Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over

[clidd]

This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)

Yet another page 1 hammer opportunity wasted.

This is strange coming from you, Luciano. In the games in which we participated together, your instance at the beginning of D1 was always more logical and pragmatic. This sudden change with comic content is not something that the profile of your playstyle suggests, at least as far as I can see.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

[clidd]

That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.

UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.

I'm waiting for your towntell.

[clidd]

Another observation: the purpose of your post did not seem to clarify a misunderstanding, but to reverse the positions to make an attack. This is a classic scum mentality and you probably know that.

[clidd]

That's unequivocally the worst interpretation of my interaction with Clidd possible. Scum-reading me for being comic in my opening, when he's seen me be comic in my opening before, is scummy.

Why are you assuming I have a scumread on you ? the image you gave in our past games is much more logical than joking with votes on a playerlist that you don't know (besides Hajimari). What triggered an *alert*, in my opinion, was the way you reacted to that, which would be totally different from the Town!Luciano perspective that I imagine.

[clidd]

That's unequivocally the worst interpretation of my interaction with Clidd possible. Scum-reading me for being comic in my opening, when he's seen me be comic in my opening before, is scummy.

Why are you assuming I have a scumread on you ?

the image you gave in our past games is much more logical than joking with votes on a playerlist that you don't know (besides Hajimari). What triggered an *alert*, in my opinion, was the way you reacted to that, which would be totally different from the Town!Luciano perspective that I imagine.

This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)

Yet another page 1 hammer opportunity wasted.

This is strange coming from you, Luciano. In the games in which we participated together, your instance at the beginning of D1 was always more logical and pragmatic.

This sudden change with comic content is not something that the profile of your playstyle suggests

, at least as far as I can see.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Ok, and where am I saying that I have you as scumread ?

[clidd]

UNVOTE: LuckyLuciano

[clidd]

@Clidd, Why did you unvote me?

@Zulfy, it's not frustration. I copied my town game for a reason. That reason will be revealed later in the game. At that point you will see clear town motivation for it. If you want to argue that it's scum motivated at that point, go for it. The only thing I'm frustrated about is your clear inability to think critically.

I believe that Scum!Luciano would have worked more in an argumentative sense. The use of irony in this context is an indication of interpretative debauchery of my post, which you probably see as too absurd to be true, which alludes to a mentality of

"this guy is an idiot"

, which I observe more often coming town alignment than necessarily scum. And because I don't want to (again) enter a possible 1v1 with you that will only waste time and cognitive energy on both sides.

[clidd]

If you are trolling you are doing a good job.

This post ^

[clidd]

Clidd, anyone who disagrees with anyone is called an idiot. Genuinely or not. It's not alignment indicative.

I expressed myself badly, I meant: I don't think that, in the experience I have with Luciano, he would try to counter a question or argument with irony as scum. But yes, you are right that this is NAI in most cases.

[clidd]

Oh wait Clidd no, I misread your post just now. Post 51 is an answer to 48. Obviously.

Look, you're asking a guy why he thinks you scumread him, when you're voting him. What other sort of reaction could you expect?

It was just a single vote, I expected him to react like

"man, you're wrong because ..."

and then we would talk until I was convinced that he is town. But the way he approached that on posts 32~36 seemed like an overreaction, almost as if I had put him on L-1.

[clidd]

Oh wait Clidd no, I misread your post just now. Post 51 is an answer to 48. Obviously.

Look, you're asking a guy why he thinks you scumread him, when you're voting him. What other sort of reaction could you expect?

It was just a single vote, I expected him to react like

"man, you're wrong because ..."

and then we would talk until I was convinced that he is town. But the way he approached that on posts 32~36 seemed like an overreaction, almost as if I had put him on L-1.

So you either talk it through until you think he's town, or he responds irreverently (as he did) and it also makes you think he's town. Is there any case where you might consider him scum?

I would consider the slot scum if he arguably prolonged his meta defense without showing any emotional traits. Because if he's caught on D1 as scum, it would make more sense for him to stay calm and walk the path out of my FoS, emulating Town!Luciano in the logical sense (as I mentioned earlier), as he is a competent player to do that. Now, being frustrated with you and disengaging by the votes seems to me to be something completely opposite to the scenario that I imagine Scum!Luciano acting, as it demonstrates perceptible levels of suspicion that would be obvious and would probably leverage a wagon on him.

[clidd]

Evidently, I am speculating according to my personal interpretation of him, so it is very likely that you will disagree with me. But I don't think it's so healthy to press his slot right now, because I feel it will be more beneficial if he has space to work with us in building reads, at least until we can evaluate him better, assuming he will live the transition from D1~D2 .

[clidd]

At the moment, I am concerned about this pool: {Persivul, Hoctac, Umlaut}, I would like the opinion of someone who knows/has played with them.

[clidd]

Farside, do you see any features that catch your eye in Persival's scum/town game or does he always play to the same standard ?

[clidd]

It's not about being reactionary - it's about what Lucky is reacting against.

At this point it has been well-established that clidd's initial claim about Lucky's early play wasn't accurate. Lucky reacted against that.
The question now is, was that reaction from Lucky-town who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to an incorrect conclusion, or was it from Lucky-scum who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to a

correct

conclusion?
I believe the evidence makes the latter likely. He's going 'what? this looks just like my town game!' That level of awareness of how you're playing like your town game would definitely come from scum. It wouldn't necessarily happen if one were town. Hence, I think leaves Lucky as >rand scum for the time being.

Hum, I don't think I used bad reasoning to arrive at the inference I used to observe Luciano's attitude. Regarding his reaction, I think there may be an external factor that is damaging his mood about being suspected, which may have caused frustration and temporary detachment from the topic. But, of course, I do not rule out the possibility that he may be scum, but evaluating what we saw in isolation, I believe that we need more resolutive engagement from him with the game before we try to distinguish if, in fact, there was a malicious intention during the period in which he defended himself.

[clidd]

Umlaut is scummy for trying to again redirect attention back on me for attacking his scum buddy. Decent odds of scum.

clidd is very scummy for saying his concerned pool is 2 main wagons, and ME - which is unacceptable. Likely scum.

Are you N_M alt ?

