Newbie 1990 | Game Over

[Weiss Schnee]

Yeah he's also kinda null, I think at the time given I was talking to someone else who was trying to figure out how votes work so his self-vote was like... idk, not as concerning, but we do need more readable content from him for him to not become the default day 1. PoE is starting to narrow

I think rg and lmh are town
Natsu is town off being silly but that's not a great reason (gimmick self-imposed post restrictions more often come from town) but it's good enough for right now

trq might be town when I get a clearer sense of their playstyle
JV's push on Maple feels ~maybe townie but this is a bit weaker, null/town at the moment

OldMapleNostalgia -- not a lot of AI content yet, 88 was an ok question but not a strong townlean yet I guess

Rectiplanes -- 91 felt kinda townie but I dislike the arguments irt rg in the wall

RoboApocalypze -- I guess this is bottom of my poe right now but I'm not really confident in it flipping scum, just nothing townie so far

I guess I'd like to talk to TRQ a bit more and I'd like to see Robo do more AI stuff before I decide whether he's actually worth pushing or not

I feel like we probably have a moderately townie town this game?

[Natsu]

RG

...

You have been acting very clumsy and noobish in-thread, as if you don't understand a thing about the game. However, there are two things that make me suspect this is a sham. First, you must have been practically camping the game start, because I had been checking here and there in spare minutes at work ever since I confirmed receiving the role PM. I got in the thread pretty quickly - sixteen minutes after Karnage opened the game - and you beat me here. That speaks to a considerable interest in the game... but you basically blunder around like you've never seen one of these games before, which is hard to reconcile with that level of interest. I read through other games for a while before signing up, and I knew to have an avatar, basics of gameplay, etc. from just doing that. In addition, you're gamer enough to not only know what "Juggernog" is - I had to google it - but also to choose it as your emblem. I would expect such a person to be better prepared in the thread than you appear to be.

But perhaps you

are

better prepared - you have adopted a persona which will excuse any scum-convenient oopsies you might make. This is what I wonder. So I wonder, and I am suspicious.
[/vote]

Well there goes my town lock.
As soon as I saw the juggernog I was hard-reading them as town doctor. Didn't want to say anything but you're bringing up very good points in this entire post.

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler:

OK. Everyone seems a bit more serious, which is good, because I think there's enough to get serious on. Let's start off by taking the boot off of Canada:

UNVOTE: OldMapleNostalgia

I will give my current readlist:

(TOWN-ISH) - TeamRocketQueen, Non-Imh, OldMapleNostalgia, Natsu, JacksonVirgo
(SCUM-ISH) - RG, RoboApocalypze, Weiss Schnee.

Let's begin with the last three, as I think town would most productively want me to address these.

RoboApocalypze

...

Three lazy posts, a self-vote, and then

nothing

. There is quite literally zero interaction with town. Super lazy. Maybe too transparently lazy for actual scum, I dunno, but if I don't suspect someone after that, what the hell am I doing here?

This is fair, to me this is a dead slot and we may need to pressure them for activity or lynch them but probably not today because it gives us little info going into tomorrow regarding interactions.

RG

...

You have been acting very clumsy and noobish in-thread, as if you don't understand a thing about the game. However, there are two things that make me suspect this is a sham. First, you must have been practically camping the game start, because I had been checking here and there in spare minutes at work ever since I confirmed receiving the role PM. I got in the thread pretty quickly - sixteen minutes after Karnage opened the game - and you beat me here. That speaks to a considerable interest in the game... but you basically blunder around like you've never seen one of these games before, which is hard to reconcile with that level of interest. I read through other games for a while before signing up, and I knew to have an avatar, basics of gameplay, etc. from just doing that. In addition, you're gamer enough to not only know what "Juggernog" is - I had to google it - but also to choose it as your emblem. I would expect such a person to be better prepared in the thread than you appear to be.

But perhaps you

are

better prepared - you have adopted a persona which will excuse any scum-convenient oopsies you might make. This is what I wonder. So I wonder, and I am suspicious.

Camping at game start means nothing, they could have just been hyped to play the game or any other reasons. Kinda angle shooty in a way but it's a fair assessment, but look at my previous reasons why I town read them for now. Can easily change however

WeissSchnee

....

