Mini Normal 2121 | Game Over

[Aloratom]

Hi. I'm kinda new myself. Take that for what it's worth.

I don't know anyone but geraintm, and I owe them my first vote.

VOTE: geraintm

[Aloratom]

Post 33, right ger?

[Aloratom]

I shouldn't have posted that. my bad. I am not going to get into the issues I have with you or your playstyle. this isn't the time or place.

/end subject.

If it helps, I think you're entitled to share your opinions

You really did nothing wrong, we're here to chat until we think we find scum

Meh theres clearly an underlying issue between Jake and FL and I dont really want to sit through 10 pages of an argument if we can avoid it

We could dunk them like witches and the one that survives gets lynched.

[Aloratom]

That's one interpretation.

[Aloratom]

Maybe geraintm could confirm that for us.

[Aloratom]

Maybe geraintm could confirm that for us.

I concur. Do you concur?

I could see us getting caught in an infinite loop if this continues.

[Aloratom]

Maybe geraintm could confirm that for us.

Why geraintm?

He shown some proficiency in solving equations. He could be cheating though, I guess.

[Aloratom]

Find some town

Found one. Mavsfan.

You?

[Aloratom]

Find some town

Found one. Mavsfan.

You?

why do you think mavsfan is town?

168 felt townie for an early read. Do you disagree?

[Aloratom]

Shade noted.

Ummmmm... No shade there either.
It was me realizing there was actually a wagon on them already when I thought I was going to start a new one.

But the VC was right ahead of you by 2 posts.

[Aloratom]

Fl.

Germain is close to lynch already and I am fine with that, but a flash on FL would be cool.

Isn't that kind of reckless? I guess I'd prefer a more methodical approach than a everyone jump on the lurker one.

[Aloratom]

I'm sort of in the same boat, I don't really think that self-voting in RVS is a tell.
If we're willing to entertain doing it outside of RVS tho... really all it does is make you easier to lynch.

I won't deny that Espresso is being quite trolly, but I'm not really seeing any malicious intent in it? Honestly he kinda reminds me of Rooroo from that Alt9p game I played.

Outside of RVS self-voting draws attention to yourself, if that's what you're talking about. I've seen it as a gambit by scum. A whole lot of WIFOM tbh. Everyone's thinking "would scum really do this" and you get into the whole too wolfy to be a wolf thing. I would agree that it's probably not in the best interests of town to ever do it.

[Aloratom]

feels like a ploy...

Huh? By ger?

[Aloratom]

VOTE: Aloratom

I see your still voting geraintm with your rvs vote. You have ben posting all the while its steadily reached l-1.

yet no real attempt to sort him or move the lynch off else where.

Only post whre you talk about an alignment is when you say that one of mav posts look towny. At no point who you think might be scum.

Why you think geraintn is scum

Actually, I'm going to take a look at espressojet. He's had that vote on himself for a long time now, and it's weird.

VOTE: espressojet

[Aloratom]

one of the lurkers?

You want to lynch yourself?

If I recall correctly, that's against your win condition, right? You said earlier that you weren't going to push FL, but you just want him out of the game, right? If you think he's scummy and don't engage, how do you get him out of the game?

[Aloratom]

That was a rhetorical question pointing out he’s guilty of the people he wants to pressure.

Like he's a bully?

[Aloratom]

Ahh. Gotcha.

[Aloratom]

VOTE: Aloratom

I see your still voting geraintm with your rvs vote. You have ben posting all the while its steadily reached l-1.

yet no real attempt to sort him or move the lynch off else where.

Only post whre you talk about an alignment is when you say that one of mav posts look towny. At no point who you think might be scum.

Why you think geraintn is scum

he was in the last game i played, i was scum and won against him. i had no problem with him starting off voting for me. Aloratom, am i behaving any differently this game to that one though?

You were just as confusing in that game as you are here, although come to find out in that game it was by design I think.

[Aloratom]

VOTE: Aloratom

I see your still voting geraintm with your rvs vote. You have ben posting all the while its steadily reached l-1.

yet no real attempt to sort him or move the lynch off else where.

Only post whre you talk about an alignment is when you say that one of mav posts look towny. At no point who you think might be scum.

Why you think geraintn is scum

Actually, I'm going to take a look at espressojet. He's had that vote on himself for a long time now, and it's weird.

VOTE: espressojet

This looks really dodgy actually
Do you actually have any thoughts on Geraint?

It seems like you'd know how many votes were on you with the fake hammer. It also seems like he would be spending more of his posts probing for information and less defending himself. Just scatter-brained defensive, really. I voted him purely RVS, but I'll probably revisit that if he keeps this up. I'd really like to see espressojet come play though. And while we're talking, do you have any reads you want to share?