[clidd]

VOTE: Persivul

Happy to bookend this day.

Umlaut already trying to derail the quickly growing wagon on his scum buddy.

Page 1 solve: Persivul + Umlaut

Persivul is narrow-minded. SCUM is narrow-minded.

Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.

Persivul is still a scummy boy.

I still don't understand your tunnel on Persivul. You are forcing a character there.

[clidd]

VOTE: lucky
Hate his page 2

Clidd is trying way too hard

Actually, I haven't even come close to trying yet lol.

[clidd]

I'll follow this for a while:

VOTE: Hoctac

[clidd]

Farside, do you see any features that catch your eye in Persival's scum/town game or does he always play to the same standard ?

Most current game is ongoing. Game before that was 2 years ago. I cant say im a fan of his thought process on hotoc and i dont recall how he felt about that in the past.
I do remember it was a peeve of some plays in the past when player fake claim shit.

Well, it would be more interesting with recent games, but I appreciate the help. I'll take a look at his meta when I have more time available.

[clidd]

Now, back to the subject of post 83: Hoctac, why do you think Persival is scum ?

I assume you have some experience with him in your main account by the way you spoke.

[clidd]

hoctac related to Hectic?

I've played with Hectic, I don't think he would create a character like Hoctac. Very sporadic to offer fun to him.

[clidd]

Actually I think a lot of what looks off to me about Clidd is just his writing style, but 76 really does seem like "trying too hard" even taking that into account.

People tell me that, but honestly I don't see anything strange when I re-read my posts.

[clidd]

I would try to explain it, but it's difficult to explain and honestly kind of off-topic since the whole point is that it's NAI. I'm more interested in talking about who you think is likely scum, because aside from maybe Lucky I have no idea.

English is my third language, so I don't know if that influences your judgment. I'm currently questioning Hoctac for his SR inconsistency, and I believe I have an SL on the slot.

[clidd]

If I were to have a ranking of undeveloped quick impressions, I would say:

[LuckyLuciano] [Zulfy]

[Atarashi Hajimari] [SirCakez] [farside22] [Klick]

[Persivul] [Umlaut]
[valoneast] [Reundo] [Ragman Saul Rima]

[Hoctac]

Spoiler:

Green:

Good impressions.

Yellow:

Average impressions.

Orange:

Bad impressions/insufficient content.

Red:

Scummy impressions.

[clidd]

In 2~3 hours I'll be home.

[clidd]

I'm back.

[clidd]

clidd putting me at the bottom of his readslist is a clear sign of OMGUS - primarily exhibited by those with nefarious tools hidden in their back garden.

Ircher reading the read but only posting "reserved" fluff is also a bad sign. Likely scum.

No, it would be OMGUS if you had voted for me first and, in response, I had voted for you without contextualizing my FoS. This also mischaracterizes your garden allusion.

My Persivul read is airtight. He jokingly hand-waived a wagon on him - bad sign.
He latched onto something he could push via policy (me) to look townie - stop sign.
He tried to defuse my read on him later - u turn sign.

You're trying to trap me into giving a response you can spin as scummy no matter what I say.

But fine, I will indulge you: I believe I already answered your question in 110. He tried not to look serious about a RVS wagon on him and then suddenly turned serious on me.

Umlaut is opportunistic scum taking advantage of a quickly growing wagon. You can see how the tide will turn and want to be on early, huh? I see right through you, Laut.

I don't do townreads. Everyone is varying degrees of scum. You are 60° scum which isn't too bad, but you have room for improvement.

His point on Lucky replicating town-meta was legit, and pointing out his frustration shouldn't be seen as town-indicative. He's 20° scum.

Retreated back to your scum PT to hide, have you?? Very well; this discussion is terminated.

Degrees go up to 360. You are currently at 110°.

The game is cracking wide open here. I see several factions forming around me.

On one side are the bandits of Persivul + Umlaut + Klick. They are led by the False King, who hails insults at my good name and honest doctoring profession.

On my other side are the raiders of Lucky + farside + Atarashi. They attack all attackers, defending their captain, Lucky.

Finally we have the rogue agents, clidd, and SirCakez. They seem on the prowl as neutral factions, waiting for their time to strike when the opportunity presents itself.

I am surrounded on All Sides.

Even filtering the content above, I had difficulty understanding your reasoning ^

I would like a more *clean* explanation, without this extremist view of

''

I don't do townreads. Everyone is varying degrees of scum

''

. It is not in my interest to argue with a lunatic, so please police yourself.

[clidd]

hoctac related to Hectic?

I'm like 98% sure Hoctac is just Hectic. New obvious alt player, same personality, similar name.

I would be surprised if that were true, lol.

[clidd]

clidd, I'm trying my best here. I never claimed to be the best scumhunter.

It is not in my interest to argue with a lunatic, so please police yourself.

This speaks volumes to me, and makes me realise I may be taking a faulty approach. From here onward, everyone will be varying levels of town. "Scum" is a very harsh and rude word anyway, and I apologise to anyone I harmed or offended by using it.

You are 170° town, clidd.

Wait.. Are you Hectic's alt ?

Spoiler:

If you aren't, ignore the spoiler.

Well, I didn't feel offended by the term, but I believe that the method you were using had a hidden purpose (dispersion of attention) and would not be effective in finding out who is scum. Considering that you noticed the annoyance on my post 203 and chose to invert the indexes that you would be working from here on, I am inclined to theorize that you tried to remain in the character but your conscience ended up weighing due to the collective complaints about your slot, as they do not reflect the real potential of your reasoning, which suggests a towny instance in my opinion. I don't see Scum!Hoctac leaving his acting to apologize and change the evaluation method. I feel that you are a much better player than you appear to be. However, I am still a little suspicious of your read about Persival, but I am satisfied with your honesty now.

UNVOTE: Hoctac

[clidd]

Hoctac, if you can give me a quick summary of your read on Persival, with the mentality of now, it would help a lot.

[clidd]

Another observation: the purpose of your post did not seem to clarify a misunderstanding, but to reverse the positions to make an attack. This is a classic scum mentality and you probably know that.

