Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Krazy]

VOTE: hectic

how you doing man?

[Krazy]

Indecisive Doc is a weak role, and Phone Operator is almost meaningless except to catch obvious lies...which is also pretty meaningless.

A D2 or D3 Innocent Child, however, is very strong.

Yeah phone operator is named mod-confirmed town who can, on a very low chance, find the doctor and thus can gate lynches to protect the doc, leading to ic-->hidden IC on d2-3.

[Krazy]

This happens anyway though, if we force whoever we lynch to out their neighbor before they die.

but when does town ever play optimally, ss?

[Krazy]

whats ur 2 cents on titus krazy

She's town but we should be sticking to "strategy A" until there's a town consensus to switch to "strategy B"

Strategy A: Hoods aren't revealed until L-1 with intent to protect the doc
Strategy B: All hoods are revealed to guarantee the production of ICs upon redflips

We can always switch to B, but we can't go back to A once we go B.

[Krazy]

So Elsa, what's your verdict on Frozen 2?

[Krazy]

after some talking with teammates

setup isn't actually breakable unless we hit both scum very early with doc saves

There are three things that confuse me in this post, can you find them all?

[Krazy]

Elsa tell the truth you don't like it as much as 1

[Krazy]

Maybe, but it's still kinda early. Why what's up?

[Krazy]

Isn't "both" more a fakey attempted townslip than a scumslip tho? Why is oka townie off tone?

[Krazy]

Nancy what's your new avi from?

[Krazy]

I just like neighborhoods for gambiting and reaction testing ngl. Having a place where you can document what you're really thinking while you say something else is very useful.

But have you tried just saying what you're really thinking in the main thread?

[Krazy]

As opposed to when only one person can see what you write?

I know what you mean but if your hoodie is scum then there's literally no reliable record of your thoughts when you die. Which is maybe even worse than being ignored because then scum can decide what you said?

[Krazy]

I mean it's more a burn and I'm pretty sure burns can come from either alignment

[Krazy]

Do you think SS has been transparent in a townie way so far?

[Krazy]

That chandra seems kinda worse than the other chandras

[Krazy]

Oh shit Doctor Eddie Murphy has changed races

how you doing Eddie?

[Krazy]

Hectic why are you signing your posts?

[Krazy]

Also "first few day *phases*" ? Was that a typo?

[Krazy]

Hi Thilbert, glad you're here. How long have you known Hectic?

[Krazy]

Wow, twins!

[Krazy]

Yeah, how many people are in your hydra? Also do you have a main account on your own?

[Krazy]

Auro doesn’t like Krazy’s opening.

Oh nice, that should confirm me as town then :3

[Krazy]

This would qualify as a potential scumslip imo.

Can you expand on what makes you think of it as a scumslip for Elsa?

[Krazy]

You guys mind if I lurk the first few day phases out? I joined too many games and this is lower down on my priority list. My partners will probably check in later.

-Hectic

dont lurk. lurking is absolutely not a towntell for you.

I think that was setup for his hydra meme joke, not an actual announcement of lurking

[Krazy]

He also said in Excalibur that you don’t joke as scum.

If I recall correctly, you were right on me in Excalibur and he was wrong, just like you were right on me in No Deadlines, although every time you're scum you tend to be uncertain about me. In fact the last time you were uncertain of me you were uncertain of me *with Auro* iirc

[Krazy]

piss sell me on eddie murphy over pine

[Krazy]

I’m not scum here. The only game I’ve been scum with Auro was in CoC2 and I don’t recall at all being uncertain on your slot in that. I was also uncertain of you in CoC 1, where Auro was scum and I was town, so I’m not understanding this.

Yeah I wasn't saying you are. I was feeling a bit ehh on your opening but feel like you've warmed up a little. But if you're town I kinda don't know why you'd value Auro's take over your own when frankly you usually are right on me earlier when you're town

I guess I'd have to reread the Coc games, you might have been more confident than I remember.

[Krazy]

VOTE: Pine

where are you on this slot nancy?

[Krazy]

I was uncertain of you as town in CoC1, because Ank kept pushing obvtown Shoshin.

Yeah, that's more what I was saying. You just don't tend to be uncertain of me at all when you're town. Whereas in MD2, CoC1, you both would find reasons to not locktown me at certain stages. I'm still feeling like you're likely town, I just think Auro being paranoid of me for NAI reasons is kinda a meme, one that he is aware of since we've talked about it several times

[Krazy]

Why is DDL or Hectic town?

I'm not certain either is town, DDL hasn't done certain things I expect him to do as scum, but it's too early to say the lack of those things is exculpatory.

I haven't yet had a real conversation with Hectic since he was kinda caught up in his meme before so he's still pretty null, but I am enjoying his humor tbh

[Krazy]

I'm going to tackle this in the morning. I have a deep gut feeling that there's either a setup break or at least a mandatory-once-we-see-it strategy in the setup.

Essentially, talented players don’t get credit for Townslips, and get possible scumslips held against them. It’s a higher standard.

It’s a compliment.

Krazy is so super obvtown it hurts.

Calling it. [Krazy, nancy, one other]

VOTE: Hectic

Nnnnnope. I'm all for gimmicks, but this isn't the set of games, and you comes off more as trolling than anything else.

I guess 127 might not ping other people as much as me but I feel like Pine should recognize at a glance this setup cannot be "broken" so this feels like distracting fluff, also the optimal strategy can be described in like a sentence. ("claim hoods at intent") actually maybe just four words lol.

192 just seems like attacking a townblock and 242 seems unnatural

Feel like this is better than Elsa or Eddie atm. Maybe I should go full aggro and demand everyone sheep me immediately for better results? :3

[Krazy]

Is that bad?

Not by definition. But I feel like Pine is more trying to keep his options open than both townhunt and scumhunt. He said you were town and his neighbor was town but the rest of his iso is mostly setup spec and weak potshots. If Pine is town I'm sure he can do better with encouragement :3

[Krazy]

I don’t think anyone is currently sr Eddie?

piss was arguing for pressure there even if it wasn't a full scumread so I was responding to that

[Krazy]

It's a bit early to be saying stuff like this, no? Some people have barely posted at all.

Do you think Pine is town?

[Krazy]

Is that a recent read from Jingle or still based on RVS/pre-111?

[Krazy]

Or you could scumhunt and talk like a normal human, Oka

Why are you acting like you need your hand held to scumhunt?

