Titus v. Alisae (endgame)

[Weiss Schnee]

Idgaf about mass I want titus to confirm boon isn't mason so we can skip tse hero shooting town

-S

[Sherlock and Watson]

Idgaf about mass I want titus to confirm boon isn't mason so we can skip tse hero shooting town

-S

[Titus]

I think I know what happened last night. The lighthouse gem reveals all.

If Ank isn't responsible for the lack of a nightkill, then scum no killed or RR/FL prevented it. No one else is taking credit. We're not seeing scum in any rational universe deliberately shooting either.

We have Oka, gobble and SW as conftown.
Ank, Espy, and Pine as near conftown.
We have RR and Hectic as probtown.

That leaves TSE and FL as the PoE.

So, lynch TSE who avenges FL?

[Titus]

Idgaf about mass I want titus to confirm boon isn't mason so we can skip tse hero shooting town

-S

Explicitly saying FL is not a mason, but I don't want a fast day.

[OkaPoka]

As public servant for the PPP i humbly request your support for my bill, massclaim or die

[Sherlock and Watson]

That'd be fine if it was literally anyone else doing the venge shot

Tse is not going to venge boon if tse doesn't think it's boon

-S

[OkaPoka]

I have an old boon case somewhere in my iso

[Ankamius]

can you shut up about the massclaim

holy shit

[OkaPoka]

Spoiler: Timeline of quotes

wanna lynch flavor leaf

VOTE: flavor

Thus far OkaPoka/Sherlock through their comments towards me are town indicative.

At least I explained myself more extensively than your reads. So yes, I think my reads hold merit.

You said RR was scum for PoEing Boon and Esp when your reasons for townreading Boon is 100% pick spec and your reasons for townreading Esp is because he's posting

-S

I feel this isn’t fair. Most of my posts this game prior to today had literally been directed towards Bitmap, and Titus, Bitmap, Alisae, Math, and Chkflip just met up like a week and a half ago, so there’s momentum from that.

I think it’s more than just pick spec as you mentioned. I think Bitmap’s read and the fact that he is having trouble expressing it completely in the first part is incredibly townie.

this is just garbage

One of Krazy hydra/Ankamius, but exactly one of them.

You're kinda looking at this the wrong way though

Duck and SS get to pick

If Ali goes first and does a top priority heavy that isn't Ank, then Duck could very easily double on us for town

Which is precisely why you're basically just looking at the pick logic totally wrong, you're over-prioritizing what is actually an incredibly difficult puzzle to analyze. Focus on play, Boon, before you actually make me want to policy lynch you for real Like half of what you've said since you stopped actually solving is like pure cancer

-S

So? I post a lot. It’s not like I don’t analyze play whilst all this.

I also think my posting is fantastic for reactions.

We’ll see.

If I’m right, like I usually am when people push at me, at least 2/3 partially, you can ask PenguinPower on my solve capabilities at the expense of some minor casualties.

And this is a solid base of the puzzle. I found a good amount of puzzle pieces, and looking at em all before I start trying to piece it together.

I think one of the people who have posted against me tonight is scum, and almost exactly one of them.

I no longer town read OkaPoka either. Maki/Oka/Krazy slot have probably 1 maybe 2 scum within them, but more likely 1.

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your fake push

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your

fake

push

Your real push happened before mine, your fake push happened after

Okay what about lying about the history to create a false gamestate premise

No, you’re the one lying. I split your push into pre flavor being here and after. You’re one after i showed up is fake

Nah, i chang3d my mind on you before you were ever interactin with me, don’t misrep.

Like the above is an extremely condensed timeline of posts, there are a lot more relevant scum indcative posts of flavor but for all of your sakes I just quoted some important timeline events to make the conversation easier.

I think its pretty clear that

a) Flavor townread me at one point or the other
b) I shaded Flavor after his townread of me
c) He flipped his read on me after I shaded him, he acknowledges it here:

I think one of the people who have posted against me tonight is scum, and almost exactly one of them.

Like he has this idea bouncing around in his head that I'm targetting him because of his ability to draft speculate, which I mean I guess is fair? I did originally shade his draft speculation as garbage, but we can well -establish the fact that Flavor Leaf has in fact, flipped his read on me partially due to me shading him. This is self-evident.

So well, game moves on, and Flavor makes some interesting comments where suddenly he paints this picture ~a picture mind you where it looks like I'm pushing him reactively, it's the implication of a chainsaw defense, omgus push you name it. Which I find strange and lacking of, well consistency? Like we can acknowledge town are hypocrites and fickle, but when a decent portion of your read flip is a result of something happen, its awfully confusing and weird to suddenly misremember that detail isn't it? I mean sure, its perfectly possible for Flavor to have "gamestate" reasons to continue scumreading me, but what lead him there is exactly my shade on his draft spec, he

LITERALLY

acknowledges this and now he acts like I'm just simply acting in response to everything?

