Open 774 || Purgatory — Game Over

[Ame]

I also get the sensation from Dannflor's vote counts.

[Ame]

I've been thinking over something that's sort of game breaky

More later when I'm on a computer

[popsofctown]

I like your familiar avi

I have this weird thing where I experience pleasure inside my eyeballs from beautiful imagery similar to the sensation that people feel during sexual stimulation. The artwork from this anime, especially of the protagonist, is some of the most beautiful imagery I've laid eyes upon, and watching it is like a constant eyegasm.

I also get the sensation from Dannflor's vote counts.

Please activate your active skill to purify what you've done to this thread

[Ame]

It's been a long time since I've had deep belly laughter like that xD

[Something_Smart]

pops do you know of the term synchronicity and do you experience it often? (non-game related)

Of course, I love the Police!

[Something_Smart]

1082 guts me as a scummy post.

Stop being wrong popsofcscum :X

If it were just a snarky throwaway comment then yes I see how it might look scummy. But it's a genuine point. You guys are spending a bunch of time and effort trying to calculate probabilities for... what? To prove we should be trying to heaven town and not scum?

[Something_Smart]

I'd guess right now its pops with two of looker/elmo/SS looking to town up just enough to win a judgment day, with Amrun and us being the sacrificial hell lambs to get there

Explain EoD yesterday with S_S-scum and Amrun-town. Wooper had me as a hard townread, why would I let him die?

[Team STRQ]

Explain EoD yesterday with S_S-scum and Amrun-town. Wooper had me as a hard townread, why would I let him die?

Since you had no progression on Amrun scum then hammering her over him would have been weird

In today's episode of "why would scum let town die? Hard questions"

That being said I still am more skeptical of you just refusing to commit to everything or make a decision, deliberately staying off both wagons and pushing the clock was kinda scummy even if I've otherwise liked your tone personally

-Q

[Something_Smart]

I mean I could easily have justified it by saying wooper was towny in his final moments, which he was.

[Something_Smart]

That being said I still am more skeptical of you just refusing to commit to everything or make a decision, deliberately staying off both wagons and pushing the clock was kinda scummy

That's what I do when I don't like the wagons though...

[Something_Smart]

Like what should I have done in that situation? Try to push through a different option, and when that fails, bite the bullet and make a final decision between the two main wagons?

... because I did that. But because it was plurality, I didn't have to vote to implement that decision, and cutting the day short when so much was going on would be terrible.

[popsofctown]

The probabilities show whether generating information with the heavening is worthwhile, after Wooper heavily endorsed the notion.

More importantly it's pretty costless? I don't think implosion and I have put up impenetrable walls on the topic. Nothing stopping you from doing other stuff, we're very much doing it in addition to sorting rather than instead-of.

[Something_Smart]

I guess if it doesn't impact the amount of time you'd otherwise devote to the game there's nothing wrong with it, but I would have assumed that it would.

But the thing about information heavening is that its utility is 100% in the fact that people's reads will change depending on the flip, and I doubt your simulation takes that into account. So the simulation can't really tell you anything about whether it's a good idea.

[popsofctown]

S_S you realize my sim + my platform is that my sim gave much closer values for heavening scum and town and I think it's in stone's throw distance where info lynching can be a good idea?
Implo got crazy values that were so dramatic they suggested no amount of information could be worth it.

[implosion]

I just barely have anything else to say right now :\

[Amrun]

Looker has broken his town meta stylistically based on the accounts of two independent parties, and is working based on a townblock virtually everyone considers mostly town, with variance on which nodes they wouldn't count green.

Ame has been effusing difficult-to-fake content and promising more and

even if somehow scum would be the scum you'd prefer to lynch last, based on a qualitatively bad previous stance being necessary for her to even merit being in contention, as implosion laid out earlier

.

Can you explain these statements a little more? What do you mean Looker has broken his town meta? I was understanding it as the opposite?


For Ame, can you rephrase the bolder? I’m having trouble parsing it.

[Amrun]

it was a lovers game hosted by Amrun or something like that, I have to run like... NOW so I can't go find the game atm

but he was town that game

-Summer

Fusion Mafia if that’s helpful. It was me.

[Amrun]

Well I’m caught up.

If we are doing Towniest slot, I still like s_s for it. I still think someone like Ame who, if scum, would shift the game solve a lot, but is probably town is better.

[popsofctown]

Looker has broken his town meta stylistically based on the accounts of two independent parties, and is working based on a townblock virtually everyone considers mostly town, with variance on which nodes they wouldn't count green.