[Krazy]

VOTE: Oka

Alright this can happen too if you're just going to be obnoxious

[Krazy]

No he just wants to say "ok [x]" the entire game apparently because that's how people like him on this site play mafia and conduct themselves

[Krazy]

because while he was asking elsa about frozen 2 there were things going on in the background that he could;ve entered into on his own accord

like he had to be brought into setup spec stuff, but like even if he isn't into that

there were other ongoing happenings in thread that he avoided

Yes, you were contributing to the pointless spammy setup spec and you were scummy for that too. Titus made a bad proposal, it was shot down, the correct strategy was identified quickly and then everyone decided to keep talking about it like it was interesting when it was not. Pine in particular argued there was a mech solution possible when that's laughable. It seemed insincere. But here's the thing. If people are going into bad setup spec, and you want to see how far they push it, then you sometimes need to just let the do their thing. What if they *do* try to say there's a solve? You don't get people to open up naturally by constantly breathing down their neck and whining.

Look at your development on me. You first complain that I'm not being "solvy" when the game is still in a pretty boring slot. Why do you focus on me? Because I asked Elsa about the meme that his entire persona is based around? Here's the thing Oka. That is to say that you don't think I'm solving the game in a way *you like* because I actually try to get a feel for people and how they're doing rather than spam posting whatever inane thought has popped into my head that particular second. Like you're usually annoying and you don't respond particularly well to my playstyle so I was kinda willing to give you some room to be wrong but you're being too incessantly wrong and too distracting for me to give you a pass here. I'm starting to feel this push is more agenda-driven, or you're just having a bad early game even for you, but frankly I know your scum game involves being distracting and annoying, and I know your towngame is mediocre so I'm more than happy to just remove your slot and get on with the game since there's little upside to keeping you alive.

I already have a pretty decent town pile. There are arguments for Titus, S_S, pops, Nancy, and piss for town. I am pretty sure I can solve Dr. Downey Jr. by day 2. Elsa if scum is unlikely to endgame in a setup this stacked for town. So strictly speaking, if town is going to lose, it's going to be against people who can organize a scum strategy well (Pine) or someone who can actively disrupt town cohesion (you). You give weak agreements with what I'm saying about scumreads but actively distract and disrupt from my solving, so since you don't seem to want to even let me push Pine without you deflecting pressure off him then it seems like you going first is the best thing that can happen to this town.

[Krazy]

You assume that engaging with people on their memes is "avoiding" but think saying pointless bullshit about setup is productive? Give me a break

And yes, when you were town I carried you because scum killed you before you could throw the game. Mini a while back. You're awful at reading me which is why I thought this could be typical you, but your scum game also involves being obnoxious so you've been pushing me toward that

[Krazy]

I will be on the road most of the day tomorrow. If I still have energy when I get home I'll try to catch up then, otherwise Tuesday. I'm still kinda dealing with holiday travels.

My team got back to me a little which made me think about a few slots more.

Pops you are amai townie kawaii ko-chan. Someone wanted you to know this, you can guess who

Bob, for reference I am also det. Pikachu. I was in a game with you a bit back and you feel kinda diff here than you did there. Is there any mitigating factor that would explain that (pressure from your team etc.?)

Salt I was in a game with you, either on weiss or dva, and you feel a little more passive here than you did there. Kinda same question, has your playstyle changed much in last two or three months?

**

oka, maria has played with you but she has no useful metric for reading your alignment. I know there's more you've said but I will have to save that for tomorrow

**

Hectic, srs bsns questions. Mad Max: Fury Road or Road Warrior? Fallout or Last of Us? Imagine Dragons or Iron Maiden? These are essential to me understanding your alignment

More when I'm not mobile posting

[Krazy]

Yeah that wasn't a team conclusion, that was me recalling my meta impression from games I read. I.e. When I read your scum games I tended to feel annoyed at you as someone not in the game. Also you'd have like 700 posts which goes against the grain with typical scum metas so the 'annoyed' feeling was one of the only metrics I got off it. It wasn't a conclusion from my team, it was a conclusion from when I read your games in that mini normal when I was DVa. I think you died before I talked about it. Idr it was like months... A year ago?

[Krazy]

I am also det. Pikachu.

det pika was fairly lit.

Yeah we were doing well, sorry I couldn't handle nom better

Ok for real now I'm off gn

[Krazy]

@Krazy why do you feel weird to Ank?

Do I feel weird to you?

Few different possibilities spring to mind, but I'd probably have to talk to her myself to know what she means.

@Titus, if you’re seriously going to follow Math’s reads, then I will be advocating PLing you in every game we’re in. Not joking.

This seems really excessive and unfair. This is team mafia, and it’s her actual brother.

Hmm, how do you feel about Mass Effect, Titus? I didn't know you were C.Shep's sister. You're like a cross-section of mafia aren't you

[Krazy]

VOTE: Hectic

Hi, Nancy, are you related to Doctor Drew?

I'm V/LA until Monday in case you missed that; I was being serious when I said I've only read the first two pages.
I'll come and obvtown my slot real quick when I'm back so you don't need to worry.

Oh

whoops

, I just dropped my

stethoscope

, how clumsy of me! I guess I'll retreat into my

consulting room

, and consult my

Drew

.
(hint hint)

UNVOTE:

Hectic is town. Get your votes off of him.

Nancy has a pretty good scum range, one that it has been hard for me to gauge in the past. However, this thought process (push Hectic, imagine Hectic is softing PR, hard push to unvote and suddenly insist he's town) feels a loooot more like town Nancy than scum Nancy. Now let's just make sure no one mentions the Oscars.

im gonna follow pops
VOTE: S_S

What specifically makes you feel strongly on pops town?

[Krazy]

Okay, thanks.

I don't think he's posted enough serious content to be readable yet.

I actually feel like this is a pretty reasonable take on Hectic for when this is written, still haven't seen what led to the l-1

Its a personality read.

He is scum.

Just wondering but how does a personality read differ from a tone read, or are they the same thing? Just not used to this term being used like this I guess

*

Note to self: Reread Pine on page 25 later

[Krazy]

I usually hesitate to use meta, but S_S is such a weird player it's close to required, otherwise you're either going to policy lynch him every single game for not using his vote or townlock him as both alignments for never ever pushing an agenda when those things are just how S_S plays.

