Everything Is Still A Lie v2 [Canceled]

[Rautherdir]

So, we know Korina is judge and jury. I can only assume he is also executioner.
We also probably want to

not guilty

Minstrel since scum will likely guilty to force the lynch. And the stated reason for this trial is based on what is apparently a joke-claim.

[Rautherdir]

We also probably want to not guilty Minstrel since scum will likely guilty to force the lynch. And the stated reason for this trial is based on what is apparently a joke-claim.

He also hasn't claimed any significant town powers. If the slot is just a VT, then mislynching a VT and going into night before the town power structure is revealed with bad pushes can be very pro-town. Conversely, he's already retracted a joke wincon which both heads wrote a poem to sell so I don't really see this slot as town tbh

Counterpoint: the VT is effectively an IC in this game.
Counterpoint 2: THE GAME JUST STARTED. JOKE CLAIMS ARE TO BE EXPECTED. Unless the claim is miller. Or that other claim as soon as possible role that I can't remember off the top of my head.

[Rautherdir]

oh i misread lol
thought it said we could
-mm

Ah, yeah. That would have been broken. Then again I guess there isn't anything stopping someone from forging a role pm.

p-edit
I'm going to guess after the trial ends.

[Rautherdir]

Counterpoint 2: THE GAME JUST STARTED. JOKE CLAIMS ARE TO BE EXPECTED. Unless the claim is miller. Or that other claim as soon as possible role that I can't remember off the top of my head.

he claimed the poetry wincon after he was trialed

Okay cool.
Counterpoint 3: He claimed the joke-wincon after he was trialed.

[Rautherdir]

Counterpoint 3: He claimed the joke-wincon after he was trialed.

sure

but why then are you operating under the assumption that, if he was trialed simply because korina (cult) wanted him to be trialed, that he is therefore town?

From what I can tell, the trial required a vote to start. Meaning more then one player voted to trial Minstrel. At this point in the game I'm fairly certain there aren't any town reasons to do a trial on a player.

My point is more that we shouldn't end the day this early. If we could abstain I'd go for that but the risk of scum forcing our lynch is too high. I'm not saying Minstrel is town. I'm just saying we can't risk ending the day this early and going into day 2 when not everyone has even posted (I think. I might be wrong there.)

[Rautherdir]

Also, nice to play another game with you Hectic. Guess I'm keeping you from getting lynched yet again. And if you're a Jester this game maybe just tell us, so we can get that over with?

p-edit
I believe ending the day while we're still in RVS is anti-town.

[Rautherdir]

I'm saying I would abstain on Minstrel if I could, but the possibility of a forced mislynch is too high. I'm also saying it's been less then 24 hours since the day started and quick-lynching is heavily anti-town without a guilty. And even with a guilty it's still bad.

[Rautherdir]

It could be. But you're acting like you should, as policy, innocent Minstrel, which seems like a good way to not take a position on his alignment or take the time to sort him. Why would you prefer a continued RVS in a bastard cult game rather than evaluating the slot that you functionally have to evaluate right now?

See here's the thing. You say this like we have to evaluate the slot right now. We don't. We can just not guilty the slot today and then if we later decide that slot is scum, lynch them on a later day.

[Rautherdir]

I don't want to commit to giving Minstrel lynchproof tbh

It's just for today. And I'm 90% sure if we don't

not guilty

Minstrel they'll end up being found guilty.

[Rautherdir]

big "we" there tbh

does the likelihood that it's multiball change anything for you tbh?

It's guaranteed multiball.

And no. It doesn't. It's just as anti-town to quick-lynch.

[Rautherdir]

oh I didn't realize it ended day tbh

feel like this could be a gambit but I guess I'll move to not guilty tbh

If it's a gambit then we can guarantee that the jury is scum. And then if we ever find out that Minstrel is part of the jury then we lynch them.

[Rautherdir]

The Jury isn't even a slot lmao. It's a role that covers many people. I'll reveal that much about how it works. Any other jurists can confirm that statement.

pedit: Yea, or ToS. Take your pick of the two.

My statement still stands.

[Rautherdir]

Since when is ending a day less then 24 irl hours in good for town? Please tell me that. I have a light-town read on minstrel because why in the world would multiple people have a scum read on a slot less then 24 hours after the game began.

p-edit
Ah. So, you picked someone random then. I guess that shifts it to a null-read on Minstrel? Or a not-cult read.

p-edit 2
Jester lynch wouldn't have ended the game and a Jester lynch would have been a not-me lynch, so yeah.

[Rautherdir]

there's very low value in a jester claiming this early for one reason tbh

it's boring tbh

Yeah, me and Hectic are talking about Grand Idea uPick, hosted by Korina. In which I was a werewolf and Hectic was a Jester, and I ended up town-reading Hectic and calling off their lynch because they were too scummy to be scum. (That was a brief summary and I might have mis-remembered exactly how it went down.)


I also just learned by accident that you can highlight text in a post and hit quote and only the highlighted text will be quoted. Didn't know that.

p-edit
This is not the most bastard game so far. I have been in a game where I was basically a Mafia Jester. (Mafia Goon, but could only actually win if I was lynched

and

the rest of the Mafia achieved their win-con.)

[Rautherdir]

Why are you indifferent to him backpedaling on a claim, joke or not?

It's been less then 24 hours since the game started. I would be more surprised if someone claimed their actual role this soon after the game started. (With the exception of those roles that should claim as early as possible.)

[Rautherdir]

But presumably people can still roleclaim via whisper so long as they don't quote?

Yes, you can claim your role in whispers, so long as you're not quoting it or directly pasting it. Just paraphrase your role in whispers, like you would in the main thread. It's not hard.

Korina. Could there any roles like forger or janitor?
Could there be a role capable of eavesdropping whispers?

This is a highly bastard game, where I'm the moderator and the player. Really anything goes in this game.

I asked the mod. There is exactly one VT. No more, no less. We should threat it as an innocent child which can reveal anytime.

Why do you believe the mod is telling the truth about this?

Check post zero. I stated that there is exactly one VT role.

So if I went /Modkill (Player)

Could I potentially get that player modkilled?
After all you said anything goes.
-TSE

I mean, there's a non-zero chance of that being possible. Korina actually flipped having that ability, basically.

Also, just realized that if we have a Jester in the game they

will

vote Guilty in these trials. So I'm not sure if we can go for abstain until we know if there's a Jester or not.

[Rautherdir]

I don’t get your jester logic tbh

Don’t they want the player not to be lynched so they have a shot at being lynched tbh

They want to get lynched. A guilty on Minstrel in this situation would probably get them lynched.

[Rautherdir]

-snip-

Hmm?
Your post here seems like your trying to make people vote guilty.
You Jury?
Also 1 Guilty doesn’t beat all the Non-Guilty’s.
The fact you say “Jester might be guilty so you should not abstain on this”
Is something a town member would say.
I think I’m good with putting you on my Scum reads but I’ll get MM’s input on it.

-TSE

... What?
I'm advocating for Not Guilty. Have been for a while.

I don’t get your jester logic tbh

Don’t they want the player not to be lynched so they have a shot at being lynched tbh

They want to get lynched. A guilty on Minstrel in this situation would probably get them lynched.

Not necessarily if they have a good reason for it.
Also the Jester doesn't directly want to openly reveal themselves either.

-TSE

They probably won't have a reason for voting not-guilty
And maybe, maybe not. Depends on the player.

[Rautherdir]

^ Jesters probably won't have a reason for voting guilty.

I'm guessing town would be more likely not to have a reason for voting not-guilty? Not really sure, that would probably be NAI.

[Rautherdir]

Since when is ending a day less then 24 irl hours in good for town? Please tell me that. I have a light-town read on minstrel because why in the world would multiple people have a scum read on a slot less then 24 hours after the game began.

p-edit
Ah. So, you picked someone random then. I guess that shifts it to a null-read on Minstrel? Or a not-cult read.

p-edit 2
Jester lynch wouldn't have ended the game and a Jester lynch would have been a not-me lynch, so yeah.

This seems exaggerated. It was only me and Obvious scum who expressed a scum read for Hectic. So where’s this coming from?

