Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

in order where scummiest is at the top

dave
BB
Xtom
Blake

For dave it's not even that i disagree with the content of his posts, he just seems different this game

Then who would you lynch right now from MT's list?

[GuiltyLion]

I currently have 54 posts (this is my 55th) and I only voted once. Does that make me scum?

I mean, it could! I think looking at the votes on players and why people are scumreading their scum reads is one of the most effective ways of distinguishing who is trying to genuinely sort vs who is coasting and blending, and I don't see enough in dave's ISO vis-a-vis scumreads and explanation for those scumreads for me to feel comfortable concluding that he's trying to solve. I have/had some other reasons for thinking that you are trying to solve, but at the end of the day this point kinda just makes me townread you less, not scumread Dave less.

Many times I've caught scum by just ISOing them and looking at who/when they've voted and why, and voting out the people who are posting a lot but not actually pushing many players by way of vote.

Based on MY experience with dave, he is more likely town than scum here.

What has Dave done in this game that he's more likely to do as town and less likely to do as scum?

Furthermore, pressure doesn't really make him yield. He plays the way he wants to and will fight to death for his own view.

I'm not trying to make him yield or sort him based on his reaction, I'm trying to create a wagon that has a good chance of flipping scum at the end of the day.

[farside22]

Sigh.

I'm not saying don't wagon him. I'm saying to be careful about it. He has a history of reacting very poorly to pressure like this and I expect it to escalate with somebody like Albert B. Rampage at the helm.

I've fallen into that same trap multiple times in the past and it has yet to go in a positive direction for town.

Can you tell the difference between scum or town play from dave?

[Almost50]

See, THAT is the problem. You now say LYNCH when it started off with "building wagons". I am alright wagoning multiple people, but if I had a DayVig I'd most likely shoot between you and EJ as we stand.

So, are you building wagons to pressure people and get them to talk more, or are aiming to end the day?

[GuiltyLion]

A50 I just reread your ISO in combination with Dave and I don't see why you townread him? You had him in a POE pool based off of who had not claimed hood/no hood, then took him off the list when ABR pushed you on whether you'd vote Dave. You've had some conversations back and forth with each other but they don't seem to push either of you in either direction. Dave said he was iffy on your slot. Why are you townreading him?

[Almost50]

@GL: ISO dave in THIS game and then compare his play to his play here

[GuiltyLion]

no, I'm not going to read a 314 page game where Dave was town and try to find similarities myself that make him automatically town in this game. Speak to me about what he has done

in this game

that makes him town.

[Morning Tweet]

See, THAT is the problem. You now say LYNCH when it started off with "building wagons". I am alright wagoning multiple people, but if I had a DayVig I'd most likely shoot between you and EJ as we stand.

So, are you building wagons to pressure people and get them to talk more, or are aiming to end the day?

You know, saying something like

I'm not trying to make him yield or sort him based on his reaction, I'm trying to create a wagon that has a good chance of flipping scum at the end of the day.

Could be a little bit of a white lie for pressuring purposes. at least that's how i interpreted it.

Why does what's happened here make you want to shoot GL? (not going to argue with the second choice)

[GuiltyLion]

although I guess if your point is just, he didn't vote much on D1, point taken. I still don't trust players who don't vote much on D1 in general, but maybe that's not especially indicative in this case

[Albert B. Rampage]

See, THAT is the problem. You now say LYNCH when it started off with "building wagons". I am alright wagoning multiple people, but if I had a DayVig I'd most likely shoot between you and EJ as we stand.

So, are you building wagons to pressure people and get them to talk more, or are aiming to end the day?

I don't give a fuck about weak hands pulling their vote at L-2.

I am talking about a LYNCH.

I need WARRIORS with DIAMOND HANDS.

[Morning Tweet]

o.o

[Pine]

I don't concur.

You still think GL is scummy? Enough to not help us build the first real bandwagon of the day?

I'm very slightly +Town on GL, actually, as before.

Just because you've built a shitty bandwagon doesn't improve its quality. History and site meta shows that "any wagon just to have a lynch" hits Town in wildly disproportionate amounts. I don't have numbers, but anecdotally, it's like 80%. Those are shit odds - I'll stick with an actual scumread, however modest it is.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Pine, a50 and Blake.