Didn't clarify a misunderstanding? He linked to a game you were both in, in which he was goofing around early, thus refuting your point. He ALSO made an attack, but there's nothing wrong with attacking someone who just made a false charge.

Not liking clidd.

There is a more personal context to the game that he mentioned, but I do not intend to discuss it here.

UNVOTE: LuckyLuciano

Why?

Posts 51~53.

Farside, do you see any features that catch your eye in Persival's scum/town game or does he always play to the same standard ?

I play differently each game, according to my mood and the playerlist. Farside is a good player, but she's not particularly good at reading me. She's overly paranoid and scum reads me at the drop of a hat.

So we are similar in switching styles from one game to the other, but my mood is usually more peculiar.

Hum, I don't think I used bad reasoning to arrive at the inference I used to observe Luciano's attitude. Regarding his reaction, I think there may be an external factor that is damaging his mood about being suspected, which may have caused frustration and temporary detachment from the topic. But, of course, I do not rule out the possibility that he may be scum, but evaluating what we saw in isolation, I believe that we need more resolutive engagement from him with the game before we try to distinguish if, in fact, there was a malicious intention during the period in which he defended himself.

WTF when did mafia become law school?

Is this a polite debauchery ?

Well, it would be more interesting with recent games, but I appreciate the help. I'll take a look at his meta when I have more time available.

Most of my recent meta is under Rabid Schnauzer. I only switched back to Persivul when farside came back.

''Rabid''

is familiar, I think we've played together at some point. But the fact that I don't remember in detail is probably an indication that it was a semi-deleted negative experience from my memories.

[clidd]

I liked the way Reundo described his thoughts on post 190, I believe he did a good read on the game before posting. I am comfortable having his slot with us at the moment.

I'll press this:

VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

L-2

[clidd]

Note¹: Luciano, I would appreciate if you came back to the game. I don't think you're scum but there is a wagon on you.

Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.

Note³: I rescued from my memory now, Persival, I played with you on Mini Normal 2122, but I was replaced due to my dissatisfaction with the game state.

( viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82337 )

[clidd]

I am not Hectic, clidd. I thank you for removing the vote. It's relieved an immense amount of pressure, and I hope we can continue to work together.

Spoiler:

VOTE: persivul
scumlord

Cakez, are you the person I had an epic mylo 1v1 with? I can't remember for sure.

Town. Making idle chatter while a wagon's on him. Because he has nothing to hide and is innocent.

VOTE: Persivul
Happy to bookend this day.

Fastest L-2 in history maybe?

Towny. Natural and unworried about an early L-2.

VOTE: Hoctac

I hate that shit.

Towning. He's pushing a possible doc. Scum wouldn't be the first to do this so openly.

VOTE: Hoctac

I hate that shit.

What shit do you hate exactly?

Goofing around about claims.

Townity. Blunt and to the point. Doesn't need to over-justify himself.

And you think that's alignment-indicative, and a person who goofs around about claims on page 1 is more likely to be scum?

No, but I think it's anti-town and I'd PL it D1 no problem. Just can't get other people on board. LAL is dead.

TOWN. Openly admitting he's vanity wagoning a policy lynch. It's scummy which is why he's not scum for openly pursuing it.

Persivul is narrow-minded. SCUM is narrow-minded.

I know as scum I LOVE it when someone's pulling that shit. It's really easy to manipulate in later game.

tOwN. A fair point.

I cant say im a fan of his thought process on hotoc and i dont recall how he felt about that in the past.
I do remember it was a peeve of some plays in the past when player fake claim shit.

I have a long history of being against fake claiming.

Townlord. People don't understand his thought process. He calmly explains.

My Persivul read is airtight. He jokingly hand-waived a wagon on him - bad sign.

Oh do tell, what's the town way to respond to a page 1 L-2 wagon?

So town. "do tell" implies he can't believe what he's hearing. He doesn't think he's at fault whatsoever, since he knows he has a green PM and therefore can't be.

He tried not to look serious about a RVS wagon on him and then suddenly turned serious on me.

OK, explain what I was supposed to do between not taking a RVS wagon seriously, and then posting seriously? What kind of transition do you require there from town?

TOWN. He's not OMGUSing me or attacking all attackers. He's rationally asking me to explain my thought process, so that he can better understand. Constructive. Not destructive.

I hope that's enough to show what I mean.

I'm a little confused by your impressions, but at least I can sympathize with the process in which you arrived at them, although I don't fully agree. Thank you.

[clidd]

Ragman, I need you to describe your impressions on players in addition to your scumreads. I can't Infer anything from your post 221.

[clidd]

Yo, what up?

Welcome to your second game in a year.

[clidd]

Are you town this time, Brass ?

[clidd]

Are you town this time, Brass ?

I'm a serial killer. It's my dream role.

I mean, yes, I am town.

[clidd]

Hum, eh.. Are you ok with a BoP on your slot ?

[clidd]

Hum, eh.. Are you ok with a BoP on your slot ?

Are you saying I'm good and if I don't find the scum, I must be scum?

If so, absolutely! I'm a God who's plan has already started... Just waiting for those hands to raise...

I had fun watching you in our past game because of the tone of your playstyle, but I think I'm going to interact more seriously with you here until I'm more sure of your alignment.

[clidd]

The *BoP* is basically a

"you have space to play, so I hope to count on your help"

.

[clidd]

I'll take a better look at post 254 when I arrive at home. (2~3 hours)

Pedit: I already imagine what your post will be like.

[clidd]

I'm back, reading soon.

[clidd]

Spoiler: Lucky-Clidd-Zulfy Interaction

This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)

Yet another page 1 hammer opportunity wasted.

This is strange coming from you, Luciano. In the games in which we participated together, your instance at the beginning of D1 was always more logical and pragmatic. This sudden change with comic content is not something that the profile of your playstyle suggests, at least as far as I can see.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

This immediately threw me off because my first few posts were all a deliberate attempt to replicate one of my town openings. As I've mentioned before, I will explain

why

I chose this approach to the game when it becomes relevant. Just note for now that I wasn't looking to play

similar

to that game in my opening, but intentionally wanted to

replicate it post-by-post

. That's about as much of an explanation of my actions as is necessary at this point. Anywho, Clidd's reaction to my opening wasn't one that I expected from him, precisely because he has seen me do the exact things he's questioning. It's immediately obvious that he's faking an attack on me and I find that suspect, hence,

That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.

UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.

This post from Clidd indicated to me, at first, that I haven't reacted in a way that I normally would as town,

I'm waiting for your towntell.

Upon rereading, I can see it also could be interpreted to mean that he's performing a reaction test and hasn't gotten sufficient data from my response. I'm not sure how I feel about this interpretation, however, as I don't remember Clidd being a reaction-test sort of player in my previous encounters with him. I think my initial interpretation of his post goes more in line with his next post,

Another observation: the purpose of your post did not seem to clarify a misunderstanding, but to reverse the positions to make an attack. This is a classic scum mentality and you probably know that.

The presumption that I'm coming from a scum mindset doesn't cohere to the neutral starting point of a reaction test performed in good faith. It's also a misrep of what I did, hence my hyperbolic response,

I have literally mirrored my opening to a game we both played in, where I was town, nearly post-by-post. You are scumreading me for doing literally the same thing you have seen me do before, as town. I was going to label this move, "calling out a player making up a reason to attack me that they know to be false". I supposed I will take you input into consideration, as "Advanced OMGUS" rolls off the tongue slightly better.

I wasn't attacking Clidd for attacking me. I was attacking Clidd for attacking me on pretenses he knows to be false.

Zulfy comes in at this point and takes the worst stance possible, in that it misses every important nuance of my interaction with Clidd,

You're copying your town game so scum-reading you is scum?

This three-way interaction ends with me taking a break from the game, Zulfy disappearing after illustrating that all he really cared about was irritating me, and Clidd retracting and claiming he was intentionally misrepping me to analyze my reaction. This is pretty much where I'm at and everything else is going to be me catching up.

Spoiler: Klick's #59

Zulfy is making sense.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Clidd's content is good so far, leaning town there.

Initially, I agreed with some of the other posts that this appears opportunistic / scummy,

scum reads on valoneast for the trying to play newb card, klick following zulfy reads as scum too.
I don't know whether to take hotoc seriously or not.

I'm undecided about clidd

vote: klick

Coming from the perspective of knowing Lucky for years outside of Mafia, his frustration reads to me as null-leaning town. He doesn't reach to insulting people unless theres something outside of the game that's bothering him.

Klick's push seems pretty opportunistic though.

VOTE: klick

Zulfy is making sense.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Clidd's content is good so far, leaning town there.

Yucky post.

However, I think that Klick's post makes a lost more sense when put into context through some of his later posts. In particular,

Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.

On their own, no.
Scum definitely hate being caught for the wrong reasons, though.

It's not about being reactionary - it's about what Lucky is reacting against.

At this point it has been well-established that clidd's initial claim about Lucky's early play wasn't accurate. Lucky reacted against that.
The question now is, was that reaction from Lucky-town who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to an incorrect conclusion, or was it from Lucky-scum who knows clidd used bad reasoning to come to a

correct

conclusion?
I believe the evidence makes the latter likely. He's going 'what? this looks just like my town game!' That level of awareness of how you're playing like your town game would definitely come from scum. It wouldn't necessarily happen if one were town. Hence, I think leaves Lucky as >rand scum for the time being.

I think that the conclusions Klick arrives at are reasonable when I take into account that Klick's starting point is wrong. Most importantly, (1) I get defensive whenever I think a push against me is utter bullshit, as both alignments. (2) He's not wrong in that the level of awareness I've shown of my town game would be present if I'm scum. What he's missing is that there's town motive for that level of awareness, and I think that deliberately copying my own game post-by-post should show that I'm not looking to mimic a town mindset, but that there's something intentional going on behind the scenes. Klick's only experience with me was a brief replacing in at the end of D1 of one of my first game's onsite, and he quickly died N1. I'm not sure that Klick is aware that I have played mafia for nearly a decade offsite and how intentional most of what I do is. I understand how he reaches his conclusions not knowing that.

I think the way Klick left my wagon supports the idea that he knows he is making a lot of assumptions about my play, and that they could be wrong,

'Opportunistic' is a fun buzzword, especially early-game. I appreciate the insight on Lucky, though.
VOTE: Umlaut

I also really like that Umlaut essentially sees Klick's post the same way that I did, especially with how the path of least resistance is to paint Klick as scummy for their entrance to my wagon. Keep in mind that at the time of the following post, Cakez is trying to get Farside to help sort Klick,

Er, was going to say: I'm not sure I buy this case but I buy it as coming from town.

The problem I'm having is trying to cohere with his later scumreads on me. So he doesn't buy Klick's case, but believes I'm scum for different reasons, which he doesn't think are worth introducing to the discussion (98, 104, 107, 125

Spoiler: SirCakez' #82

VOTE: lucky
Hate his page 2

Clidd is trying way too hard

I'm starting a spoiler here because I feel that people should be suspicious of this post for the same reason they were suspicious of Klick's.

I don't like Clidd's response,

Actually, I haven't even come close to trying yet lol.

It feels to me like Clidd tried really hard to force a read through his reaction test, and then backed off when it failed. I agree with Cakez here and don't like (1) Clidd acting like he wasn't tryharding, and (2) Clidd saying "lol" which is immensely out of character.

VOTE: lucky
Hate his page 2

Clidd is trying way too hard

VOTE: cakez

I like this post, as it shows consistency with how Farside reacted to Klick doing the same thing earlier that Cakez is here.

Spoiler: We're back to talking about my opening

I don't know Luciano's metagame, so I'm not convinced by clidd's argument.
I don't have a problem with #36, but #48 seems off.

Luciano, you are copying a comical approach to RVS for a reason that will be revealed later, and will show clear town motivation?
The fact that you were willingly repeating town posts and then covering up by saying you have reasons which will later be revealed looks like scumtell to me.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I see your reasons, but for now I'm voting for you. Do tell me if I misunderstood your posts.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

This is really off-base with what I'm doing. It's not that I was

willingly

copying my town game. It's that I was

deliberately

and

obviously

copying my town game. I have said that there are town-motivated reasons to do this. You can take my word for it and keep it in mind later in the game when it's more relevant for me to explain myself, or you can push for my reasoning immediately. I think that town is more willing to take people at their word when they bind themselves to doing something like I have, whereas scum is more likely to feel uncomfortable not knowing what town is planning and that discomfort, in my experience, tends to materialize in information-driven pushes.

