Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[SpyreX]

With all that in mind, I'd like to see DBE / IM / Hammertime. Any of the above would just be swimmingly.

[Mirth]

Sigh. I don't feel like typing a gagillion quote breaks...

62. Says she's not going to believe my claim right away.

Sooooo I'm suspicious for not believing you right away? how is this a good reason?

Of course its not because you didn't believe ME. That, implicitly, means that you DO believe DBE's claim (else it would be I dont know who to believe, or I don't believe either of them, etc).

Closer to I dont know who to believe.

64. Says almost all her posts have the French AND its too obvious a role to fake (says its too iconic) It is.

If scum is going to fake claim, theyre going to claim something not immediately recognizable by everyone.

Possibly. However, part of this isn't the issue of the fake claim - it is you're giving credence again to DBE telling the truth and me being the liar or there being 2 taunters. Considering how this is going, it bothers me.

Except I'm not taking a position here. You must concede that scum would have to be pretty dumb to claim something that is not obscure in a closed flavored set up. I don't like assuming scum are dumb.

66. Asks what if we're both scum. Makes the statement: One dead as scum confirms the other.

This is conjecture. Why do you find this suspicious?

I misread this (I blame Luigi). I read it as one dead as scum confirms the other (as scum)

Fine.

2.) Although I agree, Mirth has pushed and pushed for Ironman's claim. There's been a fixation there.

I think he's the single scummiest person here. Darla is primarily scummy because you counterclaimed her, he is scummy of his own accord.

You see nothing scummy in DBE's play aside from me counterclaiming her? I'm not arguing the IM point (his play has been atrocious) but I've said that DBE has had some scummy behavior most of this game.

Darla is mildly scum if not for the counterclaim. She had not been posting content, yes, but her lack of content was surely not as outstanding as Chenhsi's lack of content. Were it not for the counterclaim I would not even be considering her as a day 1 lynch. Not saying she's been playing well, just generally not poorly enough to really stand out much day 1. (Iron Man, Chenhsi, and Killa Seven are doing that)

67. Mentions we dont know if the scum have safeclaims (obviously)

Not obviously since you kept saying you know cum don't have fake claims

My obviously was supposed to be on the fact we dont know. Obviously we dont, only they would.

I know what your obviously meant. My point here is that you have not been acting like we don't know. You have been asserting they don't. Unlike you, I don't think a dead scum Darla would prove anything one way or the other about safe claims.

86. Suggests its good of Darla modkills herself and the day doesn't end.

It is. Darla dies, we save a lynch, and can use that lynch on someone else. Like Iron Man.

This one I'm not going to budge on. Asking to have someone modkill themselves is never a good idea. On top of it, I honestly feel it is very scummy behavior:

I feel the following statements are very true:
1.) Scum are, individually, more important for the scum's success than townies are because there are fewer of them.
2.) Scum are, definitely, going to want to obfuscate and keep information hidden from the town.
3.) Scum are not going to help the town.

Therefore, in requesting for a player to modkill themselves:
1.) They have to be willing to sacrifice themselves to help the town.

Thus, ultimately, only a townie will actively modkill themselves. Scum have no reason to give the town an extra lynch between cycles.

So, in asking for a modkill, you are presenting a situation where only a townie will do it. Also, it doesn't serve as a decent gambit because there are many reasons why a townie wouldn't do it as well. Modkills, ultimately, benefit the scum.

I disagree with you here. Part of it is a test. If this was the plan we followed, and Darla refused to be modkilled, she would be lynched anyway, so there would be no loss. Since Darla would be lynched anyway, a modkill even if Darla turned up town would save us a night phase (thus less dead townies from scum kills) because we wouldn't have to wait for the scum to take their turn to kill before lynching again. If Darla is to die anyway, which seems to be the case it is best for her to die in a manner that benefits town more, that is giving the town an extra lynch. However this matter is void because the mod would probably go into night if we forced a modkill. In that case it would be worse than a lynch.

90. Suggests if its a fakeclaim why not go for one better known. Again, out of context.

If Darla is a Jester trying to get herself killed and not scum trying to survive, she'd need to go for something that is really really really obvious. While French Taunter is far more iconic than something like Mr. Hilter, he's no where near as iconic as Dead Parrot Guy.

On a fundamental level, you've said both sides of the same coin. If a role is to iconic for scum to claim, it is iconic enough for a jester to claim. I dont see a difference here.

Disagree here. Scum need to be extra super cautious. If there's even the remote possibility of a role existing, they should steer clear. Jester needs to be as reckless as possible. The scum caution threshold is not the same as the Jester recklessness threshold, because the Jester has nothing to lose.

4.) Really, hasn't built a case.

On whom do you wish me to build a case? I think I've been pretty clear in my Iron Man hate. I do not see lynching him as smarter than lynching Darla.

I dont CARE who you build a case on. I just like having the cases. Hell, it could be on me, but the points and logical conclusions that lead you to it is very important to have. I know your stance on Ironman and you've said it in some places, but a point by point never hurts. (because maybe we see different things, or different takes, etc).

I'm not going to be repeating myself day 1. As I see it, day 1 is mostly for getting the most information out of the most number of people as possible. Which is what I'm trying to do with my questioning and vote hopping. Im not going to do a PBPA because I do not feel anyone warrants one *yet*. My case on Iron Man has been stated multiple times, the only thing apparently lacking for you is quotes, since I believe the points are clear.

h.) Suggests I'm lyncher - again, pushing for a lynch on me tomorrow?

Yes, I suggested this. Just like you suggested Darla is a Jester. Both of these are far fetched and ridiculous. Even though you are clearly twisting my words around, I don't actually want you lynched tomorrow unless Darla comes up town.

Honestly, I dont think Lyncher OR Jester are as rediculous flavorwise in MP as other things and, to me, DBE's play considering I do not believe there to be two taunters it would make sense. But, this latter part clears up some confusion (as I've said before).

They're not commonly used roles. If you're going to bring up one, I'm going to bring up the other to point that out.

Ok, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the fact both LG and Mirth have ignored what, to me, feels like the Razor in this case bothers me. The fact that both have said, outright, if I am right then I am scum and should be lynched, really bothers me.

Again, I DID NOT SAY THIS. I said one dead scum confirms the other. As town. Learn to read.

The AS TOWN was not there. I accept I made a mistake but "learn to read" sure doesn't do anything at all. Your original statement, obviously, could be construed both ways.

I believe in the context it was written in it was pretty evident I meant the as town part.

However, that was a big part of my WTF, so with that cleared up I am much less suspicious. You are saying what the obvious Razor is and I am fine with that.

So, with that misconception out of the way not everything was building a OMG scum case, most were just key points in your posting either way. I posted it partially to get some clarifications and I got it.

So, yep, I can read. Nope, I sure wasn't trying to pull you out of context. Notice I didn't even vote for you - but those things struck me as odd so I addressed them. Thank you for clearing a lot of them up.

I did notice you weren't voting for me. I'm going to withhold judgment on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing for now. Your case, even if not meant to say I'm 100% scum, came off as taking me out of context *and* a bit OMGUSy because you apparently thought I wanted you lynched.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

What more content can I add Lord Gurgi?

I've said I dont like Iron Man's play and I stand by that. Chenhsi is being almost as bad with his one liner n00b-esq posting, and spyrex is leading haphazard lynch.

When you're at L-1 on D1 in a large game you get kinda depressed especially when no one believes your claim.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Darla, if you/spyrex are the victim of some bastard moddery, I'm sorry, but that really does seem unlikely.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

well I KNOW that I am a Taunter, If Spyrex is too I will curse the bastardary..(sp?)

[The Internet]

Sorry about being V/LA again, but I will be out from midday today 'till midday sunday. I might be able get on in the evenings, so I might not be entirely out.

[elvis_knits]

I have to catch up.

[elvis_knits]

Dear town,

I've got a question for you. I HAVE to use my night action to taunt. I've got a couple people I'm thinking of.

1.) Would you like me to say who and why.
2.) Would you like me to just say who I am going to taunt, without reason.
3.) Would you like me to just do it, and not say a word?

I don't think you should say who you want to target. If you're targetting scum and tell them ahead of time, they'll just NK you.

Also, I think it's much more helpful in the long run to keep it a secret and see if you can catch anyone in a lie later.

[elvis_knits]

@chenhsi and Killa7,

what do you two guys think of the recent claim vs claim situation that has been going on? Who do you believe is town and/or scum and why? Do you think it is possible both are scum? Do you think its possible both are town?

I don't feel either of them is the lynch today, but they should comment on the current situation. A wagon on one of them would be better saved for tomorrow since it can distract things from what I feel is more important.

Chenhsi seems very unhelpful in other games as well. Not that that makes him town. Pressure on this guy could be good though because otherwise I'm not sure we're ever gonna get anything from him.

[elvis_knits]

The things that bother me about this whole deal:
1.) Mirth has had a fixation with the PR's in general; moreso than anyone else.
2.) Although I agree, Mirth has pushed and pushed for Ironman's claim. There's been a fixation there.
3.) Has a very high noise-to-signal ratio this game.
4.) Really, hasn't built a case.
5.) The early votejumping also seems odd.

6.) The whole DBE scenario:
a.) Mirth, before DBE claimed, claimed the French Guard for her.
b.) She says that, with all of the roles in MP, a faked role will not be counterclaimed.
c.) 64 and 90 are in direct opposition with each other (Taunter wouldn't be faked because it is too iconic, Taunter wouldn't be faked because it isn't iconic enough)
d.) Pushing for the modkill. I really, in retrospect, do not like this. It's not how mafia should be played AND, of course, in that unlikely scenario I'm wrong and we're both actually Taunters if the day doesn't end that'd probably be two Town power roles gone before night 1. Who does that benefit the most?
e.) Makes the same claim Luigi does earlier: we are both scum in a gambit and if one turns up scum both should be lynched (I've talked about this enough)
f.) Mostly ignores the arguments (mostly by me) showing the myraid of differences in DBE's restrictions and punishments versus the other PR players.
g.) Says she's willing to lynch Darla - however, and with everything else this bothers me, doesn't really give the exact reasons and, ultimately, doesn't say its because she thinks DBE is scum (alluding to the both of us scum strategy).
h.) Suggests I'm lyncher - again, pushing for a lynch on me tomorrow?

Ok, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the fact both LG and Mirth have ignored what, to me, feels like the Razor in this case bothers me. The fact that both have said, outright, if I am right then I am scum and should be lynched,

really

bothers me.

Again, I am not suggesting either Mirth or LG (or Chen) for lynches today. Its got to be DBE. I dont like this plan they have for tomorrow.

About mirth -- I can see some of what you are saying but I am drawing different conclusions about it. I see the interest in PR's as more of a help to the game and an effort to lessen confusion. Could she be fishing, I guess. But with all the craziness going on, I don't think it's bad to try to figure some stuff out. Scum are probably ahead of us on that front anyway, so I don't think it really helps the scum too much.

Some of the other things I think are good points. The interest in getting DBE modkill is sort of weird, but then again farside also felt that was a good idea. Taken with the early high number of vote jumping it could suggest bloodlust without so much caring who ends up dying -- which is a scum mindset.

I'm not really sold on it though. I think that mirth has been one of the more active players and the game has had a lot of swings and reversals and revelations, so that could be why she has voted so many people.

I think we should keep all that in mind though and keep an eye on her.

[elvis_knits]

About DBE, I think she is the lynch for today, because I can't see their being two french taunters. Even if there were two french taunters I can't believe they would have different PR's and roles. I would think they would have the same role if they have the same character. I can't see a way for them both to be telling the truth.

I'm not sure of the VC, so I won't vote yet. Are we close to lynch? Are people willing to end the day?

[farside22]

I think the last vote count had DBE at L-2. Mirth is waiting for Iron Man to come and clarify his role. I'm also waiting on Iron Man for his I see DBE is the vote and just votes without knowing why. That is every anti town. I fear Iron Man may need to be replaced (if he isn't picking up is prod or posting at this point) to get the game moving a bit.

[shaft.ed]

Vote Count:

DarlaBlueEyes

(7) SpyreX, PokerFace, TheSweatpantsNinja, Lord Gurgi, Muerrto, Iron Man, JordanA24

chenhsi

(5) Mirth, killa seven, farside22

Luigi Gangsta

(1) elvis_knits

JordanA24

(1) The Internet

Bruce

(1) imaginality

Iron Man

(1) DarlaBlueEyes

Not voting

(Luigi Gangsta, chenhsi, strappado, Azimuth)

With 18 alive it's 10 to lynch and 9 to No Lynch.

