Mini Normal 2119 [game over]

[Menalque]

I think that gamestate says chem is likely town but I also think looker is likely town (assuming I’m right on bob!scum) because I think them both being on wilky is a weird option for both scum to choose and while it’s kind of big brain to double down on a townie like that I’m not sure either of them plays like that

Icon and GL are both competent, especially GL who’s on a hot streak recently, so as I don’t have the time to put the case for scum!bob as strongly as I’d like I’m willing to compromise on chem

This imho kinda locks Menal as town for me.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.

can you just run through what you thought was so town!indicative for me about this post?

[Menalque]

In regards to Ico it could quite be possible Ico got a result and would be set up.
Dat blocks Ico is still a possible world.

Depending upon what Ico did and didn’t do and did and didn’t submit/get we get a look into his mentality town/scum.

It’s about the results and what he did/tried/is lying about and why.

dats claimed her shots, she didn't block ico

[MathBlade]

In regards to Ico it could quite be possible Ico got a result and would be set up.
Dat blocks Ico is still a possible world.

Depending upon what Ico did and didn’t do and did and didn’t submit/get we get a look into his mentality town/scum.

It’s about the results and what he did/tried/is lying about and why.

dats claimed her shots, she didn't block ico

He claimed all but his last one.

Pronoun field for Dat is he please respect that.

His last post is paraphrased as “Red block Micc. Green it’s up in the air.”

[Menalque]

I don't really get the whole vote discussion thing that bji is on about and that math is talking about in 3640

unless there's a huge mechanical advantage for this, that can be clearly explained and understood then focusing on mechanics here is not helpful at all. like all mechanics does is be boring and/or take the focus away from actual scum hunting, like how people are positioning and whether their stances throughout the game have been helpful to town or to scum

[MathBlade]

I think that gamestate says chem is likely town but I also think looker is likely town (assuming I’m right on bob!scum) because I think them both being on wilky is a weird option for both scum to choose and while it’s kind of big brain to double down on a townie like that I’m not sure either of them plays like that

Icon and GL are both competent, especially GL who’s on a hot streak recently, so as I don’t have the time to put the case for scum!bob as strongly as I’d like I’m willing to compromise on chem

This imho kinda locks Menal as town for me.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.

can you just run through what you thought was so town!indicative for me about this post?

At that specific point in time wagons were divided. Compromising on your scumbuddy there doesn’t make much sense unless the bus is planned. There would be no incentive to bus. Plus I don’t think if you’re scum you say a buddy is likely town then be willing to vote there it seems too unplanned. With scum then having a shit ton of mislynches in a row that reads forethought and planning.

[Menalque]

In regards to Ico it could quite be possible Ico got a result and would be set up.
Dat blocks Ico is still a possible world.

Depending upon what Ico did and didn’t do and did and didn’t submit/get we get a look into his mentality town/scum.

It’s about the results and what he did/tried/is lying about and why.

dats claimed her shots, she didn't block ico

He claimed all but his last one.

Pronoun field for Dat is he please respect that.

His last post is paraphrased as “Red block Micc. Green it’s up in the air.”

I have explicit permission to use "she" for Datisi

also, right, I'm with you now

[MathBlade]

I don't really get the whole vote discussion thing that bji is on about and that math is talking about in 3640

unless there's a huge mechanical advantage for this, that can be clearly explained and understood then focusing on mechanics here is not helpful at all. like all mechanics does is be boring and/or take the focus away from actual scum hunting, like how people are positioning and whether their stances throughout the game have been helpful to town or to scum

There is much more of an advantage in games with a 2 week + cycle.

The idea is that the most townread person should be in charge of voting (me you or Ico) to prevent a scum hammer situation.

[MathBlade]

Eventually three people will consolidate and fake vote.

Then you get a general sense of if the fake hammered person is town or scum by their reaction and vote

And the game narrows to fake hammer victim + person real voted.

[MathBlade]

If the fake hammer victim is scum then they have a narrowed pool in which at least one scum has to be in.

Then the first real vote carries the least amount of risk.

[MathBlade]

Is town** sorry I really think bji is scum

[MathBlade]

Gotta go work starts now

[Menalque]

Spoiler:

I don't really get the whole vote discussion thing that bji is on about and that math is talking about in 3640

unless there's a huge mechanical advantage for this, that can be clearly explained and understood then focusing on mechanics here is not helpful at all. like all mechanics does is be boring and/or take the focus away from actual scum hunting, like how people are positioning and whether their stances throughout the game have been helpful to town or to scum

There is much more of an advantage in games with a 2 week + cycle.

The idea is that the most townread person should be in charge of voting (me you or Ico) to prevent a scum hammer situation.

Eventually three people will consolidate and fake vote.

Then you get a general sense of if the fake hammered person is town or scum by their reaction and vote

And the game narrows to fake hammer victim + person real voted.

