So basically what I got from rereading a bunch of dave+Flavor+Maria's isos together
(and then some of panth+Flavor+Maria's later)
is that dave's day 1 play feels weird for how much he interacted with scum, but is otherwise pretty damn good, and if we had gone from Day 1 or day 2 or probably day 3 into a Maria lynch+FL lynch+DEB lynch I'd probably feel mostly fine about him (though I'd still bitch about how little it felt like he scumhunted imo in days 2 & 3)
In post 244, davesaz wrote:Fl link a town game you started off disinterested in. I just saw a scumgame where you weren’t your usual playful self.
In post 441, davesaz wrote:BTW serious FL is still not fun FL. Be interesting to find out post game whether this is all because of that naked vote though.
In post 438, davesaz wrote:Actually, there's also a big difference between not liking and not being on board. I had something like 4 pages to read and another one got posted while I wrote my 2nd post.
I'm gonna take my wife to get ice cream. Hopefully FL has pulled his head out his ass with respect to me before I'm back.
No, what I said was not on board. Not joining along with, which carries no direct connotation of agreeing with or not agreeing with. I guess it does carry a vague kinda "wtf is that" feel. And that post was
strictly
about the page containing the post I quoted the reads list from.
I have a very strong mistrust of that Elements town read, which seems completely unwarranted especially given the ratio of Elements posting of real content to a dozen others. That may or may not result in an independent scumread there regardless of what your thing yields.
Pedit: you can turn off the self promotional subtext. I'd like to be able to continue enjoying the game, please.
In post 1081, davesaz wrote:Wow, I would have thought Maria had played enough games with me to not be so completely wrong about what to expect.
In post 228, Flavor Leaf wrote:Dave’s played with me way too much to know I take some time to pounce into my town games to immediately go straight towards a vote, so I’m curious on the follow up.
I like to make a grand entrance; i take over games too much with the present of my presence
I don't think I'm really on board with what FL is doing on the page I'm reading, but this reads list struck me as strange. In particular what has Elements done to deserve being highest town read?
People act like I’m some pariah god here. Without any meta on me as a player, this would have been taken much better.
Also, Volpe’s scum list is literally a combination of anyone going after him.
I feel scum are more likely to defend townVolpe in this scenario, so if Volpe is town, dave is probably lock scum.
In post 431, Flavor Leaf wrote:@Nomnom - if Volpe is town, they have me pushing them. Scum will position themselves on both sides. They wouldn’t need to join my side just yet. They’d get enough pressure based on my push.
Dave’s also lock scum, and you can see how he’s positioning.
Yes, it was a lolvote. Thought I'd take a swing at a beehive and see what happened.
You need to read my entire post before trying to interpret whether I'm defending Volpe. (hint: not)
There is a big difference between liking / not liking the substance of a push, and having a read on the target.
Yes, it was a lolvote. Thought I'd take a swing at a beehive and see what happened.
You need to read my entire post before trying to interpret whether I'm defending Volpe. (hint: not)
There is a big difference between liking / not liking the substance of a push, and having a read on the target.
I don’t care if people like my push or not, it’s a completely valid reason to push.
People always talk about 3rd or 4th on the wagon is scum, screw that noise, I’m going less surface level with it.
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, it’s worth diving into.
This has been a great discussion starter, and now look at us.
In post 438, davesaz wrote:Actually, there's also a big difference between not liking and not being on board. I had something like 4 pages to read and another one got posted while I wrote my 2nd post.
I'm gonna take my wife to get ice cream. Hopefully FL has pulled his head out his ass with respect to me before I'm back.
pedit: and another half page writing this one
I just kinda think you’re scum here, tbh. I can’t really explain it yet, but yeah. I do expect you to play in a way to balance my read on you if you are scum, so
You don’t like the push but you’re on board...?
Who’s on PenguinPower’s team? I need him here. You know how many games I went 3 out of 5 of these guys are scum. Idk which 3. And was correct? Idk the relevancy of that, but it popped into my head here.
Oh, right, because people were like, nope don’t like that FL, you’re not right. And i was right.
In post 441, davesaz wrote:BTW serious FL is still not fun FL. Be interesting to find out post game whether this is all because of that naked vote though.