Your votes flit from person to person. When you changed your vote to Natsu, and JacksonVirgo asked you about it in #47, they asked if it was an RVS vote or not. You replied:

Most everyone else seems townier at the moment but yeah basically

The first half of that sentence nukes the second. If you have a reason, then it's not RVS and you should announce it as such, so we know things are actually getting serious now. When you moved off Natsu, you said you were moving on to your next null... why nulls? Why not pressure people you think are scum? Do you think no one is scum at this point, worthy of real pressure?

Then there's your recent interaction with RocketQueen. You draw attention to the fact that RQ is attempting some sort of meta read on JacksonVirgo and definitely claiming she's read up on your games, and your first move on an apparently well-informed newbie is to... question if they're really a newbie? This struck me as weird when I first read it, and still does, considering how generally helpful you've been putting on the noob-herding teacher hat from time to time in this thread. I don't know exactly what I

would

expect you to post in response to that, but that just feels off entirely!

This is kind of contradictive because you said rg may not be a newbie or forcing the persona if one and then you say that Weiss is doing the same thing but is scum for it? Can you explain that?

VOTE: WeissSchnee

[Weiss Schnee]

Actually I half want to flip my comment, that might be so tinfoily that it has to come from town

I still think the argument is totally wrong but recti probably isn't scum for arguing it

[Rectiplanes]

RoboApocalypze

...

Three lazy posts, a self-vote, and then

nothing

. There is quite literally zero interaction with town. Super lazy. Maybe too transparently lazy for actual scum, I dunno, but if I don't suspect someone after that, what the hell am I doing here?

This is fair, to me this is a dead slot and we may need to pressure them for activity or lynch them but probably not today because it gives us little info going into tomorrow regarding interactions.

If I have a choice between lynching someone I think is townish and Robo, Robo is getting the rope.

RG

...

You have been acting very clumsy and noobish in-thread, as if you don't understand a thing about the game. However, there are two things that make me suspect this is a sham. First, you must have been practically camping the game start, because I had been checking here and there in spare minutes at work ever since I confirmed receiving the role PM. I got in the thread pretty quickly - sixteen minutes after Karnage opened the game - and you beat me here. That speaks to a considerable interest in the game... but you basically blunder around like you've never seen one of these games before, which is hard to reconcile with that level of interest. I read through other games for a while before signing up, and I knew to have an avatar, basics of gameplay, etc. from just doing that. In addition, you're gamer enough to not only know what "Juggernog" is - I had to google it - but also to choose it as your emblem. I would expect such a person to be better prepared in the thread than you appear to be.

But perhaps you

are

better prepared - you have adopted a persona which will excuse any scum-convenient oopsies you might make. This is what I wonder. So I wonder, and I am suspicious.

Camping at game start means nothing, they could have just been hyped to play the game or any other reasons. Kinda angle shooty in a way but it's a fair assessment, but look at my previous reasons why I town read them for now. Can easily change however

Of course it means they were hyped for the game start! I was hyped for the game start and waiting on it, and they beat me in... then acted like they had no idea what they were doing. "What's the vote on?" If they're that hyped, I figure they have read other games and know what the score is, what RVS is, and so forth. Instead...

So, it makes me wonder. You know? Hence putting him in my pool of scum-ish players.

WeissSchnee

....

Your votes flit from person to person. When you changed your vote to Natsu, and JacksonVirgo asked you about it in #47, they asked if it was an RVS vote or not. You replied:

Most everyone else seems townier at the moment but yeah basically

The first half of that sentence nukes the second. If you have a reason, then it's not RVS and you should announce it as such, so we know things are actually getting serious now. When you moved off Natsu, you said you were moving on to your next null... why nulls? Why not pressure people you think are scum? Do you think no one is scum at this point, worthy of real pressure?

Then there's your recent interaction with RocketQueen. You draw attention to the fact that RQ is attempting some sort of meta read on JacksonVirgo and definitely claiming she's read up on your games, and your first move on an apparently well-informed newbie is to... question if they're really a newbie? This struck me as weird when I first read it, and still does, considering how generally helpful you've been putting on the noob-herding teacher hat from time to time in this thread. I don't know exactly what I

would

expect you to post in response to that, but that just feels off entirely!