Spoiler: Persivul's #144

This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)

Why do you want a page 1 lynch?

Why does anyone ever want a day one lynch? For the memes. As you have a long history of hating fake claims, I have a long history of not giving a flying fuck about day 1. On my old site I played for an extended period of time without even opening my role pm until N1.

Spoiler: Klick's 149

Lucky, is it normal for Atarashi to take people messing around at face value like they are here?

I think it's normal for him, as town, to try to move the game forward into a more serious state where we can properly solve.

Spoiler: Persivul

Another observation: the purpose of your post did not seem to clarify a misunderstanding, but to reverse the positions to make an attack. This is a classic scum mentality and you probably know that.

Didn't clarify a misunderstanding? He linked to a game you were both in, in which he was goofing around early, thus refuting your point. He ALSO made an attack, but there's nothing wrong with attacking someone who just made a false charge.

Not liking clidd.

Accurate.

I have literally mirrored my opening to a game we both played in, where I was town, nearly post-by-post. You are scumreading me for doing literally the same thing you have seen me do before, as town. I was going to label this move, "calling out a player making up a reason to attack me that they know to be false". I supposed I will take you input into consideration, as "Advanced OMGUS" rolls off the tongue slightly better.

You're copying your town game so scum-reading you is scum?

That's a misrep. Mirrored doesn't necessarily imply conscious intent.

Post 36 has you frustrated that copying your town game still has someone see you as scummy. What that Town Game is doesn't matter to me. Post 36 does, though.

Doubling down on the misrep.

That's unequivocally the worst interpretation of my interaction with Clidd possible. Scum-reading me for being comic in my opening, when he's seen me be comic in my opening before, is scummy.

@Clidd, Why did you unvote me?

@Zulfy, it's not frustration.

I copied my town game for a reason.

That reason will be revealed later in the game. At that point you will see clear town motivation for it. If you want to argue that it's scum motivated at that point, go for it. The only thing I'm frustrated about is your clear inability to think critically.

Forget the last couple of posts, apparently zulfy's interpretation was right.

Lucky, if you're town, why did you need to copy your town game for a reason? Wouldn't your normal play necessarily be your town game?

So first, relating the third post to the first two: I agree with the feeling on Zulfy, but disagree with the finer mechanics of what Persivul is saying. I

did

consciously intend to copy

a specific

town game. Persi realizes that Zulfy was right on this. That's not the misrep that Zulfy is making though. The misrep is that I'm claiming being scum-read for copying my town game is scummy. What I argued is that scum-reading me for pretenses that Clidd knows to be false is scummy.

As for the third post, yes, my normal play would necessarily be my town play. There's a benefit, however, to copying

that specific instance

of my town play. It'll make more sense later. Can we all just accept that, hold me to it, and move on?

Spoiler: Lucky's Opening: The Trilogy

I don't know Luciano's metagame, so I'm not convinced by clidd's argument.
I don't have a problem with #36, but #48 seems off.

Luciano, you are copying a comical approach to RVS for a reason that will be revealed later, and will show clear town motivation?
The fact that you were willingly repeating town posts and then covering up by saying you have reasons which will later be revealed looks like scumtell to me.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I see your reasons, but for now I'm voting for you. Do tell me if I misunderstood your posts.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

'Opportunistic' is a fun buzzword, especially early-game. I appreciate the insight on Lucky, though.
VOTE: Umlaut

Klick, I may have missed your reason to vote Umlaut. Can you explain why?

I'm going to call this scum

Farside, are you town? I really want you to be town.

This post was what pinged my vote. The long and the short is that the post read wishy washy.
There is no stance on it as a reason to vote Luciano and frankly it reads awkward as hell given the game state.
I usually see that from awkward scum.

Yup, either Farside is town or I think like mafia.

Spoiler: valoneast

Heard my name.

You guys are absolutely going at breakneck speeds here. I know the newb card will get me more flak, but I've been reading every post so far, trying to follow along. I mean, about 50% of the argument is linked to your prior game(s), which once again, I CAN'T CONTRIBUTE IN.

Not sure how you guys play your games, but when I've got something to contribute. I will.

Once again? Where did you say this the first time, in your mafia PT? Something about active lurking screams scum to me.

Must've missed the link then. But kudos for the heads up.

Just spitballing:

4. Hoctac - I absolutely hate this personality, claiming random shit. Making light of every situation. Generally, just shit disturbing the entire game.
6. Persivul - +1 for being friendly and slightly helpful? Though I'm not sure if this is out of frustration for my lack of game or not.
10. LuckyLuciano - Less scummy the more the game goes on. We'll see.
11. farside22 - One massive post, painting a picture of town to me, but still too early to tell.
12. Klick - Actually, the biggest scumread in my books. He's been bouncing around votes all day here. Seeing what sticks. Just bounces around in what I perceive as a random manner.
13. SirCakez - comes in and out of the conversation a couple of times, never posting anything relevant to the conversation.

How am I less scummy the more the game goes on if I literally stopped playing for two days? I also don't like the "I don't really know what to say in order to townread the guy calling me out, so I'll just give him a facebook like" townread on Persi.

Spoiler: Reundo

Aight, I'm here now. My thoughts on the game so far:

Clidd to me reads pretty obvious town. I didn't really jive with his early accusation of Lucky since it seemed pretty far-fetched, but it did spark a lot of conversation and he didn't let it drag on longer than he needed to, plus he seems thoroughly engaged with the game and has pretty solid reads so far. Umlaut similarly seems like he's actively game-solving with his questioning and commentary here and there, plus I thought his flip-flopping on Hoctac was pretty natural, although he's not as strong as a town-read. Klick I haven't agreed with a lot of his assessments, particularly his stance on Lucky and early SRing of Umlaut, but I do find it easy to see where he's coming from when he lays out his reasoning and reads a lot like an open book. I wasn't a huge fan of Pers early game but I think his catch-up looked towny albeit excessive, and I've agreed with most of farside's takes so far. valoneast is coming off more like newb!town than newb!scum to me so far, and I think his "spitballing" read pretty genuine, although it's not a strong TR atm. Hoctac's tone is pretty hard to read and I'm not quite sure when he's serious and when he's joking, I'm leaning towards him being lynchbaity town for the moment but I'm not putting much stock in that either.

