TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Dr Easy Bake]

Sorry y’all, having a super busy week, will be able to fully catch up when I get home tonight. I gotta see what led to FLs implosion.

[davesaz]

As an aside, gobble wants to know why you're trying so hard in this game but you didn't try in MM2. You called this game a curveball of a logic puzzle, but we think MM2 was more of a traditional logic puzzle than this game.

In MM2 I had a Beloved Princess role. Low key is the mechanical optimum -- stand out too much, get NK'd, town loses a day. By the time enough info was available to be useful, I had been culted. Also it's pretty common knowledge that RL for me is extremely variable, so gobble might be comparing to a heavy RL period.

This game has plenty of logic -- sure, not quite as much but it's adequate. The curveball is how it starts out group oriented and morphs to individual.

I have meetings and debugging today. FB later, I hope.

[kuribo]

Okay, I promised Xtoxm's thoughts, and his case against Flavor Leaf, and here it is:

He said that FL made what looks like a scumslip in the wrong PT. He says this is supporting evidence that the scumsllip is real. The other player implicated in the scumslip, Maria, has flipped scum. This also supports the scumslip being real. Xtoxm says that although he believes that actual scumslips are rare, the fact that FL has done it before shows that history is on the side of it having happened again.

He also said that regarding no deaths last night, that FL has a history of dropping the no-kill gambit. He said that if FL is scum, this strongly points to Gamma being the buddy because FL was trying to use that to clear Gamma. He also questions why the doc hood seems to have never been targeted at night, though he calls that only weak evidence that the doc hood contains scum. He also pointed out that I myself have a well-documented history of allowing scum to buddy me and townreading them as a result. This leads to me spinning my wheels and screaming at people left and right while scum either does nothing or pockets me. He said this is what he feels FL has done here.

Xtoxm's reads are as follows:

{Almost50, EP}
{Davesaz}
{panth, deb}
{FB, Ank}
{FL, Gamma}

Xtoxm moved Ank down from the middle because she's in a hood that has flipped only town so far and is far less townie than A50.

My own reads differ from Xtoxm's slightly in that I'd move DEB down at least one notch, if not two. I read Gamma mostly town by play, but if FL is scum, I'm going to have to re-evaluate this.

[kuribo]

Vote: Flavor Leaf

This is where this goes.

[Ankamius]

How many players are alive currently?

[Gammagooey]

10

[Ankamius]

Okay, neat.

Thank you.

[Ankamius]

I'm will have more later, but I think this game is essentially solved. At least, it's close to solved. I just need one more slot that I'm entirely certain is town and the game is in auto.

I agree that FL is the best lynch this phase, and I think the partners are within DEB and FB. Gamma and davesaz are the PoE if the scum aren't within those 3 players, but I don't think scum can possibly be outside of those five players.

[Ankamius]

Actually, if we ever get access to a vig shot, I think the game IS auto from that point.

FL > DEB > FB > dave > gamma lynch/vig order always wins the game from here, I believe.

[Ankamius]

He also said that regarding no deaths last night, that FL has a history of dropping the no-kill gambit. He said that if FL is scum, this strongly points to Gamma being the buddy because FL was trying to use that to clear Gamma.

I disagree.

EP, his biggest pocket, turned on FL.
His Ank lynch didn't go through and he lost a scumpartner instead.

He needs allies, and what better way than to claim a protection on somebody?

[Ankamius]

FL is feeling the pressure and needs to get creative to get the advantage back. Simply skating by isn't going to cut it anymore.

[davesaz]

Why FB over FL? Did FL say something that made you feel better about him?

I didn't reply to this part. Moving off FL doesn't mean I'm no longer scumreading him.
Need to examine the timing of what (little) FB has done today.

[davesaz]

FL is feeling the pressure

Yeah, that outburst, especially whole pages of one liners, seemed extremely knee-jerky and frankly panic driven to me. I wonder if it's FL overplaying the defense given his high number of scum wins last year, as if to say scum!FL wouldn't be worried...

Going from memory here, I was also struck by the dichotomy of FL being worried about himself being pushed / vigged but not worried about a NK or surprised that both he and EP survived.

[Ankamius]

Do you find it interesting that he was mostly talking TO me instead of about me, and simultaneously constantly repeating that he was only scum if I was scum?

[Ankamius]

I think Firebringer is scum mostly because I think RC tried to specifically get a 1v1 between kuribo and me when he asked me to look at kuribos attack.

That timing was a bit too perfect and fits with the general gamestate progression.

[kuribo]

you know


that actually makes a lot of sense

[Ankamius]

It got buried in the volpe fl shit and I'm ngl, it looks impossible to get anything concrete out of it without seeing the pt directly

am I reading the same game as you all?

I don't see it at all so I'm going to bug my team about it too!

and if there's scum in it, then it's gif*

there you go then!