If the fake hammer victim is scum then they have a narrowed pool in which at least one scum has to be in.

Then the first real vote carries the least amount of risk.

okay, but I don't see how a fakehammer that's known to be a fakehammer is going to get reactions really?

I don't hate the idea of you or me or icon being in charge of hammering / casting the first vote

but yeah I don't really get what the advantage is supposed to be to this

[Menalque]

You’re more looking for a player saying scum exist in (not entire player list)
For a rule of three inference.

hmm that's interesting. Why does that distinction matter?

If I'm being compelled to fake vote next in this very moment I would also be on bji, but given more time I'd prioritize spending it interacting with menalque. Locking him in as the consensus town read and then allowing him to direct conversation is a reasonable path forward. I only have slight reservation about menalque and it comes from Looker getting nightkilled while voting menalque.

micc, would your team be rn?

I think I'm also leaning bji but it's worrying me as well that he increasingly looks like the consensus lynch for today, and idk if that means bussing or if that means that he's been brought to be exactly the mislynch

as far as looker goes my first thought was that it was strange and slightly condemnatory for icon, but it has the flip side of being a kill that looks really bad on bji and maybe partly on me too

[Menalque]

You’re more looking for a player saying scum exist in (not entire player list)
For a rule of three inference.

hmm that's interesting. Why does that distinction matter?

If I'm being compelled to fake vote next in this very moment I would also be on bji, but given more time I'd prioritize spending it interacting with menalque. Locking him in as the consensus town read and then allowing him to direct conversation is a reasonable path forward. I only have slight reservation about menalque and it comes from Looker getting nightkilled while voting menalque.

Fake votes also happen whenever you want them to.

It’s much less likely Looker was nightkilled because of reads. VC wise looker had no votes from D2+ I think?. No one else scumread Looker. His case was going nowhere and people just don’t listen to dead people much as we wish we might. Looker was a universal townread. Probably killed to see if I push Ico. That’s much hunch and most likely is you and bji.

idk, I'm not totally sure about this, but again, I'm willing to defer to you on bji. is he a panicky player as scum? do you think he would kill someone who was tunnelling him or do you think this could be a frame up job?

I think it's worth considering the angle of reads as well, because I think that there's a reason why I wasn't NK'd and looker was, given that I think we were falling into similar consensus TR positions by the end of yesterday

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

I don't really get the whole vote discussion thing that bji is on about and that math is talking about in 3640

unless there's a huge mechanical advantage for this, that can be clearly explained and understood then focusing on mechanics here is not helpful at all. like all mechanics does is be boring and/or take the focus away from actual scum hunting, like how people are positioning and whether their stances throughout the game have been helpful to town or to scum

There is much more of an advantage in games with a 2 week + cycle.

The idea is that the most townread person should be in charge of voting (me you or Ico) to prevent a scum hammer situation.

Eventually three people will consolidate and fake vote.

Then you get a general sense of if the fake hammered person is town or scum by their reaction and vote

And the game narrows to fake hammer victim + person real voted.

If the fake hammer victim is scum then they have a narrowed pool in which at least one scum has to be in.

Then the first real vote carries the least amount of risk.

okay, but I don't see how a fakehammer that's known to be a fakehammer is going to get reactions really?

I don't hate the idea of you or me or icon being in charge of hammering / casting the first vote

but yeah I don't really get what the advantage is supposed to be to this

It’s not for reactions. It’s so probable scum have to vote first or be outed.

[Menalque]

Look, I hate to use Real World Events as some kind of excuse, but, there is a lot going on right now and I don't have time at the moment for a detailed deep dive back into the game, which is what I intend to do. So please be patient. I will get there, but we do have 7 days for this.

My conception of how fake voting would go is, the rules are you always post your fake vote something like "

Evot: bji

", and afterwards be sure to include the current vote count so that it's easy for everyone to keep track of. And then when/if a plurality is reached on a wagon, then the players on that wagon are required to place their votes in the same order for real. The only exception being, the last vote is not allowed to be a quickhammer, i.e. within say 4 hours of the L-1 vote. If anyone votes in a 'quickhammer' fashion then that person is automatically the lynch for the day. If anyone refuses to vote their fake votes once a plurality is reached, that person is the automatic lynch for the day.

In this way we can use voting for discovery but don't have to worry about quickhammer. But everyone has to obey these rules or it doesn't work.

I mean we have 5 days and realistically we have half of that because we're not leaving this until deadline. so how is the deep dive going because it either needs to happen imminently, or we need to play around you not doing it. bji, what do you make of the overall gamestate right now?