I kinda feel like as scum S_S is slightly faster to develop an 'agenda' after being called out for being passive whereas here he's kinda just been protecting his townreads. I don't know that makes him locktown like others have said but it isn't exactly the progression I'd expect to see from him as scum

Yeah, Hectic is definitely the lynch today. Gut feeling, he's trying to draw out the real Doc.

This is an extremely shallow read.

Agree

**

I like Hectic's 654

**

But also hectic is feeling townie lol

UNVOTE:

This seems like a pretty reasonable response to 654

UNVOTE:

**

I’m not confident on it, I’m a lot more confident on certain tr. Like you, Krazy, Titus, Elsa, Piss, for example.

Have you played with scum piss Nancy?

**

UNVOTE:

I like this and actually her paragon dig at Pine on the page before.

I've never seen you last this long being mad at someone or get this pissed this early for people not marking you as town.

While this can be fair, she handles the pressure of scumreads worse as scum, this is not yet in the ballpark of MD2 (where she was scum) but feels easily within the range of LNT (where she was town)

This is one of S_S's posts that is one of his goodpostings

and its logic applies to how I am not eager to justify a read for the 999th time that I'm not sure about

With some effort I could articulate some elements of what's a mismatch, some of it is harder to articulate

I can tell you virtually none of the patterns were present in Crown, I don't know if that's incidental or if S_S tends to play IC differently.

VOTE: Krazy

What does any of this post have to do with voting me?

[Krazy]

I know I’m obvtown and you’re being a woat.

To be fair Nancy, I don't think you should insist you're obvtown quite as much as you do

Halfway through this catchup, my son woke up with a fever of 104.6 so even though I read eberhjbng past where I last commented I’m not processing it. On the way to the ER. Sometimes when they’re doing testing on him I like to withdraw into distractions and sometimes I can’t concentrate on it so depending on how today goes I might be disconnected.

Good luck and hope everyone feels better!

Am I completely out in left field here, or does it look to anyone else that Hectic is PR hunting?

His push on you is kinda not good, but it could be that he's unfamiliar with how you think. It seems like he's saying you realized in 582 that he was not doc so your attitude on him being town should have changed immediately afterward, but I feel like 582 indicates you started to realize there were *problems* with him being doc, not that he certainly was not, which is not the same thing. While it's kinda fair for him to try to clarify this, I don't think the way he was doing so was particularly effective.

And I cashed it in for a ticket to Florida.

Also I'm back to work now, so yeah, talk to ya later tonight.

Nice. Also, happy birthday!

Spoiler:

Well I'm not voting Nancy today.

I'll do Eddie Cane, pops, DrDoolittle, Krazy, Hectic, bob3141 or NaCl.

Pretty much everyone else on this list is town or town enough for today (Amrun). Can we lynch today please?

I think I like that Titus has a list like this more than I care about being in the list

**

I have not played with either of them but I think you are Wagonomics? That was the game we were together in. No, it's just that I finally realized that I don't do well in games that have more than like 9 people in it because I can't really keep track of too many people at the same time. I'd initially hoped that it was just a thing I did as scum but this is actually the first game with 13+ players in it where I'm town and I don't feel that great here either.

Do you feel like your team is helping? Or does trying to coordinate with more people only make it more confusing?

@Micc

please replace pops

Not ok

{Nancy, bob}
{pisskop, Titus, Hectic, Oka}
{Pine}
{Eddie, Elsa, Amrun, NaCl, Krazy} - null
{pops, DDL}

Can you expand on why you're so strong on town bob?

Town to scum or scum to town?

Labels, people, ffs

Wow

I actually scum read you a bit earlier, argued with TW and Ank for a while, have you as prob town now.

What specifically made you feel better about Pine?

active, aggressive and opinionated

Not sure how you're connoting aggression but I am actively trying to be less aggressive

I’m legit shocked that no one’s teammates except I think for Skitter has given any opinions on me yet.

Maria agrees you're 'gut town'

I could undestand you maybe null reading a group of players or even privatly concider soem of tehm town based on what youve seen. But to form a town block with player you have barley interacted with no real sign of you really trying to sort them.

I'm not sure why you need to 'interact' with someone to conclude they're a candidate for a townblock. Some players are diggers, some are analyzers, not everyone is good at both

I feel like if somebody coded a robot to play mafia it would sound like Bob

Really didn't like the replacement talk but I agree with Eddie that bob's posts in the 960s feel bad

VOTE: hectic

what didn't you like in 967 or 968?

you don't think hectic's most recent posts are shit?

I don't get the impression he was reading everything given that he seems to have missed my lowball questions in 830 but it's hard to tell the extent that he's caught up at any given point

Wait, who can make a valid case for scum!kop?

Maria wants to kill you, actually, but I'm still thinking about her reasoning

generic townread

what is a generic townread?

[Krazy]

I did think your interaction was kinda interesting but I guess I'm not sure I agree that it was 'intense'? Also when I played with him in the mini he seemed more solvey as town, although I also replaced in that game iirc and only read his early play later in the game when I could go through it all at once. I'll think about it though and add it to my reread list for later.

[Krazy]

that was responding to SS

[Krazy]

1000

quality pagetop

big oof elle

what does this post mean?

does krazy usually fall behind?

yeah when I'm out of town

Scumread when I joke around, and scumread when I post seriously. There's no winning in this game and I don't have much motivation to play. But here's a reads lsot from the top of my head (mobile posting)
Pine - scum: Scumread me early on for NAI things, and since then has talked about me being scum while talking about teams and wolves, yet not stated any reasons for me being scum.
Nancy - townlean: The only scum pings I got from her were during those whole doctor shenanigans but if she speaks the truth in that she never takes emotions, then it's NAI.
Okapoka: Townread
SS: Townread
Eddie: Scumlean based off pops' logic
Pops: Townlean, logical posts through the game. Her reaction seemed genuine when Eddie outed the hood
DDL: Scumlean - haven't liked his content this game, and vote hopping onto me
Titus: scumlean - reasons I've specified already and being okay with a flip 9 days early is ???
Elsa Jay - neutral: I don't remember much but he seemed alright? The attempted hammer is NAI because he admitted to it when it wasn't obvious he actually thought that would be a hammer

That's everyone I remember right now.

what's your read of me?

What, you mean scumreading 3 people on my wagon and townreading most people off? Just how it turned out, I try not to be OMGUSey; the wagon wasn't in my mind when I was making the reads list.

So are you discounting their votes or not thinking about their reasoning? idk I'm not sure why your wagon wouldn't be on your mind given your alignment is the one thing you theoretically know right?

