Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[farside22]

I responded to a bunch of Vecna posts explaining why I was scumreading him and also responding to his case post on me and never got a response

Farside has been announcing how strongly she scumreads me but hasn’t actually engaged with me at all since D1. Like her posts about scumreading me are directed towards other people and she’s not actually talking to me. In all of her other pushes this game she has had back and forths with the person she was pushing but she’s barely spoken to me D2 even though I’m apparently her strongest scumread.

And every time I engage with you, some how you magically aren't here to talk back.

But sure, lets pretend it's a thing that isn't false for a moment.
You basically look to use anyone to butter up to to jump on a wagon. You never even engaged with S_S after your supposed scum read on him from the beginning. You dropped any scum read that didn't pan out and let others fight while doing nothing to continue it. You were willing to vote a player you called town based on them having a similar mind set but one read that you disagreed with was a good enough reason to be "convinced" to vote them.
You basically are floating by with no really push on anyone most of this game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: farside22

Take that vote off

[farside22]

? I put farside/votato/maybe eyestott as my latest theory based on D2 wagons

Oh and you can explain why votato and I look like scum together with all my pushing on him day 1.
*eats popcorn*

[Albert B. Rampage]

Lilith is scum guys. Can we end today please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

activity is dropping like the Dow Jones because don wasn't ready for a hammer

[lilith2013]

? I put farside/votato/maybe eyestott as my latest theory based on D2 wagons

Youre not voting, pushing, or building cases on them or trying to read them at all

tbh when I posted that I thought I was at L-1 and was just trying to get out a final theory before someone hammered me. Like I said, I'm going to reread and will post more after

I responded to a bunch of Vecna posts explaining why I was scumreading him and also responding to his case post on me and never got a response

Farside has been announcing how strongly she scumreads me but hasn’t actually engaged with me at all since D1. Like her posts about scumreading me are directed towards other people and she’s not actually talking to me. In all of her other pushes this game she has had back and forths with the person she was pushing but she’s barely spoken to me D2 even though I’m apparently her strongest scumread.

And every time I engage with you, some how you magically aren't here to talk back.

Can you show me where you tried to engage with me that I didn't respond? Afaik I have responded to every post you have made directed to me

But sure, lets pretend it's a thing that isn't false for a moment.
You basically look to use anyone to butter up to to jump on a wagon. You never even engaged with S_S after your supposed scum read on him from the beginning.

Not true - I tried to articulate later why I was scumreading him and after that he bumped into my null pile because he started doing some of the things I would expect from him as town.

You dropped any scum read that didn't pan out and let others fight while doing nothing to continue it. You were willing to vote a player you called town based on them having a similar mind set but one read that you disagreed with was a good enough reason to be "convinced" to vote them.

Already said this was because you were basically null but you were on the DC wagon

You basically are floating by with no really push on anyone most of this game.

I'll be the first to admit I'm bad at this game, but I feel like I started a lot of the wagons D1...

? I put farside/votato/maybe eyestott as my latest theory based on D2 wagons

Oh and you can explain why votato and I look like scum together with all my pushing on him day 1.
*eats popcorn*

you were the one who sheeped me onto votato wagon....
you defended him from chkflip at the beginning of the game until you could no longer use the defense "he's a newb"
the two of you joined both wagons D2 but were not the first ones on them
I'm sure I can find other stuff if I reread your ISO

pedit: alright whatever. Apparently I don't even get a chance to reread the game and try to change your mind. If I'm going to be lynched regardless then just do it now before I force myself to reread 120 pages

[Albert B. Rampage]

pedit: alright whatever. Apparently I don't even get a chance to reread the game and try to change your mind. If I'm going to be lynched regardless then just do it now before I force myself to reread 120 pages

We wont lynch you until you get your thoughts out. You may start when ready

[lilith2013]

Lilith is scum guys. Can we end today please.

Then why say this?

[lilith2013]

Sounds like you've made up your mind

[Albert B. Rampage]

Lilith is scum guys. Can we end today please.

Then why say this?

Sounds like you've made up your mind

Farside and I are loud but we are just 2 voices among many.

If you're town you deserve to be heard.

I won't silence a woman, my name isn't Joe Biden.

[chkflip]

Take that vote off

When I'm good and ready.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Take that vote off

When I'm good and ready.

Your mom called and said supper was ready.