This is kind of contradictive because you said rg may not be a newbie or forcing the persona if one and then you say that Weiss is doing the same thing but is scum for it? Can you explain that?

Huh?

I think RG is a newbie and limping as a way of covering for 'oopsie' scum-convenient behavior later on. It's a believable tactic

because

he's new. But it doesn't quite jive with being so quick out of the gate to join in and his avatar suggesting he's a gamer. I'd expect him to have done some homework before throwing his hat in the queue: know what RVS is like, and have a notion of how he plans to approach the game coming right in.

Weiss is floating votes around, gives you a self-contradictory answer that the vote isn't a RVS but kinda is, and is generally behaving wishy-washy. Weiss is definitely not a newbie, and from what I've seen of other games, such behavior is suspect.

Oh, wait, I see: you're wondering why I'm reading Weiss as scummy for reading Rocket Queen as possibly not a newbie when I'm reading RG as scummy for being possibly not a newbie. RG should be explained above: I do think he's a newbie, just one whose behavior is inconsistent in an intriguing way. And I'm not reading Weiss as scummy in the interaction with TeamRocketQueen because she's wondering just how new RocketQueen actually is, it's because of the quality and tone of her response, which rubs me the wrong way on some level. Weiss has been this noob-friendly exposition fairy to all the rest of us new players fairly consistently, and then acts differently when TRQ opens up by talking about meta.

The main reason for my vote against Weiss is the wishy-washy vote and the bullshit yes-but-no answer on whether the Natsu vote was RVS or not, though, not the TRQ interaction. That bit was more like the salt on a scum soup.

[Weiss Schnee]

"bullshit"? I gave a pretty clear answer.

What's with your hyper-aggressive tone here?

[Weiss Schnee]

I think you're reading like way too much into "have you played offsite"

Like the only other player that opened with a meta argument was lmh who is an SE; I feel like *starting* with meta on day 1 is kinda unusual for a newbie so it's kinda a valid question to ask "huh as a new player you're not doing what I would expect you to be doing, what's up with that" which is basically what I was doing

[Weiss Schnee]

Natsu vote was RVS or not

I mean I voted Natsu because his post sounded weird, and the reason it sounded weird was because he was writing posts as haiku

So yeah, it was basically RVS insofar as it was responding to a weird tone which is basically what you do in RVS

[Weiss Schnee]

I also don't really see how playing FPS games at all means rg is likely to have any grasp of how to play mafia so that seems like a really weird argument, being a "computer gamer" and playing mafia are pretty different

[JacksonVirgo]

RoboApocalypze

...

Three lazy posts, a self-vote, and then

nothing

. There is quite literally zero interaction with town. Super lazy. Maybe too transparently lazy for actual scum, I dunno, but if I don't suspect someone after that, what the hell am I doing here?

This is fair, to me this is a dead slot and we may need to pressure them for activity or lynch them but probably not today because it gives us little info going into tomorrow regarding interactions.

If I have a choice between lynching someone I think is townish and Robo, Robo is getting the rope.

That's not what I said at all

RG

...

You have been acting very clumsy and noobish in-thread, as if you don't understand a thing about the game. However, there are two things that make me suspect this is a sham. First, you must have been practically camping the game start, because I had been checking here and there in spare minutes at work ever since I confirmed receiving the role PM. I got in the thread pretty quickly - sixteen minutes after Karnage opened the game - and you beat me here. That speaks to a considerable interest in the game... but you basically blunder around like you've never seen one of these games before, which is hard to reconcile with that level of interest. I read through other games for a while before signing up, and I knew to have an avatar, basics of gameplay, etc. from just doing that. In addition, you're gamer enough to not only know what "Juggernog" is - I had to google it - but also to choose it as your emblem. I would expect such a person to be better prepared in the thread than you appear to be.

But perhaps you

are

better prepared - you have adopted a persona which will excuse any scum-convenient oopsies you might make. This is what I wonder. So I wonder, and I am suspicious.

Camping at game start means nothing, they could have just been hyped to play the game or any other reasons. Kinda angle shooty in a way but it's a fair assessment, but look at my previous reasons why I town read them for now. Can easily change however

Of course it means they were hyped for the game start! I was hyped for the game start and waiting on it, and they beat me in... then acted like they had no idea what they were doing. "What's the vote on?" If they're that hyped, I figure they have read other games and know what the score is, what RVS is, and so forth. Instead...

