Titus v. Alisae (endgame)

[Hectic]

hmmm
Sherlock or Oka

[Flavor Leaf]

Oka and kerlock arent S/S

[AaronFrost]

There's basically three people that I'll wagon at this point, Oka, Sherlock, and one other person who I won't say right now but I'll case when I get free time.

For now though, I have some university projects I need to work on.

[Hectic]

Who are you scumreading Oka?

flavor > ank > amrun > gobble

Oka why did your scumread of me disappear?

[Flavor Leaf]

Cuz he scum scummy pokimane

[OkaPoka]

Who are you scumreading Oka?

flavor > ank > amrun > gobble

Oka why did your scumread of me disappear?

Go read my iso i explained this already

[Sherlock and Watson]

also Maki/Kaito seem fine after reading their posts

Which of their posts do you like and why?

-S

[Hectic]

as for alignment stance wise since you are probs interested in that

i have somewhat legitimate reasons personally maybe not to other people to sr

aaronfrost, gobble, hectic in that order

after this

hectic is just weird like he's posting in a creature-esque fashion but im use to him being more of a firebringer-esque player

this is the only mention of me i found

[OkaPoka]

Congratulations

[OkaPoka]

All you have to do is see the next post

[Ankamius]

Hey krazy

Why are you holding me at a distance like this?

Also I began the game like, deliberately trying to break you away from the thing where you always demand a read on you immediately because even though I often become certain of my read on you it is disruptive to my process to be forced to start there. That and since I had planned to be roleplaying a bit (kinda dropped it tho tbh) I imagined you were going to have a fucked up read of me at the start. Now that you've decided to townread Dunn for shitty reasons though I feel like I'm just running into classic Ank obstinance and if I make clear the extent of my townread on you you'll be even more disruptive to lynching scum day 1 :P

-S

Ok, so I was right that you're treating me like town.

I don't know what exactly you expect me to do when you just shut down any engagement and try to overpower me when I challenge you, and it doesn't sit right when you go out of your way to specifically shut that path down before I even interact with you along that same track of thought.

I'm headstrong and it bugs me that you're not realizing that when I comment saying that I'm townreading your scumread, it's a lot harder for me to take the engagement seriously when you immediately try to shut it down and railroad me along a question line that doesn't pertain to how I read that slot in the first place.

No shit I'm going to be obstinate.

[Hectic]

also Maki/Kaito seem fine after reading their posts

Which of their posts do you like and why?

-S

they've just made sense i guess
like pointing out the Espeonage PR thing
telling people to stop waste time discussing drafting and play normal mafia
(discussing drafting is fun though)
but mostly just not seeing much that looks scummy

[Hectic]

All you have to do is see the next post

ah i see
you're sneaky

[OkaPoka]

Spoiler: Timeline of quotes

wanna lynch flavor leaf

VOTE: flavor

Thus far OkaPoka/Sherlock through their comments towards me are town indicative.

At least I explained myself more extensively than your reads. So yes, I think my reads hold merit.

You said RR was scum for PoEing Boon and Esp when your reasons for townreading Boon is 100% pick spec and your reasons for townreading Esp is because he's posting

-S

I feel this isn’t fair. Most of my posts this game prior to today had literally been directed towards Bitmap, and Titus, Bitmap, Alisae, Math, and Chkflip just met up like a week and a half ago, so there’s momentum from that.

I think it’s more than just pick spec as you mentioned. I think Bitmap’s read and the fact that he is having trouble expressing it completely in the first part is incredibly townie.

this is just garbage

One of Krazy hydra/Ankamius, but exactly one of them.

You're kinda looking at this the wrong way though

Duck and SS get to pick

If Ali goes first and does a top priority heavy that isn't Ank, then Duck could very easily double on us for town

Which is precisely why you're basically just looking at the pick logic totally wrong, you're over-prioritizing what is actually an incredibly difficult puzzle to analyze. Focus on play, Boon, before you actually make me want to policy lynch you for real Like half of what you've said since you stopped actually solving is like pure cancer

-S

So? I post a lot. It’s not like I don’t analyze play whilst all this.

I also think my posting is fantastic for reactions.

We’ll see.

If I’m right, like I usually am when people push at me, at least 2/3 partially, you can ask PenguinPower on my solve capabilities at the expense of some minor casualties.

And this is a solid base of the puzzle. I found a good amount of puzzle pieces, and looking at em all before I start trying to piece it together.

I think one of the people who have posted against me tonight is scum, and almost exactly one of them.

I no longer town read OkaPoka either. Maki/Oka/Krazy slot have probably 1 maybe 2 scum within them, but more likely 1.

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your fake push

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your

fake

push

Your real push happened before mine, your fake push happened after

Okay what about lying about the history to create a false gamestate premise

No, you’re the one lying. I split your push into pre flavor being here and after. You’re one after i showed up is fake

Nah, i chang3d my mind on you before you were ever interactin with me, don’t misrep.

Like the above is an extremely condensed timeline of posts, there are a lot more relevant scum indcative posts of flavor but for all of your sakes I just quoted some important timeline events to make the conversation easier.

I think its pretty clear that

a) Flavor townread me at one point or the other
b) I shaded Flavor after his townread of me
c) He flipped his read on me after I shaded him, he acknowledges it here:

I think one of the people who have posted against me tonight is scum, and almost exactly one of them.