@Pine If you are, stop

What does this mean?

Nancy, does krazy usually fall behind?

Am I allowed to discuss anything rl or not? I don’t want to get into trouble.

I mean I don't think I've made it a secret that I've been out of town

Regarding Pine, I really think this wagon is worse than the Hectic one and that Pine is town,

Why is Pine town?

I just prefer lynching Piss to Pine because I think there is a world where Piss is buddying a town!Pine whereas I don't think there is a world where Pine is buddying a town!Piss.

With that being said my best theory is Pine and Piss are both scum.

But also its more valuable to have potential wagons on both Pine and Piss right now than to have everyone sitting on Pine.

You're basically on the exact same page as Maria here

@Krazy, yes I have as scum in Gameshow and in HP under a different account.

Hmm okay, so you have a pretty good sense of his range then

I'll ask Maria more about how much experience she has with him. Her argument to me was that he was more trying to drive lynches rather than solving, basically. I would qualitatively agree that in our mini together he felt a bit more reflective and analytical, but most of that was with him replacing in at day 2+ iirc rather than on day 1 so much. I think I might have been in one other game with him on day 1. Maybe EICN?

[Krazy]

It doesn't. Krazy is competent, but using nominations as a basis for that opinion is just...not solid reasoning.

I think looking back this is what made me pause on Pine for a little bit, but looking at it now it seems kinda meh. I'm sure Pine is capable of some level of nuance but for the most part I haven't really felt like he's been genuinely trying to solve me. The other thing is that I have seen Pine have very good town games and very bad towngames but usually as town he swings more one way or the other. His reads here being sort of banal and his presence underwhelming matches a lot more how he usually feels as scum. I don't think his readrate on me is particularly good (he was wrong on me for most of Jingle's weird graveyard game thing) so I don't want to over-prioritize his read on me in particular but he's just said a lot of things at this point that feel forced or off one way or the other. I've tried to resolve some of my townreads arguing for him town and I'm not really seeing it

SS / Nancy
Titus / Amrun
Oka / DrD / Hectic
piss / Eddie / Elsa / pops / NaCL - sorting/reevaluation pool
bob
Pine

VOTE: Pine

Maria agrees with Pine scum even though she thinks piss needs to go more, I'm less certain
Shadoweh agrees that bob feels off but wasn't sure enough to argue I should be diving him

[Krazy]

ANK TOM AND MYSELF ALL DISAGREE

Tom expressed confidence in his read of me?

[Krazy]

OK that sounds a bit more like duck

Ank at least is approaching your slot like you're town so that's good

What does she think about Pine?

Also why do you (not them) think I'm scum?

[Krazy]

Is it wrong to townread Eddie for this? I'm kind of townreading Eddie for these mention things.

no not really but the progression is a little bit townie, especially if Ank is actually uninformed of my alignment.

[Krazy]

It costs 1 sheep vote per question. Tax incl.

This is kinda cute but does that mean you're not actually going to answer questions?

[Krazy]

Twice in a row I've pushed Pine and then been immediately counter-pushed is interesting tho

[Krazy]

I've been sitting on a vote for a while.

why tho? Do you think that being aloof makes you easier to read?

[Krazy]

I've spent the last half hour writing a Krazy case, but because the read is mostly from Tom and Ank it sound super awkward and I got bored

Have you considered that maybe at a subconscious level you know she's wrong?

The reality is that while your team might be all good players you are the one in the game. This means people are reacting to what you write and think, and so far you've mostly just been kinda oblique. Ank is a great friend and we have hydra'd a lot which also means she doesn't actually play with me that often in a way. When we did play together, she got false positives on me pretty regularly. When I am actually in a game with her, her (wrong) pushes on me can often help me gauge her alignment, but that's hard enough without an intermediary. My read on you has to be based on you. And the problem with your other team reads is that even if you are town, we don't really know how recent or deep those reads are.

Can you break down your pops case to some main arguments if you're not really into writing big long cases?

[Krazy]

I'm leaning wrong town but I feel like you're trying to convince me otherwise. Do you want me to call you scum?

[Krazy]

Eddie do you have any relation to Deckard?

[Krazy]

Actually the opposite is the case

Ank being wrong on me isn't new, it's our baseline and oldest history. Tom being aggressively wrong on me is kinda new but I'd have to see how well it holds up in real time tbh, he very often is wrong on me in the short term.

That's why I just want to see your thoughts, really. Who are you, Eddie Cane, and what is your meme?

[Krazy]

Eddie are you enjoying this game?

[Krazy]

Why did you opt for a black rectangle as a profile image?

[Krazy]

A vanity wagon is a wagon on which you are the only member

i.e. Elsa, bob, pops, Eddie, etc. are all on "vanity wagons"

But hey, all it takes for a vanity wagon to become a pine counter-wagon is a single vote right now! That's always fun too :3

[Krazy]

Pops what are you doing with your votes?

[Krazy]

That would be true eddie if I understood you. If you are being gnomic and hiding behind your team reads, then that raises challenges for knowing your alignment. The thing is I want to get to know you, I don't want to have a conversation with Ank with you as an intermediary because that's not fun. I know Ank and I talk to Ank every day. What I want to see is how you work and how you think because that's new to me. If I get to a point where I feel like I have a grip on your alignment, then I can revisit Ank's reasoning if it hasn't changed yet. Frankly for Ank there's many reasons she might be misreading me but you're kinda being a prick in being "I have reads" but not saying what they are for half the game, walking back the reads you do have without explanation, then going with "team sez" for your case. It doesn't make you scummy, exactly, but it's not just that you are coming off as pretentious but you really should be actively working to be less like *that* because it's not good for anyone. It doesn't make it easier to read you and it doesn't make it easier to solve with you if you're town.

[Krazy]

Why is Pine above ddl?

[Krazy]

eddie what is ur thought on pine/piss/pops as a team

Piss vs elsa?

[Krazy]

I kinda feel like hectic's just town tho

Pedit: that was at oka

[Krazy]

What are Pine's townpoints again?

[Krazy]

Pops who is town?

[Krazy]

If I am one of your top townreads why did you naked vote me earlier?

[Krazy]

See guys? See how you're all burying Pops now that I brought it up? This is why I don't need to case.

I'm so sad that ank is trapped behind this lol

Ank this is why

[Krazy]

...