I had early town pings from Zulfy through his interactions through Lucky/clidd thought looking back it wasn't as meaningful as I'd thought and I'd need more from him before I make up my mind. I thought this post from Cakez was kind of towny but otherwise I don't have a strong impression of him yet. Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of this post does ping me the wrong way. Most of the towny things I saw from Atarashi was their prodding of Hoctac, although I'm not putting a lot of stock in that rn because he's easy to criticize. Their content is OK but seems pretty fakeable by scum. I'm finding Ragman's content pretty underwhelming, and I'm not a huge fan of him prodding other's for their reads whilst not really giving out any himself. I thought this post felt almost like a repeat of valoneast's post (in terms of "I can't read y'all b/c you keep referring to other games", which I don't think is true anyways), and I'm not getting great vibes off of that either. I'm fine voting him for the moment.

VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

I like this opening, especially calling out that Zulfy's interactions with me and Clidd were largely meaningless and only appear to look valuable. I feel the same way and am glad somebody called it out.

Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of this post does ping me the wrong way.

Just wondering why? That first sentence just seems like he's trying to use their logic and he's exasperated that people can't follow it.

Admitting to copying his past town game down to the exact post is pretty strange. The only reason it doesn't bother me more is because he claimed he'd reveal the town motivation for that later on, so I'm not too concerned about it atm.

Fucking finally.

Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.

It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano

Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them?

By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?

Also, is there more to your Klick SR than him trying to dissuade SirCakez from voting him (ie how are you viewing his other posts)?

As quoted this, I was thinking it was a really good point. As I bolded it I kinda realized that it's sadly likely that a player concludes that copying town meta is scummy and is simultaneously too lazy to check if this is a consistent theme in my play. In other words, for me to find this in particular as a reason to scumread Ragman, I would expect Ragman to exhibit far more effort than he has so far. Do note, I don't think Reundo is scumreading Ragman in his attempt to seek clarification, and I like that from Reundo. It looks like he's sorting before making reads.

Spoiler: Page 11

Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.

It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano

Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them? By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?

I'm okay with Luciano copying his town game regardless of whether it's his metagame or not. I found #48 scummy.
A good scum player can pass off as town, so that makes any of my townreads this early meaningless. If I knew about how people would respond as town in other matches, I can back my townreads with better reason. Even without knowledge of anyone's metagames, it is possible to find AI posts, so scumreading can be backed with more reason early on.

Ragman, I need you to describe your impressions on players in addition to your scumreads. I can't Infer anything from your post 221.

zulfy's and clidds' openings seem to me like genuine curiosity to find scum. I find Hoctac's ISO pro town. Persivul, farside and sircakez look neutral to me.

This feels odd to me. If good scum can look town, and therefore your townreads are useless, how are your scumreads valuable? In other words, if scum looks town, and town looks town, then how do you even have scumreads?

Also, I expected far more content when I made this spoiler so it's changing to "Miscellaneous" so that I have a place to put the following post that I've been saving,

Evidently, I am speculating according to my personal interpretation of him, so it is very likely that you will disagree with me. But I don't think it's so healthy to press his slot right now, because I feel it will be more beneficial if he has space to work with us in building reads, at least until we can evaluate him better, assuming he will live the transition from D1~D2 .

@Clidd, why are you assuming that I will die N1?

I'm most confident on Ragman/Clidd right now. I need to check the votecount real quick.

I like your comments, but I don't see anything outside of your scum-rage. The reason I'm townreading you is because of your emotional reaction to my push, especially when Zulfy joined the conversation. So basically from my point of view you are a town with incorrect reads about me and I probably feel that my vote on Ragman intensified your feeling that he would be scum on the Scum!Clidd scenario. In this context, your scumreads start from a distorted perception of the game state, which weakens the accuracy of your general reads on the slots, unless, of course, your evaluation encompasses interpretations outside the speculation that I am scum.

[clidd]

Clidd, when have you ever seen me play scum? What's your basis for establishing a scum-range for me?

Simple: my imagination. In the same way that I can see that you are town scumreading my slot, I can analyze what your scum game would be like.

[clidd]

Yes, half experience, half pattern analysis/imagination.

[clidd]

I use everything at my disposal to have the best accuracy in my reads.

[clidd]

More questions ?

[clidd]

@Clidd, so help me out. Let's discount that whole initial argument, what do you think about his explanation to me and farside about what he did? Did it seem well thought out, or panicked "omg what have I done?"

Which post are you talking about ?

[clidd]

I like your comments, but I don't see anything outside of your scum-rage. The reason I'm townreading you is because of your emotional reaction to my push, especially when Zulfy joined the conversation. So basically from my point of view you are a town with incorrect reads about me and I probably feel that my vote on Ragman intensified your feeling that he would be scum on the Scum!Clidd scenario. In this context, your scumreads start from a distorted perception of the game state, which weakens the accuracy of your general reads on the slots, unless, of course, your evaluation encompasses interpretations outside the speculation that I am scum.

Once again, it's fine to read someone based on their initial scummyness, but have you read what he's been doing afterwards? I had the same thought as you, but from reading his iso and his willingness to admit his frustrations, (coming from a guy who was also frustrated), does it not seem like he is actually, just frustrated? He willingly admits this! That can't be a scum thing to do can it? it's just TOO obvious I feel. His explanations do seem well thought out. Even if a bit defensive.

Now, you might think I'm defending him, but the fact that he is hiding something does sound off alarms, I just can't imagine a scenario that he's scum!Lucky, but why so many secrets.

Maybe he as scum!Lucky is playing that obviously so that town WON'T lynch. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit?

I can give you a list of reasons for Town!Luciano in the current scenario, but I would like to focus more on locating who is scum than protecting a townread.

[clidd]

Yes, half experience, half pattern analysis/imagination.

