Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[skitter30]

Do u wanna like place a vote or push scum or something ... ?

[skitter30]

Or say what ur solve is or who you're not willing to vote or like do anything at all ... ?

[Aristophanes]

Sure thing!

Do u wanna like place a vote or push scum or something ... ?

First off,
VOTE: shos

I should have done that a while ago bit didn't want to L1 it at that point.

I don't remember if I've actively made a case there but I thknk I've been pretty clear on it.

I asked my team to look at him too and give me thoughts, and Airo picked out some good stuff, some I've def said before and aome that is good insight.
5912 is damning as a readslist if the scumteam is Saudade, shos, Flopz. Leaving them both essentially blank is a big move tho and I'm not totally sold on the trio from this alone. But shos/Saudade is damning from it imo.

Shos said a NL was best and feasible when Saud was at L-1.

Shos kept vanity votes through the Saud wagon.

It just kind of makes too much sense to ignore.

Or say what ur solve is or who you're not willing to vote or like do anything at all ... ?

Saud/shos/flopz or xtoxm seems realistically the only options and I haven't read much of xtoxm but also was reminded of the neighborhood claim. If not xtoxm I can only see Math as the last scum and while I can't shake that I can't pursue it realistically for now.

The rest of you are townreads and pretty locked into that.

[Iconeum]

how are you reading flopz again?

i'm solidly regretting not keeping paper notes for this game

[Iconeum]

There's a ton of incriminating stuff that all points to scum!shos (posted it all before, his stances on his scumreads/townreads, his Association to the saud lynch).
But it *feels* wrong if you know what I mean?

The Great Dragon God knows i've been guilty of this plenty times before as town myself.

@Everyone: pop quiz

If shos is scum, where/who is the counterwagon?
If shos is town, why isn't it easier to lynch him?

[shos]

Sure thing!

Do u wanna like place a vote or push scum or something ... ?

First off,
VOTE: shos

I should have done that a while ago bit didn't want to L1 it at that point.

I don't remember if I've actively made a case there but I thknk I've been pretty clear on it.

I asked my team to look at him too and give me thoughts, and Airo picked out some good stuff, some I've def said before and aome that is good insight.
5912 is damning as a readslist if the scumteam is Saudade, shos, Flopz. Leaving them both essentially blank is a big move tho and I'm not totally sold on the trio from this alone. But shos/Saudade is damning from it imo.

Shos said a NL was best and feasible when Saud was at L-1.

Shos kept vanity votes through the Saud wagon.

It just kind of makes too much sense to ignore.

Or say what ur solve is or who you're not willing to vote or like do anything at all ... ?

Saud/shos/flopz or xtoxm seems realistically the only options and I haven't read much of xtoxm but also was reminded of the neighborhood claim. If not xtoxm I can only see Math as the last scum and while I can't shake that I can't pursue it realistically for now.

The rest of you are townreads and pretty locked into that.

Isn't that a counterargument tho?
Shosscum would bus saudade or push some viable counterwagons, not put. Avanity vote or call for a NL. Also I'm not sure you've been reading, I still am pushing the NL even tho there is no more saudade

[shos]

If shos is town, why isn't it easier to lynch him?

Sadly I think literally everyone expressed their will to vote me, but the townies aren't sure and the scum don't want to be held accountable perhaps

I'll be on a conference abroad next week so may as well Lynch me before Saturday

[Iconeum]

I still am pushing the NL even tho there is no more saudade

for the sake of argument, here's my position on the NL again:

There is a chance we no lynch on the next day. That is only if we mislynch today.

You are wrong in wanting a no lynch earlier than that, because yesterday and today there are easy NK's for scum to make (bella and me).
By waiting and shrinking the pool, we force scum into a tighter selection for their kill, feeding us information.

If you no lynch earlier, you gain little to no information.

[Iconeum]

i think there's a decent chance you are not the lynch today, shos

[Iconeum]

@7874: clearly it did buy him most of the game's townreads based on this logcal fallacy. Add the unprovability of anything said in that context and chaching? Profit!

Also if you really want some hard scumreads, my current go is VOTE: math and xtomx/Ari as partner.

i'm confused why you're going math over xtoxm here given ur xtoxm stance

shos can you answer this?

[shos]

Who is, then?

And I'm going for Math right now because his recent posting feels scummy to me. It's not wrong, it is actually scummy. It's like a scummer trying to look like he's doing something, so he goes and picks up random shit with excuses. The two scumslips he tried to force on me are extremely bad, for example. Xtom is just horribly bad

[Iconeum]

Who is, then?

And I'm going for Math right now because his recent posting feels scummy to me. It's not wrong, it is actually scummy. It's like a scummer trying to look like he's doing something, so he goes and picks up random shit with excuses. The two scumslips he tried to force on me are extremely bad, for example. Xtom is just horribly bad

You are only taking recent events into consideration. Nothing else. You've been pushing xtoxm lynch next to your NL for the majority of the game. Now you want to lynch math? After you explicitely said math is very likely scum with RCE, who flipped town.