[Krazy]

I was mobile posting for half the dayphase since the game started while I was out of town. Excuse me for having other things in my life after I quit this site. This game takes absurd amounts of time frankly

If you were unsatisfied with my content why didn't you say anything? I thought we were having a good conversation in the early game and was really surprised when suddenly you'd been having problems with me the whole dayphase.

also yeah, honestly I met up with dr easy bake the day before this game started and had a really nice in person session where I found it much more fun to actually play the social game as a social game, i.e. Try to get to know people more. i want(ed) to try doing that more here and I think that made my entrance. bit more rough and maybe pinged some people which is like, fine, whatever. If ank thinks that means my meta is off idc because I already quit the site and I came back for people not the game. that being said I didn't really want to present that as an "excuse" since I didn't really think I was that different and it's still possible ank's read wasn't even real. But Oka got pinged too and I'm like 70% sure he's town at this point so maybe people on this site just can't have conversations

That being the case I still think it feels really out of character for you to have a problem with my slot and just not do anything about it. Where is the pops that hero vigged nom?

also is there a world where you were backpedaling a townread on me because you know how to use commas

[Krazy]

Elsa why did you lie about how much you like frozen 2?

[Krazy]

Krazy why would I want to "work with you" when I threw our last game by letting you pocket me?
I want to work with others to figure you out

Yeah and we won the game before that by pushing reads everyone else fought us on

One scum win means we can't solve together again or what?

[Krazy]

Elsa why did you lie about how much you like frozen 2?

should i watch frozen 1?

I think you should sing the songs every time you shed

[Krazy]

I am mindmelding with Nancy here and that really warms me up on her alignment-wise.

I'm surprised skitter doesn't have nancy as town yet tbh

skitter has no read of me?

[Krazy]

She said something like she feels like she should have a read but she doesn’t.

That's so Skitter! (freeze frame, theme song plays)

[Krazy]

Personally I have like zero read if you which is alarming in and of itself.

Why is it alarming?

[Krazy]

Dude, I just noticed we joined the site 4 days apart

that's cray cray

[Krazy]

I think she’d be super active as scum

idk she's super lurky as scum on her alts

[Krazy]

Oooh we were in Hard Boiled, one of the games with Ythan back that pushed me to leave during my first run on the site. Not my best game, probably for the best you forgot it

[Krazy]

what are you talking about, pisskop just obvtowned

[Krazy]

what do you see nancy?

[Krazy]

Eddie ask Dann about Pine + Am

[Krazy]

When did he stop following?

[Krazy]

So 1540 was from rvs?

[Krazy]

Why is Amrun your top town?

[Krazy]

Amrun, ank wants to know skitters specific thoughts on Pops please.

She thinks S_S is super obvtown and that popsofctown should know that. Basically the entirety of it centers around post #534. She said she’d vote for that alone and ultimately I have decided to do just that.

534 pinged me but I don’t know pops very well so I was going to take a “wait and see” approach but skitter’s confidence gave me some of my own.

Maybe Amrun too?

@amrun also has teammates I'd like stuff from, specifically at least JJ.

Eddie, we would like a reads list please?

Amrun town
people~~~~
Krazy scum

@amrun can you please ask skitter and jj for reads lists please? don't care about reasons atm

i can sync up good with jj especially

if you take Pops as IC

then the team is something like {Krazy} + {DDL / Elsa} + {Amrun / Piss}

Is Ank solving Amrun through skitter proxy or Amrun qua Amrun?

[Krazy]

What changed since 1538?

[Krazy]

He was never my top.

Are you trying sort me, or are you scum reading amrun? Not sure where this questioning is going

I'm trying to solve both of you and rereading you confused me on your Am progression.

[Krazy]

He was never my top.

on the plus eddie/am is never s/s

[Krazy]

He was never my top.

Are you trying sort me, or are you scum reading amrun? Not sure where this questioning is going

So you're just going to evade the question again, then?

[Krazy]

You didn't explain why that changed or what is going on with your Am read, which was clearly the point. Instead you evaded by giving a vague unhelpful answer of "he's not" when asked why you listed him as your only town in one post and was the first listed town in your last reads list

{Amrun, NaCl, Nancy, Oka, SS, Titus} - will not vote today
{Pine, Pisskop, bob, Hectic} - don't really want to vote today
{elsa, ddl} - if needed would policy vote today
{krazy, pops} - want to vote today


is this a good enough reads list?

why are you being more elusive on one of your top townreads (apparently) than Elsa is being on why he doesn't like Frozen 2 as much as Frozen 1?

[Krazy]

So why didn't you just say that then? Why the equivocation?

[Krazy]

Why did it take you an hour to give a straight answer to a straightforward question?

[Krazy]

Okay then what the fuck is going on in 1538?

[Krazy]

VOTE: Eddie Cane

Okay what the fuck is going on in 1538?

[Krazy]

Nice

[Krazy]

He only sets up Am as scum upon a pops green flip, he doesn't actually change his read of her Nancy

His read is just so oblique it's easy to miss that, because he never gives a straight answer

[Krazy]

LOL

[Krazy]

Eddie are you just super awkward? Why do you give me cagey bullshit but write shit that makes sense about bob? Do you struggle with talking to people or what?

[Krazy]

what

[Krazy]

I was really mad at Amrun for lots of reasons and kind of diverted it about the scumslip. I still think it's scum indicative but sanity check it probably is a smaller thing
It's much more scum indicative that she will only townread people who aren't getting wagoned anyway and is on all the wagons and approves of people she scumreads forming wagons to go mislynch people without her.
It's all less scum indicative than Eddie's play this whole game.
VOTE: Eddie for symbolism and all that

[Krazy]

Nancy, he was being pedantic and cagey for no clear reason. I voted him to get him to be more direct, I wasn't really expecting a full blown wagon. That being said, I began the conversation talking to him thinking he was town but basically every response he gave made me reevaluate that. I didn't even particularly want to vote him but he refuses to ever be direct apparently unless he's under pressure.

I kinda think the idea that tom and ank both gave fresh reads list today since that convo is kinda unlikely. How did they go from both down for (redacted) reasons to giving full tiered lists within half a day?

I also am starting to think I can just bop ank + duck because at this point those lists look kinda fake to me. That is not at all what I would expect from Ank in an 82 page game

Also

[Krazy]

@Krazy, I think assuming Eddie was avoiding your question is kind of a reach. The thing is Eddie, I’ve seen Krazy make these kind of illogical leaps as town too, so I don’t agree it’s scum indicative just that your wagon is obviously bad, based on this.