Which makes this even more strange, because Flavor Leaf, after being pressed on it, clarifies that I indeed had two pushes this game. A real push first, and a fake push. Which is weird because he never at first acknowledges the legitimacy of my first push until after he is pressed about it, and does so now in order to self-rationalize some sort of internal consistency. Like he continues to try and qualify and muddle his claim of how events transpire when its pretty clear that the start of his scumread on me is very much diametrically opposed to how he's trying to push me now. He's pushing me based on the implication that I'm omgusing, let's be honest. Since he hasn't really mentioned whatever that draft spec was nor is he really willing to elaborate much on his gamestate read. But that's just something townies don't do is it? You see townies add on their case constantly and let it evolve, but the core of the scumread isn't just something town forget in what? ~span of 24 hours?

idk dude maybe I'm just rambling but I figured making a post like this would be helpful since I appear not to be in the minority, but literally the sole person here who sees this.

And you think ScumFL, year of 2019 alone won 10 scum games, would be that obvious about flip flopping?

I mean comments like these, which I can probably find at least one more in your iso and many of your games are extremely effective and well - manipulative, though probably not AI so its best I don't case them up because you will do stuff like this on both sides.

I just want to make sure everyone here doesn't just buy into comments like these as evidence why Flavor Leaf is town.

Because if you break it down, it just leads to a bit of weird logic where nothing can really be incriminating to Flavor Leaf because Flavor Leaf wouldn't be this obvious, right? Like operating under this assumption just leads to WIFOM and self doubt because well, its like the RC argument where nothing is really incriminating to RC because scum!RC would've done x,y,z and won the game already. Like nothing can really stick to Flavor Leaf being scum because Flavor Leaf wouldn't be this obvious! Is the conclusion that would be drawn from this every time.

It's annoying and it works but before you go on and tell me why something like flip flopping is a special case that makes sense I'd like to tell you that as town Flavor Leaf has done this and it worked decently well where he was able to dodge lynches since he went back to the scum!Flavor isn't this obvious right. And Flavor as either alignment can pick that up and use it for future games so its not really AI.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons as to why a scum!Flavor just would've messed up here, or did a calculated play. I mean results-based analysis is the devil and all, but nobody is really considering him to be scum from these flops, I mean you have people townreading him for it and you even have people like AaronFrost who literally want me to go point out why flip flopping and wifom logic is scum motivated. Well, flip flopping by itself isn't really that scum motivated, its a lot more contextual than just saying Flavor Leaf flip flopped so he must be scum -that isn't what I'm arguing here, flip flopping isn't AI. Its the fact that he is conveniently leaving out details to push me in a way that contradicts his flip flop is what, in my eyes, so damning. You can of course tack on the whole chaos and confusion argument as well here, but that's a different premise as to why Flavor is scum that isn't going to be explored here. I want to just focus on this aspect of Flavor's game here, and why you shouldn't just buy into this crap, it works, he knows it works, and he's re-labelling my argument and boiling it down into a slightly morphed argument that is more easily defended against.

[OkaPoka]

can you shut up about the massclaim

holy shit

Theres like no reason not to massclaim idc if you want to have a cool reveal

[Ankamius]

cool

I don't care about your massclaim, idc what it does for you

[Ankamius]

you've been endlessly shouting for everybody to massclaim for over a full day phase now and it's annoying and distracting

[OkaPoka]

Gimme a good argument of why we shouldnt massclaim

[OkaPoka]

One scum left, we are in the process of just confirming townies to make this a mech solve

[OkaPoka]

Especially if tse hero venges its important he doesn't venge someone eho can be conf townd

[Ankamius]

One scum left, we are in the process of just confirming townies to make this a mech solve

I can guarantee right now that you will gain virtually nothing from me claiming my role and lose the value that my remaining shot can give

[Ankamius]

if you're worried about TSE heroshooting then just lynch boon

[OkaPoka]

Ok if titus wants you to not massclaim you can not claim but help me make others claim?

[OkaPoka]

Im not going to play suboptimally because of fear

If tse doesnt shoot boon but shoots someone who isnt confirmable then its annoying but a win is a win

[Titus]

Ok if titus wants you to not massclaim you can not claim but help me make others claim?

I respect your desire for massclaim. We still aren't.

@Ank, Confirm you are not responsible for no one dying please.

[Ankamius]

I am not responsible for the lack of deaths.

[OkaPoka]

TSE is a claimed babysitter just so you know Titus

[Ankamius]

btw if it wasn't obvious

I no actioned again

[Titus]

TSE is a claimed babysitter just so you know Titus

Right. I am covering the bases.

If TSE did believe he blocked the kill, the can say who he babysat last night.

[OkaPoka]

Titus can you have rr claim today