[Aloratom]

@geraintm
Your actions at L-1 are not judged in a vacuum. They are part of the bigger “defeatist” narrative you’ve seemed to establish. Jake from State Farm is right and by choosing not to participate in a scum hunt is weird. It’s not that you haven’t found anyone yet, it’s more that you seem to have not tried. Or at least haven’t until the L-1 was removed. Personally I don’t have a scum read on you, but all I was trying to say about you at L-1 is that if someone really wanted to hammer you but was like “let’s give him a chance to at least respond and defend himself before the hammer” that was a fool’s errand.

@All: BEF has shared his opinion on Bob3141 but what say you? I’m starting now to lean town-ish or at least more town-ish since I’ve posted about him now that I’ve gotten better content out of him. But starting a drinking game every time he posts prior page 15 of “what do you think about this” messed up my liver. I honestly don’t know how to interpret him. He seems now to have his own opinions and I think they’re fair and honest. Shall we start a new wagon? This is like the testing the blood scene in The Thing. Shall we test someone else? I’m all down for a Flavor Leaf one. But as I won’t have access to do proper research till later tonight, using my mobile device to read and post rn is annoying. So I’ll get back to y’all about a potential Flavor Leaf wagon later.

Bob's been vocal. He and geraintm are both hard to interpret it seems to me.

[Aloratom]

@mavsfan

what should i do to defend myself. i cant sit there and go "I'm town" - but that wouldn't work.
I could sit there and try and generate a new wagon, but at the time i didn't have anyone i really wanted to lynch and i wasn't going to fake anything.
I've since called out people with crappy reasons for voting me, to me that is a defence - pointing out that the wagon was just dumb (jake claims that they got scum vibes from my random vote for exmaple).

I didn't think i was going to get lynched (i didn't think there was anymore townies who could convince themselves to vote for me, and no scum would hammer when i would turn up innocent), which was why i was shocked when i got hammered.

What would you have done different to me? You'd have gone out and found scum and presented their body all hogged up for the rest of us to lynch? or something else?

This is a silly post. Of course no one is expecting you to bag 'em scum Day 1. You're pinging hard here.

VOTE: geraintm

[Aloratom]

I know I'm not the first to point it out, Bob, but what is it with you defending geraintm? Are the two of you tied at the hip? You're really not making sense. No one comes in with the expectation that they're going to nail scum in the middle of Day 1. It just doesn't happen that way. Why even put that in there/make a point of it? You can get lucky, sure, but really you're just building a dossier for later in the game. Geraintm's not making a file, and he's spending most of his time telling everyone why he's not. And you're spending a bunch of time telling everyone why Geraintm's not building a file. Why is that? Mavsfan suggested a wagon on you. I had a whole thing on why I didn't necessarily think it was a good idea at this point, but when I read it it didn't come out the way I wanted it to, ie. sounded stupid, so I deleted almost all of it and ended up with the one sentence. It happens. Bascally it came down to me thinking it's too easy for scum to slide in without being noticed. It just seemed like a self-evident statement not worth taking the time to put down. I'll ask a related question though. Your wagon built up fairly quickly. Do you have reads on anyone voting you right now?

[Aloratom]

That’s probably my first real scum-read...
The post feels like the very definition of scum trying to fly under the radar. If the scum-read on espresso was genuine, I find it kinda weird that he’d only remember it now, while quoting bob’s post. It looks like he just realized that he was scum-read, posted some random stuff without thinking, just to not get lynched immediately, and started lurking again.

That should probably correct regardless of his alignment...

Can someone talk to me about how he plays as town?

Well, you might want to check that. There wasn't a scum read on espressojet. It was a vote on someone who hadn't had much content. I'd be surprised if anyone had anything but a null read on espresso right now tbh.

[Aloratom]

Can you answer the question alortom. When germ wagon was building up did you scum read him. As you didnt realy do much either way. Neither reaffirming your scum read or pishing else were.

When did you rvs vote become a real vote. Or has it always been a rvs until you revoted

It wasn't my intention to let the RVS vote linger -- I don't usually do that -- but the wagon kept building, which I wasn't expecting, and I thought it was a good opportunity to see geraintm's reaction, as well as see who joined up and why. That provides good info to add to the file. I've only seen a lolhammer in the wild once, and that was on me lol, so I wasn't overly concerned about that happening.

[Aloratom]

This is a silly post. Of course no one is expecting you to bag 'em scum Day 1. You're pinging hard here.

VOTE: geraintm

why was it silly? it was me explaining my thoughts at the time and genuinely wondering what else i could be doing. What about it made you think scum?

trying to remember how you played in the last game we were both in. you seem a little more under the radar here, and happier to spray your votes around. you agree with that?

The whole "I can't bring you scum gift wrapped with a bow on top on Day 1" so I'm not going to effort it attitude. And no, you're really wrong about the vote thing lol. You seem to be playing the same character in this game as you were in our previous one.