Ame has been effusing difficult-to-fake content and promising more and

even if somehow scum would be the scum you'd prefer to lynch last, based on a qualitatively bad previous stance being necessary for her to even merit being in contention, as implosion laid out earlier

.

Can you explain these statements a little more? What do you mean Looker has broken his town meta? I was understanding it as the opposite?


For Ame, can you rephrase the bolder? I’m having trouble parsing it.

I accidentally a word, Looker has broken his scum meta. I just inverted the words scum and town and/or messed up double negatives.

Ame's individual play is so strong there needs to be an ugly associative that pops up for us to even consider lynching him. Like we heaven Looker and he flips scum after she towncased Looker. It's an additive/subtractive thing
pedit: will you wagon Ame with me Amrun? VOTE: Ame

[Looker]

Right now this game has no clear cut for heaven on that play.
No one wants to go

Implo wants to go

I've been thinking over something that's sort of game breaky

More later when I'm on a computer

I'm super excited.

I just barely have anything else to say right now :\

When will you be returning a vote to the thread and on whom will it be placed?

---

VOTE: Ame

[implosion]

I'm happy to go and am also happy for Ame to go if Ame is happy to go.

[implosion]

I'm just waiting for Ame to wrap up whatever they want to do.

[Ame]

Yes, I'm fine with going. I just want to make sure these things are accounted for:
-Elmo provides reasoning for her reads.
-Tai and Summer explain their S_S read in detail.
-Summer provides details on the contradictory meta evidence against Looker.
-Q fleshes out his thought process behind his wooper read at the EoD.

Please don't let any of these things go unanswered

I had a behemoth in the works, but I'll condense it to the main points that I think are worthwhile:

Implo

|

Looker

>

pops

>

S_S

::

Amrun

,

Elmo

,

STRQ

STRQ

The summer head has a super townie tone to me. Most recently, this really doesn't give me the impression of someone who will flip red. She flat out ignored my question and continued posting despite the fact that she just said she was leaving. And the post itself seems like coming from someone who is more concerned with solving than how they look. That being said, the Q head is scummy to me. I've tried getting behind the townQ mindset regarding his wooper vote and push and it just doesn't make sense to me at all. And the fact that he's avoided dialoguing with me this entire phase makes me feel like he's cowering. wooper and (pops?) mentioned that summer is a really good wolfer, so I think it's apt to go with the Q read over the summer read.

Elmo

There were two posts, really, that I was town reading Elmo for, but they are tied to STRQ and Amrun. If Either or both of them are scum, then the points are invalid and Elmo's scum equity goes up dramatically.

STRQ Post:

It is always someone else's fault you're getting scum read. I also tend to rely on town reads from two of the scummiest players in the game to defend me.

I'm not defending you. Honestly I'd rather you sent to hell.
But your obv town.

Why call your reads out? To what create more fluff? You consider me scum your vote is on me correct?
And I'm not blaming anyone for thinking I'm scum. At this point I'd rather have the votes on me to show town can do something.

I initially took this as Too Wolfy to be Wolf. I don't think scum would overt about something so anti-town (wanting to hell a town read). However, this reads differently if STRQ is scum as it gives buddyElmo a way to distance their partner without actually

pushing

them and while keeping them in a town light. This is further indicated by the fact that Elmo specifically pushed for them to be helled rather than heavened. The natural flow of reasoning for someone who is annoyed with a slot but felt they were town would be to heaven them. The fact that Elmo bypassed this conclusion leads me to suspect that she was deliberately attempting to avoid making an association. Additionally, Elmo's expression of her hydra hate has been excessive. This again feels like a distancing tactic, a way to call her buddy scum without actually having to push them on scummy behavior.

Amrun Post:

Thing is I don't see that vote as a not doing something vote more just to turn the heat up on the game a little. I wish more were here for the moment but I don't think we're going to get that.

Right now the hydra confuses me but my read on them tells me that we're fine at this moment and justification. If anything I wish there were a few more chiming in.

what exactly do you like from the hydra and why do you find like all of implo/pops/amrun for example less remarkable at this point

There are some reads I enjoy from the hydra but more heads more confusion. I've never been a fan of hydras and more cooks in the kitchen just throw me off.

I have my reads on the 3 of them and I'm 100% sure there is a 33% chance of one being scum and my gut says it's not implosion. But pops not saying much didn't help me get a gut read.

VOTE: Amrun.
Why you gotta be scum in my games?

this read turnaround gave me mild whiplash but Amrun is
1) under the radar, unwagoned
2) not an easy target
3) actually indeed scummy in a fairly lowkey way

This was the most convincing (and only convincing) point of wooper's town case. However, I think it's also invalid if Amrun flips red. I don't think it's the type of action townElmo would take against xAmrun, but I do think it's feasible buddy interaction, especially if they felt that Elmo's defense of the early pressure on Amrun was something that needed to be rectified.