I stated that my reason for light-town-reading Minstrel was because I assumed scum had orchestrated the Trial. Because I didn't see any reason for people to have a scum read on Minstrel this early in the game.
I then stated that picking someone randomly was also an adequate explanation, after Korina effectively stated that was what happened.

[Rautherdir]

^ Basically, I was saying that since there aren't enough scum-reads to create a town-motivation for the Trial, the Trial was probably scum-motivated, which would make Minstrel more likely to be town. I then realized that isn't necessarily true, because they might have picked someone at random.

p-edit
I agree that the trial was a waste. It did get us out of RVS but it could have been a lot more effective. Maybe next time don't use an ability like that right out of the gate.

p-edit 2
Why yes. I did in fact say that. Thank you for agreeing with me.

[Rautherdir]

Since when is ending a day less then 24 irl hours in good for town? Please tell me that. I have a light-town read on minstrel because why in the world would multiple people have a scum read on a slot less then 24 hours after the game began.

p-edit

Ah. So, you picked someone random then. I guess that shifts it to a null-read on Minstrel? Or a not-cult read.

p-edit 2
Jester lynch wouldn't have ended the game and a Jester lynch would have been a not-me lynch, so yeah.

I stated that my reason for light-town-reading Minstrel was because I assumed scum had orchestrated the Trial.

yeah, except it's multiball,

so all this trial tells us is that the slot is probably not cult. That doesn't make the slot town.

(Emphasis added be me)
This is the agreement. You agreeing with me that this makes Minstrel not-cult, and otherwise null.

[Rautherdir]

If the person on trial is found guilty then they are immediately lynched, and lynching ends the day, so yes.

p-edit
If the person on trial is found not guilty they become lynchproof for the rest of the day, and the day continues.
If everyone abstains, the day continues, but the person on trial does not get lynchproof for the rest of the day.

p-edit 2
Long days are bad for town, yes.
Short days are even worse.

[Rautherdir]

Ok, the only way

Is for all town to abstain

Not giving lynchproof

It's just for the rest of the day. And I already know who I want to lynch today, and it isn't Minstrel, so I don't care. Also, I'd Not Guilty just to spite the Jury at this point. They made bad decisions, I'd like to make them live with the consequences.

[Rautherdir]

Trying to drag the gamestate into an abstract discussion of day 1 pacing policy I take as a scumclaim

Too easy to make provocative points about philosophy that have no actual bearing to the alignment of the player under consideration or anyone else

It shouldn't be a discussion. That should be basic knowledge.

[Rautherdir]

The jury consisting of the dead cult bastard moderator/player made a bad decision?

And probably four other players. Including the dead cult moderator, who said they didn't vote for Minstrel.

[Rautherdir]

I thought you said...
Actually I'm not sure why I thought you would be consistent.

[Rautherdir]

Saying you should give the person on trial a trial is "suicidal"?

If you act as though the trial itself is moot then the votes tell us nothing and we waste an opportunity to evaluate votes cast in stealth

I mean. The trial is moot. Town isn't going to come to a decision that Minstrel is scum. Not this early in the game. But if we don't make it obvious then we just give scum the chance to possibly guarantee a kill on town. Which should be avoided if possible.

p-edit
By saying to give Minstrel an actual trial. Allowing for the chance that Minstrel is found guilty means allowing the day to end at lightspeed.

[Rautherdir]

The jury consisting of the dead cult bastard moderator/player made a bad decision?

And probably four other players. Including the dead cult moderator, who said they didn't vote for Minstrel.

so like half the game is in the jury then?

5 / 23 = 21.7%

Which is a lot less then half. (23 because I'm counting both Korina and chkflip as players. Although I'm not sure if chkflip is a player, so it might just be 22)

[Rautherdir]

As far as I can tell the members of the jury had to vote to put Minstrel on trial to make it happen. Which would be 3 or 5 people depending on if it had to be unanimous or not. My reason for town-reading Minstrel was because I assumed scum was responsible for calling the trial, thus making Minstrel less likely to be scum. The fact they chose someone at random could mean town was responsible though, which shifted it to a null read.

You seem to be under the impression Korina is the only reason Minstrel is on trial which to all evidence I can see is not the case.

[Rautherdir]

Since multiple people apparently can't follow the logic in that post, here it is.

In order for there to be a town motivation to put Minstrel on trial, multiple Jurists would have had to have scum-read Minstrel. Since I couldn't believe that to be the case less then 24 hours into the game, that led me to believe the Jurists must have had a scum motivation. Which would make Minstrel less likely to be scum, and more likely to be town.
I neglected to consider that there's a neutral motivation to vote someone at random.

I wasn't talking about scum-reads in thread. I was talking about scum-reads from the jurists.

[Rautherdir]

2

Which isn't in the mod-confirmed font, but is in the 'Everything except flips are guaranteed truthful' section of the game.

(There's also 322 and 171)

[Rautherdir]

Alright, you’re cleared buddy, pending further notice.

Thoughts on Iconeum’s progression there?

I'm thinking overly paranoid town right now, I doubt scum would be that obvious.

p-edit
That would be pretty hilarious though.

[Rautherdir]

@Korina

is the only way to end the Trial early to vote Guilty or Not Guilty? As in we can't reach a majority through Abstain?

[Rautherdir]

^ Only other way to end the trial early, outside of a dayvig.

[Rautherdir]

Fonz, couldn't you just openly fake a post restriction if you really wanted one?

[Rautherdir]

Are we even able to change our vote in the trial?

[Rautherdir]

Alright, insomnia seemed to imply they couldn't; and I wasn't going to try and test by changing my vote.

[Rautherdir]

I regret my vote decision.

This would imply they can't, wouldn't it?
Or I guess that they are changing their vote decision, because they regret it.

[Rautherdir]

You have to PM The Jury your vote, as per 174

[Rautherdir]

Or they could send the whispers the following day, and have their Last Will hold their targets in case they die.

See, this game has both Whispers and Last Wills.

[Rautherdir]

I would assume so. I'm guessing Korina will just use the latest version of your will.

p-edit
A lot of discussion about how the trial was poorly used, and also a few songs and haikus.

[Rautherdir]

does the person on trial being declared innocent make them lynchproof?
ive heard that thrown around and if so im probably changing my vote to abstain

-mm

It will make them lynchproof for the rest of the day. Which shouldn't matter as far as I'm concerned.

Needless to say, it would take

everyone

voting abstain to both not lynch and not make them lynchproof. Which I doubt would happen considering ObvScum has stated they're voting Guilty.

[Rautherdir]

I think the unexpected part was that it wasn't more then 19 pages already.

[Rautherdir]

I don't think I could ever vote guilty on Hectic, but I definitely could fit Norwee.....but only for reasons.

Definitely could vote Norwee guilty.

Not sure where I could fit him.

Post Edit: Why do you conclude that I am going to vote guilty from that?

I seem to recall there being prior discussion of wanting to lynch half of that hydra, but not the other half. Which was actually before this whole trial thing. Anyone here played with Norwegian before? I haven't.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, I guess Hectic probably has, but I don't think asking Hectic how Norwegian normally plays would actually work.

p-edit
To be fair, you're not the only person here I haven't played with.

p-edit 2
Not sure why you felt you needed to agree with your partner about town-reading me, but okay.

[Rautherdir]

I see. Cool, guess I'll just try to read Hectic then. Maybe. I'll figure that out later.

[Rautherdir]

Well, it just feels a bit weird considering you (the hydra) only has one other expressed read that I can see.

So, do you have any reads on... TSH and/or Chemist?

[Rautherdir]

Highest posting slots that aren't Korina, ObvScum, insomnia, or you. Though honestly I'm not sure why I excluded insomnia.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, to be fair I'm not sure I would actually expect you to do more then a surface level read at this point in the game. The mod literally has more posts then anyone else in the game right now.

[Rautherdir]

... Would it be mean if I started calling Chemist 'tbh'
Actually that would more likely be annoying and highly prone to cause misunderstandings, never mind.