So, it makes me wonder. You know? Hence putting him in my pool of scum-ish players.

[color=#FF000] Literally that's angleshooting, even if you're correct. Do you have anything else on them?[/color]

WeissSchnee

....

Your votes flit from person to person. When you changed your vote to Natsu, and JacksonVirgo asked you about it in #47, they asked if it was an RVS vote or not. You replied:

Most everyone else seems townier at the moment but yeah basically

The first half of that sentence nukes the second. If you have a reason, then it's not RVS and you should announce it as such, so we know things are actually getting serious now. When you moved off Natsu, you said you were moving on to your next null... why nulls? Why not pressure people you think are scum? Do you think no one is scum at this point, worthy of real pressure?

Then there's your recent interaction with RocketQueen. You draw attention to the fact that RQ is attempting some sort of meta read on JacksonVirgo and definitely claiming she's read up on your games, and your first move on an apparently well-informed newbie is to... question if they're really a newbie? This struck me as weird when I first read it, and still does, considering how generally helpful you've been putting on the noob-herding teacher hat from time to time in this thread. I don't know exactly what I

would

expect you to post in response to that, but that just feels off entirely!

This is kind of contradictive because you said rg may not be a newbie or forcing the persona if one and then you say that Weiss is doing the same thing but is scum for it? Can you explain that?

Huh?

I think RG is a newbie and limping as a way of covering for 'oopsie' scum-convenient behavior later on. It's a believable tactic

because

he's new. But it doesn't quite jive with being so quick out of the gate to join in and his avatar suggesting he's a gamer. I'd expect him to have done some homework before throwing his hat in the queue: know what RVS is like, and have a notion of how he plans to approach the game coming right in.

Weiss is floating votes around, gives you a self-contradictory answer that the vote isn't a RVS but kinda is, and is generally behaving wishy-washy. Weiss is definitely not a newbie, and from what I've seen of other games, such behavior is suspect.

Oh, wait, I see: you're wondering why I'm reading Weiss as scummy for reading Rocket Queen as possibly not a newbie when I'm reading RG as scummy for being possibly not a newbie. RG should be explained above: I do think he's a newbie, just one whose behavior is inconsistent in an intriguing way. And I'm not reading Weiss as scummy in the interaction with TeamRocketQueen because she's wondering just how new RocketQueen actually is, it's because of the quality and tone of her response, which rubs me the wrong way on some level. Weiss has been this noob-friendly exposition fairy to all the rest of us new players fairly consistently, and then acts differently when TRQ opens up by talking about meta.

The main reason for my vote against Weiss is the wishy-washy vote and the bullshit yes-but-no answer on whether the Natsu vote was RVS or not, though, not the TRQ interaction. That bit was more like the salt on a scum soup.

Being a gamer is nothing what? They could just be new to FM, I jumped right into FM without doing my homework as Town so your logic is flawed.

Regarding Weiss, I don't personally see the logic but you're probably Town for it. Yay, PoE is happening yall

I am not fully against a Weiss lynch just I feel Maple is better

[JacksonVirgo]

I also don't really see how playing FPS games at all means rg is likely to have any grasp of how to play mafia so that seems like a really weird argument, being a "computer gamer" and playing mafia are pretty different

I take back what I said, Weiss is probably Town

[JacksonVirgo]

Town Core

rg, Rectiplanes, Weiss

Personally I see Maple as a scum, but likely with Non (just gut for Non)

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe my vote is already on Maple

[Rectiplanes]

"bullshit"? I gave a pretty clear answer.

What's with your hyper-aggressive tone here?

You were asked a pretty clear question: was the vote on Natsu RVS, or not? Answering no ("most everyone else was townier") and yes ("but yeah basically") at the same time is, well, BS. You didn't really answer JacksonVirgo's question.

As for framing my reaction as hyperaggressive - I roll my eyes in your general direction.

I think you're reading like way too much into "have you played offsite"

Like the only other player that opened with a meta argument was lmh who is an SE; I feel like *starting* with meta on day 1 is kinda unusual for a newbie so it's kinda a valid question to ask "huh as a new player you're not doing what I would expect you to be doing, what's up with that" which is basically what I was doing

I'm not reading too much into it because it strikes me as a only a little fishy. The non-answer, bouncing light votes, and general floatiness of your posture are what why I tossed a vote on you. Those little fishies are forming a school.