Amrun

Amrun I'm really still just reading off PoE and hivemind. And the fact that she fits nicely with my proposed team. She hasn't really done anything scummy and I haven't really been able to find any deviations in her meta (Her and S_S maintain their same style across every game!). I do like the fact that she has been pushing for me to be heavened despite the fact that I was pushing for her wagon yesterday. Again, this indicates a lack of self-preservation. Additionally, I feel that the way STRQ acted around her wagon was non-buddy indicative. But I don't think either of these are strong enough to push her over the line. If I am wrong on Amrun though, it's probably S_S.

S_S

I think S_S is someone who is very cognizant of his playstyle. His play is the same in all four games I looked through (two scum, two town) and in all three Guns & Roses he even made the same opening. One thing that I think is town indicative is the fact that he is been scum read throughout the game for lack of engagement, yet he hasn't really made any effort to increase it. I also like how quickly he was able to provide his reasoning during our dialogue earlier. I don't think these points are particularly strong though and I may just be trying to fit him into my solve. I also started on this for fun, but I think it may actually turn out to be indicative!

(GRI Top) 57 / 393 =

0.14

(GRII 6th) 36 / 696 =

0.05

(GRIII 5th) 171 / 1363 =

0.12

(Timeshift TH 8th) 30 / 572 =

0.052

(Here 4th) 101 / 858 =

0.11

The green are town games, red scum, white this game. The last number is the proportion of his posts relative to others during the D1 phase. His activity in both his scum games was less than half of his activity in his town games! Looking at his metrics here, they currently stand in his favor. I want more data though and will continue looking through games in heaven. I've been excluding the ones that he replaced into, but those have so far been the majority...

pops

I feel like pop's tone has been different from

Micro 910

. In that game it felt like she was in the driver's seat. She led a lot of the scumhunting, mech talk, and actively campaigned for/against a lynch near the end of D1. Here, I haven't felt that degree of drive, particularly regarding her wooper push which felt more like she was just sitting on it. At one point, she had wooper and S_S as scum, but ended up reading S_S as null after dialogue. After this, however, she switched to Amrun (who she had a weak read on) until Amrun invited her to switch over. Her reasoning was that there was ~36 hours until deadline, but with plurality I feel that was enough time to pursue her wooper read (which she had indicated feeling strongly about [1]). I think the best way to articulate the difference is that here it's more like pops have just been

suggestive

in terms of the directions we take, whereas in Autobattler it felt like she was asserting the direction town should take. Note: STRQ was leading wagon at the time pop's Amrun vote. If Am town & STRQ scum, then

potentially indicative

. Note 2: Initially I felt pops was lacking in analysis compared to her town games, but it has recently picked up.

However, I'm not sure the tonal difference between the two is really a reliable indicator. Her tone was also different in

Guns and Roses II

. And I think there's a stronger indicator here. Early on in the game she seemd to be playing townie police, making statements against early game solves and mech talk [1]. This is in direct opposition to her attitude exhibited in

Micro 910

where she led mech talk, and in opposition to her play here [1][2].

The important thing about this is that it indicates that pop's scum style is geared towards being

the good townie

, even if it is against her disposition. I think this contradicts her play here, particularly the fact that she has overtly defended me multiple times. If scumpops feels naked and fears being seen (the motivation behind playing the good townie), I don't think she is likely to play in this manner, especially because I called her out on it and she continued to do it [#963][#993]. This from Micro 910 (along with her other posts surrounding Eve) also suggests that it is non-scum indicative, and likely town indicative. One other thing about her play in G&RII is that her content dropped significantly as the game went on and her fluff ratio was very high. Here, her content has been fairly consistent and she's been more analytic today.

Looker

Implo

My super-secret tell turned out to be a dud, but I think he's town anyway. His read reversal on me along with its justification reads really genuine. And his evaluation of the two heaven strategies also reads town motivated. I found 1051 and 1052 convincing. Heavining town providing us with two routes to 2x shots at scum isn't something I had considered.

[Ame]

It turned out being a behemoth anyway. Aaaand I totally forgot I have a paper due lmao.

Anyway, that's all I got. Please make sure my questions are answered or I'll be sad.

VOTE: Ame

[Something_Smart]

If I am wrong on Amrun though, it's probably S_S.

I feel like I've been over this before...

Did you see my reasoning for why Amrun town makes me town as well? Do you have any issues with it?