However, I do have to wonder why Krazy didn’t consider he was possibly misunderstanding you.

I don't think the questioning itself has to be scummy. Though Ank and Tom have read all this and have him as their top scum now. The 1 hour thing, the posturing, etc is all bad to me though. Especially since Pops is calling him scummy, naked voted him, yet he votes with pops on me with no questions, after his last post about me has me leaning town. Seems like unnatural progression, especially without a qualifier voting that it is out of frustration or policy rather than scumminess.

This is the most dogshit post I have ever seen

[Krazy]

Nancy sit down and reevaluate because eddie just claimed scum

[Krazy]

I think I could make it happen. I'm waiting on tom and ank though, anks in a bad mood because of obvious redacted and tom is in a bad mood because of another obvious redacted.

First of all, I kinda thought this was bullshit since I talked to Ank today and she seems fine. Second, if duck was actually in a bad mood, then he would probably take a day off.

Tom gave me an updated reads list:

{Titus, Nancy}
{Oka}
{SS, Hectic, Amrun}
{Elsa, Piss, Pine, NaCl}
Pops - he doesn't know, bob - he needs my feedback, ddl - who
{Krazy}

There's basically no way Tom writes a tiered list like this the same day that he was in 'a bad mood'. Like I have played with duck in circumstances very similar to this, where he is kinda reading the game from afar, and this feels very different from anything he would produce when he is doing a light skim. He has ONE scum, but four tiers of "other stuff"? When you are lightly skimming a game, you look for scum first and foremost and go from there. I think duck gave input on this list but I think at this point Eddie is faking reads lists to give the impression his team is more involved than it really is.

Ank's reads are here (removed myself again)

Titus/Okapoka/Amrun
Nancy Drew 39/Something_Smart/Pine/Hectic/bob3141
Elsa Jay/DrDolittle
popsofctown/pisskop
Krazy/NaCl

I feel like there's basically zero fucking chance Ank writes a list like this *today*, because the five person second tier seems very atypical. That being said Ank is likely paying more attention to the game in any case so I don't know that she really made this up but I'm a lot less certain that she is actually uninformed about Eddie's alignment. There's very little chance she wouldn't have reevaluated me by now and begun correcting her read.

LOL MY WAGON IS 4?? HAHAHAHAHAHAA

also this is a manipulative overreaction

[Krazy]

Basically, Nancy, Eddie is being you in MD2

Tell me he's not

[Krazy]

a little overkill.

it's a little overkill because he got caught backpedaling a townread for no reason and now is overreacting

[Krazy]

I don’t think Eddie is scum,

prove me wrong then

[Krazy]

Though Ank and Tom have read all this and have him as their top scum now. The 1 hour thing, the posturing, etc is all bad to me though. Especially since Pops is calling him scummy, naked voted him, yet he votes with pops on me with no questions, after his last post about me has me leaning town. Seems like unnatural progression, especially without a qualifier voting that it is out of frustration or policy rather than scumminess.

Town writes this 0% of the time

[Krazy]

i haven't seen anyone calling hectic or bob town.

oh okay so as you're casing me you don't know my reads?

[Krazy]

Though Ank and Tom have read all this and have him as their top scum now. The 1 hour thing, the posturing, etc is all bad to me though. Especially since Pops is calling him scummy, naked voted him, yet he votes with pops on me with no questions, after his last post about me has me leaning town. Seems like unnatural progression, especially without a qualifier voting that it is out of frustration or policy rather than scumminess.

Town writes this 0% of the time

Tom didn't write that?

So ready to try to discredit you can't be bothered to read a 7 word post?

[Krazy]

How is he being like me in MD2? Have either of you possibly considered this could be a TvT?

Overreactions within overreactions basically

You probably don't feel it because you weren't really reading you in MD2

[Krazy]

He never said he stopped tr Amrun. The entire kerfuffle was about him only mentioning Amrun in one post, then him saying she wasn’t the top tr. That’s not even close to being in the same ballpark as what you’re alleging.

I mean if not then he was equivocating and making it unclear what it meant that she wasn't his "top townread" and was vaguely combative for literally no reason other than to goad me. So either he's manipulative and equivocal or he was backpedaling a read and in neither scenario do I see a clear town rationale for approaching the game and our conversation like that

I did try to ask if he was just awkward and he made no real effort to clarify what was going on in good faith before trying to case me again, instead just instant defensiveness

[Krazy]

- he has never played this way as either alignment

but you don't mention this when saying that Ank is arguing I'm scum based on meta?

[Krazy]

Yes, once again you make a surface level response to a question.

No shit it's tom's answer, but Tom and Ank are giving *different reasoning* in their arguments but apparently you don't clarify this with Ank before deciding to present an unrealistic "unbroken front" of reads?

Like, would Ank do that? To some extent, maybe, but I feel like you are forcing Tom to come up with reasons he scumreads me which is why his responses seem so 'blah.'

[Krazy]

@Krazy: Why is Eddie being pedantic and cagey AI?

I do agree he’s being pedantic and cagey, FWIW, just not that it’s scummy.

Krazy, can you answer this?

I definitely considered the possibility that he was just a pretentious jerk, sure. But now I think he's a pretentious jerk that's using personality AtE to deflect from the fact he's scum. There's just no reason for him to goad people into conflicts when they are trying to work with him to solve the game. Like I wanted to have a conversation about your alignment and he basically forces it to be between us again because he refuses to ever just give a straight answer the first time I ask. Town doesn't try to create that much discord purposefully. If he was actively evaluating alignments, he would be fucking real with me when I try to talk with him. Instead everything I learn about what he's saying is that he's slightly misrepresenting or overstating his team reads when it suits him, which is gross and manipulative

[Krazy]

Who would say right now that I "simply exist" in this game? Quick show of hands?

[Krazy]

How is he manipulating team reads?

He posted his Dann comments 700 posts (half the game at that point) after they apparently were written to create the impression his entire team had reached some level of consensus on me

[Krazy]

Krazy, I think Eddie honestly believes what he’s saying as does his teammates, so whether or not you’re making unwarrented assumptions or not, I believe he’s sincere.

I began today thinking he was town and planning to solve with him and his team and he has gone out of his way to intentionally misrepresent as many of points as possible, goad me into conflicts that he seems to think he can win, and selectively adjust when and what he says his team is saying to fit his agenda.