[Menalque]

Spoiler:

I don't really get the whole vote discussion thing that bji is on about and that math is talking about in 3640

unless there's a huge mechanical advantage for this, that can be clearly explained and understood then focusing on mechanics here is not helpful at all. like all mechanics does is be boring and/or take the focus away from actual scum hunting, like how people are positioning and whether their stances throughout the game have been helpful to town or to scum

There is much more of an advantage in games with a 2 week + cycle.

The idea is that the most townread person should be in charge of voting (me you or Ico) to prevent a scum hammer situation.

Eventually three people will consolidate and fake vote.

Then you get a general sense of if the fake hammered person is town or scum by their reaction and vote

And the game narrows to fake hammer victim + person real voted.

If the fake hammer victim is scum then they have a narrowed pool in which at least one scum has to be in.

Then the first real vote carries the least amount of risk.

okay, but I don't see how a fakehammer that's known to be a fakehammer is going to get reactions really?

I don't hate the idea of you or me or icon being in charge of hammering / casting the first vote

but yeah I don't really get what the advantage is supposed to be to this

It’s not for reactions. It’s so probable scum have to vote first or be outed.

I don't mind doing it but I don't totally understand it. If you feel strongly that's fine, but like I said you're probably gonna have to talk me through it again when the time comes

[Menalque]

I really think it probably is bji too actually

the fact that he's been here but seems to be mostly focusing on a discussion of mechanics -- even if they are useful -- as opposed to trying to find scum which is what I'd expect to be his focus is v +scum I think

[Menalque]

alright, so if it is just bji then the partner is icon or micc

icon and micc can you both give your solve of the game when you see this?

[Menalque]

Your time is supposedly limited bji. If it is then figure out the gamestate. All of town have to agree.

big +1 on this

[Menalque]

hey look i'm alive

much fun

Hey look got results?

same type of a negative result i had prev day, on micc

why did you follow micc, icon?

[Menalque]

like given there were 2 scum left and micc was probably the most suspect, it seems like this would be the time to go for a paranoia check on me or math if you had any doubts at all, because scum!either of us was pretty much a lock to be performing the kill fypov?

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

I don't really get the whole vote discussion thing that bji is on about and that math is talking about in 3640

unless there's a huge mechanical advantage for this, that can be clearly explained and understood then focusing on mechanics here is not helpful at all. like all mechanics does is be boring and/or take the focus away from actual scum hunting, like how people are positioning and whether their stances throughout the game have been helpful to town or to scum

There is much more of an advantage in games with a 2 week + cycle.

The idea is that the most townread person should be in charge of voting (me you or Ico) to prevent a scum hammer situation.

Eventually three people will consolidate and fake vote.

Then you get a general sense of if the fake hammered person is town or scum by their reaction and vote

And the game narrows to fake hammer victim + person real voted.

If the fake hammer victim is scum then they have a narrowed pool in which at least one scum has to be in.

Then the first real vote carries the least amount of risk.

okay, but I don't see how a fakehammer that's known to be a fakehammer is going to get reactions really?

I don't hate the idea of you or me or icon being in charge of hammering / casting the first vote

but yeah I don't really get what the advantage is supposed to be to this

It’s not for reactions. It’s so probable scum have to vote first or be outed.

I don't mind doing it but I don't totally understand it. If you feel strongly that's fine, but like I said you're probably gonna have to talk me through it again when the time comes

I don’t mind doing that just say “I fake vote X” replace X with your choice of player

[MathBlade]

Quite honestly imho if bji is town we lost anyway because they aren’t trying

[Micc]

You’re more looking for a player saying scum exist in (not entire player list)
For a rule of three inference.

hmm that's interesting. Why does that distinction matter?

If I'm being compelled to fake vote next in this very moment I would also be on bji, but given more time I'd prioritize spending it interacting with menalque. Locking him in as the consensus town read and then allowing him to direct conversation is a reasonable path forward. I only have slight reservation about menalque and it comes from Looker getting nightkilled while voting menalque.

micc, would your team be rn?

I think I'm also leaning bji but it's worrying me as well that he increasingly looks like the consensus lynch for today, and idk if that means bussing or if that means that he's been brought to be exactly the mislynch

as far as looker goes my first thought was that it was strange and slightly condemnatory for icon, but it has the flip side of being a kill that looks really bad on bji and maybe partly on me too

I haven't taken the time to sit and think deeply about a team solve. Right now I have reasons to believe you, icon and math are town for one reason or another. bji is really still a POE vote for me right now. given how well that strategy has worked along with the concensus moving toward him today, i do have some reservations. Not feeling good about voting based on a POE pool that is smaller than the scum remaining.

then again, i'm in a place where i'm not sure ill feel great about anythign no matter how much work i put in and that's been discouraging.

hopign to go pretty deep on bji iso dive tonight and take a close look at his scum game that was linked. if the case is strong enough for him being scum then i'm voting there and figuring the rest out at 3p lylo.