[Rautherdir]

Huh. So, everyone who placed a guilty vote on Minstrel except DEB had a reason in-thread. Interesting.

insomnia and ObvScum: did either of you try to change your vote?

[Rautherdir]

Well, I'm also going through the Not Guilty votes, but that will take longer.

[Rautherdir]

And on the Not Guilty side Korina and 50 Judge Powers didn't explain or hint why they voted Not Guilty. Though I'm not actually expecting Korina to explain himself here.

Can't really analyze Abstain as easily since not voting is counted as Abstaining.

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: DEB
Voting more to maybe make sure you see this: care to explain why you voted Guilty for Minstrel? You didn't give a reason. (I'd also like an explanation from 50 Judge Powers, though honestly they're a hydra so they might have discussed it on their own and forgot to discuss it in the open.)

Basically, I'm wondering if some player of the anti-town persuasion didn't notice that the votes would be public and tried to sneak a vote of Guilty in. Less so looking for a potential Minstrel partner trying to sneak a vote of Not Guilty in, since Minstrel was the one who asked if the votes would be public or not.

[Rautherdir]

(I'd also like an explanation from 50 Judge Powers, though honestly they're a hydra so they might have discussed it on their own and forgot to discuss it in the open.)

Hint: he's not a hydra.

-gun

Pretty sure they're a hydra.
Also pretty sure it isn't even a secret one, for that matter.

[Rautherdir]

Pretty sure they're a hydra.
Also pretty sure it isn't even a secret one, for that matter.

He's not. It's a "hydra" of three alt accounts.

-gun

.......

Oh.
Well in that case.

[Rautherdir]

Ah. Guess I missed that.

[Rautherdir]

What are you gonna do? Dayvig me?

Can you even dayvig a dead player?

[Rautherdir]

I will scumread anyone who votes Korina without explaining why they would want a no-lynch.

[Rautherdir]

(I mean, traditionally an unlynchable player can still get votes, it just ends they day in a no lynch if they would be lynched. If you were unvotable that would be different)

[Rautherdir]

Dead players can't usually be voted though; so, yeah.

p-edit
No vest would be voting either Abstain or Guilty.

[Rautherdir]

what the flipping zero is a toneread?

that means you strongly townread me because you "toneread me scum" right?

-TL

I should probably SR chemist for the transparent pocketing tbh

-TL

what the flipping zero is a toneread?

that means you strongly townread me because you "toneread me scum" right?

-TL

what tbh

you scumread my tone, therefore you think I'm a solid pick for the townblock, therefore you're trying to pocket me because you're scum.

-TL

Are you JK Rowling here? Why would you get the impression Chemist is townreading you based on scumreading your tone?

-Hectic

What even is that sequence of posts.

I mean... What? How does that make any sense?

p-edit
Datisi is the other head, iirc

p-edit 2
Even worse: Unlynchable Jester.

[Rautherdir]

Hectic was a 1-shot unlynchable 1-shot bulletproof Jester in a recent game. In which I town-read them for being too scummy to be scum.

[Rautherdir]

Wait, two people have different meta reads on the same person?

The only option is to let them fight it out. This is obviously TvS. (I might be slightly sarcastic here. Or not. You figure it out.)

[Rautherdir]

Go to bed Gun, we're not lynching Icon yet. I have a question for DEB to answer first.

[Rautherdir]

@insomnia: So, what you're saying is, you and Gun are probably TvS because you have differing meta reads?

[Rautherdir]

^ (Granted, with the additional step of Gun voting you for the differing meta read)

[Rautherdir]

Scum-reading, not voting. Why am I having so much trouble with that recently.

[Rautherdir]

Aren't there PTs for that?

But seriously, I got a general feeling of insomnia's feelings about you. DEB was a complete mystery. If you're looking for no reasons whatsoever, you should be looking there. Then again, I'm already looking there, so whatever.

p-edit
I think it's called a gut-read. Or tone-read. Probably the former.

[Rautherdir]

Okay, I think I understand what you're saying insomnia, and I have no idea what to call that. Or how to explain it better. Maybe that it was a good scum opening? Or trying to bait a reaction? Not really sure.

(This is why I don't analyze RVS votes though. It's not easy to do, and honestly I don't think anyone actually knows how to do RVS so most everything tends to be NAI in the end. Usually.)

[Rautherdir]

I mean, apparently one of the hydras in here isn't even actually a hydra. So I don't even want to try and answer that question.

[Rautherdir]

@Mod:

V/LA until Saturday

low fever + sore throat is not fun.

Noted.
-Korina

[Rautherdir]

I'd guess that as a dead player Korina doesn't contribute to cult's wincon directly, or interfere with other faction's win conditions.

I'd also note that I probably should have assumed that DEB would vote Guilty. In the end I guess it's NAI for them.

[Rautherdir]

Umm, well that seemed unwise.

[Rautherdir]

im not going to offer any of my thoughts on anyone's alignments. i may be able to answer direct yes/no questions on the subject, but maybe not. we'll see.

gonna keep reading stuff and then proceed not to share any of my speculations on alignments.

So, this is just for day 1, right?

[Rautherdir]

im not going to offer any of my thoughts on anyone's alignments. i may be able to answer direct yes/no questions on the subject, but maybe not. we'll see.

gonna keep reading stuff and then proceed not to share any of my speculations on alignments.

So, this is just for day 1, right?

post restriction, though i got some clarification

i can share my alignment if you guys want, whatever good that will do

i can share either town or scum opinions, but i cannot share any specifics

i think i can answer yes/no questions directly on alignments if you ask me something specific

Ah, alright; thanks for clarifying.

[Rautherdir]

id feel better about my wagon had anyone brought up that post as a reason. it was a pretty baity post

I mean, I knew that but I felt like I wasn't seeing the full picture which is why I asked you about it. Also just something to help you engage and maybe help other people read you better.

[Rautherdir]

Hmm, I remember something like this from my last game. I seem to recall the person who benefited the most from it was scum. (And also me, but anyways.) I'm not playing along, and also just saying this probably isn't pro-town.

[Rautherdir]

Yeah, I never understood why you didn't, it was perfectly safe. And you were still the last survivor of our team somehow.

[Rautherdir]

Going to assume you quoted the wrong post there, though that would be a pretty funny PR wouldn't it.

[Rautherdir]

Oh, cool. I should probably look and see who I should vote anyways, not sure I appreciate either of the current options.

[Rautherdir]

Oh wow I'm actually about to seriously do this. VOTE: VaultDweller
You've been bouncing around a lot. And you're also not actually guaranteed town, despite being an innocent child, so... yeah.
I also think their read on Insomnia and Iconeum feels a bit too strongly like scum knowing (or having a much higher chance of knowing) that they are/were town.

[Rautherdir]

His statement about VaultDweller being town is not mod-confirmed; however, VaultDweller is an Innocent Child. Alignment not guaranteed.

Nope.

[Rautherdir]

Hmm, I remember something like this from my last game. I seem to recall the person who benefited the most from it was scum. (And also me, but anyways.) I'm not playing along, and also just saying this probably isn't pro-town.

what is not pro town? saying you are town?

Yes actually, that's neutral. Asking other people to claim town can have a variety of reasons, and the reason I did it in a previous game was to support a fake-claim. But I suppose that might not be the case here.

[Rautherdir]

No? VaultDweller hasn't done anything towny, and seems to be trying to drift by. That's why I'm voting VaultDweller. Trust me, I wouldn't vote an IC without reason. (My initial thought was that they were still likely to be town, though not guaranteed.)

[Rautherdir]

Well, it was that and I'm having a hard time finding anyone else to vote. I don't quite see the Gun/Rose argument, and don't really feel like joining in on Zeebu, that PR doesn't sound like it comes from scum. (I could probably be wrong there though.)

I'd also appreciate if Vault realized that being an IC means less then it normally does this game. It will make it easier for me to town-read them though.

[Rautherdir]

Well great. Now we have no idea how many scum are dead. That's annoying.

[Rautherdir]

Hey Titus. You're voting for no lynch

[Rautherdir]

Hey Titus. You're voting for no lynch

Karina is confirmed cult and alive again.