Admittedly, I'd also be very happy that this was right.

[Ankamius]

Not exactly all the quotes I meant to get, but you know what I mean.

[kuribo]

Real quick before I go back to work, I thought I'd summarize our neighborhood:

Spoiler:

0- Tripod butts
1- Vex says hi
2- Maria says hi
3- Long Vex post that boils down to thinking the neighborhood is either all town or one scum. Feels that mechanically due to our ability and LMS, there can't be two scum. Suggests using the PT as much as possible as basically a masonry.
4- Maria agrees, says she doesn't care about the LMS. Says it's easy in hoods to get pocketed.
5- Maria didn't realize everyone is in a neighborhood and corrects herself. Says that could mess things up but she still feels it's basically a masonry.
6- Maria wants to keep an eye on GiF.
7- Vex assumes there's an SK in the game and that two mafia in any hood is unlikely. Has never been in a neighborhood.
8- Vex also suspects GiF.
9- I also suspect GiF being more hyperactive than usual.
10- Maria says that's not the issue, that there's dissonance between his words and actions.
11- I correct her in that I don't active in terms of posting, more like jittery.
12- I haven't slept in two days.
13- Vex agrees that GiF is jittery. Plans to call him scum, thinks the pace of the game is too slow.
14- Maria says it's easy to pocket neighbors and she's won every game she's ever been a scum neighbor in. Says she's also won an all-neighbor setup.
15- Vex asks about Volpe vs. Flavor Leaf
16- Vex asks Maria her opinion of claiming neighbors.
17- Maria asks why, says she's not opposed but wants to know why.
18- Vex calls Maria town and says claiming would be beneficial.
19- Maria says that's fine, asks about Dave, Volpe, and Ank.
20- I say there's no point in claiming neighbors yet since everyone is a neighbor. I also don't see the point in claiming the group.
21- Post Elements modkill, Maria calls it annoying and asks how to use it.
22- Vex hasn't read the game, says try to roleblock a group that we're scumreading.
23- I ask if we need to know the name of the group or if we target one member. I complain about the timing of the game but that I'm hoping to get on my feet.
24- Maria says she thinks we just target a person and block their whole group.
25- Reckoner confirms
26- Maria wants to block dave, also suggests DV.
27- I was townreading DV and scumreading dave, so I'd rather block dave.
28- Vex says he's fine with whoever.
29- Maria sends in her vote, wants more from Vex. Asks if I'm caught up and wants more of my thoughts.
30- I'm catching up now that I'm not sick.
31- Maria says okay
32- Vex says he plans to catch up
33- Maria says we can always not block, but she'd rather not because it helps her get reactions
34- Vex also doesn't want to no-block
35- Vex still catching up
36- Maria is AFK but voting dave for roleblock
37- Vex says his notes should be ready before day
38- I sent in my vote to block Dave, will be caught up by 2am
39- Vex's handwritten notes
40- Vex 100% townreads Maria, isn't sure about me
41- Vex has other thoughts but wants to ruminate on them
42- Maria is back
43- Maria comments on Vex's handwriting. Asks why she's town. Says they agree on DV. Wants to speak on Ank. Asks about A50. Asks if Vex still wants to block dave.
44- Maria calls Vex townlock. Complains that I'm not around.
45- Vex talks about writing notes by hand. Says Maria's posts in the hood and thread are both town. Asks what about Ank? Doesn't like A50's posts. Fine with a Dave block, scumreading Dave and DV. DV more than Dave.
46- Vex finds the Fark kill weird.
47- Maria says it was good to have a break during night.
48- Maria keeping a close eye on nom.
49- Vex says he won't read if they get 20 pages a day again. Says that's why he didn't post on day one.

End of page 2.

This is taking longer than I thought, if I can't finish before I leave for work, I'll finish tonight.

[kuribo]

Spoiler:

50- Maria says Vex townslipped but she can't elaborate without outting the hood.
51- Vex says that's fine.
52- Vex says he had intended to do it day one but was VLA
53- Maria doesn't like nom
54- Vex says nom is scummy
55- I say that nom's emotional outburst is town, the rest of the stuff is scummy but that I heavily consider the emotion more than anything else
56- I don't like EP asking for massclaim
57- Vex asks if nom's emotion was genuine. Agrees EP was scummy.
58- I say yes, I believe it was genuine and that scum faking emotion is actually extremely rare and easily noted. I complain about the length of day one, wishing people had actually been more emotional. I don't like EP's massclaim suggestion but it was interesting to note how people responded. Wishing people would stop trying to maximize mechanics.
59- panth says hi
60- I say hi
61- I discuss our night's roleblock. Mention we unanimously agreed dave was scummy and a good choice. Suggest doing it again since no one knew what ability he had and nobody complained about anything important being missing. I mention that I was townreading both Vex and Maria, partly because of our LMS ability and partly because I have other scummier people to worry about. I felt if either of them were scum, one of us would be dead because of the LMS ability.
62- Maria agrees with targeting dave.
63- panth complains about the length, asks if either of us are scumreading dave
64- Maria says yes
65- I also am scumreading dave
66- panth says dave is fine, notes we didn't block the NK
67- Maria corrects him that we can't block the NK, only their group ability
68- panth says whatever the rest of us do is fine
69- I'm annoyed with Firebringer and RC
70- Maria says she's voting where she is because FB is scum and annoying
71- I'm still pissed about being voteless, tell both of them that in no uncertain terms we're blocking that ability forever.
72- I ask about posting that we roleblocked dave. He hadn't claimed yet but he was obviously expecting something to happen.
73- I still don't think dave is town, but I also don't know who he's grouped with.
74- panth says dave doesn't need to know, but we can out it. Says we don't know what dave is claiming to have been blocked on. Suggests half-claiming.
75- I don't agree with fullclaiming. I don't trust dave, but I also don't feel it's a claim trap.
76- panth says fine, he'll out
77- I tell panth that if Dave questions the delay, just remind him that outting has other consequences and he needed to discuss it with the group
78- Maria questions if EP will think scum is in our hood
79- I agree with one of panth's in-game posts
80- panth asks if all mafia games nowadays are ego and bullshit
81- Maria says they are
82- panth doesn't like that
83- panth doesn't like this game
84- Maria asks what the fuck happened while she was gone
85- Maria referring to the DV wagon apparently
86- panth calls the wagon stupid, wants nom to die
87- Maria doesn't like nom's behavior
88- Maria doesn't think nom is scum. Doesn't like people using the vengeful as an excuse to lynch nom. Doesn't want nom lynched just because of vengeful.
89- panth wants every player in the game to die, can't read anyone.
90- Maria isn't townreading many people
91- I ask the mod about our roleblock being effective against LMS abilities. Mod PM'd me and replied no.
92- Maria says she'll keep pushing dave in case scum leaves him alive for being lynchable.
93- panth complains about nom being alive
94- Maria says she's explained her nom stance in thread
95- panth thinks the game sucks and everyone in it is a screaming egotist who relies on meta
96- Maria agrees
97- I agree that meta sucks, feel I contributed to site meta of screaming egotism
98- I start to wonder if I'm only townreading nom out of spite. Agree that I can see scummy behavior but that I'm not lynching a hard town read. Complain that it's hard sometimes for me to explain my reads because I read based on emotion and gut. Complain that current site meta makes reaction-reading hard.
99- I call dave town for being cagey about his results or lack thereof.
100- Maria agrees, wants to keep pretending to push him so scum doesn't NK him.
101- panth hates meta
102- Me too
103- I'm starting to think Ank is scum
104- Maria disagrees
105- I counter that EC is way more town than Ank
106- I still don't like Ank, ask if EC is capable of faking the goodposts
107- panth has never heard of EC
108- Maria says EC is capable of faking
109- I wonder if people townreading the EC posts are why Ank keeps posting so many of them
110- I explain to panth who EC is
111- panth starts thinking one of us is scum and that nom is town
112- Maria agrees that nom is town, wants to convince panth of her other reads
113- I complain about people on this site being idiots
114- I ask if Maria has any thoughts before her flip (this was after nom posted her vengekill)
115- Maria says panth isn't scum and doesn't want me to lynch him. Wants me to consult with my team.
116- I reply about Xtoxm thinking panth is scum. Mention that Pine called me a whiner. Mastina has been AWOL for weeks. Spouted vulgarity at pant.
117- Panth threatens to report me if I keep treating him like dirt
118- I tell him it's whatever, I'm still legit pissed, and explain why.
119- I complain that with a Maria scumflip, I'll actually have to go back and read her posts now
120- panth says he doesn't want to be in the game and has nothing to say to me.
121- I told him he wanted me to be nicer, and that's fine, that's what I'm doing. Agree I don't want to be here either.
122- I explain why this game is dogshit for me.
123- I told panth I was roleblocking Ank's group again
124- panth agreed

the end

[Firebringer]

Just when I became disinterested in flavor lynch people want to lynch him
Go figure

[Firebringer]

Need to examine the timing of what (little) FB has done today.

I’ll save u trouble.

Game day opened and I voted u

[Firebringer]

I think Firebringer is scum mostly because I think RC tried to specifically get a 1v1 between kuribo and me when he asked me to look at kuribos attack.

That timing was a bit too perfect and fits with the general gamestate progression.

I am known for good timing

[Firebringer]

I think flavor is town because I don’t think scum would give nom the gun when nom was wanting to shoot flavor

[Firebringer]

Ank do u think my unquestioned town faith in u is weird?