[votato]

fwiw: the SS kill actually seems a bit strange. SS wasnt widely townread was he? that suggests that maybe he saw something he shouldnt have. his townreads were: farside, lilith (although lilith was just based on the fact that she recruited him to play and he didnt think shed immediately tunnel him). his scumreads were: adijkuhsatliuga. is that worth reading into?

[votato]

as for FB, he scumread maria and aiuathiauh, and thought lilith and vecna couldnt be a scumpair. Not sure what he thought about me, on at least one occasion he was ok with a wagon on me. he had townreads on everyone who died.

[MariaR]

Hopefully will post more tomorrow I feel kinda sick atm

[farside22]

Not going to do a large quote wall war here.
I hammered and tunnelled votato to death and ignoring all that just to claim you (lilth) started it, is not exactly a point in favor of me scum with him.
If i seriously need to quite the number of time lilth called me town this game to dispute her null comment let me know.

[farside22]

Those with reading issue

Already said this was because you were basically null but you were on the DC wagon

That was a comment lilith just said. Now go back to end of day 1 and see how many times she says town read on me but doesnt like my vote on DC and could be convinced to vote me.

[lilith2013]

Not going to do a large quote wall war here.
I hammered and tunnelled votato to death and ignoring all that just to claim you (lilth) started it, is not exactly a point in favor of me scum with him.

you dropped it around the time that other wagons started forming, I'm saying it's not out of the question for that to be a SvS since it stopped so suddenly

If i seriously need to quite the number of time lilth called me town this game to dispute her null comment let me know.

So now it's scummy for reads to change? I've already explained myself to death on why this happened

Those with reading issue

Already said this was because you were basically null but you were on the DC wagon

That was a comment lilith just said. Now go back to end of day 1 and see how many times she says town read on me but doesnt like my vote on DC and could be convinced to vote me.

By the time I was saying I didn't like your vote on the wagon, I was also already saying you were no longer a townread. Those things aren't contradictory.

I will happily quote myself all day long so people can see you are misrepping my reads and my supposed lack of engagement with you.

I didn’t say she dropped in my reads due to tunneling but rather due to our thought processes no longer lining up, when her thoughts mirroring mine was the whole reason I was townreading her in the first place. I realized it when she started tunneling DC but I already said I think tunneling itself is just her playstyle.

Can you explain why you think I’m fencesitting? I feel like I’ve been clear that I’m not townreading you anymore because my reason for townreading you is gone.

she would love to know about our scum read on each other.

?? I’m trying to engage so I can sort both of you. How is that scummy?

Like I feel like I’m trying to be transparent about my thought processes and why my reads are changing and you call me fencesitty for it.
I try to ask questions so I can see your responses and get a better idea of how to sort both of you and you call me scummy for it.

????

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

Also I don’t think it’s totally out of left field that your reaction to DC being completely opposite of mine caused me to question why I was townreading you and subsequently whether I should townread you.

Spoiler: spoiling this farside post because it’s long

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

Wow that was a wild read..

I don’t think DC is scum. His reactions, while not necessarily pro-town, seem genuinely frustrated and I think I would react similarly to being deathtunneled (and I think I have in the past.... like you don’t react to being deathtunneled with patience and grace unless you’re a saint, you’re obviously going to be upset about it and people who are using his reaction as a reason to scumread him are probably not thinking about how they would react to being deathtunneled or are scum).

Out of the people on the DC wagon (ABD, chkflip, vecna, farside, votato) I think there has to be 1+ scum.
- I don’t know what my ABR read is anymore because he’s being weirdly reasonable at some points but then really deathtunnely at other points.
- I think chkflip/vecna/votato votes seem opportunistic like they see ABR start to deathtunnel and go “ooh easy mislynch, I just have to let ABR do the work.”

• Votato in particular supposedly doesn’t have info on site meta and I think should have questioned the sudden change in ABR more, but at least was scumreading DC prior to ABR’s push.
  
• Chkflip was still scumreading votato until ABR started pushing and then was apparently totally fine with votato’s slot being on the same wagon as him and stopped pushing votato completely.
  
• Vecna sheeps the wagon even though he thought DC vs ABR was TvT. And there’s a weird transition back and forth in his earlier posts from being really friendly with ABR and then suspicious of him like he doesn’t want to come across as having too strong of a townread. So out of these 3 I think it might be vecna or chkflip.