I mean I voted Natsu because his post sounded weird, and the reason it sounded weird was because he was writing posts as haiku

So yeah, it was basically RVS insofar as it was responding to a weird tone which is basically what you do in RVS

I could care less why you voted for Natsu. I paid no attention to it until your handwavy non-answer to JacksonVirgo.

I also don't really see how playing FPS games at all means rg is likely to have any grasp of how to play mafia so that seems like a really weird argument, being a "computer gamer" and playing mafia are pretty different

They have very different skillsets but that is not the crux of my argument. I am saying that an enthusiastic

gamer will read the manual

, so to speak, before jumping into a game. On the off chance that they didn't and blindly jumped in I would expect a touch of devil-may-care YOLOness to their attitude instead. ISOing RG reveals none of that sort of attitude whatsoever.

If RG came in later, I wouldn't think much of it, but being the first player to post within minutes of the opening bell argues for enthusiasm, and his posts don't really reflect that one way or the other (at least on the surface). Compare JV and I, who also were early posters: we both charged in, threw votes immediately, and cracked wise. RG has this very SUP GUYS Joe Cool laid back thing going on in comparison.

[Weiss Schnee]

Dude games haven't had manuals in like two decades

[Weiss Schnee]

do you think that as scum he faked not knowing that votes were for lynches

I am kinda curious how he found the site actually given people usually play mafia irl first before coming to a site like this

@rg how did you happen to find mafiascum?

[Weiss Schnee]

I'm sorry which JV question did you not like my answer to?

[Rectiplanes]

Being a gamer is nothing what? They could just be new to FM, I jumped right into FM without doing my homework as Town so your logic is flawed.

You were excited, right? You had a lot of enthusiasm, charging in like that, right?

Reread RG's first couple of posts. Hell, just ISO him from the standpoint of "so fired up he charged right in!". Doesn't fit!

So, OK, he's a gamer. Maybe he did his homework here. Except then he spends his time asking basic questions and acting confused. So he didn't study up on the game. He didn't charge in like a bull in a china shop. So - maybe he did do his homework. And he saw that scum pretending to not understand things can do a good job of causing trouble in Newbie games and skate. "Oh, I didn't know I was supposed to wait for a claim!" type stuff. I have seen that in a few of the games I read through. So - that's my suspicion there.

I'm sorry which JV question did you not like my answer to?

Post #47 and your no-but-yes answer in #48

[Weiss Schnee]

I mean, everyone else seemed townier of people who had posted, but there were still slots who hadn't posted yet. So it's not like it was a proper PoE, I just didn't see a point in voting someone who hadn't posted yet when Natsu's op read kinda weird

I feel like your problem with that post is kinda ???

[rg]

dumb tells are lean mafia if anything so jackson reading rg town for them and for rg's push onto jackson seems off. especially since town reading someone who pushes on you is common early game behaviour for mafia.

the info gained from meta analysis seems to be extremely limited. jackson seems a lot more active early in this game than other recently completed games of theirs in which they were town, but that's possibly because they were recently mislynched in a fairly exciting final 3 by the worst when they thought they had been towny throughout, and part of the reasoning for that was limited activity. (also the worst seemed to have it solved but then gave way to much weight to discussions between the two living parties when he knew one of them was mafia). non seems to post very little regardless of alignment, and weiss schnee's most recent completed games are hard for me to read since she was a replacement (and one of them is like 375 pages long and had 21, multiple replacements, and i can't make much sense of it)

anyway,

VOTE: jackson

seems like you're trying to get into the specifics and psychology of the game. I am doing the same. Let me explain my actions.
I didn't know that pushing hard towards immediately finding a suspect would be suspicious because it's my first game so I allowed myself to be quick in that topic, regardless of if I'm part of the townies or the mafia. Also, if both Jackson and I were mafia I wouldn't rat him out early in the 1st day. That would be bad strategy all throughout. I legitimately found him suspicious because of what I said earlier and he legitimately got the impression that I'm trying to find a suspect and looking hard for clues.