This doesn't sound like you.

Anyhoo, can you explain why you assumed I would die N1?

I felt that you are TPR and I think that if you really are, mafia has probably been able to reason that out, which is why you would die N1.

[clidd]

What made you think I am TPR? Feel free to discuss it, I think explaining your reasoning is more important than hiding my role.

Also, why did you feel the need to reaction test me in the first place? Was there something I said that indicated that it would be valuable for you to test me?

I noticed that you could be PR in the transition from posts 32 ~ 34 to 36, where your tone became more aggressive and started to mention in a more descriptive way the defense of your meta, demonstrating, in my opinion, that you had been bothered far beyond from the ordinary to a VT mentality. It's not an insult, but I think that when you take on a TPR role, you end up feeling more important than you are, which makes it easier for you to be offended/frustrated when someone presents any suspicious particle about your slot. That was my inference.

I felt the need to test your slot for two reasons:

1- If you're a scum, I don't want you to go to lylo (because from what I've noticed, your frequency of posts increases absurdly in the late game and is a threat)
2- If you are a town, I want to know early to work together (and use you to get a read on Hajimari, you know him better than me)

[clidd]

That's all. I know you better than I know Hajimari, to be honest. Knowing the role of a familiar face early is easier for me than trying to do the same with players that I don't have so much experience.

[clidd]

What made you think I am TPR? Feel free to discuss it, I think explaining your reasoning is more important than hiding my role.

Also, why did you feel the need to reaction test me in the first place? Was there something I said that indicated that it would be valuable for you to test me?

I noticed that you could be PR in the transition from posts 32 ~ 34 to 36, where your tone became more aggressive and started to mention in a more descriptive way the defense of your meta, demonstrating, in my opinion, that you had been bothered far beyond from the ordinary to a VT mentality. It's not an insult, but I think that when you take on a TPR role, you end up feeling more important than you are, which makes it easier for you to be offended/frustrated when someone presents any suspicious particle about your slot. That was my inference.

I felt the need to test your slot for two reasons:

1- If you're a scum, I don't want you to go to lylo (because from what I've noticed, your frequency of posts increases absurdly in the late game and is a threat)
2- If you are a town, I want to know early to work together (and use you to get a read on Hajimari, you know him better than me)

How do you think vanilla!Lucky reacts when people make bad plays?

Also, if you believe that I am more aggressive when pushed as TPR, why would you choose to test me by intentionally misrepping my play? Don't you think that your chosen approach is likely, on its own, to tick me off?

Yes, but this is not something that I worried about. Whether you are town or not was more important.

[clidd]

I feel that our interaction is distracting me cognitively, as it is essentially TvT. So if you have any other important questions, don't delay, or my mind will delete info.

[clidd]

meh I reread the interaction and chldd reads as trying to get a reaction out of Lucky. I'm not sure why Lucky thinks this is scummy on it's own. The whole TPR really did not need to be part of this game and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

''

The whole TPR really did not need to be part of this game and leaves a bad taste in my mouth

''

I didn't understand this part, Miss Farside.

[clidd]

That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.

UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.

I'm waiting for your towntell.

What towntell were you looking for?

Your next reaction. If you had a robotic instance in an argumentative sense, I would suspect that you would be trying to pretend to be calm. If you were irritated/frustrated or showed any chemical trace of emotion, it would be more evident that you were town.

[clidd]

Also, if you believe that I am more aggressive when pushed as TPR, why would you choose to test me by intentionally misrepping my play? Don't you think that your chosen approach is likely, on its own, to tick me off?

Yes, but this is not something that I worried about. Whether you are town or not was more important.

You thought that knowing whether or not I am town was of great enough importance that you were willing to take a course of action that you believed was likely to out me as TPR?

Would you say that my play is noticeably worse when I'm annoyed?

You traveled a little in your sentence. The first inference of importance would be to determine whether you were town or not, and as a result your role specification was discovered.

When you are angry, it becomes more difficult to hide the interpersonal traits linked to your towngame. I believe you are more robotic as scum.

[clidd]

That's funny considering you were in Newbie 1995 and yet you noted my "comedic content" in RVS.

UNVOTE: Persi. VOTE: Clidd.

I'm waiting for your towntell.

What towntell were you looking for?

Your next reaction. If you had a robotic instance in an argumentative sense, I would suspect that you would be trying to pretend to be calm. If you were irritated/frustrated or showed any chemical trace of emotion, it would be more evident that you were town.

What it my first reaction was robotic? I'm trying to visualize a flowchart of my possible reactions and where the possible scum reactions lie, because it feels like you are finding spots for them after the fact.

Hum, it looks like you're not going to change your instance.

[clidd]

Clidd, you would enjoy reading some of the intense flame wars I've had as mafia.

[clidd]

I think I'll avoid future games with you, Luciano. It is not the first time I notice a decline on your read quality.

[clidd]

New ranking:

[Reundo] [Umlaut] [Hoctac] [Valoneast] [LuckyLuciano]

[Klick] [SirCakez] [brassherald] [farside22]

[Zulfy] [Persivul]

[Ragman Saul Rima]

[clidd]

I'll take a better look at post 254 when I arrive at home. (2~3 hours)

Pedit: I already imagine what your post will be like.

I'm not in the mood to follow this. Probably another time.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

He disappeared from the forum, probably hasn't read the topic yet. Consider my vote spiritually on his slot.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

He disappeared from the forum, probably hasn't read the topic yet. Consider my vote spiritually on his slot.

He just posted right hours ago, what are you talking about?

Didn't you notice that his last post was 254 and we're going to 385 ?

[clidd]

Are we speaking the same language ? I can not understand you. The withdrawal of my vote was to give him more time to return without a lolhammer in the meantime.

[clidd]

If you want, I can draw to help you follow the reasoning.

[clidd]

Upon reassessing, I see how and why Clidd saw me as TPR at the point he claims to have. The whole reaction test as a whole feels off to me still, but maybe it's

because

Clidd isn't really a reaction test sort of player, in my opinion, that when he does perform one it doesn't feel natural to me. Buying Clidd's interaction with me as town requires me to assume that Clidd made a logical oversight that is uncharacteristic of him, but I'm starting to see where exactly that oversight occurred and how it shaped his following posts. In short, I'm feeling more confident about town!Clidd at the moment.