Idk, man. I just feel it. My gut is generally pretty good at that kind of stuff, and if I’m wrong, I don’t think I’m necessarily bad at reading you.
I feel I’d figure it out eventually. I’m not pushing you today.
In post 538, davesaz wrote:@FL why did you jump from FoS on chenn to a hard attack on someone who voted him?
In post 318, chennisden wrote:FL you are doing a really good job putting words in my mouth that weren't there
Someone’s getting Third Degree Boon’d, they just don’t know it yet.
Also, I just kind of say random surface level stances on things until someone comes off as actually scummy early game.
But day 4 is fucking gross, it's the day when he could get away with the most because he didn't want to actually give reads in that time, Maria townread that because ???, and every time a scum member brought up thinking he might be scummy during it they clarified that they didn't think he would be lynched that day or just said they weren't going to push dave that day
This is every single vote he made Day 4, put alongside FL's posts before his (who he just said he was somewhat suspicious of that day) and a couple contextual Ank/EP posts
In post 5351, Firebringer wrote:Scum removed me because they want to ensure nom has venge because she is gonna shoot wrong and they want her to save them work
Which is what Maria says as point 2 and I agree
So let’s not lynch nom
Yet you voted me? This is kind of a contradiction by you because I’ve been actively trying to not have Nomnom be the lynch here.
Biggest thing that gives me pause on DEB is Maria pushing it, but I’m okay killing there.
VOTE: DEB
Curious to what happens.
In post 5379, davesaz wrote:I think DEB is similar here to D&D where he was cult leader. VOTE: DEB
But it literally might just be as simple as Gamma + Davesaz + 2 in the roleblocker hood
No shit the gamestate is like this if all the attention is on the all town hoods
The night actions of the commute and doctor hood make sense as all town
Revealing my neighborhood makes sense
Removing FB was to add more tension onto nom and remove the commute
Me + EP is a distraction, nom is a distraction
To me it really feels like dave was going along with what his scumteam was doing for most of the game - Maria needed an excuse to roleblock him night 1? Bam that's provided with Maria and dave butting heads a little day 1 and then dave just shrugging off Maria roleblocking him as not alignment relevant for her later. DEB's getting the first serious push of the game? Make a post asking Ank whether the wagon being all-town includes him even though he doesn't seem like he's been townreading DEB before that and I don't think it makes sense as an assumption from Ank's posts alone. FL needs help pushing town wagons day 4 to try to secure the win? dave is there. People are finally bothering to push FL on his slip with Maria? There's dave again defending it and trying to direct the conversation away with it until Almost makes it clear that the FL wagon isn't going away, and then dave immediately jumps on and hops off again later when Firebringer is poking him.
Panth has not been around a ton, and he has going along with Maria as a strong town read without much thought against him, but to me at least his reactions to the game feel more natural, his townread on FL the day FL got lynched feels like an actual townread instead of an excuse for not voting him sooner, and he's imo felt more like a town player getting invested and irritated at the game than dave has. I DON'T think he has really any interactions with scum that are implausible to fake, and his play hasn't been particularly engaged through a lot of the game so I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if I was wrong. But I also think that panth hasn't really had a cohesive plan this game - his play has been "push nom because she's scummy - push DEB because his play is garbage and my neighbors told me too", which I personally think is more likely to be a town mindset than a scum one. Maybe he was expecting FL/Maria to carry the game for him once he replaced in as scum, but I can't help but think he'd just be doing more to either help his partners or muddy the waters if he or they got lynched.
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MY SUMMARY IS: I would like to lynch dave and please read the above for why if you haven't already. If you're convinced panth is scum then I won't shed a tear over it but this is what I would personally like to do.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
In post 3221, Flavor Leaf wrote:I think there’s scum in the commuter hood, the Fakran hood, and the Volxen hood.
Going by the primitive rule of 1 in 3, dave is TOWN. Could you please just trust me on this? I mean, we're down to just 1 scum alive, so we can lynch him (and lose) the day AFTER tomorrow if the game goes that long.
Going by the primitive rule of 1 in 3, dave is TOWN. Could you please just trust me on this? I mean, we're down to just 1 scum alive, so we can lynch him (and lose) the day AFTER tomorrow if the game goes that long.