I can see where you're coming from, Nancy. Last night I was thinking he was town because I thought for a moment that he had conviction when he started doing capslock posts and stuff like that. But now his capslock posts just don't really make sense to me because this just really doesn't feel like a situation where duck has strong feelings.

Like let's say it's mostly been him talking to Ank. Of course Ank wants to kill me after AvP. That would be fine and I could kinda see it for a while. While she wouldn't really be consciously thinking I was scum, she'd be talking about me a lot and would prioritize getting me right. Sure.

So I was kinda from the position that Ank had just fucked with his reads a bit but that he really thought I was scum. But the more I talk to him the more obvious it is that he's just looking for reasons to smear or discredit me, and twice I've had to have real conversations with him both about his approach to his team and about other slots and both times he turns it into a conflict that it doesn't need to be. He wants to pick a fight with me, not solve me. If he thinks he can simply get townread by fighting me, then that is a scum political agenda even if he doesn't think he can get me lynched right now. I don't really see why you see him having conviction in *sorting* me rather than conviction in defending himself

[Krazy]

And he can’t be town wrong on you why?

It's not impossible Nancy, but right now I feel about him the same way I felt about DoubtingThomas in MD2. When people start goading intentionally and refusing to get the subtext of your questions, they are usually not town. He is too consistently 'dense' to be town because I don't think he's dumb

[Krazy]

I mean it could have been a playstyle thing with DoubtingThomas but it wasn't, even though he kept trying to make it seem that way by saying he just came from other sites etc. etc.

When people make cheap excuses for anti-town behavior they are +rand scum. He's explaining himself a bit better than DT did, sure, but the baseline strategy of over-reaction to muddy the waters is still there. Don't confuse AtE for conviction

[Krazy]

and i would not be shocked if all 3 were in pine / elsa / piss / ddl / pops / krazy

so vote pine

[Krazy]

Like, Nancy, let's look at one read.

All 3 of these people have votes, but I would like to propose a town bloc of Titus, Oka, SS.

I rescind my town bloc.

Look at 1342. This post is meant to be provocative right? First of all it's annoying, because he doesn't remind me people who his townbloc 500 posts ago was. This sort of provocative tone makes it seem like it's a big deal, maybe, right?

@Oka I need you to do a reads list please. Losing faith.

Sure, if we look back, it seems like his read of Oka was downgrading, but...

{Amrun, NaCl, Nancy, Oka, SS, Titus} - will not vote today
{Pine, Pisskop, bob, Hectic} - don't really want to vote today
{elsa, ddl} - if needed would policy vote today
{krazy, pops} - want to vote today


is this a good enough reads list?

What was the point of 1342, then? Did Oka do something in that time to redeem his townbloc status? If being downgraded from townbloc doesn't mean he's actually considering voting Oka today, then again, what was the point of 1342? He likes to really broadcast that he's had some sort of big read change, but no read change has actually occurred. It feels like he's more selling the idea that his reads are changing than that they are.

Compare to here--

bob/Nancy/Hectic
Amrun
Titus
Oka/SS/NaCl
Pine
Elsa/Piss/DDL
Pops / Krazy

Oka who previous was townbloked has now degraded significantly more than he did between 841 and 1632, and what happened between 1632 and 2046?

Like he sells it as a "spicy" reads list again, trying to draw attention to the fact that he's changing a few things around, but while it's a "bigger" change than his previous over-exaggerated post about the town bloc being rescinded, it still doesn't really make sense. And for a "spicy" post the bottom tier is still identical, so again, why sell it as "spicy"?

Conversely, with Amrun he makes a lot of posts saying he wants read from jjh, reads from skitter. It's not clear why ank likes the skitter post summaries, but he gets literally nothing about jj, who isn't reading the game. Seems fair but then it's a legitimate question, where is his amrun read coming from? Why does he feel like the amrun read was at the top of his reads list in posts like those I mentioned earlier (which now he basically says he was over-exaggerating to start driving a wagon), but he gets evasive when I ask why Amrun is top town. ("She's not top town..." -- which implies that she's degraded more than she really has, but then he doubles back and says she's still town he was just being pointlessly cagey and evasive earlier).

Why does town feel compelled to 'sell' the idea that they're doing reads more than the reads themselves? Like with the townbloc stuff, at this point it feels more like he was just trying to get people like responding to being in his townbloc or not, given the way he makes a weird post about Oka without really expanding on it. It just feels more manipulative than actually analytic.

So:
-Oka read feels more manipulative than analytic to me
-Amrun read feels weird and he chose to get into a fight rather than explaining it like town would
-Some of the reads (SS, etc.) feel kinda consensus but he's over-selling a few near-consensus townreads (bob) as "spicy" which is kinda fake
-I don't feel like he's actually trying to sort me but instead just wants to get into fights with me, which is the way some scum who don't know me operate (rb comes to mind)

[Krazy]

Like 1342 just doesn't feel like something town writes for such a minor and temporary change to their reads, although who knows, maybe he'll now say Oka has been null for 800 posts and he wrote 1632 that way just for shits and giggles

[Krazy]

Lol

Also his one-liner snipes feel weaker as the game goes on

[Krazy]

I am scum for being too sure if Amrun's alignment but also I am scum for not knowing Titus's alignment?

Who was this @

I'm sorry what are the implied questions here?

[Krazy]

Or you mean 1966 had more?

Maybe you guys should just be quoting the posts you're talking about

[Krazy]

Vote me or stop talking this is a waste of thread space

VOTE: Eddie Cane

Okay what the fuck is going on in 1538?

[...]Seems like unnatural progression, especially without a qualifier voting that it is out of frustration or policy rather than scumminess.

Titus, if you want a tl;dr, then simply put I don't think the person who writes 1952 looks at 1955 and then interprets it in the way they do in 2035 while still flipping town

2035 does not come from town

[Krazy]

@Krazy, I think assuming Eddie was avoiding your question is kind of a reach. The thing is Eddie, I’ve seen Krazy make these kind of illogical leaps as town too, so I don’t agree it’s scum indicative just that your wagon is obviously bad, based on this.

However, I do have to wonder why Krazy didn’t consider he was possibly misunderstanding you.

I don't think the questioning itself has to be scummy. Though Ank and Tom have read all this and have him as their top scum now. The 1 hour thing, the posturing, etc is all bad to me though. Especially since Pops is calling him scummy, naked voted him, yet he votes with pops on me with no questions, after his last post about me has me leaning town. Seems like unnatural progression, especially without a qualifier voting that it is out of frustration or policy rather than scumminess.