[Aloratom]

I don't understand lynching a wagon just because it reaches a certain size. That seems wolfy as hell tbh.

[Aloratom]

BEF is town. If I ever change my mind or start hesitating, honestly fuck me. Him entertaining the idea of Flavor&Jake being a team and joking about it so much is just weird at this point.
He most likely joked about it precisely because he was aware that the idea is unlikely to be true.

I honesty am worried it could be so.

Flavor and Jake doesn't make sense. Jake seems genuinely worried there. I don't think he's faking.

[Aloratom]

I don't understand lynching a wagon just because it reaches a certain size. That seems wolfy as hell tbh.

the thing I have been told time and time again is that this is a team game. have to work together. My top scum read wagon fell apart. Flavor or mavs don't look like there is any interest in lynching them. I also said I would lynch anyone day 1 and day 1 is coming closer and closer to deadline (2 1/2 days left)

at some point people have to compromise to make a lynch happen.

if people want to go back to germainums awesome. if people want to go to flavor or mavs, i'm cool with that also, but if not then bob is just a good a lynch as anyone because it doesn't matter who get's lynched, as long as one happens and we can learn from it.

I think there's possibly scum in Bob, but it's a weak read right now, pretty much based on his defense of geraintm. I'm not wholly sure what others not on his wagon think of him. That being said, how many mislynches do you think we have in this game?

[Aloratom]

..sigh.. @Bob: I think you're trying to bait me into voting you so you can say I WAS RIGHT LOOK LOOK LOOK!!! I have a weak read on you, and yes, I did give a reason. wrt geraintm wagon everyone gave their reasons for joining it and had interactions with him. Really nothing I wanted to add at the time. I'm not voting you right now because I don't think more from you is necessary atm.

[Aloratom]

My scum read on him developed when he said he wanted to go after lurkers when he was a lurker himself. It solidified even more when he claimed I wasn’t scum hunting when there is evidence of me scum hunting him (calling out his hypocrisy and geraniums) then he tries to use the fact I joined your wagon against me when everyone should know based on my earlier posts I’d join any wagon. You can’t be ok with my statement early game and then when I continue doing what i said I would do, scum read me for it. The fact he didn’t even try to see if a wagon would form shows he realized he made a mistake (or maybe one of his partners warned him in mafia chat) and he backed off.

He’s scum at best. Seriously antitown at worst.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but do you mean scum at worst, antitown at best?

[Aloratom]

I would

I actually thought mavsfan was one of the more townier players. Do you think he's scummy or is there some other reason?

[Aloratom]

The fact you didn’t scum read me some definitely reassured me that you could be scum.

Do you have more scum reads than town reads right now?

[Aloratom]

This has the feel of a 9-player game.

[Aloratom]

Perhaps its the abundance of over-explaining

Or perhaps he's just thinking out loud too much

What do you think of the wagon bait & switch?

[Aloratom]

Perhaps its the abundance of over-explaining

Or perhaps he's just thinking out loud too much

What do you think of the wagon bait & switch?

Could read that any way really

Trying to find scum & fishing for reactions

Or

Trying to look like active scumhunting & fishing for townreads

How do you feel about it?

I think it might be backpedaling due to a failed rally. But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[Aloratom]

Eh, I hammer like that all the time, regardless of alignment. Y’all had a boring Day 1, so I did my catchphrase when I could

Who were you talking about ejji trying to pocket here?

Ejin

Stop pocket.

[Aloratom]

VOTE: geranium

Still think this flips scum.

There's got to be more to it than that.

[Aloratom]

They were saying sweet nothings into my ear

Took a little connecting the dots, but I think I understand.

I get that the Day 1 quickhammer is your schtick, at least that's what you seem to indicate. Is that for particular games where you don't find Day 1 useful? If he had been higher in your list on 568 would you have held off?

[Aloratom]

No there doesn’t

Even with Bob flipping green?

[Aloratom]

With Bob's flip, Geraintm doesn't make as much sense to me today as he did yesterday.

[Aloratom]

With Bob's flip, Geraintm doesn't make as much sense to me today as he did yesterday.

Explain you’re thinking when most people think the exact opposite as you.

With the way Bob was defending geraintm, I thought there may have been a connection.

[Aloratom]

VOTE: geraintm

You've got a point.

[Aloratom]

This is a bit spicy. At the point of this post 'most people' was you and FL.

I’m talking about in general. In mafia most players understand and believe in the concept of counter wagons.

You open the door to your counter wagon and I walk in to the Hotel California.

[Aloratom]

We already have a turbowagon on the rise, eh?
I'll read sometime today what has been happening so far.

I think the bob-wagon wasn't as informative as it could've been, and I still think gera might not have been a bad choice per se, but at the very start of day 2 we are rushing to that lynch?
Eh?

Maybe some discussion first?

