Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[shos]

IT IS OVER

NINE

EIGHT THOUSAND!!!!!!

[implosion]

Spoiler: cornichon and old lace

Vote Count 4.7

shos

(3): MathBlade, Xtoxm, Aristophanes

Aristophanes

(3): teacher, Iconeum, skitter30

MathBlade

(1): shos

Not Voting (1): Flopz

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to 1:00 AM PST on the 20th, in (expired on 2020-02-20 05:00:00).

If anyone's having trouble finding the thread, or other team mafia threads in these... confusing times, FYI UT made a post in the global announcement thread for team mafia (which you can get to from anywhere, since it's a global announcement) with a link to the TM2020 subforum.

[Xtoxm]

so thats functionally l-1
i dont understand the level of resistance to shos
wonder if that means something
hmmmmmm cant quite tell

[shos]

huh?

[Aristophanes]

And shos, NL is a good plan but not at this moment. It is for when mylo hits or is nigh. Not when we are up in town numbers! Give your head a shake!

LOL
how can you be any more 'nigh' than now you're one mislynch away from mylo

We are 2 mislynches away from mylo are we not?

[Aristophanes]

Also I am so weirded out by shos not voting me atm

[teacher]

And shos, NL is a good plan but not at this moment. It is for when mylo hits or is nigh. Not when we are up in town numbers! Give your head a shake!

LOL
how can you be any more 'nigh' than now you're one mislynch away from mylo

We are 2 mislynches away from mylo are we not?

presumptively 6:2 now. ML+NK=4:2 Mylo tomorrow. 1 mislynch.

[skitter30]

I've said almost everything I can because this game, despite the length and plethora of new posts, just circles back to the same base arguments over and over.

I have my PoE pool, it's unlikely to change unless a townflip on shos occurs and I highly doubt that.

Soneone asked where the counterwagon on shos was today, and the answer is that it was being built and pushed, but not voted. It was me all along.

i guess i have a few problems with this:

a) your view of the gamestate just seems to be so very different than mine? i don't think we've been wandering around in circles as much recently than as in during the rc era. and your motivation / interest is markedly different before and after the scum lynch. like you feel demotivated and just kinda uninterested now, and i'm kinda confused why that's happened at the point of the game where i feel like town would get more invigorated, not less.

b) the hammer was ... not good and i'm not sure your day1 and day2 outweigh your days3 and 4

c) your townreads are the people wagoning you so i'm kinda confused about your cw point. if shos is scum, who is pushing the cw to him exactly?

[skitter30]

Defaulting to town but i dont like it

Whats ur read on me

town.
you feel 'normal' in the way you did in eg CB/SC1, but you havent gone obvtown mode like youre capable of, if that makes sense

ive been kinda paranoid to tr you in games, since ive still never seen your scum game, but i have the sense that its gonna be strong

this feels hedgy

[skitter30]

Also I am so weirded out by shos not voting me atm

yes, it's kinda baffling ...

[skitter30]

reminder i'm vla weekends and may not be around again until saturday night

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: cornichon and old lace

Vote Count 4.7

shos

(3): MathBlade, Xtoxm, Aristophanes

Aristophanes

(3): teacher, Iconeum, skitter30

MathBlade

(1): shos

Not Voting (1): Flopz

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to end the day.
Deadline is set to 1:00 AM PST on the 20th, in (expired on 2020-02-20 05:00:00).

If anyone's having trouble finding the thread, or other team mafia threads in these... confusing times, FYI UT made a post in the global announcement thread for team mafia (which you can get to from anywhere, since it's a global announcement) with a link to the TM2020 subforum.

I feel like I am dreaming regarding this VC.

@Flopz what do you think?

[Iconeum]

math i don't wanna lynch shos right now

he just really feels town? the way he responds to stuff is just… natural?

[Iconeum]

Also I am so weirded out by shos not voting me atm

yes, it's kinda baffling ...

what do you guys *actually* make of it?

[Aristophanes]

math i don't wanna lynch shos right now

he just really feels town? the way he responds to stuff is just… natural?

You're wrong but *shrugs*

[MathBlade]

math i don't wanna lynch shos right now

he just really feels town? the way he responds to stuff is just… natural?

Uhm no? It doesn’t.

And even if it was natural that’s still not a good argument as scum can *gasp* tell the truth!

[Iconeum]

Yeah well.

I'm kinda done trying to work with you. You have been on opposite sides of me for pretty much the entire game.

[Flopz]

Thanks for the well wishes, everything is being taken care of.

My position hasn't really changed since I disappeared. I feel like Shos is acting Scummy while I also feel that there's like a weird undercurrent of Townieness to their posting.

And Ari is just a massive void of nothingness reads wise, I didn't disagree with their reasoning for voting RCE but the way it was done was really suspect and didn't leave me with good feelings.

Teacher are you going to do the Ari associative thing because I've kind of been waiting for that. At this moment I'm leaning closer to Ari than Shos.

[shos]

Alright it's time for cw ahoy.
No point in voting math. That will not happen today
I kinda think no other Lynch will happen today either and nobody's on board with NL so

VOTE: Ari

[teacher]

Teacher are you going to do the Ari associative thing because I've kind of been waiting for that

Sorry, I thought it was for skit and they came around anyways. Sure Ill do it in a bit.

[MathBlade]

Yeah well.

I'm kinda done trying to work with you. You have been on opposite sides of me for pretty much the entire game.

Uhm no? We were both on RCE. The only times we diverged were Ari, Saud, and then you have deviated from “shos” because “natural” which is not a thing. If you have an actual reason shos is town I would consider it but there’s so much more that says he is scum.

Second of all both these wagons are on scumreads so I am good with either one. I am *this* close to convincing Titus to let me hammer. I’d prefer shos but Ari will confirm if shos/Ari or shos/Flopz so I am good with either

[teacher]

Welcome to the Ari-Trisaudade associative show.

For our opening act, we offer this vintage RC:

Spoiler:

Alright let's do this so this is why Ari is scum.

Intriguing.

I am an easy pocket so I'm going to stay strong in this, but I like where you're coming from as this develops.

This post categorically comes from scum significantly more often than town.
There's a

kung fu movies

Pocket attempt denied that I think of a lot referencing this but I don't remember the name of the game anymore.
I claim that g enerally dismissing townreads on you as 'pocketing' when they come from people you're not townreading points to scum more often than town.
On top of that it itself doesn't make sense as town given the 'i like where ur coming from but Im gonna vote you anyway.'
But it does make sense as scum because you want to assign value to townreads on you while simultaneously keeping your mislynch open, which is what Ari is doing here.

Maybe I stated that badly. You don't seem ruffled. Your responses just sounded a but defensive and the followups a tad contrived.

Also literally anything can come from scum sometimes. Town tells can come from scum sometimes! This is so empty.

This is just... so bad? A bit defensive and a tad contrived is such weak phrasing plus dismissing all of scumhunting with 'ooh scum can towntell too' (and I've seen that post from scum several times and from town only once I think?) just doesn't feel like a good faith attempt to sort Tris.

Meh, I like Math for town atm. Good strong read tbh.

Sorry RC.

Also signing off for the night now so eho knows when I'll be back. Meme away in my absence plz <3

Ari knows that I'm a better scumhunter than he is and generally doesn't have the kind of personality where he's going to go against me if he disagrees.
For him to go this far defending Mathblade (ignoring the fact that hard townreading Mathblade seems... implausible) is extremely uncharacteristic and to me points to him being scum.
Could make sense as trying to rack up townpoints for a correct townread or not wanting to vote a buddy.

Tris, Plum, Skitter scumteam. Calling it now.

And seriously on the same general line as before but without you having to take 'Ari respects RC' as a thing because I'm sure there's people who will
since when is fucking ARI declaring these confident calling it nows on early pages of the game, like what? his confidence in his reads is way out of whack for being just back. that rhymes.

but yea this is scum

So that’s the stand alone case, but it also involves a heck of a lot of Tris associatives and quotes. Here is more on the associatives.

This is entirely possible! Tris is my biggest thought for filling that last spot and if not Teach then Xtoxm seems likely just via lack of evidence against it.

I am going to give RCE a far better read at some point and maybe sniff out some associatives because they are the most likely active scum I can find and I would love to land the lynch there once we're all ready.

this is just one of many posts but

so many times from both Ari/Skitter they suggest Tris as scum and then find a reason to vote/push elsewhere

And again.

i just really need to talk to Ari/Teacher/Skitter

Yooooo

Sup?

Basically?

Your entire in thread trajectory suggests that you should be voting Tris/Saudade, your associatives aren't great, Tris refused to vote you yesterday at deadline, but you have declined to vote Saudade in situations where you really should have ended up voting him several times and in an increasingly narrow pool of people who can potentially be scum, you stand out as a buddy to him.

I can't force you to vote Saudade here but if you don't I'm basically going to assume that you're scum and go after him with everything I've got.

So most of the initial scumread was based of Ari-Tris interactions, and RC’s conclusion – that there was hard distancing between the two slots without backup – is proven throughout the thread. Ari scumreads the Trisaudade slot consistently…..

Spoiler: Ari scumreads

Heya!
This is all based on my outgoing thoughts when I last checked in but...

Math
TW
RC

e'rbody not listed because ???

Teacher

Skitter
Tris
Plum

Tris still looks scummy and Iunno why I'm bothering to read things because my reads have remained unchanged from my initial perceptions of people and things

Lean Scum: Teacher, Flopz, Plum, Tris

Plum is suspect #1 atm, but Tris and Flopz are up there. In fact Flopz's latest posting has made them jump in scum equity imo.

Started with Tris. Tris, can you do something? Anything? Your Iso is almost devoid of content and what little there is is devoid of reasoning. It's impossible to know your motivations when you don't present them and I don't know what to ask other than "what are your current reads and why?" because you barely even gave past reads or anything worth commenting on.
Do something.

I don't think it's Teacher.

I think it's Tris RCE Xtoxm

This is entirely possible! Tris is my biggest thought for filling that last spot and if not Teach then Xtoxm seems likely just via lack of evidence against it. .

But then, as RC begins to express “scumpinging [saudade]” 4072, Ari suddenly loses that scumread and in fact pushes against it, defending the slot and pushing counterwagons.

Spoiler: ari defending scum

I think we should leave Saudade around for the interim.

I think you are a possible townslot for a few reasons now, yes.

VOTE: Math

Iunno what happened in that last one lmao

Ari, vote Shos.

Yes Sir!

VOTE: Shos


Ninja'd

can we just stop getting distracted and wagon shos now plz

Yes Ma'am!

VOTE: SHOS!

Uh, 3 more ninjas. Uggh

VOTE: Shos

(Note that this is infact a double vote of 4448, without a change between, perhaps to add momentum).

I hard disagree? Like, it shocked me to see saud had 150ish posts but all that's in my head when I think of them is that clown music? Da da dadada da da dada... Like, point me to some actual stances of theirs?

Hmm, I mean I see what you're saying but there's a tone that seems towny from it. I'm pretty sure I recall some content in there tho. I'll have to verify it.

@Bella
Spoiler: A Compendium of Saudade Townposts --

nested spoiler removed

I suppose it would have to be skitter and uh....Iunno on a third. Teacher comes to mind for some reason but it could easily just be a lurker at that point.

Without RC and assuming claims are legit, it has to be within {shos, Xtoxm, Bella, Flopz}
and I think Bella is most likely town there.

I have working townreads on almost every other player not within that pool

Note that, now that saudade slot has become a focus, that is the ONE and only slot to have moved out of his scum/null pools from 2509

He does this until its clear the momentum is coming around onto Saudade, and he needs to be in a position to bus again, when he shows openness to the lynch while still trying to push others.

Spoiler: shift to bus

[snip first part of wall]

dude the posts you gave saudade a townread for are trivial to fake for even like mediocre scum. skitter gave him a townread for the dumbest shit. wtf?

I think they were townposts, especially when coupled with the average Saudade post. But good point I guess.
Bella asked for what I thought were his townposts, that was the entirety of the list. Like, it was exhaustive. It does not mean he couldn't be scum still lol

VOTE: Shos

Ico, Ari, let's get this game figured out.

/in =D

How can I help

I think we should leave Saudade around for the interim. Shos is a decent place to start though!

You've been saying this from here as well. Just... why?

At this point in the game ai thought I had found a mason partner crumb and didn't want to bring attention to the fact I believed his first post claim to be real. I've since dropped that belief.

Saudade that is a very scummy post from you and I feel like you're shading the wagon.
What is wrong, in your eyes, with voting someone you think is scum while others you think are scum are on the wagon, Saudade?

This entire interaction being forgotten as well

Scummy post doesn't mean scum any more than a towny post means town lol
He is, at least, very upfront about the shade he is placing on the wagon and it gives equity to the Tris/Plum possibility.

RC I towncased him but that doesn't mean he's town. Hes still among the lowest tier of my townpile. But I think there are better lynch options to pursue first/slots that simply need more content so we can read and interact with them!

But I'd love to talk this out at some point

Honestly at this point it doesnt even matter if rc is scum or town the only way for us to move this game forward is to hang him

This is bad and you should feel bad.

I disregard the shos wagon completely and so should you because the guy havent posted anything besides an attempt to catch up

Well its impossible to catch up in shitfest, and theres only one player causing this shitfest.
I can only imagine what you did to my poor duck yesterday you filthy dress in black kill for money cow

Shos is within a very small PoE pool for many players. Their catchup from their scum pt was meh and they'd need to return and blow me away for this read to change.

The active players have proven tmenselves towny for the most part.

Were not in this situation because "lol Lynch the Lurkers zomg!" Were in this situation because town players have remained active and engaged while scum players have not. Did you not consider this?[/quote]Shade while pushing shos.

Xtoxm, Flopz, Shos.

We need posts by these players before we progress.

I don't need catchups necessarily, even just engaging with a player, an Iso, or like the past 15 pages would be awesome.

Please you three, I know your V/LAs are all ending soon! I know this thread is daunting! But we can't do anything properly until you get in here!

Stall/redirect as saudade gains momentum.

In all, the sequence ends with this:

VOTE: Saudade

Yeeting this vote out there

Giving Ari on-wagon cred while reason to get off if something else gains traction.

[teacher]

what were scum doing here-ish if it's ari/tris/plum?

I hadnt forgotten about this. I went back and read the context. Its already the RC and TW show. I dont think scum needed to do anything.

[Xtoxm]

i think thats really solid, teach
i'll explain my viewpoint in a bit

[shos]

That's a very good association hunt there
not that I needed it to townread you, but if I hadn't, I now would.

@Ari: perhpas you can lnk us to the place where you thought there was a mason crumb?