Open 774 || Purgatory — Game Over

[Amrun]

Another note - I felt like there was so, SO, so much resistance to the Amrun wagon. Like the entire time.

Why do you think this?

I felt the opposite. Of course we would have different perspectives on this.


I’m fine with an Elmo heaven too.

[implosion]

This VC probably had 3 town on the Amrun wagon. No one else showed any signs of jumping on to it, iirc. That isn't the meta-behavior of a ML wagon. Then wooper unvoted, then pops joined and then left. Then this morning Wooper and Ame both joined again... then both left again.

[Ame]

idk exactly the scum motivation but it feels slimy, maybe trying to avoid the appearance of TMI? I'm not sure what the agenda is I just know that thought process felt wrong

-Q

THIS MAKES NO SENSE

is this our normal all over again??

-Q

ummm does this mean what I think it means???

guaranteed winning strategy by heavening someone outside of those 3

I seem to recall someone mentioning this as the optimal strategy and certain other person hard-ish disagreeing

[implosion]

Essentially the resistance is "all of the people that stayed on the wagon consistently were town, and the other people (pops and ame) joined and left w/ the wind."

(Actually this might make me think Ame is town, need to think more on this)

[implosion]

I seem to recall someone mentioning this as the optimal strategy and certain other person hard-ish disagreeing

To be clear: I don't think we should actually literally do this. Just have it in mind as "good townreads are really valuable". This is true for any nightless game.

[Ame]

That's an interesting takeaway.
We could try and do STRQ. Problem is I think more than 1 scum ate just in the "people I don't want to murder on day one" pool here and of the people outside that pool there are a lot of people who I just don't want to murder.

idk exactly the scum motivation but it feels slimy,

maybe trying to avoid the appearance of TMI?

I'm not sure what the agenda is I just know that thought process felt wrong

-Q

@Q Please walk me through the bolded

@Implosion I don't get you, it's like you agree with me but want to disagree with me: you agree that good townreads are valuable, but didn't find the value in my Looker town case. You understand that using heaven to flip a is to our numeric advantage but disagree with it for???

[implosion]

The reason that I didn't really find value in the Looker thing is bc he was already town; but I might be changing my mind on it having no value now : x

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Another note - I felt like there was so, SO, so much resistance to the Amrun wagon. Like the entire time.

I got to a point where I was making a vote before sleep.
And I wanted the hydra dead but ya know. We all can't have our wishes.

[implosion]

Essentially I've come around to agreeing with you on some stuff since I was complaining about those things, at least to some extent. (@Ame).

[implosion]

Another note - I felt like there was so, SO, so much resistance to the Amrun wagon. Like the entire time.

I got to a point where I was making a vote before sleep.
And I wanted the hydra dead but ya know. We all can't have our wishes.

If anything it is actually convenient having you having been on the wagon because it narrows down who the scum on the wagon was a bit... I think.

[implosion]

Okay. The towncore is me, Elmo, Looker and Ame I think. 5th town is probably either S_S or pops; Amrun and STRQ are scum.

That's how I think I'm feeling right now. Someone convince me I'm wrong on something.

[popsofctown]

I don't see any reason to object to that when it's the variant where Azelf learned Nasty Plot

Time for catchup

[popsofctown]

I had a dream where Dannflor deleted my post where I accused S_S of avatarpocketing.
I'm a little embarrassed of my drunkpost It was yucky

Vote Wooper

Just something about this rubs me the wrong way still in the end of this. Sorry friend.

just to be safe you may wanna go use bold tags with a colon after vote (idk how fussy dann is about such things but there isn't like any time left to wonder)

just ftr regardless of our alignments both pops and I have made movements to pocket Elmo quite recently; pops' was a bit harder and Elmo has appeared to accept it more graciously but her voting me here is another situation where she's been offered an olive branch, then booped the offerer on the nose with it.

This isn't the behaviour of someone who needs to make friends itt.

Deadsheepable notion

That's an interesting takeaway.
We could try and do STRQ. Problem is I think more than 1 scum ate just in the "people I don't want to murder on day one" pool here and of the people outside that pool there are a lot of people who I just don't want to murder.

Definitely echoes to me.

We could try and do STRQ.

Oh is this what you're selling at one hour from deadline?

VOTE: Wooper

-Q

This looks like a really awful way to agenda-change / subject-change ever addressing STRQ's pops vote and how the BoP of it makes it extra valid for Qrow to provide justification for us to try to sort and the cherry on top is that STRQ is voting with his scumread voting Wooper here

Later on (I skimmed on my phone when I was eating five guys) he starts saying that he was starting to townread Wooper the last few pages but reading as someone who knows Wooper is scum cause I read the flip before I read these pages it doesn't seem difficult to reverse engineer that Wooper was townier on these pages than he had been most of the game.