If germ was town, odds are a new wagon wouldn’t have formed on somebody else.

Odds are that it depends solely on the people starting the pushes.
Now assume germ is town - you could argue that 0-1 scum were ever in the bob lynch. (obv. could be any other number too, but for the sake of your argument about odds)
These scum would now want gera lynched, because they'd have the angle of "I wanted gera yesterday, but then you guys formed a counterwagon on a townie".
So lynching gera today becomes almost like a freebie..

^^^ like this post. Both wagons yesterday were terrible, filled with awful logic and ended too quickly (you don't let a day end when there are so many lukers, its just unhelpful for town, always)

I don't understand. If your wagon was illogical, why was it bad that it dissolved quickly?

[Aloratom]

VOTE: aloratom

I nearly voted Espresso, but I think his L-2 vote, knowing FL would L-1 (which is NAI from FL) was kinda too scummy to be scum... My expectation of Day 1 was that the wagon on bob was going to actually die out and we would move on to another wagon, I'm not sure why it just felt like momentum had passed... so the rapid 2 votes with no claim etc was a bit of a surprise.

Anyway, I think Alo has been a bit all over the place and is kinda almost letting people tell him who to vote and it comes over like 'oh if i do this vote, people will like me/think im town' - I nearly voted for espresso, but I think that vote was too risky perhaps... Unless the scum team is Espresso and Ger and the fear was the wagon would revert to Ger after it failed on Bob.

But anyway, I'll read the thread more later and look at what I can find, this is my gut feeling for now.

Actually, I had three votes yesterday, geraintm, espresso, and geraintm. But that's alright.

You see something between espresso and geraintm?

[Aloratom]

If you two are just trolling my Jake&FL scum team theory, please stop. This isn't helping.

I’m not doing anything of the sort. He could be scum. I’m still down for a flavor flash

Does your Day 1 wagon theory hold for Day 2?

[Aloratom]

@aloratom: to end day 1, two confirmed townies had voted you in bob3141 and ejjinami. Have any feelings on egix96 who is the sole survivor from the day 1 vote count?

I don't know if two of the three votes on me being confirmed Town is indicative of anything or not yet. I'm kind of null on egix, but Flavor and geraintm seem to think he has scum equity. That holds if scum were not on the Bob wagon, but that also implicates me. And you and geraintm btw. According to that analysis, my vote should stay where it is. With regard to your question on ejji, I was looking at that last night and couldn't come up with anything. Him being the Night Kill makes about as much sense as anyone really except for a lurker perhaps. His last post indicated that he had pings from about everyone.

[Aloratom]

@profii: you’re not wrong. Just want to make sure I’m doing my due diligence on NKs

@emperor: none whatsoever. I just read him that way. He’s seems too sincere to be scum (at least for now).

@aloratom: my snapshot was the final vote count when bob3141 was lynched and how day 1 voting ended.

With regard to me is this à propos to 714?

[Aloratom]

If so, then we're square.

[Aloratom]

I'm glad we finally have a wagon to start picking apart:

Vote count 1.FINAL

bob3141 (7) ~

unabombah, profii, brighteyedfish, emperor flippynips, jake from state farm, espressojet, flavor leaf

aloratom (3) ~

egix96,

ejjinami, bob3141

geraintm (1) ~

aloratom

flavor leaf (1) ~

geraintm

brighteyedfish (1) ~

mavsfan41

with 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch

deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-01 10:31:46)

mod notes:

-

It hard for me to imagine that there is not at least 1 scum on that Bob wagon.

That leaves:
unabombah, profii, brighteyedfish, emperor flippynips, jake from state farm, espressojet, flavor leaf

FL hammer is a FL hammer. I wish this was AI but FL could still go other way. This is where his meta helps him as both alignments. So I will remove him (and myself) for my current PoE

profii, jake from state farm, espressojet

Una and (lurky) Nippy are still null for me right now:

profii, jake from state farm, espressojet

Jake could still be SvS with FL, I don't want to let this go entirely just yet.

iirc profii was SR by Ejji and I have experience with scum!profii but I'm not for sure if profii is a scum who kills people who SRs him.

Also, that L-1 from EJ was the worst vote out of the entire wagon.

As much as I hate to say it;

We learn nothing from lynching a lurker today unless they flip scum

Which is statistically unlikely

Your assessment on Bob being active and posting is actually a valid reason to make this our day 1 lynch

Whatever the flip, we learn in retrospect

VOTE: Bob

May his sacrifice not be in vain

The last line is a scum slip imo. He knew bob was a "sacrifice" but forgot to check his tone. I'm starting here D2 but I feel very confident that this is the best lynch if we want to focus on bob's wagon.

This post doesn't really say a whole lot, but it has a lot of words. The scum slip argument may have some merit though.