- farside doesn’t want to listen to anything DC says and unfortunately I’m starting to agree with votato here that once she decides a slot is scummy she just tunnels it as if it’s confscum, which to some extent she said herself is her playstyle. The only person she didn’t do this to is ABR - why? Claims it’s because “meta” and she reread the thread but she didn’t do that for anyone else she was tunneling afaik.

I’m still good with a maria wagon

. Need to reread cakes but I’ve been townreading him up to now. Would also be down for a vecna or chkflip wagon and could be convinced on a farside vote.

yeah not 7, 6. your scumpool seems to be me, vecna, chkflip, maria, farside, ABR?

also you're OK with maria yet youre defending her and saying shes town?

Uhhh...... as I stated in my last paragraph, current lynchpool is maria, vecna, chkflip, a

nd could be convinced on farside

. Where are you seeing ABR or you in that paragraph?

I was actually questioning ABR’s reasoning which I thought was faulty logic. The ABR post may have flipped my maria read

See someone that slips in a town read to hey convince me farside is scum.
This is exactly what I see coming from a scum mind set more then town. The reason I was more suspicious of this is that ABR is a town read. But I'm curious why all you ever say is the same mind set as me, over and over as a town tell.

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

I removed maria from my top lynchpool already
You’re also not in my top lynchpool
Could I be convinced to vote either? Yes, but currently I’m not prepared to.
I’m not saying I have the game solved at all and I don’t try to pin down a whole team or whatever and I’m also not even saying you’re both scum

The bold above contradicts the statement made.
You have made another post that give you free reign to ride either side of the wagon. The "well she's not town, but I don't scum read her so I'm fine with that wagon"
That is many more classic line of you not figuring players out but trying to be ambious as possible in your words.

See and when I look at the meta for lilith she doesn't solely read a player as town just for being in sync with her. Like I searched many different places and I couldn't find a time that she put that as a main reason to town read someone.
(and yes that is within the rules chkflip, you can meta search a player).
So no I'm no longer sold on lilith as town. I don't see the tides changing. I don't think Cakez is scum but I don't see enough time to change this wagon around.
Sorry cakez, ABR said he would shoot venca and I can see with lilith them being scum together especially since they have barely interacted together so you are basically the goat in this game.

I don’t think you’re even reading my posts....... when I said I could be convinced to vote for you I was talking about there being 1+ scum on the DC wagon and that was my main point in the post you quoted. I don’t think it’s contradictory of me to say you’re not a scumread and also not a townread so therefore I could be convinced to vote you since you were on the wagon I think has scum.

[lilith2013]

Please tell me where I said I'm townreading you but could vote you at the same time.

[lilith2013]

Okay in retrospect I wasn't as clear as I thought I was about no longer townreading you when I said I could be convinced to vote you. By the time I posted 1882 I was no longer townreading you though.

[farside22]

Lilith what's making you change your mind on Farside when she was your top townread?
Also I don't suppose I'm the one who can convince you no?~

The reason she was my top townread was because I felt like her posts were incredibly in tune with my own thoughts. With her joining the DC wagon and refusing to see DC as possibly town, I no longer feel that way - I mean the entire time I was reading her posts @ DC I was just shocked at how strong her confbias was. In retrospect she had been confbiasing previously on other slots, but at those times I was agreeing with her arguments and now I’m not. Is that a dumb way to read someone? Idk

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

In a world with farside town I think my main scumreads would be:

Lilith: I've already explained how I think some of her emotions were planned/overblown you can go back and look at the case for that so I'll leave that part out. I think her taking the sidelines during the whole ABR/Don situation was her trying to fan the flames without getting involved. Her top townread farside suddenly goes to 'yeah I could vote her' while that in and of itself isn't so bad, her reasoning is because farside is tunneling people? Something her meta is known for that Lilth already knows about. Bare in mind they were basically 2 peas in a pod at one point. This is after me and Don start putting a little heat on her as well.

Vecna: I think Vecna has had a lot of his reads flip flop with bare minimum follow up. He questions Cakez recently on why Cakez is townreading him when this is 'one of his more scummy games' Along with the fact his tone changed when he was under pressure for a vote like he was appealing to Don. He got this wrong when I talked to him, but when I corrected him he went with the same excuse of 'interpret it how you want' I can also throw in some useless shading but you get the point.