Korina is unlynchable. Thus, you're voting for no lynch.

[Rautherdir]

Well it wouldn't have mattered much anyways.

Gladiate: Chemist1422

VOTE: Chemist1422

[Rautherdir]

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You can still die to a strongman vengeful. Which I'm 99% sure is going to happen now.

@DreamingLich
Chemist self-voted. And if I used the gladiate on an unlynchable player it would instantly kill me. So now we'll know if they're unlynchable or not before actually lynching them.

[Rautherdir]

GUESS WHOSE ROLE PM SAYS MORE THAN LYNCHPROOF AND GUESS WHAT WE ROLLED LAST NIGHT

Strongman: Kills made by this player go through all forms of protection.
So unless you have a self-revive, or somehow manage to get me lynched instead of Chemist...

[Rautherdir]

Imagine being so bad at playing that you waste two day phases trying to lynch a town player

Yeah no. After

not declaring lynchproof

yesterday you're never town.

[Rautherdir]

I think you may have missed the bit where we’re literally unkillable lmao

-rose

I don't think you understand the part where nothing short of a self-revive can protect you from a strongman vengeful. (Commuter and Hider only work on night actions, and vengeful targets during twilight.)

[Rautherdir]

To expand on what Chemist said, their vengeful will trigger on either my or Chemist's lynch. And I believe if the day would end in a no-lynch I will be lynched instead, so... me and Chemist are dead now. And there will be a vengeful kill.

Our plan was to use it on AGAAR, but if they're going to die anyways then I guess we'll have to figure out who else to use it on.

[Rautherdir]

this gladiate sucks btw.

if we have a dayvig we should just get rid of it and day hunt and do the lynch

we're loosing numbers rapidly in a cult game

Chemist wanted to vengeful and I had a way of guaranteeing it would happen. Sorry. We didn't exactly know that AGAAR was good as dead already.

[Rautherdir]

Unflavored Event Details

Tonight, all players will receive a 1-Shot Invention from the Grand Idea Mafia thread. This ability can be used alongside all other ability(s) you may have,

and is not affected by your modifiers

, (should any exist.)

Ok I take what I said back I forgot the bolded part

I might have been redirected and this vig shot didn't get delayed.

But I know for sure it didn't got blocked.

fuck ...

In which case either AGAAR didn't die from it or Chemist survived it, depending on how my role actually works. Which means... back to plan A of strongman-vengeful-killing AGAAR tonight?

[Rautherdir]

Whoever I ended up possibly killing was also role blocked last night if that means anything

That was probably me? I targeted AGAAR with a roleblock last night. (Though that doesn't fit with the theory of my role actually being a transporter. Or maybe it does that in addition to my stated actions? Or maybe that was someone else entirely?)

p-edit
There is one way of surviving a strongman vengeful kill. And that is to be revived after dying from it. Or be a treestump, I guess. (But you have a vote, so no.)

p-edit 2
Do me and Chemist have a plan? No, because we'll be dead after this. Does the rest of town have a plan? Probably not.

[Rautherdir]

"that means if you redirected* stuff out of agaar"

I intended to roleblock AGAAR. The theory is that since I targeted both AGAAR and Chemist and a confirmed action that was supposed to hit AGAAR hit Chemist, my role is actually a transporter/deflector of some kind instead of what I was told it was. But if my roleblock still went through that might mean the transporter/deflector was just someone else who happened to hit the same targets that I did? Or maybe that it was an additional effect that occurs if I use both of my actions maybe?

Although since I hit Chemist with a rolestop then I guess it was a bus driver or similar, since otherwise you would have seen the rolestop as well. Or, you know, would have been blocked by it.

As for why I roleblocked AGAAR, it was because I was fairly certain they're scum. So of course I'll block them. Rolestopping Chemist was likewise because I think Chemist is town.

[Rautherdir]

I guess we can say that something weird happened last night, and we have no idea for sure what it was?

Did you see any other abilities being used on your target, actually? Or how does that work?

[Rautherdir]

(If you don't want to answer that feel free, I realize you're actually probably going to survive today whereas me and Chemist are not. And hopefully neither will AGAAR.)

[Rautherdir]

And hopefully neither will AGAAR.

lol

-gun

Just be glad you managed to take two townies down with you.
And also going to note that if zeebu's plan of loverizing the two of us had succeeded then you would have died alongside me on my death. And that is actually a literally unavoidable death, with no ability that can counteract it. And depending on how it works also prevent revival, though I'm not really sure how lovers actually interacts with revival. (If zeebu's plan had succeeded then I could have just gladiated you, and because I would immediately die upon gladiating an unlynchable player, you're unlynchable, and we were lovers, we would have both immediately died. Without using up a lynch, even.)

[Rautherdir]

I didnt taget agaar with anything else

the vigilant shot I used was also a role block - it was one action doing both - the invention I got from day 1 event

Oh. Nevermind everything I've been saying then.

What about a jury trial, does that resolution count as a lynch? Could we get rid of this pompous ass that way?

Not sure if the Jury can put people on trial while there's an active gladiate shot. But yes, it apparently does count as a lynch, so it probably wouldn't effect AGAAR.

[Rautherdir]

There is another possibility. Anyone who visited me night 1 was healed.

Rauth, can you redirect Gun and Rose onto me tonight?

Umm...

I'm kind of going to be dead by then.

[Rautherdir]

We could try no lynching I guess. But I'm pretty sure that still ends in me being lynched. Also, I don't even know how my ability actually works if it isn't what my role card says it is? My role is rolestopper/roleblocker. It doesn't mention being able to redirect players at all.

[Rautherdir]

Well it wouldn't have mattered much anyways.

Gladiate: Chemist1422

VOTE: Chemist1422

Was the Gladiator ability a part of your original role or is it GIM??

~JJD

It was the invention I received.

[Rautherdir]

Well great. Now we have no idea how many scum are dead. That's annoying.

Too LAMIST tbh

I don't care. I am practically guaranteed to die today.

[Rautherdir]

The result should be the same no matter what happens. Me and Chemist will die. Chemist's vengeful will trigger if either of us was lynched.

[Rautherdir]

Jackson what’s your role?

Why do I need to claim?

You're gladiated and I'm drunk.

Well, the second one is probably true.

Me and Jackson are Masons though. And literally confirmed not to be Mafia. The Fonz and Korina were/are also in our group.

[Rautherdir]

Oh how did I not target any of y'all with my free friendly neighbor shot

Probably a good thing you didn't hit Fonz. And you wouldn't have been able to target Korina as they were dead at the time. I'm also the subject of weird stuff so I probably wouldn't have been a good target.

[Rautherdir]

Can we lynch the Goose?

- Norwee

VOTE: Minstrel

I mean, no we can't lynch the Goose.
We also can't lynch Minstrel.

There are two valid players to vote right now: Me and Chemist. In either case both of us will die, and Chemist will get to use a vengeful shot.

[Rautherdir]

Caught up.

I received Role Cop as my invention last night. I RC'ed agaar. I received "Complex Strongman Vengeful 1-Shot Bulletproof 3-Shot Unversal Miller Jester" back for him. Make of that what you will

Also, a Role Cop only learns about the ROLE of the target, but not their Modifiers/number of shots.

It was a GIM role. Which probably could have that ability.
Also, a different effect that was supposed to hit AGAAR hit Chemist instead last night, so that probably happened for the role cop as well.

[Rautherdir]

Caught up.

I received Role Cop as my invention last night. I RC'ed agaar. I received "Complex Strongman Vengeful 1-Shot Bulletproof 3-Shot Unversal Miller Jester" back for him. Make of that what you will

Also, a Role Cop only learns about the ROLE of the target, but not their Modifiers/number of shots.

It was a GIM role. Which probably could have that ability.
Also, a different effect that was supposed to hit AGAAR hit Chemist instead last night, so that probably happened for the role cop as well.

Probably this.

How long does the "no flip" thing last? Because Chemist's flip would clarify a lot.