[Aloratom]

On re-read, it's more informative than I thought. It's just the repeated line that threw me off. The meta stuff is helpful I think.

[Aloratom]

@espresso -- Aloe vera is healing.

I think when I voted you, you had had that vote on yourself for a long while, way past what seemed like a reasonable time for a joke vote, and I wanted to find out what was going on. But then geraintm tweaked me, and you weren't around anyway so I moved back to him.

Did you see any scum in Bob or was that for information purposes?

[Aloratom]

Did you see any scum in Bob or was that for information purposes?

I saw no more scum than in other people, but I didn't believe we were going to find anything better before bedtime

That's just a weird answer. We had a lot of time left.

[Aloratom]

Did you see any scum in Bob or was that for information purposes?

I saw no more scum than in other people, but I didn't believe we were going to find anything better before bedtime

That's just a weird answer. We had a lot of time left.

At least Flavor Leaf gave an answer.

[Aloratom]

If you look at who wasn't on the Bob wagon, you've got egix, geraintm, you and me. I'm not convinced that all the scum were on the Bob wagon. So if I'm weighing between geraintm and espresso, and I already have a read on geraintm, I stick with geraintm. If espresso starts pinging harder, I'll take another look, but I see no reason to switch just because I think he gave a scummy answer. I've been trying to find balance between playing too slowly and too aggressively. I've been accused as a deadbeat by doing the former and burnt by bad reads by doing the latter. I'm looking for middle ground. We're early in Day 2, and I'm trying to play at a measured pace. Thus, I'm holding ground for a minute.

[Aloratom]

Don’t get me wrong. There is stuff about your d1 play that’s questionable but I’m 95% sure germ is scum and I’m basing my other reads off that.

That seems too confident. Dangerously confident to be the game's lynchpin early on Day 2. I'm going to have to reread some things again.

[Aloratom]

Uhhhhhhh, my new banner, I’m in lovvvvveeeeee

Well, someone's going to sleep with the fishes.

[Aloratom]

Don’t get me wrong. There is stuff about your d1 play that’s questionable but I’m 95% sure germ is scum and I’m basing my other reads off that.

That seems too confident. Dangerously confident to be the game's lynchpin early on Day 2. I'm going to have to reread some things again.

what do you make of this wagon on you?

It's misguided.

[Aloratom]

That you and FL are scumbuddies.

That’s not my theory. I know that’s not true. I was asked about my theory and I don’t know what he was talking about.

I was talking about when a wagon hits N number of people, you jump on. Not a theory, but more like a policy I guess.

[Aloratom]

Don’t get me wrong. There is stuff about your d1 play that’s questionable but I’m 95% sure germ is scum and I’m basing my other reads off that.

That seems too confident. Dangerously confident to be the game's lynchpin early on Day 2. I'm going to have to reread some things again.

what do you make of this wagon on you?

I think those of us off of Bob's wagon make good candidates. And among that group, there are better. At least one anyway.

[Aloratom]

Quick post before bed. I pretty much asked aloratom to claim earlier. I got zero response from him.

Remember this post ger?

"aloratom made a post whilst at L-1 with no mention of their status though....either that is coolness under pressure or i don't know what."

[Aloratom]

So don’t insult my intelligence please

he's rather touchy over that so I would recommend not doing it.

other things are fair game. Dress sense, hair cut, having to have a mug with his own name on it so he doesn't forget, they are ok...

That mug line almost makes me want to unvote you.

[Aloratom]

I’m already on the wagon. It feels like a mislynch.

Let’s go here.

VOTE: Egix

UnaBombah is probably scum for that Gera timing of a vote, which makes Gera likely town.

That’s not something I’m actually scum reading him for currently, but I want that in my ISO to quote later in the game to see if it makes sense after some flips.

Because there was no momentum on geraintm at the time and it made more sense to hammer me?

[Aloratom]

So don’t insult my intelligence please

he's rather touchy over that so I would recommend not doing it.

other things are fair game. Dress sense, hair cut, having to have a mug with his own name on it so he doesn't forget, they are ok...

That mug line almost makes me want to unvote you.

What is a mug line and what do you think about being at L-1? Do you think you should claim?

Look at Jake's avatar.

L-2 I think. There's a lot of time in the day left. I could claim, but I don't think I should. I don't think it helps root anyone out.

[Aloratom]

Una whats your reason for voting germin

Check again hombre.
I had my vote already on them, and I made an argument when placing it back then. (if I hadn't, I guess mine would've actually been the hammer )
I also firmly believe that it's better for town if we get 1-2 good wagons rolling, and teetering on L-1, before we settle on what to do.
Sometimes the first wagon that gets run up is also the one that gets pushed all the way through, but even then we often get to see something come out of it D2.

Also now I have a feeling.
VOTE: bob3141

Una, when you said we often see something come out of the first Day 1 wagon on Day 2, what did you mean?