I really don't get why Qrow is so threatened by the Wooper vote.

How confident are you on the wooper read?

idk I need to reread him now, I was townleaning him for a really silly reason before (I thought editing his profile avi for meme value was +townie) but I kinda felt like I was alone in that read in our disc chat

This is not scum indicative for Krazy he actually believes in this ish, for some reason he decided it was town indicative that I started using pink font in a game. I was town, so, I guess he could be right, who knows.

VC 1.10.HELL

Burn it Down

[4] Amrun : implosion, Looker, Wooper, Ame [3] Wooper : Amrun, popsofctown, Elmo Teh AzN [1] popsofctown : Team STRQ [1] Ame : Something_Smart [0] Not Voting : With 9 in limbo, it takes 5 votes to judge. The Hell Phase I deadline is in : (expired on 2020-03-05 16:59:39) Mod Notes : ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀     ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀                             ⠀

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[/font]

We could try and do STRQ.

Oh is this what you're selling at one hour from deadline?

VOTE: Wooper

-Q

Honestly, I'm down to see what happens.

VOTE: STRQ

We're at 4/4/1. If amrun pops elmo or just 3 more are down I'll flashwagon strq gladly.

I think if I were conscious I might have gone for this, I don't think I would have felt convinced STRQ is scummier than Wooper but panicwagons can be information rich. It's hard to say what I would have done for sure since I have found out I was wrong though.

So I'm scum because your hydra is slightly paranoid of me despite absolutely failing to engage with me in good faith at any point and because I floated a conversation point at a high tension point in the game over Amrun who is just null as shit

oh okay yeah now I think this might be scum duck

this reads a lot like EoD starcraft scum duck tbh

-Q

This is so awkward and weird. It would make me sense if it preceded the Wooper vote.

I'm here, catching up.

-Raven

Just a reminder this is Enter who I read like an open book and who has avoided producing content like the plague since I repped in : )

!

kinda just praying for the town in amrun/elmo/pops or for looker and implosion to log on

idk exactly the scum motivation but it feels slimy, maybe trying to avoid the appearance of TMI? I'm not sure what the agenda is I just know that thought process felt wrong

-Q

THIS MAKES NO SENSE

!
All awoken bind is cleared

shut up duck

Enter is kinda toxic sometimes

How does one be slightly...

Never mind.

Sometimes S_S is my spirit animal

[popsofctown]

My brain is a bit pretzelled about who to heaven because there seem to be colorable arguments that it's not as straightforward as heavening the player with the highest town equity

One point, although I think Elmo is town I'm not sure how I feel about her becoming Judgment Vig. She doesn't give off the vibe that she's having an easy time solving this game

[Team STRQ]

Yeah I don't know what to tell you, 759 looked awful and Wooper was a pretty good lynch since he had started hard diving into his scum meta. I had doubts and Enter wanted to hammer Amrun but duck seemed so far away from my experiences playing with him in town in any of the last three times I've played with him that I didn't want to let him get away

In any case, duckling is town irl but he can be very frustrating to play with, his paranoia about half the slots in my hydra knows basically no bounds and when he starts doing 'shenanigans' around deadline that's something I've almost exclusively seen from scum duck. It's easy to sit back post-flip and be like "oh yeah" but at the time the AtE and shade felt pretty overboard. This is the first time I have ever seen duckling be *like this* and I don't really feel bad about flipping him, tbh. If you think you were vibing with his posts then you just haven't seen enough scum duck to know that this is *exactly* how he plays scum

S_S seemed to think he could not get a CFD on our slot at deadline so it was "just talk" and yet somehow we got to three votes ahead of Amrun? So you tell me, why exactly would I be concerned about duck's charisma at deadline? You can't have it both ways, that it's simultaneously "just talk" but alkso we would have actually been mislynched if certain people had been on? Do you think the game is in a better position if duckling mislynches me and summer with deadline shenanigans and then gets himself mislynched later?

Also pops you're aware that your posts are basically unreadable on certain mobile devices/skins right?

Anyway I'm kinda tilted with duck's play frankly so later

-Q

[implosion]

If you think you were vibing with his posts then you just haven't seen enough scum duck to know that this is *exactly* how he plays scum

counterpoint

Wooper, Vanilla Townie , has been damned to Hell.