For the rest of the day. We're pretty sure we know what alignment AGAAR is and now we can probably assume what alignment Chemist is. And I somehow investigated as town by an informed insane (town and mafia results are switched) alignment cop while also being mod-confirmed in the mason thread as not being mafia, so... it's possible they are actually sane and that confirms me as town? I'm not actually sure how that works. Would be pretty funny for an informed insane cop to actually be sane though.

[Rautherdir]

Only if you have multiple actions. Well okay then, going to guess that's pointed at me.

[Rautherdir]

Essentially, there's at least 1 other Mafia who is

lynchproof and bulletproof

if any non-town vote them during the day, for that entire day/night cycle.
So yeah we're fucked.

Nope. I gladiated Chemist, who has strongman vengeful and is lovers with me. And the vengeful will trigger if a lover is lynched. And we already have a pretty good guess who that player is.

[Rautherdir]

Essentially, there's at least 1 other Mafia who is

lynchproof and bulletproof

if any non-town vote them during the day, for that entire day/night cycle.
So yeah we're fucked.

Nope. I gladiated Chemist, who has strongman vengeful and is lovers with me. And the vengeful will trigger if a lover is lynched. And we already have a pretty good guess who that player is.

It could also be that they

aren't

the Lynchproof mafia.

The way they've been acting? They straight up said they couldn't die.

[Rautherdir]

If you're confident aGaaR is scum even if he's town, chemist might be the needed vote.

If not, I have no idea but I'm leaning toward Rautherdir (since No Lynch will still be bad for us.)

-TL (same for the post before btw)

A: Chemist's vengeful still triggers if I'm lynched.
B: I'm under the impression a No Lynch results in my lynch because of the gladiate.

[Rautherdir]

Gun might be the mafia whom a non-town voted. If you are non-town who voted gun, please out immediately.

Chemist is highly likely to be a Jester, and they voted AGAAR, so...

[Rautherdir]

Gun might be the mafia whom a non-town voted. If you are non-town who voted gun, please out immediately.

Chemist is highly likely to be a Jester, and they voted AGAAR, so...

Butt, aren't you their lover?

Zeebu apparently tried to loverize me and AGAAR and ended up loverizing me and Chemist instead.
So yeah. I'm lovers with Chemist. And I gladiated him to force Chemist's vengeful to trigger today.

@Chemist: Well yeah, not today. And strongman would go through that anyways, so it wouldn't matter.

[Rautherdir]

No one voted AGAAR before I got the gladiate shot in, so the only thing you have to worry about is the vengeful being a lie.

[Rautherdir]

Can someone remind me how/when Minstrel got lynchproof

For today? The moment I gladiated Chemist.
Along with everyone else that isn't me or Chemist.

[Rautherdir]

I don't think anything useful is going to come out of the rest of this day tbh (and that includes the lynch and venge too, since it's basically flipless mafia for today).

I would suggest both chemist & rauth give us the details of their role PMs (since they're as good as dead already) + any useful info they may have. As soon as the venge shot is announced the venged player should also tell us everything they know, including the details of their role. (of course if they're scum they won't, so I'm mainly addressing the TOWN if that's whom it hits)

Alright. I had that info in my Last Will but might as well post it now.

I am a Strongwilled Multitasking Ninja Bulletproof Roleblocker Rolestopper

1-shot Gladiator

Mason

Lover

Townie. (Italics meaning it wasn't part of my original role card)

I blocked AGAAR night 1. I rolestopped Chemist night 1. I got a 1-shot Gladiator as an invention night 1. I became Lovers with Chemist night 1. I gladiated Chemist day 2.
I am masons (confirmed not mafia) with The Fonz, JacksonVirgo, and Korina (seriously)

Additionally, I was given extra information that at the start of the game The Fonz and JacksonVirgo had the same alignment, and that Korina was not of the same alignment as any other mason, but neither of those are mod-guaranteed to be true. I don't know if the other masons were given similar statements or not, I didn't reveal this to the other masons (other then hinting at it by saying I wouldn't put it past Korina to put town together in a masonry) and neither of them said they had similar statements either.

JacksonVirgo claims to have alignment copped me and got town, but also claims to be insane of the 'mafia and town results are switched' variant so... we're not really sure what happened there since we both also know I can't be mafia. (Korina mod-confirmed there can't be Mafia in the masonry in the mason thread)

Also, based on how actions have ended up resolving, it's quite possible the role I received was false, and I'm actually a deflector or bus driver of some sort. (zeebu tried to loverize me and AGAAR but I ended up being lovers with Chemist, someone else role copped AGAAR but the result matches up more with Chemist's claim.)

@zeebu: Yes, the no flipping continues to the end of the day. Me and Chemist will not be flipping after we're lynched. It's unknown if the Vengeful shot (AGAAR) will flip or not though. (That depends on if that shot resolves at the end of the day or at the start of the night)

[Rautherdir]

Also DEB, I gladiated Chemist to guarantee that their strongman vengeful happens today, so we could guarantee AGAAR's death.

[Rautherdir]

@Rauth: Thank you

No problem! I'm perfectly fine with taking two non-town down with me. Although it's more like handing the win to a Jester and taking out one of Mafia's possibly strongest assets. And I kind of prefer this to trying to figure out what my role actually is.

[Rautherdir]

@Rauth: Thank you

No problem! I'm perfectly fine with taking two non-town down with me. Although it's more like handing the win to a Jester and taking out one of Mafia's possibly strongest assets. And I kind of prefer this to trying to figure out what my role actually is.

Although Bulletproof Deflector would be absolutely overpowered combined with an Alignment cop, especially since we're Masons and can communicate privately*

* With Korina listening in. But otherwise privately.

[Rautherdir]

It's not as overpowered when you didn't even know (and still don't "know" although it looks like it).

Yeah, the alignment cop was told they were insane but apparently isn't as well.

[Rautherdir]

Well... there was information revealed in the dead thread that PeaHen was Mafia, and ObvScum was probably Mafia.

I would like to propose that we ask Korina "How many anti-town factions still have a player alive?"

[Rautherdir]

If we were to ask a repeat question and you gave us a false answer for each, would they be the same false answer?

I'm going to assume (at least) two things for the questions:
- Repeat questions would count as a vote for the original question.
- Questions with only one false answer will return a picture of a dog. (the questions will get two false answers and one true answer. A question with only one false answer would probably be deemed game-breaking as the only way to provide two false answers would be to repeat the false answer twice.)

[Rautherdir]

I'll note that there's a possibility AGAAR was Cult and not Mafia, given that the flag they had in their death flavor was a reference to the Cult of Dog, which is probably the cult flavor this game.

[Rautherdir]

Oh wait...

VOTE: VaultDweller
Day 1 when PeaHen pushed me for voting VaultDweller I wondered if PeaHen was scum defending an 'inno' partner. That's a lot more likely now that I know PeaHen was Mafia. (To be fair, it could also just be PeaHen trying to push an easy mislynch on me for voting an IC.)

[Rautherdir]

Also Dead Thread, I'm sorry but I kind of forgot what depth of information was supposed to be shared in the event one of us was revived (and I no longer have access to the dead thread, so I can't go and check). Specifically if the exact reason why we knew PeaHen and ObviousScum were Mafia could be shared to everyone. And maybe also other things that I can't even hint at without revealing.

[Rautherdir]

Also Dead Thread, I'm sorry but I kind of forgot what depth of information was supposed to be shared in the event one of us was revived (and I no longer have access to the dead thread, so I can't go and check). Specifically if the exact reason why we knew PeaHen and ObviousScum were Mafia could be shared to everyone. And maybe also other things that I can't even hint at without revealing.

I also realized that ObviousScum is Mafia, or at the very least had a factional ability to kill (unless Korina was a troll). You should be able to figure out why if you think about it a bit.

(Really wish I could communicate with the dead thread without resorting to posting in the main thread, but oh well.)

[Rautherdir]

A scum IC feels expected and trite in a bastard game

Doesn't that just result in WIFOM though?

But on another note, me and Jackson can probably do a Follow the Cop strategy now, with me protecting Jackson and Jackson checking players alignments.

[Rautherdir]

A scum IC feels expected and trite in a bastard game

Doesn't that just result in WIFOM though?

But on another note, me and Jackson can probably do a Follow the Cop strategy now, with me protecting Jackson and Jackson checking players alignments.

Good plan, but slight issue:

Cult Roleblockers
Mafia Roleblockers
3rd party Roleblockers
Jackson being a Naive Cop

We'll find out if Jackson is a Naive Cop today. (They checked Korina last night.)
Also, I'm strong-willed. If I'm a Deflector, I would end up just straight up preventing anything other than maybe a rolestopper on Jackson's target from blocking Jackson. If I'm a Bus Driver then the roleblocker would have to target whoever else I target, which I won't be revealing in the main thread beforehand.

@50 Judge Powers:
You'll have to ask whoever resurrected me. That wasn't an ability I, or anyone in the dead thread controlled.

[Rautherdir]

A scum IC feels expected and trite in a bastard game

Doesn't that just result in WIFOM though?

But on another note, me and Jackson can probably do a Follow the Cop strategy now, with me protecting Jackson and Jackson checking players alignments.

Good plan, but slight issue:

Cult Roleblockers
Mafia Roleblockers
3rd party Roleblockers
Jackson being a Naive Cop

We'll find out if Jackson is a Naive Cop today. (They checked Korina last night.)
Also, I'm strong-willed. If I'm a Deflector, I would end up just straight up preventing anything other than maybe a rolestopper on Jackson's target from blocking Jackson. If I'm a Bus Driver then the roleblocker would have to target whoever else I target, which I won't be revealing in the main thread beforehand.

@50 Judge Powers:
You'll have to ask whoever resurrected me. That wasn't an ability I, or anyone in the dead thread controlled.

You could also just be a CPR doctor

That doesn't explain what happened to the loverize and role cop night 1 though.

[Rautherdir]

To explain, I'm not a doctor, I won't be protecting Jackson using a heal.
I'm most likely either a Deflector (target two players, all actions targeting the first will target the second instead) or a Bus Driver (target two players, all actions targeting one of those players will target the other instead) as opposed to what my role card says I am (which was roleblocker/rolestopper)
Either way, I'd be protecting Jackson by redirecting abilities used on them (including kills or even a recruit) to another player. Although if I'm a Bus Driver it would be a bit less powerful as Jackson could still get affected by roles in that case, it would just be harder to specifically target him.

[Rautherdir]

Well, that's a bit awkward.

I'm going to go ahead and claim something now.

I got recruited to the Jury last night. Technically while I was dead, actually. ObviousScum is in there and we were having a conversation about the reasons ObviousScum is probably Mafia. Which I'm probably going to have to put back as probably Mafia because I realized that Korina, is, in fact, probably a troll in regards to that.
I'll say that Korina is also in there, and that I think most of the other members are town, or at the very least not overtly scum.

@Jake The Wolfie
I'm 100% sure it's on my role-card. I'm fairly certain it's true as well, as that would simplify NAR issues dealing with redirection and make Korina's life easier, which I fully expect Korina would do considering the scale of this game.

[Rautherdir]

Well, that's a bit awkward.

I'm going to go ahead and claim something now.

I got recruited to the Jury last night. Technically while I was dead, actually. ObviousScum is in there and we were having a conversation about the reasons ObviousScum is probably Mafia. Which I'm probably going to have to put back as probably Mafia because I realized that Korina, is, in fact, probably a troll in regards to that.
I'll say that Korina is also in there, and that I think most of the other members are town, or at the very least not overtly scum.

@Jake The Wolfie
I'm 100% sure it's on my role-card. I'm fairly certain it's true as well, as that would simplify NAR issues dealing with redirection and make Korina's life easier, which I fully expect Korina would do considering the scale of this game.

I'm just concerned about this plan that you have.

I mean, both me and Jackson are already claimed, and it's an extremely obvious strategy to take.

[Rautherdir]

Well, that's a bit awkward.

I'm going to go ahead and claim something now.

I got recruited to the Jury last night. Technically while I was dead, actually. ObviousScum is in there and we were having a conversation about the reasons ObviousScum is probably Mafia. Which I'm probably going to have to put back as probably Mafia because I realized that Korina, is, in fact, probably a troll in regards to that.
I'll say that Korina is also in there, and that I think most of the other members are town, or at the very least not overtly scum.

@Jake The Wolfie
I'm 100% sure it's on my role-card. I'm fairly certain it's true as well, as that would simplify NAR issues dealing with redirection and make Korina's life easier, which I fully expect Korina would do considering the scale of this game.

I'm just concerned about this plan that you have.

I mean, both me and Jackson are already claimed, and it's an extremely obvious strategy to take.

Unless of course either of yoiu are lying

It would become pretty obvious fairly quickly if that was the case. I think the way Jackson revealed their ability (trying to figure out why their result on me was what they understood to be a Mafia result when we knew I couldn't be Mafia), plus how they claimed to use it (starting with the other members of the masonry) lines up with a town Alignment cop's strategy as well.

[Rautherdir]

neat. rauth committed suicide after chem died but got resurrected. since rauth didn’t immediately commit suicide again I’m guessing the lover part is over.

Either that, or it only takes effect when one of us dies. So if Chemist gets revived and one of us dies, I'm guessing we would both die again.

[Rautherdir]

Well, I guess that confirms that you're Complex and Poly is Simple then.

[Rautherdir]

Hi all

So my results so far indicate that either both JacksonVirgo and poly were town during day 1 If my result is truthful

or both were scum and not town and lied if my result has a lie

That would tie into my role info that Jackson and Fonz were the same alignment at the start of the game. Plus since Jackson is a mason and can't be mafia that might mean Poly can't be mafia as well depending on how your ability works? Is it that both were the same alignment or that both were town (is the distinction polarity, or both town/not town, or both anti-town/not anti-town)?

[Rautherdir]

The difference between town/not town and anti-town/not anti-town is that Lyncher, Jester, Unjester, and Neutral Survivor are both not town and not anti-town

[Rautherdir]

Well, no matter what happens, at least one person not in the cult will have won the game. We can all remember that. Also, if we did actually eliminate all the non-cult scum and don't have a vig then we might have a small problem with no longer being able to kill Korina.

[Rautherdir]

Although there probably is another scum faction in addition to Cult and Mafia. I mean, all of the following are possible: Werewolves, Aliens, Pirates, and Serial Killers.

[Rautherdir]

I know either both their posts about being town is true or both are false

Oh right, the lie detect thing. So, they're both actually town or they're both something else if that ability lies. Poly might be benign if not town, but if Jackson isn't town then Fonz is probably the same alignment, and thus both less likely to be benign. Though honestly two co-aligned scum in a masonry together is also pretty unlikely. But Korina is a troll so I probably shouldn't be putting much weight into things being likely or not.

I mean, the best way to test your ability would be to have someone you check get flipped. Or to check Korina if Korina ever made a post you could actually check.
OR... To check one of Amrun's posts if they made an 'I am town' post. But testing someone and then lynching them might be better. We'd just need a person or group to lynch within tomorrow.

p-edit
I'd imagine a Lie Detect would go through Investigation immunity, since it's targeting a post you made and not you.

[Rautherdir]

OR... To check one of Amrun's posts if they made an 'I am town' post.

Insomnia. You would be checking one of Insomnia's posts, not one of Amrun's.
On another note, Korina made several posts you could check, so that's an option.

[Rautherdir]

And that part is confirmed for reasons I wont specify

I was confused yesterday and assumed it also affected my vig but my invention vig prize was not using my own modifiers.

Not even sure if it was AGAAR or Chemist that ended up getting hit by that vig, both of them had bulletproof. (Would be nice if I did know, then I'd know if I'm a deflector or bus driver)

[Rautherdir]

Wait no, never mind. I'd need an action on Chemist to know if I was deflector or bus driver.

[Rautherdir]

Also people get resurrected so how the f is this game even supposed to end?

- Norwee

Assuming there are night kills, we'd still trend towards losing players. Though we went straight from 4 night kills night 1 to no kills night 2, so... not sure what happened there.

[Rautherdir]

this game is pretty confusing. why is everyone voting vault? just curious

It's because of a possible association with PeaHen, who was Mafia. (see 2358 and 2362)

[Rautherdir]

Sure, I'll whisper them a summary of the game starting from the middle of day 2, since they asked me for one for some reason.

[Rautherdir]

I've purposefully avoided the mod pt so as to not taint my judgment for the associate I'm playing for (one of the caveats of my existence therein is that I don't give my associate too much game-related information from my obviously pointed view). I'm simply going off of the information given from flips. Doesn't really seem like too many of those come from an anti-town sort of win condition is all.

To be fair, 3 of those flips were completely janitored, and the rest were partially janitored by an event. 2 of the completely janitored flips (ObviousScum and PeaHen) were revealed in the Dead thread to be Mafia.

And I'm pretty sure by this point I was supposed to reveal what those flips were. So here we go:

Obvscum: 3 shot strongman strong-willed reflexive mafia blackmailer jurist.
PeaHen: Potentially Drunk Multitasking Post Restricted Indecisive Ninja 3-shot janitorial roleblocker (no mafia in the role name but the pm was in red and it states outright that they were mafia aligned).

[Rautherdir]

I have just proposed that we put dreaminglich in trial, but I am afraid the Jury may have too many non-town players by now it may backfire. I am not exposing the other Jurists, so you only know I, Korina & ObvScum are members, and this point I am only confident of 2 others (other than myself) that are Town today.

So, here's the plan:

We lynch dreaminglich here and keep the Jury trial option as a last resort. NO TOWN JURIST should actually cote for the initiation of the trial of dreaminglich just yet.

If the lynch is successful here, that's all cool and dandy. If not, then -and only then- do we take the risk of initiating the trial (we do know Korina AND ObvScum are NOT town-aligned, and I can guarantee myself and 2 others are town today, which leaves the other 2 as "unknowns" for me).

I mean, I already revealed myself as a Jurist, in response to Korina responding to a conversation I was having in the Jurist thread in the main thread.

I also kind of do have to agree with DreamingLich that we should probably talk about the questions before lynching someone. Having said that, I'm not as sure we should use all the questions today, the events haven't been strictly to town's benefit so I'm not sure it would help us to get another one tomorrow.

[Rautherdir]

Wow, certain members of the jury are impatient. Trial on DreamingLich got put through. I'd like to stress that we probably want to vote on questions or at least get a few more suggestions before closing out the day, these questions are going to get a true answer (alongside two false answers, but still) so it would be exceptionally helpful if used.

[Rautherdir]

I'm not even sure what to make of this sudden onset of what I presume to be town apathy. I mean, what even caused it?

I mean, even apart from discussing who to lynch (and in this situation our feelings on DreamingLich's being guilty or not), we can talk about questions to ask the moderator. Unless most everyone feels the questions aren't very important, in which case I'd love to know why you think that?

[Rautherdir]

I don't remember anyone whispering to Korina day 1? I know Minstrel tried early on, but it got rejected due to not having a recipient specified. I remember that Korina whispered to players on day 1 though.

Also, pretty sure you could resolve that question by, well, attempting to whisper to chklist.

[Rautherdir]

It took Korina 72 hours to resolve the whisper to chemist, so you think I should wait another 72 hours to find out?

Fair point.

[Rautherdir]

So, are we going to have any meaningful discussion on how we should vote here, or should we skip ahead to a Guilty/Not Guilty ruling?

[Rautherdir]

I'm interested in why the judges forced a trial, possibly trying to protect vault

50 proposed the trial for reasons he provided in here, and then the game stalled so I guess people in the jury voted for the trial because of that. Although Korina voted with a reason that 'DreamingLich isn't cult' as far as I can tell.

I'm not sure I like DreamingLich's response to the trial though. I mean, they should know how the trial works already since we went through this on day 1.

[Rautherdir]

oh yeah nice summary rauth.

You wouldn't believe how much trouble I had fitting a summary into 750 characters. There were a few other things I wanted to fit in there but I ran out of room, so... (all that stuff was in the main thread already anyways, and dealt with important claims that had happened, and the reason for my vote; which are things that can be looked up manually without really needing a summary)

[Rautherdir]

dreaminglich is fake tbh

they'd have seen me visit someone since I universal millerized night 1 tbh

So, that depends on something. It depends on if I'm actually a Deflector or if I'm actually a Bus Driver. If I'm the former, then yeah. If I'm the later, then AGAAR would have been the actual target of this action.

[Rautherdir]

AGAAR also flipped Ninja, so that result makes sense.

[Rautherdir]

I'm more willing to bet on "chemist was roleblocked" than "I was redirected".

But yeah, a Ninja should generate a tracker inno... If not I'm either insane or paranoid.

-TL

We already know that actions on AGAAR were redirected to Chemist, that I attempted to target both players, and that the actions I submitted don't appear to have actually happened. That implies my role was false and that I'm either a Deflector or a Bus Driver.

[Rautherdir]

Activating a shot of a passive ability also can't normally be roleblocked if I'm correct?

[Rautherdir]

Well then, would you care to out your targets and results?

Night 1:

No Result on zeebu

Tracker Inno on Chemist1422 (did not see anything)

Night 2:

No Result on polypies73

No Result (again) on Jake the Wolfie

I feel like I should point out that I am loud, announcing, and complicated (can't target simple or vanilla, but is untargetable to them).

-TL

So poly visited noone?

They claimed neighborizer so this makes no sense

Poly was simple and couldn't be visited by a complex player. No result != No visit.

[Rautherdir]

Complex/Complicated: Can't target or be targeted by simple players
Simple: Can't target or be targeted by Complex/Complicated players.

[Rautherdir]

To be fair, we don't know for sure that DreamingLich is Complicated. We do know that Poly is Simple though.

[Rautherdir]

We're voting on whether or not DreamingLich is scum or not. 50 brought it up with reasons found in post 2487
DreamingLich claimed in post 2545

If you're asking me what I think about DreamingLich? I'm not sure at the moment. However, I could see Lich being town that hit AGAAR, who then told their team-mates who they got hit by. ObviousScum then could have voted to put DreamingLich into the Jury as a gambit, or to maybe try and control where Lich was sent afterwards.

On the other hand, Lich could just be lying.

[Rautherdir]

Poly claimed to have gotten it from Amrun's role when taking Amrun's abilities.
It was evidenced when JacksonVirgo (who has claimed Complicated) was unable to target Poly with their ability.

[Rautherdir]

Completely misread that post. Poly didn't know they were simple until after Jackson claimed no result on Poly, which was earlier today.

[Rautherdir]

I'm actually abstaining right now as well, I had been voting Guilty before the claim.

The thing is, scum would have to guess either what ability I have (Something I don't even know at the moment), or that Chemist would have returned an Inno to make that claim. I'm not sure if scum would make a claim like that under normal circumstances. But that just makes it a high-risk gambit, and with everything going on before the trial a gambit like that would probably be needed, especially if Lich is the last member of a faction.

[Rautherdir]

On the other hand, Poly claimed that Mafia didn't visit anyone last night. Meaning either that Simple affects the Spy ability and the remaining Mafia members are Complex, or that Mafia didn't successfully visit anyone last night. Which lines up with Lich's claimed actions if they're Mafia.

[Rautherdir]

AGAAR also flipped Ninja, so that result makes sense.

How do we know it's true though?

We don't.

[Rautherdir]

Completely misread that post. Poly didn't know they were simple until after Jackson claimed no result on Poly, which was earlier today.

well actually no, I was just dumb and didn't

realise

I was simple until I properly read Amrun's rc.

Even disregarding the complex/simple issue, why would your track a neighbouriser? Like wether I'm scum or town neighbouriser I'm gonna claim to visit the person I neighbourised.

though otherwise the claim is intersting and does seem more townsided meh.

I'm not as sure that the targets imply that after thinking about it. Why target Chemist, for instance? They were fairly town-read at the time from what I could tell.

[Rautherdir]

Jake The Wolfie is literally the only target that makes sense to me. And that could be explained as hunting for another scum team.

[Rautherdir]

I also targeted people last night. (JacksonVirgo and DEB. Anyone that targeted one should now be informed that they probably hit the other.)

... So was Korina a vig kill, or what? Poly, did you see anything last night from the Mafia?

Oh yeah. The Jury decided to try out an ability we have to force a trial (Limited uses. At least 2 uses left, but less than 5). Specifically we were wondering if forcing the trial would still reveal votes or not. Turns out it doesn't, which is more then a little disappointing, for me at least. I personally won't advocate for using it again except to force an abdicate resolution if we need to.

[Rautherdir]

No, I know who a scum is. Although, I do feel it’s kinda unfair towards them, but just know mystery person, I tried to cult you.
And I know you’re scum.

Oh, so you died because you targeted non-town and have the 'weak' modifier.

Wait, so if I switched your recruit target with a cult player, would that kill you?

[Rautherdir]

I didn't get a night result wot

On who?

[Rautherdir]

Oh wait, nevermind. That's odd, but not sure I would put very much into that considering how many people seem to have certain modifiers.

p-edit
Or maybe there's another explanation.

[Rautherdir]

That is... 14 modifiers too many. I'm not gonna understand anything mechanics related this game, am I?

Titus, Rau, and Misty; could you each give me your top scumread and I'll go ISO them.

-Hectic

I'm getting very worried about there possibly being no Mafia left, and thus looking for the wrong team. Not sure I want to commit to hunting cult yet though, or how much stock I should put into Korina's statement earlier today. Maybe we could vote my question on how many anti-town factions are remaining through? That might help narrow this down.

[Rautherdir]

FrozenAngel confirmed both Jackson and Poly. Jackson is waiting for a result on (Someone, realized it isn't mentioned in the public thread yet.), depending on what exactly happened last night with Jackson's cop.
Not sure who else is confirmed yet, actually? The major problem with people being cleared is that there's a cult, though if Korina is to be believed they failed to recruit last night. (Due to Korina hitting scum.) If Korina is to be believed (of if that info was mod-confirmed, don't remember if it is or not.), they also failed to recruit anyone on night 1, since Korina used a dayvig on day 1 and only one of the dayvig/recruit can be used in a day/night cycle.

p-edit
No. Unless Iconeum was third party.

[Rautherdir]

Oh yeah. The Jury decided to try out an ability we have to force a trial (Limited uses. At least 2 uses left, but less than 5). Specifically we were wondering if forcing the trial would still reveal votes or not. Turns out it doesn't, which is more then a little disappointing, for me at least. I personally won't advocate for using it again except to force an abdicate resolution if we need to.

so who was the driving force behind that? not everyone could have came up with the idea at once.

50 suggested doing it, about the same time he pushed Lich in the main thread.

As for revealing the rest of the Jury members, I'm still fine with letting them decide if they want to out or not. Not sure if I mentioned though, but we did bring Chemist into the Jury.

[Rautherdir]

VOTE: VaultDweller

I'm going back to this, for the same reason I brought up day three.

[Rautherdir]

but we did bring Chemist into the Jury.

Sp. chemist is outed too. @FA

I mean, it was a decently obvious choice, so I didn't see any reason not to out it.

Also, are we literally just not doing the questions?

[Rautherdir]

On the rolecop, remember don't do it tonight. My role pm says I reflexively kill all people who visit me on even nights.

So, only do it if you're bulletproof? Got it. (I mean, I don't actually know if I'm bulletproof for sure or not, and swapping you with someone would probably be an anti-town move in most cases anyways, so I probably won't be targeting you tonight.)

p-edit:
Nope. Chemist has already won, and as such can't be culted. It would also be an extremely poor move to recruit someone that's dead (like they did with me) as a cult, as that doesn't help the cult's win condition. I mean, if the Jury had the ability to revive people at the same time; sure, but they don't.

[Rautherdir]

Oh shit, one year on site, look at that.

happy scumday tbh

I would also like to say Happy Scumday.

Also, as an addition to my previous post, one of the Jury members (ObviousScum) is highly likely to be Mafia, which wouldn't be possible if the Jury was the cult.

[Rautherdir]

It was mod-confirmed in the Jurist thread that players who have achieved a win condition cannot be recruited into the cult.

p-edit
Well, I'm hunting for Mafia right now, which at the moment is chasing down an associative made between VaultDweller and PeaHen. (PeaHen strongly defended VaultDweller after I voted Vault on day 1.)
I do kind of suspect ceejay and Jake, but those are more lurker reads then anything else.

[Rautherdir]

It'll still narrow down how much work we have to do. (It gives us a minimum number of scum players left alive.)

We could also ask how many town are currently alive. Which should get accepted, but even if it isn't I'm not really seeing any other questions currently proposed. (This would give us a maximum number of scum players left alive.)

[Rautherdir]

is there any chance that jury duty could equate to being cult?

Oh. There's also a Jurist Role in the sample VT roles. (Since that's mod-confirmed to be true, that should guarantee that the Jurist ability functions as described in that sample role, if I'm not mistaken; and also confirm that the Jurist ability doesn't interfere with a town win condition, as all win conditions are guaranteed to be truthful. Which was confirmed in the Masons thread during day 1 after I wondered if the masonry was secretly the cult.)

[Rautherdir]

@Raith: Did you receive my whisper to you from the previous day at all? After I brought that up in the Jury PT; Korina appears to have read it, but I can't find any verification it was delivered in this thread (or maybe I missed it??)

Ig you didn't receive it, I will send you a new one, and will also send one to FA to see if my whispers are somehow blocked or something!

I have not received a whisper from you.

[Rautherdir]

well i mean i know who they visited and are weary that person is soem neutral or something.

do you know who korina visited?

It's Amrun's role, which only enables seeing who Mafia visit.

[Rautherdir]

Poly has Amrun's ability, meaning Poly gets to see who Mafia visited at night.

[Rautherdir]

What if the mafia part is a lie and it says who cult visited? I'd be very surprised if mafia visited 50JP given the lack of a nightkill.

That's something we're going to have to figure out. Poly did get no visit from it on night 2 though, which also had no night-kill, and presumably a successful recruit. Mafia might also have non-kill abilities, and since multitasking is a thing they would have to choose between using their personal abilities and using their night-kill. (Unless they had multitasking, of course.)

[Rautherdir]

i think the point i was trying to make was that sitting on the information when you plan to reveal it later is fine, but saying you want to sit on it because you want to see what people will say is laughable. there hasnt been much in the way of discussion during the daytimes. maybe im just impatient for some sort of discussion

k thanks for the town post gj.


anyway mafia visited 50 JP boop bop beep

are you sure you're tracking mafia?

cause I visited 50 JP

what did you see the other days?

Follow up question for Frozen Angel: was your visit due to a heal on 50JP? Cause that would also explain the no-kill.

[Rautherdir]

nope

I investigated if they have a chat or not and it returned true

they claimed that they are in jury chat today so it seems my results are not a lie and are true.

Ah, right. Forgot you mentioned that.

I mean, I could see the ability returning who a random person visited as of who a particular faction visited, or maybe 50 was just popular last night. If that ability is true, then anyone who has claimed to use an ability on a person could be checked against that list to see if they aren't mafia. Which seems pretty powerful.

[Rautherdir]

Oh wait...

VOTE: VaultDweller
Day 1 when PeaHen pushed me for voting VaultDweller I wondered if PeaHen was scum defending an 'inno' partner. That's a lot more likely now that I know PeaHen was Mafia. (To be fair, it could also just be PeaHen trying to push an easy mislynch on me for voting an IC.)

Here you go Jake. If you have a better idea for who to lynch then just let everyone know and make a case.

[Rautherdir]

Then they would most likely be town, in which we'd have spent the last two lynches chasing associations and should probably switch scum-hunting strategies. If they're neither Mafia or Town... then I'm not sure what I'll think? Depends on the flip I guess.

[Rautherdir]

This game died. chk wins gg.

I mean, this was after a weekend, and multiple people have less availability during weekends. Including Korina.

This game died. chk wins gg.

Actually, our secret wincon was to get someone to declare the game died, so we just won.

-Hectic

I would think that part of the goal of a secret wincon would be to keep it a secret.