Like he has this idea bouncing around in his head that I'm targetting him because of his ability to draft speculate, which I mean I guess is fair? I did originally shade his draft speculation as garbage, but we can well -establish the fact that Flavor Leaf has in fact, flipped his read on me partially due to me shading him. This is self-evident.

So well, game moves on, and Flavor makes some interesting comments where suddenly he paints this picture ~a picture mind you where it looks like I'm pushing him reactively, it's the implication of a chainsaw defense, omgus push you name it. Which I find strange and lacking of, well consistency? Like we can acknowledge town are hypocrites and fickle, but when a decent portion of your read flip is a result of something happen, its awfully confusing and weird to suddenly misremember that detail isn't it? I mean sure, its perfectly possible for Flavor to have "gamestate" reasons to continue scumreading me, but what lead him there is exactly my shade on his draft spec, he

LITERALLY

acknowledges this and now he acts like I'm just simply acting in response to everything?

Which makes this even more strange, because Flavor Leaf, after being pressed on it, clarifies that I indeed had two pushes this game. A real push first, and a fake push. Which is weird because he never at first acknowledges the legitimacy of my first push until after he is pressed about it, and does so now in order to self-rationalize some sort of internal consistency. Like he continues to try and qualify and muddle his claim of how events transpire when its pretty clear that the start of his scumread on me is very much diametrically opposed to how he's trying to push me now. He's pushing me based on the implication that I'm omgusing, let's be honest. Since he hasn't really mentioned whatever that draft spec was nor is he really willing to elaborate much on his gamestate read. But that's just something townies don't do is it? You see townies add on their case constantly and let it evolve, but the core of the scumread isn't just something town forget in what? ~span of 24 hours?

idk dude maybe I'm just rambling but I figured making a post like this would be helpful since I appear not to be in the minority, but literally the sole person here who sees this.

And you think ScumFL, year of 2019 alone won 10 scum games, would be that obvious about flip flopping?

I mean comments like these, which I can probably find at least one more in your iso and many of your games are extremely effective and well - manipulative, though probably not AI so its best I don't case them up because you will do stuff like this on both sides.

I just want to make sure everyone here doesn't just buy into comments like these as evidence why Flavor Leaf is town.

Because if you break it down, it just leads to a bit of weird logic where nothing can really be incriminating to Flavor Leaf because Flavor Leaf wouldn't be this obvious, right? Like operating under this assumption just leads to WIFOM and self doubt because well, its like the RC argument where nothing is really incriminating to RC because scum!RC would've done x,y,z and won the game already. Like nothing can really stick to Flavor Leaf being scum because Flavor Leaf wouldn't be this obvious! Is the conclusion that would be drawn from this every time.

It's annoying and it works but before you go on and tell me why something like flip flopping is a special case that makes sense I'd like to tell you that as town Flavor Leaf has done this and it worked decently well where he was able to dodge lynches since he went back to the scum!Flavor isn't this obvious right. And Flavor as either alignment can pick that up and use it for future games so its not really AI.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons as to why a scum!Flavor just would've messed up here, or did a calculated play. I mean results-based analysis is the devil and all, but nobody is really considering him to be scum from these flops, I mean you have people townreading him for it and you even have people like AaronFrost who literally want me to go point out why flip flopping and wifom logic is scum motivated. Well, flip flopping by itself isn't really that scum motivated, its a lot more contextual than just saying Flavor Leaf flip flopped so he must be scum -that isn't what I'm arguing here, flip flopping isn't AI. Its the fact that he is conveniently leaving out details to push me in a way that contradicts his flip flop is what, in my eyes, so damning. You can of course tack on the whole chaos and confusion argument as well here, but that's a different premise as to why Flavor is scum that isn't going to be explored here. I want to just focus on this aspect of Flavor's game here, and why you shouldn't just buy into this crap, it works, he knows it works, and he's re-labelling my argument and boiling it down into a slightly morphed argument that is more easily defended against.

@hectic if you read these posts carefully i also explain stuff wrt you i promise

[Ankamius]

I think I'm going to start actually reading on d2

My mindspace is fucked

[Flavor Leaf]

You see scumMe would have read all those posts

[Ankamius]

FL

Why

Just why

[Ankamius]

I don't understand why you feel the need to make posts that are absolutely meaningless to everybody

You're really not helping the game be any more readable

[Flavor Leaf]

Hectic played against Scum Rick Fucking Dalton, who’s 3-0 in win/record btw, as is Pretentious.

ScumMe don’t gotta leave out anything and will still get you lynched.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't understand why you feel the need to make posts that are absolutely meaningless to everybody

You're really not helping the game be any more readable

Oh, it will...it will, shark bait hoo ha haw.

[Flavor Leaf]

And we should have had a lynch 70 pages ago, we should be in day 3 by now

[Ankamius]

I don't understand why you feel the need to make posts that are absolutely meaningless to everybody

You're really not helping the game be any more readable

Oh, it will...it will, shark bait hoo ha haw.

I've never seen this but I've seen you make games unreadable just as often now as you did like 3 years ago

[OkaPoka]

Hey ank wanna you know

[Ankamius]

do I even want to try to figure out what that even means

[Flavor Leaf]

3 years ago was my FL year, and I was rock in’ games at that time.

Maybe like 5 years ago.

I also NEVER got mislynched 3 years ago, I went 2+ years not, and I also had a 2+year scum undefeated streak, lost Magical Stories team mafia because fuck Dreaming God, and then went on another year and a half without losing.

So :shrug: