Open 775: Hard-Boiled Eggs [Game Over]

[Battle Mage]

This whole game is a soup of ??? but at this rate I'll probably end up voting hiraki at the end of the day, don't know if their weird attempts to gaslight mage by calling them an idiot then insisting they aren't being rude by doing so actually make them a wolf given the way people seem to be behaving in general in this game, but I can see a world where they're going the discredit etc route as a wolf either because they want to make it easier to mislynch mage or because they want to dumpster mage's thread standing. Don't see any reason for them to do it as village other than out of simple mean spiritedness. Don't really know what my read on mage is, think I'd probably be townreading them if it weren't for the peformative way they've been engaging with people. Don't know if they're consciously presenting themselves in a performative manner or if I'm just perceiving their personality that way, or something else.

I have a lot of respect and appreciation for this post. You're right with me - if you look at some of my old games, you'll see I'm very vulnerable to a mislynch!

I'm not sold on Hiraki-scum by any means - but I'm sympathetic to your idea it wouldn't be the worst thing to lynch him if we couldn't find anyone better.

[Battle Mage]

Hiraki notes

It didn't strike me until I re-read, but despite posting often, Hiraki has made almost no contribution to the game so far. Mostly "I like this" or "Don't like that" or "X is town". At one point, asked DrDoLittle to explain his vote, despite the fact he is still voting for 72offsuit (since Page 1?) with no explanation. It does have a lot of hallmarks of scum making minimal actual effort, but wanting to seem like they have something valuable to progress the discussion. Little consistency of view - one post suspicious of Iconeum, subsequent post very friendly towards Iconeum. Has repeatedly conveyed a very confident town-read throughout on Allomancer, but still tempted to jump on the bandwagon at L-2.

Earlier I'd looked at some old Hiraki games, and had an initial town read, but foolishly didn't make notes on which ones/why.

Micro 714 is definitely worth a look if you're keen. In Micro 714, Hiraki (Mafia Goon) also didn't make any real contribution to discussion (died Day 1), and also put most of his focus into arguing about whether someone had a right to be maligned after he had clearly undermined them.

For contrast, in Minimal Normal 2002, Hiraki (Town) quite quickly got stuck in with views, which were well thought-out and coherently expressed.

From a quick skim of various other games, Hiraki's attitude to the game isn't a tell - he swears a lot and can be unduly aggressive regardless of alignment.
the distinction, on this very small sample, appears to be that Hiraki-town gives enough information to support his position, so that he has some hope of persuading others to join him. Hiraki-scum doesn't give enough information to influence anybody, but also not enough information for anyone to be able to disagree.

In this game, as with Micro 714, although Hiraki has thrown shade and picked sides (without saying why), he hasn't given enough of a hook to grab onto, or to really judge his reasoning one way or another.

Unvote, Vote: Hiraki

[Hiraki]

Wow, what a great meta dive. You just said I'm bad at scum and good at town. Would it be bad to admit that I am a 100% better scumhunter as scum and 100% worse scumhunter as town? Or would you need to read more than 2 games that I ended on? Pretty annoying to read all of that, might just stop and pin you down as town next time and ignore for the meanwhile.

[Hiraki]

This whole game is a soup of ??? but at this rate I'll probably end up voting hiraki at the end of the day, don't know if their weird attempts to gaslight mage by calling them an idiot then insisting they aren't being rude by doing so actually make them a wolf given the way people seem to be behaving in general in this game, but I can see a world where they're going the discredit etc route as a wolf either because they want to make it easier to mislynch mage or because they want to dumpster mage's thread standing. Don't see any reason for them to do it as village other than out of simple mean spiritedness. Don't really know what my read on mage is, think I'd probably be townreading them if it weren't for the peformative way they've been engaging with people. Don't know if they're consciously presenting themselves in a performative manner or if I'm just perceiving their personality that way, or something else.

@Mod: Can I quote from the Mafiascum wiki? I know some mods aren't super cool with that.

That's not how it works! Definitely scummy attitude here.

Hiraki's attitude to the game isn't a tell - he swears a lot and can be unduly aggressive regardless of alignment.

Contradicting yourself right after is pretty neat.

because they want to make it easier to mislynch mage or because they want to dumpster mage's thread standing.

Play a game with me - before this post, Mage was townreading me even after being "derragatory" to him. Why would I want to do that?

Also - I have never ever said I wanted to mislynch him. If anything, I've made it clear that you should not trust anything he says but just mark him down as town and move on.

[Battle Mage]

That's not how it works! Definitely scummy attitude here.

Hiraki's attitude to the game isn't a tell - he swears a lot and can be unduly aggressive regardless of alignment.

Contradicting yourself right after is pretty neat.[/quote]

It's not contradicting myself - it's changing my mind based on the evidence.

[Battle Mage]

Oops, I haven't mastered this quote thing - above was response to Hiraki above.

[Hiraki]

Which is then why you voted me after looking at 2 games, both of which have not even happened close to this point in time. It's like if I took your games from 2008 at this point. I'm not going to do that because that's practically useless information.

[BrightEyedFish]

@Mod: Can I quote from the Mafiascum wiki? I know some mods aren't super cool with that.

Fine with me if you are quoting the wiki.

[BrightEyedFish]

Vote count 1.5

72offsuit (1)

- Hiraki

happyorange (1)

- ejjinami

DkKoba (1)

- Allomancer

Allomancer (5)

- Tet, 72offsuit, DrDolittle, Iconeum, DkKoba

ejjinami (1)

- Looker

Hiraki(1)

- Battle Mage

not voting (3) -

Madoka, Aloratom, happyorange

with 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch

deadline:

(expired on 2020-04-11 09:00:00)

mod notes:

searching for ejjinami replacement

-

[Hiraki]

Village Idiot (VI for short) is slang for a player who seems to habitually say or do the wrong things, then not understand the consequences of saying them. Most of the time, this tendency is due to inexperience with the game. Other times, it is due to poor intelligence or social skills on the part of the player. Still other times, the person saying these wrong things really is scum.

Let's continue on from here.

Aggression and confidence can be good if you have something strong to back it up. You don't, so seems like it's just an act (which is trait of a scum player). Especially when you opened up with "hello, this is my first non-newbie game", which was about as soft as it gets, and by page 4 you'd moved to stuff like:

"I implore people to put pressure on orange and make them explain themselves."
"If something speaks like scum, then it probably is scum."



For above reasons, and the transparent threat to vote for me even though you are apparently convinced that orange is scum, I'd be comfortable lynching you today.

It might be your first game, but panicking about 1 vote on Page 4 isn't a good look.

dkkoba, you're not wrong about the logic, obviously. You might be right about orange, but I'm not convinced for the moment. I think the idea that putting pressure on orange to "explain themselves" is a fools errand - clearly orange can't explain it satisfactorily, so you're setting him up to fail.

All of the above quotes are overconfident, over-assuming, and even down-right wrong at times but come from a town perspective than a scum perspective. This is before Battle Mage calls me out for the "shade" rather than the truth. This isn't something I want to discuss anymore so I'm not going to and I'm going to stick to my rules.

I think I'm good on this game atm. I have a townpool that I don't want to mess around with. The following people are

not

in that pool and I would be OK with lynching any of them: 72, happy, DrDolittle, Looker, ejji. Would not be surprised if the scumteam is in this range.

[Aloratom]

allo wanna explain why you're defending orange so hard btw?

I wouldn't call one post questioning a reason for scumreading him "defending so hard".

considering you're attempting to counterwagon onto me, yeah, I'd say that's a hardcore defense.

It's strange that there isn't a counter-wagon at all at this point in the game, isn't it?

[Allomancer]

Calling someone a VI is definitely not the same as calling them an idiot.

[Looker]

• This game is a bunch of rabble right now. Overconfidence and loud voices. It's easy to notice Tet and Koba, but not so much Battle Mage

VOTE: DrDolittle

[Aloratom]

VOTE: happyorange

I see no value added by orange. The hiraki v battle mage drama reads a bit Jerry Springer to me, and I can't find a side to take. I'm not even sure there is a side to take, so that may be indicative of TvT. I'm concerned about Allomancer because of the vote in 181, but I don't want to take it to L-1 in light of the 45 strategy. I think more scum hunting by everyone, including myself, is critical so the hider has a decent pool of information to work with.

[Aloratom]

I really don't see any town reasoning behind Dkkoba's recent posts.
VOTE: DkKoba

What, specifically, do you mean here? Without explanation, this comes off as OMGUS.

[Aloratom]

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT.

If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?

[Hiraki]

I can join in on happy.

Unvote, Vote: Happyorange

[72offsuit]

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT.

If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?

No.
I townlean DK.
Where did you get thia impression from?

[72offsuit]

allo wanna explain why you're defending orange so hard btw?

I wouldn't call one post questioning a reason for scumreading him "defending so hard".

considering you're attempting to counterwagon onto me, yeah, I'd say that's a hardcore defense.

It's strange that there isn't a counter-wagon at all at this point in the game, isn't it?

No. The wagon hasnt existed for that long and there are still six and a half days to deadline.

Im feeling pretty good about all the players on the wagon.

[Aloratom]

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT.

If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?

No.
I townlean DK.
Where did you get thia impression from?

If you look at the quotes, that question was for happyorange.

[Aloratom]

allo wanna explain why you're defending orange so hard btw?

I wouldn't call one post questioning a reason for scumreading him "defending so hard".

considering you're attempting to counterwagon onto me, yeah, I'd say that's a hardcore defense.

It's strange that there isn't a counter-wagon at all at this point in the game, isn't it?

No. The wagon hasnt existed for that long and there are still six and a half days to deadline.

Im feeling pretty good about all the players on the wagon.

I'm concerned about upsetting the game plan, but if people want to go off book, I guess we can deal with it.

[72offsuit]

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT.

If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?

No.
I townlean DK.
Where did you get thia impression from?

If you look at the quotes, that question was for happyorange.

Huh?

Im saying orange vd DK felt TvT.

And you are asking orange, which of orange and DK are scum?

Huh?

[72offsuit]

allo wanna explain why you're defending orange so hard btw?

I wouldn't call one post questioning a reason for scumreading him "defending so hard".

considering you're attempting to counterwagon onto me, yeah, I'd say that's a hardcore defense.

It's strange that there isn't a counter-wagon at all at this point in the game, isn't it?

No. The wagon hasnt existed for that long and there are still six and a half days to deadline.

Im feeling pretty good about all the players on the wagon.

I'm concerned about upsetting the game plan, but if people want to go off book, I guess we can deal with it.

I dont understand this post

[BrightEyedFish]

Almost50 replaces ejjinami.

[Aloratom]

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT.

If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?

No.
I townlean DK.
Where did you get thia impression from?

If you look at the quotes, that question was for happyorange.

Huh?

Im saying orange vd DK felt TvT.

And you are asking orange, which of orange and DK are scum?

Huh?

Happyorange, in response to your question said, "Uh, what? I don't remember doing anything other than ignoring DKK, not sure how you're imagining that as a TvT."

I then asked Happyorange, "If it's not TvT, I take it you think DkKoba is scummy?"

You, I believe, thought I was asking you the question. I was asking Happyorange, who said that they had been ignoring DkKoba. I know your read on DkKoba from your original statement. There was really no reason for you to interject.

I feel like we're falling down a well with no bottom.