After that? I'd look in: (Firebringer/Iconeum/votato) everyone else I have some degree of reason to townread.

This mischaracterizes my read on farside - I didn’t say she dropped in my reads due to tunneling but rather due to our thought processes no longer lining up, when her thoughts mirroring mine was the whole reason I was townreading her in the first place. I realized it when she started tunneling DC but I already said I think tunneling itself is just her playstyle.

In a world with farside town I think my main scumreads would be:

Lilith: I've already explained how I think some of her emotions were planned/overblown you can go back and look at the case for that so I'll leave that part out. I think her taking the sidelines during the whole ABR/Don situation was her trying to fan the flames without getting involved. Her top townread farside suddenly goes to 'yeah I could vote her' while that in and of itself isn't so bad, her reasoning is because farside is tunneling people? Something her meta is known for that Lilth already knows about. Bare in mind they were basically 2 peas in a pod at one point. This is after me and Don start putting a little heat on her as well.

Vecna: I think Vecna has had a lot of his reads flip flop with bare minimum follow up. He questions Cakez recently on why Cakez is townreading him when this is 'one of his more scummy games' Along with the fact his tone changed when he was under pressure for a vote like he was appealing to Don. He got this wrong when I talked to him, but when I corrected him he went with the same excuse of 'interpret it how you want' I can also throw in some useless shading but you get the point.

After that? I'd look in: (Firebringer/Iconeum/votato) everyone else I have some degree of reason to townread.

This mischaracterizes my read on farside - I didn’t say she dropped in my reads due to tunneling but rather due to our thought processes no longer lining up, when her thoughts mirroring mine was the whole reason I was townreading her in the first place. I realized it when she started tunneling DC but I already said I think tunneling itself is just her playstyle.

I am doing my best to get this game back on a level of working together with fighting or backlash.
I know my reads are all over. I get tunnel, i move, i tunnel, i get bitchy.
I accept that, i appologize, but if we can consoliate our reads we could lynch scum.

So i read maria post and i would go with venca/knight.
I can conceed its possible lilth was buddying me as scum and im not seeing it that way.
Idk

Epwop:
Fire who are you scum reading.

Are you still scumreading maria?

No.
I can explain if you want.

Yes please

Also lil who are your top 2 scum reads?

I’ve been flip flopping on maria in my head. Like I disagree with a lot of stuff she says but I think maybe she just believes it and is wrong. Her frustration about not being able to engage with you also felt genuine. So I guess chkflip and vecna?

both post are fence sitting.
Also how can you see both maria and i as scum together with all the fighting between us?

I mean someone else that is not maria or venca can tell me if I'm wrong about those post from Lilith.
I don't see her taking a stand and I see her leaving options for both me and maria scum but then saying she see's we could be town but then willing to vote either of us.
If I'm wrong, some one tell me why.

I removed maria from my top lynchpool already
You’re also not in my top lynchpool
Could I be convinced to vote either? Yes, but currently I’m not prepared to.
I’m not saying I have the game solved at all and I don’t try to pin down a whole team or whatever and I’m also not even saying you’re both scum

I also am not sure where you see that I’m scumreading you because I’m pretty sure I just said you dropped in my townreads

Also I don’t think it’s totally out of left field that your reaction to DC being completely opposite of mine caused me to question why I was townreading you and subsequently whether I should townread you.

There is a lot her, but it just reinterates what i said at the end of day 1. Lilith read was based on one vote.
She fence sat between 2 players. Then says she isnt scum reading either Maria or me but would lynch either.
She keeps saying she is transparent but her town read is basically disolved once others scum read me. So yes it reads fake for fake reads.

[farside22]

Her post basically wanting her cake and eating it without saying she wants cake

[lilith2013]

Who was scumreading you at the time? I don’t recall anyone else scumreading you other than maybe votato but that started before the ABR stuff

[lilith2013]

Then says she isnt scum reading either Maria or me but would lynch either.

How is this different from you saying “these are the people I have no read or scum read on” and lynching within those?

[farside22]

you dropped it around the time that other wagons started forming, I'm saying it's not out of the question for that to be a SvS since it stopped so suddenly

Thats a joje right? How many times did players call me out for tunneling votato? Is that seriously your best answer?

Your reasons for a sudden turn was crap. And no you had maria and Dc both scum reading me at that time.