[Aloratom]

I feel like I'm on one of those spinny rides at the fair.

[Aloratom]

Espresso -- your vote on Flippy was OMGUS, but he unvoted. Is it still OMGUS?

[Aloratom]

Does anyone aside from FlavorLeaf have a scumread on Mavsfan?

Feels Town. The only thing is that he was one of those off the Bob wagon, and I still think that counts for something. I've been slammed at work the last few days and just haven't had a chance to catch up much, but I need to ISO him and a few others. It doesn't seem we're making any progress today at all.

[Aloratom]

May his sacrifice not be in vain

And yet it has been in vain

No it hasn't.

[Aloratom]

Does anyone aside from FlavorLeaf have a scumread on Mavsfan?

Feels Town. The only thing is that he was one of those off the Bob wagon, and I still think that counts for something. I've been slammed at work the last few days and just haven't had a chance to catch up much, but I need to ISO him and a few others. It doesn't seem we're making any progress today at all.

I have no idea what Flavor sees there. Same as I don't know why Flippy voted you or why Una voted Flavor.

[Aloratom]

Una, when you said we often see something come out of the first Day 1 wagon on Day 2, what did you mean?

I'm not sure if bolding my text here helps at all, but the emphasis wasn't supposed to be on the word "often" per se..

Sometimes

the first wagon that gets run up is also the one that gets pushed all the way through,

but even then

we often get to see

something

come out of it D2.

"Even then" meaning that we almost always get "something" out of any wagon.
Implying that in my opinion, running down the very first wagon we set up is likely sub-optimal.
I prefer seeing multiple L-2s and L-1s, but it seems nowadays I'm in the minority there.
But more often than not, I see these games solved D3 onwards, and the first successful lynch often follows someone doing some simple VCA.
And that is why it helps if we have people moving from wagon to wagon, so that we can start to see the inconsistencies.

I know many people might disagree with me, but if we ever lynch the very first wagon we start, many of the voters would likely get behind the easyness/lazyness of it all.
And we could run a gauntlet and lynch everyone on the wagon, and even then we might still get only one scum..

That makes sense I think. So you, Jake and profii were the only ones on both wagons yesterday. Should we be looking in that direction right now for the next wagon?

[Aloratom]

BEF - have them as bored townie. they could well be scum (post 672, where they don't get why the wagon on aloratom implicates egix is something to keep in mind later in the game if certain people flip scum), reluctance to join the alor wagon and the ease they moved to me, but they look more like a townie who doesn't have any clear convictions.
I have them somewhere in the middle. not scum, not a lurker, just...BEF

UNVOTE:
This post doesn't feel like scum. Does that make Jake conftown as well due to there "issues"?

I don't think "bored" is the best word to describe my play here, more like unsure. True, I don't have

clear

convictions but I still think EJ needs to be pushed more.

I think I do my best when I get direct questions, right now I feel as if I am interjecting my posts and no one seems to be interested.

There are too many distractions.

[Aloratom]

May his sacrifice not be in vain

And yet it has been in vain

No it hasn't.

Have you see today? We aren’t any closer to lynching scum than we were yesterday so so far it’s been in vain.

I honestly think if we don’t lynch scum today town will lose

I get it. But I suggest that you take a break for the night. Relax, watch some TV or something. Get some sleep. Come back tomorrow with a fresh look.

[Aloratom]

@mod I am vla until sometime Monday

[Aloratom]

May his sacrifice not be in vain

And yet it has been in vain

No it hasn't.

Could you elaborate? Because I don't feel that way.

Just because we had two confirmed Townies off the wagon, leaving four currently alive people off of it, and I don't think all the scum were on the wagon.

[Aloratom]

leaving four currently alive people off of it, and I don't think all the scum were on the wagon.

That would be Egix, Mavsfan, Geraintm, and you

Correct.

[Aloratom]

Just because we had two confirmed Townies off the wagon, leaving four currently alive people off of it, and I don't think all the scum were on the wagon.

two?

Bob and ejji.

[Aloratom]

In order, geraintm, egix, mavsfan. But I haven't been real engaged the last couple of days, so I haven't been able to go through things as much as I want, so that's not necessarily an updated take. More like a Wednesday read.

[Aloratom]

Egix maybe, but I just haven't seen much from him. This last post from him needs a couple read throughs I think, as well as an ISO. Mavsfan seems fairly Townie in tone and in substance. I feel slightly better about Geraintm today, but I need to catch up with him too.

[Aloratom]

These last few days have, for me, pinged Geraintm and Mavsfan as town and Egix as scum

What pings you about Egix?

[Aloratom]

Egix maybe, but I just haven't seen much from him. This last post from him needs a couple read throughs I think, as well as an ISO. Mavsfan seems fairly Townie in tone and in substance. I feel slightly better about Geraintm today, but I need to catch up with him too.