[rg]

do you think that as scum he faked not knowing that votes were for lynches

I am kinda curious how he found the site actually given people usually play mafia irl first before coming to a site like this

@rg how did you happen to find mafiascum?

A friend on Teamspeak recommended it

[rg]

OK. Everyone seems a bit more serious, which is good, because I think there's enough to get serious on. Let's start off by taking the boot off of Canada:

UNVOTE: OldMapleNostalgia

I will give my current readlist:

(TOWN-ISH) - TeamRocketQueen, Non-Imh, OldMapleNostalgia, Natsu, JacksonVirgo
(SCUM-ISH) - RG, RoboApocalypze, Weiss Schnee.

Let's begin with the last three, as I think town would most productively want me to address these.

RoboApocalypze

...

Three lazy posts, a self-vote, and then

nothing

. There is quite literally zero interaction with town. Super lazy. Maybe too transparently lazy for actual scum, I dunno, but if I don't suspect someone after that, what the hell am I doing here?

RG

...

You have been acting very clumsy and noobish in-thread, as if you don't understand a thing about the game. However, there are two things that make me suspect this is a sham. First, you must have been practically camping the game start, because I had been checking here and there in spare minutes at work ever since I confirmed receiving the role PM. I got in the thread pretty quickly - sixteen minutes after Karnage opened the game - and you beat me here. That speaks to a considerable interest in the game... but you basically blunder around like you've never seen one of these games before, which is hard to reconcile with that level of interest. I read through other games for a while before signing up, and I knew to have an avatar, basics of gameplay, etc. from just doing that. In addition, you're gamer enough to not only know what "Juggernog" is - I had to google it - but also to choose it as your emblem. I would expect such a person to be better prepared in the thread than you appear to be.

But perhaps you

are

better prepared - you have adopted a persona which will excuse any scum-convenient oopsies you might make. This is what I wonder. So I wonder, and I am suspicious.

WeissSchnee

....

Your votes flit from person to person. When you changed your vote to Natsu, and JacksonVirgo asked you about it in #47, they asked if it was an RVS vote or not. You replied:

Most everyone else seems townier at the moment but yeah basically

The first half of that sentence nukes the second. If you have a reason, then it's not RVS and you should announce it as such, so we know things are actually getting serious now. When you moved off Natsu, you said you were moving on to your next null... why nulls? Why not pressure people you think are scum? Do you think no one is scum at this point, worthy of real pressure?

Then there's your recent interaction with RocketQueen. You draw attention to the fact that RQ is attempting some sort of meta read on JacksonVirgo and definitely claiming she's read up on your games, and your first move on an apparently well-informed newbie is to... question if they're really a newbie? This struck me as weird when I first read it, and still does, considering how generally helpful you've been putting on the noob-herding teacher hat from time to time in this thread. I don't know exactly what I

would

expect you to post in response to that, but that just feels off entirely!

VOTE: WeissSchnee

Okay this is a really good hypothesis. I wouldn't dream to think of that. I admire your line of thinking. I'd like to explain myself.
1. I was there extremely early because the site is always opened on my pc ever since I requested to get into a forum. I was excited to get into the game because it was unique to me, regardless of my role.
2. I am a gamer, but I've never played a game remotely resembling this. If I did, I would know that even if I got hastey in the first irl day it would seem suspicious which would be bad if I were on either side.
3. Basically, attempting to put on a slagish persona would not be benefitial for me. If I were to put on a persona, I would slip up and say something that I really shouldn't and that would come to reveal my role, which would be awful if I were mafia and also, how does seeming like a noob excuse me from mistakes?

[rg]

As soon as I saw the juggernog I was hard-reading them as town doctor.

Because Richtofen is zhe doctor? :p

[rg]

okay. I was acting laid back because it's in my nature to TALK that way. However, when I'm fired up on smthg I am quick in doing it because patience isn't my strong side.
Also, I would like to add that this is why I was excited to. Reading Rectiplane's hypothesis of me from every strategical and psychological standpoint got me hyped again because that's why I joined the game. I wanted to see people's line of thinking and slowly get better at this by learning people's code of behaviour. If more of this are to come I'm hyped.

[rg]

This game is getting exciting, everyone is getting fired up to find the mafia and I'm liking it