What's your 6 players you are willing to lynch?

[davesaz]

Sigh.

I'm not saying don't wagon him. I'm saying to be careful about it. He has a history of reacting very poorly to pressure like this and I expect it to escalate with somebody like Albert B. Rampage at the helm.

I've fallen into that same trap multiple times in the past and it has yet to go in a positive direction for town.

I have no idea who you are, but it becomes obvious we have indeed played before.

[davesaz]

ABR transparently wants a big wagon, doesn't really care much who it's one, and doesn't need to have an actual basis for it.
The most interesting thing I see here is that he's very very reluctant to be the first.

[farside22]

ABR transparently wants a big wagon, doesn't really care much who it's one, and doesn't need to have an actual basis for it.
The most interesting thing I see here is that he's very very reluctant to be the first.

Well he wont vote bm or drixx just to form a wagon.

[Almost50]

no, I'm not going to read a 314 page game where Dave was town and try to find similarities myself that make him automatically town in this game. Speak to me about what he has done

in this game

that makes him town.

I did not say to read the game, man. I said to ISO him. Skim his ISO and see what it feels like. If he's not doing much or if he has some inexplicable posts now I'm sure he does have a reason for it.

If we are going to lynch for the sake of lynching then let it be someone who is unlikely to win us the game when push comes to shove. Strong town players also tend to be the target of town investigations and/or scum NKs, so leave those alone.

Now vote EJ with me because he is MUCH stronger as SCUM. His town game is .. wait.. when was the last time he rolled town?? EJ & FL are designated scum in any given game.

[davesaz]

ABR transparently wants a big wagon, doesn't really care much who it's one, and doesn't need to have an actual basis for it.
The most interesting thing I see here is that he's very very reluctant to be the first.

Well he wont vote bm or drixx just to form a wagon.

Thanks, I hadn't noticed.

[Almost50]

Why does what's happened here make you want to shoot GL? (not going to argue with the second choice)

That was actually directed at ABR not GL, but I didn't preview so I understand the confusion.

So, to be clear: my top two SRs are EJ & ABR

[Albert B. Rampage]

As I've said, you can wipe your ass with your two scum reads, town should expand lynchpool to 6.

[davesaz]

Nah, ABR is probably town. Annoying as fuck and a little blind perhaps, but can't have everything.

[Morning Tweet]

Why does what's happened here make you want to shoot GL? (not going to argue with the second choice)

That was actually directed at ABR not GL, but I didn't preview so I understand the confusion.

So, to be clear: my top two SRs are EJ & ABR

ahh that makes sense

The further we go the more i want to retract EJ town lean. but i fear i might be biased so im waiting on that

As I've said, you can wipe your ass with your two scum reads, town should expand lynchpool to 6.

but BM and Drixx can't be in the lynch pool for reasons i guess? .3.

Nah, ABR is probably town. Annoying as fuck and a little blind perhaps, but can't have everything.

yup

[Almost50]

See, THAT is the problem. You now say LYNCH when it started off with "building wagons". I am alright wagoning multiple people, but if I had a DayVig I'd most likely shoot between you and EJ as we stand.

So, are you building wagons to pressure people and get them to talk more, or are aiming to end the day?

I don't give a fuck about weak hands pulling their vote at L-2.

I am talking about a LYNCH.

I need WARRIORS with DIAMOND HANDS.

And that's exactly why I want you lynched/vigged. Your attempt to strongarm the game the way you want it to go. Your defence of EJ and redirection of the wagon unto someone you know well won't react in a good way ro being wagoned. Everything you post appears to be scum motivated and I fail to find the town motive for it.

P.S. I may have bought this attitude from a less experienced player, but not you. And removing me from your "not to lynch today" pool just because I didn't sheep you is yet another red flag. There are players I wouldn't lynch D1 regardless, and I don't change that just because they go against me.

[Almost50]

Pine, a50 and Blake.

What's your 6 players you are willing to lynch?

I only have TWO. I won't be voting anyone outside of you/EJ until further notice.

[Almost50]

ABR transparently wants a big wagon, doesn't really care much who it's one

Oh, but he does care. He is firmly against an EJ wagon, for instance.