Actually looking at it again, the rest of this post doesn't make any sense either, since if Eddie is scum then pops is town unless they lied about the hood

[Krazy]

Maybe amrun just knows people better now?

[Krazy]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

[Krazy]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

That progression from 2126 tho

[Krazy]

You suddenly talking to your null/poe6 like you now are sure he's town from your pov.

But yeah you don't talk to anyone like you're uninformed of their alignment and don't have an agenda so I don't know why you'd talk to pine differently I guess

[Krazy]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

[Krazy]

LOL

[Krazy]

No because you haven't built half your iso around getting people to read your teammates

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

I don't know one of my teammates alignments because I had no intention of reading it. In any case it probably depends on the team so this idea it's unthinkable is eddie just using more unrealistic ATE

But you do you Nancy

[Krazy]

Because he's spent half the game selling the idea that if ank is approaching the game like he's town then he's town, and he's trying 5o ad hominem his way out of anyone disagreeing

[Krazy]

The idea that he actually thinks everyone playing team mafia knows the alignment of everyone else on their team does not at all account for the wide variety of playstyles and dispositions on this site, and he only argues it like that for self-serving reasons

[Krazy]

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

like you guys are looking at this and still thinking krazy is town? seriously?

Do you believe in ate after ate?

[Krazy]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=11500982#p11500982]
Idk, Krazy. At first, you were uncertain about him and were leaning town, but now you're regarding basically every action of his as scummy. Is this because his play got severely worse overall, or is scum!you shifting your perception? Could also be town tunnelling of course.[/quote]

Yeah, when I realized he was trying to provoke a fight with me and wasn't trying to sort me he lost the benefit of the doubt.

Actually Ank did something that made me briefly reconsider last night but in the end I decided it wasn't enough and isn't worth discussing right now

I thought for a while ank had just fucked up his read but now I see no indication he hasn't approached the entire game with a scum agenda

[Krazy]

Hectic find one example where he at any point seemed to actually *think* about my alignment instead of just moving among which wagon he thought was easiest between me and pops

[Krazy]

When is he evaluating am or pine in a genuine manner? How does his oka progression make sense from a town pov? I have tried to make sense of his reads, not his team reads that he constantly foregrounds, and I don't see it

[Krazy]

Let me illustrate what's happening. Krazy knows I'm very townie via my teammates, so he's pushing the world that I didn't tell my teammates I'm scum.

@Nancy @auro

you cannot still think he's lock town. i can't believe that.

No. Because when I tried to talk to you about my history with ank you tried to poison the well about it. Instead of having a real conversation you tried to downplay my point. All I wanted to do was understand where your read ended and Ank's began and for the entire first thousand pages it was almost impossible to understand how *you* were reading the game

[Krazy]

Eddie it's not poisoning the well, it's the truth. Her readrate on me is 0%. If you were town you would have considered this and maybe had a real conversation about us. Town would see that as the start of a conversation not the end of one. You have constantly been shutting me out for the entire game and not once have I felt like you were actually trying to read me and not just push me

[Krazy]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=11500982#p11500982]
Idk, Krazy. At first, you were uncertain about him and were leaning town, but now you're regarding basically every action of his as scummy. Is this because his play got severely worse overall, or is scum!you shifting your perception? Could also be town tunnelling of course.

Yeah, when I realized he was trying to provoke a fight with me and wasn't trying to sort me he lost the benefit of the doubt.

Actually Ank did something that made me briefly reconsider last night but in the end I decided it wasn't enough and isn't worth discussing right now

I thought for a while ank had just fucked up his read but now I see no indication he hasn't approached the entire game with a scum agenda

Explain how you think Ank is approaching the game with a scum agenda?

That's not what I said. Ank is probably uninformed of his alignment and is doing ank stuff and he's approaching the game with a scum agenda

[Krazy]

When you first posted that, she said it was disingenuous. Are you telling me I should consider my teammate is lying? Like what

Town would have asked how often ank is right on me

You did not, instead you shut it down and accused me of being scum, which is an overreaction

[Krazy]

you said "Ank's baseline is being wrong"
Ank said that is disingenuous

why would I need further questioning on that topic? its cut and dry

That's not a town mindset because you are making peesumptions about how my relationship with ank works. Like you don't know me. I don't know how well you know Ank but I feel like you spent this game trying to create conflict between me and people in your team rather than solve my fucking alignment

So are you scum or a colossal fucking asshole? I'm inclined to think scum because I don't think you're that much of a douche

[Krazy]

also

I told Tom you are arguing i didn't tell my teammates my role pm
and his reaction was a synonym of LMFAO

Obviously fake

Ducks can only say quack

[Krazy]

Why is everything a personal attack with you?

I don't think it's a personal attack dude, you're just scum.

[Krazy]

You've been positioning it as ank vs me rather than you vs me so yeah I think your modus operandi comes from scum that wants to ride their team through day 1 regardless of the fact that means playing proxy which is not something I can see town finding to be fun

[Krazy]

Calling you scum is not a personal attack

[Krazy]

In a world where you're town I'd say you owe me a massive apology but in reality I'd probably just block you

[Krazy]

This is a terrible format for a game tbh

[Krazy]

Fine. I'm not playing with Eddie.

[Krazy]

"Mountainous with 2 ics" isn't mountainous

Also neighbors becoming ics means there's like 4 ics since an ic is created every scum flip

Scum having no control over their nightkills in a mountainous is a good way to describe a mountainous that is a)heavily town favored and b)not fun for scum, with b being more important

[Krazy]

Scum can't really pocket hoodies with no possibility of ss hoods and the high probability of s/t hoods as a result

[Krazy]

why is anyone talking about mountainous when this isn't even kinda mountainous lol

[Krazy]

I can choose and I do choose not to like the setup :3

For team mafia people are not signing up for a specific setup. I would not have touched this with a ten foot pole in the open queue. If you're doing a setup where people are not choosing the player list OR the setup, it is much better if the setup is good. Frankly this setup just isn't good. Imbalanced or not it has built in snowballing and 2 stealth activated ics at game start. It's not fun for scum.

I mean partly I think the whole premise of team mafia is kinda just non functional, I'm not sure how much of that was being in a gametype and role I both don't like in a setup I don't like but certainly none of those helped

[Krazy]

this would be playable if it was flipless maybe