likely playing a precise game. Risking a vengekill on himself in this way is incredibly sloppy play in that light.

It's entirely possible that MariaR's woe is me mindset throughout a lot of the game is scum playing into the idea I'm having that scum are more likely among those that are playing the sidelines, but I've had enough of that same impression of the game as her to where I can see it being from a town mindset as well. I don't know how to read her well enough to decide which by itself.

Kuribo... I feel like he's purposely being dense if he's scum. If he's town, I simply don't get him. I'm leaning scum on him still mainly because his defense of himself is always the same thing; declaring himself to be impossible to mislynch in a mild tone, followed by a mishmash of tonal anger of varying degrees that feels overexaggerated and weirdly underexaggerated at points. I believe this trend has happened at three separate points this game, but I haven't checked to be sure, so who knows on that front.

I will get back to Firebringer at some point. I'm becoming increasingly aware that I'm not actually sure why I'm townreading him currently, and I haven't gone back through and checked yet.

Dr Easy Bake is a strange one. His vote on Nomnomnom was easily the worst one of the entire wagon, but at the same time I simply don't see the micromanagement I would expect from Mathblade (and to a lesser extent Titus) in this game, nor the level of content that indicates he is attempting to stave the lynch off himself. He had more of a response in Vengeful Ghosts when he was pushed as scum, yet there's really not much of anything there this time. If he was relying on me to shield him, I'd expect a lot more of a pocketing attempt beyond idly sheeping me while he's being wagoned yesterday, and simply giving me a motivational speech and then just drifting back into the aether. I normally wouldn't even consider this a very compelling point, if not for the fact that DEB specifically stated at one point that both Mathblade and Titus had given him a lot to work with for this game, so clearly they are keeping up on the game. Where is the influence being exerted at if he is scum?

Flavor Leaf is a townread, predominantly because of his tonal trajectory. It has been some time since the last time I fought him as scum when I was town, but I remember he was a lot more all over the place when interacting with me. He specifically attempted to rile me up and then toned back when it was approaching the point where engaging him was no longer something I was willing to do. He was much more about micromanaging the situation, and a lot of the games since where we were both town, he hasn't had that same quality. He's stuck to his guns until there was a logical time to switch approaches/mindsets, and the shift would make sense with the situation itself rather than how I'm reacting to it. I'm getting a similar sense here; he's being heavily contrarian to what I'm saying and has been for most of this and the last day phase, but I get a weird feeling that he's just in a really garbage tunnel rather than scum trying to manipulate or discredit me out of my reads/stances/credibility.

I've already gone into my scumread on EspressoPatronum enough. I don't need to do so again.

Who am I missing?

[nomnomnom]

What did I miss regarding nom? How did that not happen?

Spoiler:

Now EP is voting my biggest townread?

escaping death over and over again

[nomnomnom]

Paraphrased from MathBlade:
@Boonskiies, what are your reads on the people pushing nom? Too many are pushing them, and it is starting to feel like a scum lynch that could lead to venging a top townread. Besides, nom is the only one talking reads. This could be a game killer. Can you and/or Ank start talking about reads? You two are my top townreads right now. Go Go Townblock FL, Ank and A50!

also wth is that post you're aware that you are also pushing me right