That's also my point about your reads not reconsidering.

Him pushing that supposed scumslip, do you really scumread that? What stops town!math from pushing that? What's so scummy about it?
Do you think scum!math NEEDS that slip to push you? He was waaay longer pushing you then that slip.

And I expect you to understand that if ur tunneled in on someone, anything that player does, how silly it may look to someone else (eg slip), is exponentially worse then it might actually be.

But you aren't considering any of this. Ur not trying to sort math either. Like literally this:

'math pushes a wrong idea on me, that wasn't a scumslip at all, therefore math is scum'

While you had a huge interest in lynching xtoxm for actual reasons throughout the game, that ur now ignoring.


Your progression isn't town at all.

[Iconeum]

Who is, then?

I'm really really tempted to go Ari.

[teacher]

Come to me.

[teacher]

(as in come to Ari with me)

[Iconeum]

Ari pushed saud pretty hard tho

not saying it's impossible that was a bus

and shos has soooo much stuff that can get him lynched, including his Association to the saud lynch

ehhhh

[shos]

Ico, your have repeatedly repeated that reconsider thing but you're not listening so I'll make it very clear:

THERE WAS NO ASSOCIATION BETWEEN RCE AND MATH. THOSE READS WERE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER.

[Iconeum]

gut feeling: if we lynch ari and that's town, it becomes reasonable to asume shos+teacher?

if we lynch ari and that's scum, then shos remains a likely partner, or else flopz?

i'm past considering skitter as scum
xtoxm has an outside shot for being scum i guess?

shos+xtoxm is not impossible, seeing how hard shos scumread him without ever really pushing

[Iconeum]

Ico, your have repeatedly repeated that reconsider thing but you're not listening so I'll make it very clear:

THERE WAS NO ASSOCIATION BETWEEN RCE AND MATH. THOSE READS WERE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER.

your iso disagrees with you?

Adding this to the 'scumslip' Math caught me in

VOTE: Math

I'm more sure of this now actually his partner probably RCE

[Iconeum]

so who's in the lynchpool for the coming days:

shos/ari tier 1
flopz/xtoxm tier 2

ico/teacher/skitter/math all town

we lynch in either shos/ari today

if we hit town, lynch the other tomorrow (alternatively no lynch and have scum reduce the pool?)

if we hit scum, you guys can start looking for more association with more information

[Iconeum]

i just reread all vote counts for this day

lynching shos (or pushing him) is a LOT harder then I thought it actually was. I had a feeling it was too easy, but it's definitely not.
It got to 3 votes at it's peak (L-1), with me on it (xtoxm + math).

If this is a town lynch it would have gotten further, faster? no?

[shos]

Now to the rest of the post
Re: only recent events - yes. I am well aware of this and have noted that in the past, if you recall. All and any D2 events, for example, I barely remember at all. What I do remember is what I felt about people. If I forget something and want to remind myself why I think that, I read my own posts and see what I refer to. But that rarely happens rn anyway.

So yes, recent events. Is there something that happened in the past which you want me to specifically address? Or is it just a general 'ur not doing enough if ur town' thing? Because I do admit and have admitted that I was lazy this game, mainly because I don't know where to start if I begin not being lazy. (And ofc time is of the essence)

Re:math.
Those scumslips feel extremely forced, imo. It of course can be that I am biased because I know I'm town, but those were just an easy example. Go and reread his case on me. When I read it, I had a big big WTF bubble over my head which I had to hide from my co-workers, lol. ALL of the arguments presented there, were imo, horrendously bad and arguably forced. Go read, seriously. I'm that confident. Let's get everyone's attention on the case on me, please. If any of you think those points are valid, go ahead and make the vote. That was utter crap, and I don't see town! Math making such a case, especially because I know math IS an able town player. Next

Re tunnel - you are probably right. Did math tunnel my slot beforehand? Or is the tunnel based on my play? Because a serious lol if it began because of me

You keep saying my progression sucks to you, but I don't understand this. Do you expect me to change my reads all the time? Or not? Me wanting to Lynch xtomx has not changed, I don't know why you think it has. Wanting several people dead is sort of... A must?

[shos]

Ico, your have repeatedly repeated that reconsider thing but you're not listening so I'll make it very clear:

THERE WAS NO ASSOCIATION BETWEEN RCE AND MATH. THOSE READS WERE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER.

your iso disagrees with you?

Adding this to the 'scumslip' Math caught me in

VOTE: Math

I'm more sure of this now actually his partner probably RCE

I'll read it to you with the tone so that you understand finally
Who is scum?
Math! I'm now more sure of that
Who is scum with him?
Ehhhh I dunno, probably RCE

[Iconeum]

I don't see town! Math making such a case, especially because I know math IS an able town player

I know of at least 1 player this game (who flipped town), that strongly disagrees with this.

[Iconeum]

shos, question for you.

If you had to choose between voting and lynching Ari, or being the lynch yourself.

What is your choice?