As someone who just went through what felt like half the dumb game I can find you at least two rule of threes that point to panth being town by that logic too, FL is talking about neighborhoods and not players anyway
If either of Fire/kuribo want panth dead then panth lynch is happening
if they both want dave instead then as I said I'd prefer that
If the day is still going on let's say Sunday I'll also just hammer panth so chill
In post 6518, Flavor Leaf wrote:Here’s the thing, I started thinking, and the player that we would agree on as a compromise lynch, my go to person I was about to say was “I could do Dave.”
However...I feel like because I was about to say that without thinking, that he is a mislynch.
and to be clear I think there's a 0% chance that you're scum this game Almost, you getting legitimately mad at me for my 'no shit sherlock' comment day 1 when you wanted DEB dead over all the other lurkers doesn't come from scum trying to bus day 1, not to mention all the other shit you've done since near the end of day 4 that's made you obvtown
but yeah I think dave's scum and if it's not it's incredibly likely to be panth because I think literally everyone else in the game has STRONG reasons to be town, and I want the sweet sweet bragging rights of us lynching the last 3 scum consecutively but panth first and then dave still wins us the game so *shrug*
His reads trend downward as the game reaches midgame and endgame so I wouldn't hold out too much hope that he'll find something much more convincing outside of those 2
In post 7487, kuribo wrote:I don't like that Dave has a similar void of townie looking stuff. I think he had one or two days of good play where outting his ability bought him time, and that enveloped around that time period is some evasive looking behavior.
I think there could be merit in the idea that he didn't want to have to clear someone and so he didn't kill anyone.
I think his vote on you is defensive.
I think Dave's entire play has been defensive.
In post 7400, kuribo wrote:I've never been good at wall posts or making long cases or anything like that, and frankly I don't think anyone in their right minds would expect me to anyways.
I do want to say that A50 is by far my strongest town read, and I'm very heavily townreading Gamma as well.
I'm still unsure about panth being scum, but Xtoxm thinks that's just reluctance on my part because of our personal blowout. ie, he thinks I feel guilty for being pissed off at panth before and it's tainting my read on him.
Dave's play has been one or two shining moments of towniness with a lot of bad stuff that looks worse and worse in hindsight. I'd lynch this at this point.
I still don't like a lot of FB's play and interaction towards me. Whether it's scum indicative or just bias, I don't know. I do like that he clarified things with me regarding RC today. I don't think FB-scum tries to bring me to his pocket by saying "oh, RC doesn't hate you." I think in his case it's easier for him to simply continue fueling that and drag me into another pissfight.
In post 7530, kuribo wrote:I want more from Dave besides a naked vote to save himself
This bugs me enough to just post my role pm and get it over with.
But I'd like to serve the site as a listmod or even admin. Can't do that as a rule breaker.
Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord
In post 7530, kuribo wrote:I want more from Dave besides a naked vote to save himself
Asked and answered.
I have said who is scum and why.
That's it.
Either lynch me and lose, or lynch someone else and win.
I'm done talking about it.
I wasn't asking you to repeat yourself. I was answering Ank's question regarding my opinion of you and the gamestate. She wanted examples of me showing why you're my #1 choice.
Your assertion is that gamma is scum, right? But you also questioned FB's usefulness and compared it to DEB's. So is FB scum?
Lemme phrase this even simpler:
Suppose you get lynched and flip town. If I were to survive the night and wake up tomorrow, then channel your ghost into my hatred, who would you want the Murdercock to destroy?
Or pretend for a moment you're vengeful and you have the chance to end the game. Who would you shoot?
No explanation. No bullshit. Just tell me whose lynch you feel wins ya the game.
One of my two obvscum thought it was important enough to avoid being tracked and were unsure enough whether I had commuted or not that they took a gamble on not killing.
Or Gamma is a high enough kill priority that they killed into a BP to try to get to the point they can actually kill him.
Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord
If you had a track left I'd hope to god you'd have said so instead of letting yourself get run up the flagpole and then declaring that you were deleting your bookmark
Like you've been on the table for daaaaaaays at this point and it's only now, on day 7 when you might be lynched that you're all "let me live another day I might have a track left!" Even though you've had investigative abilities for four days now and nothing to show for them.
This isn't some situation where you rolled investigative, it's a situation where scum can claim the role for itself.
Be interesting to find out post game whether this is all because of that naked vote though. 