This was in response to 1238 by EJ.

[Aloratom]

I won't press you for names. I don't feel like it right now anyway. This game is sucking all my energy it seems.

[Aloratom]

UNVOTE: All
Not while vla.

[Aloratom]

In order, geraintm, egix, mavsfan. But I haven't been real engaged the last couple of days, so I haven't been able to go through things as much as I want, so that's not necessarily an updated take. More like a Wednesday read.

Just to get this straight, you have me as your top scum in the game? The person who believes you to be scum

Then Egix, the person who I think is your partner and has been trying to appear like they think are are scum but then walks away as you got close to a lynch

and then Mavs, who I have no huge strong read on.

I think you are the type of player who really likes there only ever being 1 scum on a wagon or a list, just to through the rest of us off. so I am noting this list of yours for later

Please don't twist my words. I can't walk you through it right now, but please read post 1133. EJ was asking about only those of us who were off the Bob wagon, and that set is what I was ranking.

[Aloratom]

In order, geraintm, egix, mavsfan. But I haven't been real engaged the last couple of days, so I haven't been able to go through things as much as I want, so that's not necessarily an updated take. More like a Wednesday read.

Just to get this straight, you have me as your top scum in the game? The person who believes you to be scum

Then Egix, the person who I think is your partner and has been trying to appear like they think are are scum but then walks away as you got close to a lynch

and then Mavs, who I have no huge strong read on.

I think you are the type of player who really likes there only ever being 1 scum on a wagon or a list, just to through the rest of us off. so I am noting this list of yours for later

Please don't twist my words. I can't walk you through it right now, but please read post 1133. EJ was asking about only those of us who were off the Bob wagon, and that set is what I was ranking.

Make that post 1233.

[Aloratom]

In order, geraintm, egix, mavsfan. But I haven't been real engaged the last couple of days, so I haven't been able to go through things as much as I want, so that's not necessarily an updated take. More like a Wednesday read.

Just to get this straight, you have me as your top scum in the game? The person who believes you to be scum

Then Egix, the person who I think is your partner and has been trying to appear like they think are are scum but then walks away as you got close to a lynch

and then Mavs, who I have no huge strong read on.

I think you are the type of player who really likes there only ever being 1 scum on a wagon or a list, just to through the rest of us off. so I am noting this list of yours for later

Please don't twist my words. I can't walk you through it right now, but please read post 1133. EJ was asking about only those of us who were off the Bob wagon, and that set is what I was ranking.

I wasn't trying to twist your words, honest.
I read 1233 where you were asked who you thought were scum, and you replied 2 posts later with your scum read?

I didn't realise you were only commenting at the subset of people who were on the wagon (and that was all you had been asked to look at), rather than everyone in the game.

Fair enough. As long as we're on the same page.

[Aloratom]

Anything new to add Jake?

[Aloratom]

ok, rest of town, I don't know what to do. this game is horrible learning experience for me, I've never played with a player over the course of a month has been so difficult to interact with.
This game is already probably lost because of it, but the rest of town need to work out a way for it not to.

9 players left in game.
I am making the assumption there are 6 townies and 3 scum, so to get a lynch with no scum involvement needs 5 of the 6 townies to vote the same way. if one townie (and I really think Rob is town) refuses to vote for a mafia member, then every other town player needs to vote the same way. that is the situation we are in

Yes, those are the numbers. See post 2. We started 10 vs. 3. If you don't think scum would bus here, you've got to be nutty.

[Aloratom]

Vote where?

He's talking about Espresso I believe.

[Aloratom]

BEF/una/Ejet are in my 2 of 4 place, so I agree there's scum on that wagon

I don't understand this post. Which wagon?

[Aloratom]

Forgot this bit

VOTE: aloratom

Is this for the same reason Flavor's reading me?

[Aloratom]

BEF/una/Ejet are in my 2 of 4 place, so I agree there's scum on that wagon

I don't understand this post. Which wagon?

Nevermind. I think I got it. I was making it too hard.

[Aloratom]

Vote count 1.FINAL

bob3141 (7) ~

unabombah, profii, brighteyedfish, emperor flippynips, jake from state farm, espressojet, flavor leaf

aloratom (3) ~

egix96, ejjinami, bob3141

geraintm (1) ~

aloratom

flavor leaf (1) ~

geraintm

brighteyedfish (1) ~

mavsfan41

with 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch

deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-01 10:31:46)

mod notes:

-

bob3141 has been lynched! he was a

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

deadline for night actions:

(expired on 2020-03-01 17:22:47)

please submit night actions to me by pm or pt, if you have one

Vote count 2.FINAL

Egix (6) ~

flavor leaf, espressojet, unabombah, brighteyedfish, geraintm, robbnva

aloratom(1) ~

profii

espressojet (1) ~

egix96

not voting (3) ~

mavsfan41, emperor flippynips, aloratom

with 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch

deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-11 17:59:51)

mod notes:

- mod is sick
- thanks rc for helping out with the vcs! joint mod iso
- aloratom is v/la until 3/9

egix has been lynched! he was a

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

it is now night 2. night actions should be submitted by pm or pt
deadline for night actions:

(expired on 2020-03-11 18:37:34)

Una, Flavor, BEF, espresso and Jake/Robb were all on both lynching wagons. I'm looking at 2 of those 4 plus geraintm, flippy or profii each of whom were off of one of the wagons.