[implosion]

if this is *exactly* how he plays scum and he flipped town, then it is *you* who does not understand his meta...

but i digress. That's not the important point. I'm just a bit tilted with duck getting lynched.

I had doubts and Enter wanted to hammer Amrun but duck seemed so far away from my experiences playing with him in town in any of the last three times I've played with him that I didn't want to let him get away

If you get a chance, give some more detail about how exactly intra-hydra communication worked near deadline. Or do you just mean Enter talking about wanting to hammer Amrun in thread, and you weren't communicating about it outside of the thread?

[implosion]

but seriously, the argument "if you read him correctly this game then you just don't understand his meta" is tilting as fuck.

[implosion]

A brief digression: why Ame is actually super town. Exhibit A:

I definitely am, I can't believe what I've been missing!

@pops @amrun @all would you be willing to go S_S? I feel like wooper is a better heaven flip via the strategy I mentioned. S_S has done seriously nothing. This is my top choice, but enough people have scum read or had amrun on the periphery that I think she's also solid choice. I need to sleep now, but I should be on a few hours before the deadline to maneuver my vote where needed.

(btw I spent at least a minute looking for one of S_S's posts to iso, having forgotten he changed his avatar smh)

This post is pretty self-evidently fantastic after Wooper flipped town. Even if S_S is also town, Ame going out of their way to both derail Wooper momentum, and push Wooper as an ideal heaven 1 target, is a hard sell for scum. Listing S_S as a first choice and Amrun as a second choice is good, as I am pretty doubtful they're both town by numbers (though I suppose if they were both town then it'd certainly increase Ame's scum equity at that point). But like, the trajectory of saying "this is the optimal strategy" and then proposing action based on that strategy that is, in fact, furthering the town win condition, is a tricky sell to see scum doing often.

This is probably the weakest piece of why I think Ame is town, though. Exhibit B, and by far the better evidence for their being town:

Spoiler: multiquote

VOTE: Amrun

Last check in before deadline. On the train and surprisingly refreshed.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that both am and wooper are scum. woopers initial am case didn't really make sense and one the points he used to town read Elmo was based on the reverse logic that am was scum. That being said, I think he's been pushing her enough that it's less likely distancing than is. And I prefer to keep him since he has been actively engaged whereas Am has been more on the periphery.

( Sorry if wrong Am I honestly just haven't had the time to thoroughly dig into you :[ )

Boop

VOTE: STRQ

idk exactly the scum motivation but it feels slimy, maybe trying to avoid the appearance of TMI? I'm not sure what the agenda is I just know that thought process felt wrong

-Q

THIS MAKES NO SENSE

He is already dead on plurality, I won't hammer

Will you hammer Am if we switch back?

VOTE: Amrun

A few things here. One, the "last check in before deadline" followed by then doing more stuff before deadline is probably a very rare thing to see from scum in a vacuum. Two, this combined with the fact that they changed a vote to STRQ then back to Amrun is a very interesting thing to consider - why would scum-Ame do this? Presumably if scum-Ame wanted the lynch to be Amrun, then they'd have just... y'know, left their vote on Amrun and not checked in again before deadline like they said they would. But instead we get a vote somewhere else, then a vote back to Amrun. If Ame is scum who wants Amrun to be lynched I don't understand why they have the motivation to check back into the thread like this when the primary alternative is Wooper or possibly STRQ, who they voted for... if Ame is scum who didn't want Amrun to be lynched then I have absolutely no idea why Ame voted Amrun at the last second. This would be an *incredibly* elaborate bus, and if Amrun is town then like, it's such a flagrant thing to do. Not like, flagrantly anything, just flagrant. Too flagrant for scum to do. The existence of trying to collaborate with people in the last moments of the day as well. If Amrun is scum, then Ame is like, fully locktown from this. If Amrun is town I'd still put Ame as like, quite damn town for it.

[implosion]

Unrelated to all that, I also don't mind the way Ame interacted with me when I was brushing them off at all. The irkedness/flusteredness but still reaching out to try to explain shit to me in 695 is exemplary of this.

[implosion]

(maybe flustered is a mischaracterization but I think it's visible what I'm getting at)

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Hey I still hate the hydra woooo.

[Team STRQ]

That was bullshit.

Wooper I wish you could see my PT because it's literally just Krazy insisting you're scum and denying my desire to hammer you.

[Team STRQ]

I should have taken the vote when I had the chance.

[Team STRQ]

@imp

I wanted to hammer Amrun and Krazy and I argued about it in the discord past day end.

I'm not going to go over his head because he has more experience and when he's insisting on it and has been here for more of the day than me.