[farside22]

Mod: Have you prodeded Iron Man?

I've noticed some posting and received some inquiries about Iron Man's activity. He was prod'ed last night and picked up said prod. He has over 48 hours to post before replacement.

That is all.

[SpyreX]

Mirth, I'm almost done. In rereading everything after some sleep most of what I have issues with is taken care of. Just a couple of things.

I know what your obviously meant. My point here is that you have not been acting like we don't know. You have been asserting they don't. Unlike you, I don't think a dead scum Darla would prove anything one way or the other about safe claims.

I guess I misused my pronouns. We (the town) dont know. Considering I know my role and my alignment and DBE has claimed both the same as I have and I absolutely do not think there are two taunters in this game I, with my added knowledge of my own role, can make the conclusion that scum very highly do not have safe claims.

I disagree with you here. Part of it is a test. If this was the plan we followed, and Darla refused to be modkilled, she would be lynched anyway, so there would be no loss. Since Darla would be lynched anyway, a modkill even if Darla turned up town would save us a night phase (thus less dead townies from scum kills) because we wouldn't have to wait for the scum to take their turn to kill before lynching again. If Darla is to die anyway, which seems to be the case it is best for her to die in a manner that benefits town more, that is giving the town an extra lynch. However this matter is void because the mod would probably go into night if we forced a modkill. In that case it would be worse than a lynch.

In your statement itself is why I feel requesting a modkill is scummy.
If Darla refuses to modkill herself, we lynch her as scum (even though town would also, chances are, not want to modkill themselves)
If Darla modkills herself (something I really think only a town would do in 95% of situations), we have another lynch for the day and IF that ends up with another town dead the scum have a good head start (and, on day 1 barring situations like what happened with Darla, there is a good chance of mislynching a town)
Also, I may not have played a lot of games, but I have read quite a few. I have not ever, ever seen a game where the person who requested a modkill ended up with a town role. Asking for modkills is, to me, going to be a huge scummy flag.

I did notice you weren't voting for me. I'm going to withhold judgment on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing for now. Your case, even if not meant to say I'm 100% scum, came off as taking me out of context *and* a bit OMGUSy because you apparently thought I wanted you lynched.

I honestly wasn't trying to take you out of context. Also, my thought process (why I went back and reread went like this).
1.) I've had my suspicions since you asked about the modkill (thats the one thing I still do).
2.) Reading PF's post I saw you both mention the Taunter being too iconic for scum and not iconic enough for a potential jester which struck me as off.
3.) When I said that she may be a jester based on the way this has went your reply of well you may be a lyncher sat off to me (that is really the OMGUS part).
4.) I decided to do a full reread and misread that one line which, of course, colored other readings.

So, yes, although there is still SOME suspicious (to me) behavior I dont have qualms saying I over analyzed. Can we be friends again <3.

I've said I dont like Iron Man's play and I stand by that. Chenhsi is being almost as bad with his one liner n00b-esq posting, and spyrex is leading haphazard lynch.

How is this lynch haphazard?

[shaft.ed]

Does the level of participation make one believe that people are losing interest in Monty Python?

Perhaps this randomly selectedsketch will peak your interest.

[Mirth]

I am here. Still waiting for Iron Man to explain himself.

[Iron Man]

Sorry, just been distracted with other games at the moment. Getting my HM up and running, about to be lynched in another game, and really behind in two others. I'll try to get back into this game later tonight if I have time.

[Lord Gurgi]

Albatross!

Just been waiting for Iron Man, who could get moving.

Albatross!

[SpyreX]

I'm just waiting for something to happen. I haven't lost interest.

[Mirth]

Iron Man, I still want to know the following:
1. Do you think your claim was justified?
2. The rest of your claim
3. Why you jumped on Luigi like a lemming off a cliff?
4. Why you jumped on Darla without actually having read the thread?

[Azimuth]

Also still here, still reading, still waiting for IM, still three days until my busy time ends.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Post, waiting for Iron Man, etc. etc.

[farside22]

I really don't want to see this game die because one player doesn't want to or doesn't have time to respond.

unvote:
vote: DBE

Tomorrow if IM doesn't respond today will be the person I look the hardest at.

[Lord Gurgi]

Albatross!

Now we learn if Imaginality's vote actually counts. Anything else?

Albatross!