[Aloratom]

Alright, I'll claim. Loyal Doc. I was on Mavs Night 1 and Flavor Night 2.

[Aloratom]

I'm headed to the office. If there are any questions I'll answer when I get settled.

[Aloratom]

why those two?

Mavs was my strongest Town read Day 1, and the way Day 2 ended I figured if Egix flipped red, Flavor was likely onto something and would be a target.

I can't hunt it down right now, but I crumbed. Espresso Day 1 I think said something about Aloe Vera (me). I quoted and said something about Aloe Vera being healing.

Now I really have to go to the office.

[Aloratom]

why those two?

Mavs was my strongest Town read Day 1, and the way Day 2 ended I figured if Egix flipped red, Flavor was likely onto something and would be a target.

I can't hunt it down right now, but I crumbed. Espresso Day 1 I think said something about Aloe Vera (me). I quoted and said something about Aloe Vera being healing.

Now I really have to go to the office.

Following up on this, these posts are why I was on FL:

Gera, Jake, Espressojet, EFN, Alora are all town on the scum flip.

Profii was trying to get both Alo and Gera before claiming intent here for Egix, probably allowing him to claim to get out of a lynch.

Alo and Gera were the other suspects who could have possibly been wagon’d.

And this is Aloe Vera thing:

@espresso -- Aloe vera is healing.

I think when I voted you, you had had that vote on yourself for a long while, way past what seemed like a reasonable time for a joke vote, and I wanted to find out what was going on. But then geraintm tweaked me, and you weren't around anyway so I moved back to him.

Did you see any scum in Bob or was that for information purposes?

[Aloratom]

Alo was on that wagon
Alo was really hard to lynch yesterday
Alo gave a claim we cant refute other than a 'real doctor'coming out and saying 'no you're not'- which is obviously what scum want when you're l-1

Damn it I dont care anymore

VOTE: alo

Let's get it all out there. There's been a wagon on me all three days. All I'm saying is there isn't room for anymore screw ups. If scum aren't lynched today, we're in a bad way come tomorrow. I hate to echo Robb, but geraintm has been sitting there, and absent my claim, looking at this objectively he and I are nearly interchangeable. So who do you look at?

[Aloratom]

It just makes sense to vote here. If not, Robb's burnt.

VOTE: geraintm

[Aloratom]

I don’t even know what you mean in that last post

Just that you're certified scum if geraintm's Town.

[Aloratom]

I can see a world in which Una's right and we've been reading you Town just because, I guess. But I think there's more to it. It seems kind of a shade for them to bring it up that way at all.

[Aloratom]

I can see a world in which Una's right and we've been reading you Town just because, I guess. But I think there's more to it. It seems kind of a shade for them to bring it up that way at all.

But really, we're down to a 1/3 ratio now and everyone's getting antsy so I'm not blaming anyone for looking at all angles.

[Aloratom]

That Mini Normal 2067 is a bit of a mind bender.

[Aloratom]

I still want to lynch Alora, the Alora Gera vote is scummy, but if Alora is town and Gera is town. Scum probably win this one.

I just read your PT in 2067, and I'm kind of paranoid now.

[Aloratom]

That's the game I vig shot Unabombah clutch.

Right. Gives context to Una's 1397 and 1398.

[Aloratom]

Alo- why did you target flavor & mav?

Night 1 mavsfan I just Town read pretty early on, and I think everyone else did. Not much more to it than that. Night 2 with Flavor Leaf he was talking about how a red Egix flip would clear a few people but may implicate someone. I thought he may be on to a solve. I figured that even if he missed Egix, he could be close -- he was solving all day. So I decided he probably was a good protect.

[Aloratom]

It’s just weird as town, and makes more sense scum making it up to try to get me to ease from voting them, especially because I had invited around the time too

I don't know what you mean by invited, but when you're Doc and the one you think is onto a solve is scum reading you, what do you do?

[Aloratom]

Not blindly.

[Aloratom]

We just can't afford anymore screw ups.

[Aloratom]

VOTE: Aloratom

[Aloratom]

gg all -- well done profii/bef!

go ahead and release the PT

[Aloratom]

Thanks for the game, skitter. Lots of twists and turns.