Also, Clidd, your WIM really drops off when people disagree with you.

I am still dealing with my behavior when I see something irrational or that I disagree brutally.

And this is usually my reaction:

[clidd]

391 -> Emphasizing the obvious is not being smart and it really is not in my interest that your capacity to interpret is below average.

[clidd]

I will be waiting for Ragman to return, until then I would be happy if people did not speak to me.

[clidd]

Ok, I'm kidding. You can talk to me.

[clidd]

I'll take a better look at post 254 when I arrive at home. (2~3 hours)

Pedit: I already imagine what your post will be like.

I'm not in the mood to follow this. Probably another time.

I have recovered my mood now, I think I will do that.

[clidd]

Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.

It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano

Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them? By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?

I'm okay with Luciano copying his town game regardless of whether it's his metagame or not. I found #48 scummy.
A good scum player can pass off as town, so that makes any of my townreads this early meaningless. If I knew about how people would respond as town in other matches, I can back my townreads with better reason. Even without knowledge of anyone's metagames, it is possible to find AI posts, so scumreading can be backed with more reason early on.

Ragman, I need you to describe your impressions on players in addition to your scumreads. I can't Infer anything from your post 221.

zulfy's and clidds' openings seem to me like genuine curiosity to find scum. I find Hoctac's ISO pro town. Persivul, farside and sircakez look neutral to me.

Hum, maybe I have overestimated this post. Basically his interpretation of post 48 is understandable, in process, but not fully justified to infer a strong scum indicator on Luciano. I believe that his scumread is not viable if the pretext is only what he presented up to that post. The impression about Zulfy and my slot is very generic and does not absorb the essence of our posts in the initial stage of the day, especially for not quoting posts and being a generalist in concept. Hoctac's ISO, at the time of the post, had partitions that pointed to a scummy impression in some posts and towny in others, which discredits the unilateral impression that Ragman commented on being, essentially, pro-town. There was already content for him to better discriminate the Farside slot, so I believe that being neutral there is not natural. Persivul and Sircakez were more subjective reads during this period, so it is appropriate. Seeing the post as a whole, I feel that there was an omission of descriptions (which he could have done) and a strong apathy in specifying the generalism that he implied, because besides post 48, there was no example or quote from other posts. To be honest, this post created more questions than it answered, which in my opinion is scummy.

[clidd]

That's all for now., he remains my top-lynch.

[clidd]

391 -> Emphasizing the obvious is not being smart and it really is not in my interest that your capacity to interpret is below average.

Note

: Ignore this post.

[clidd]

391 -> Emphasizing the obvious is not being smart and it really is not in my interest that your capacity to interpret is below average.

Note

: Ignore this post.

So do I get to see the drawing, or...?

I did something special, which I think is appropriate for your understanding.

Spoiler:

[clidd]

I subtracted one of the letters to compress the name and facilitate the process of your mind too. At least as I imagine it to be. Well, if we can put these metaphors and ironies aside, I'm still waiting for Ragma, who is on the run.

[clidd]

404 -> Are you really townreading these posts: 77, 110, 116, 182 from Hoctac ? accusing several people in parallel without developing any of the scumreads is a scummy instance, I don't know how you are associating this with scumhunting. If you pay attention, Hoctac assumed that this was not a correct method on post 206 and started to change his perspective.

[clidd]

Hoctac picked up the old newspaper clipping. It was covered with a coffee stain, and some of the ink was smudged, but the words were still legible.

"A Murder in Mason Mansion - 8th May, 1946"

Hoctac frowned, and continued reading, intrigued.

"A terrible tragedy had occured, where the Innocent Child, SausasaurusRex was found [REDACTED] inside his abode. clidd and Umlaut were spotted at different locations several hours later, nearby the Mason Mansion. Authorities have concluded that they could not have been conspiring in on the murder together, as clidd was wearing red, and Umlaut wearing green. There's no way they'd hang out with such clashing colours."

Hoctac gave the newspaper clipping a nod of approval. That made sense.

"One of The Force's very own detectives is also under suspicion. Inspector Klick was found ruling out suspects faster than a copped mafioso would claim miller. Placing Hoctac as one of his primary two suspects due to the erroneous process, despite Hoctac being null raises numerous alarm bells - not all of which are able to be snoozed At This Time."

Hoctac had read enough for now. These findings would do quite nicely to share to the rest of the group.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: LuckyLuciano
I like Luciano's interaction in page 14 and 15.
I never considered the possibility that he could have a town power role. I retract my opinion on #48.

VOTE: Klick

At least you had a correct read on Luciano here.

[clidd]

Some thoughts before bed: Lucky's pretty strong town for me since he posted his wall, and that's been solidified through the rest of his posting. His posts and analysis are pretty in-depth and it's not difficult to follow his train of thought, plus I liked how he didn't really hold back in his questioning of clidd, his engagement feels pretty genuine overall. My read of valoneast has also strengthened once some of that newbie-awkwardness started to fade away, I do get the impression he's genuinely scum-hunting and trying his best to contribute / adapt to the game. I was worried Pers's burst of activity / actual scum-hunting would only be a one-time thing, and his pointless pop-in really doesn't help with that. I'm pretty underwhelmed with brassherald's replace-in, there's a lot of fluff in there and what game-relevant content in there isn't very fleshed out, and it also doesn't help that their predecessor wasn't great either. I'm not thrilled with Zulfy's disappearance but I don't think it's AI. I'm pretty confused by the wagon on Klick as his play so far seems pretty town-motivated, and I don't feel great about most of the players on it except SirCakez to some extent. I was hoping Ragman would give some more content upon his pop-in, but I'm pretty underwhelmed.

@Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?

@Klick I can mostly jive with your reads list but why did clidd drop down in your reads? His posting has been pretty consistent to me so far.

I appreciate your occasional comments, but it would be enlightening to me that you try to increase the frequency a bit and share the content in more posts so we can try to work better with you. I'm forgetting about your slot from time to time.

[clidd]

Would it help if I added little reference points for what exactly my read on everyone is? That isn't very helpful for me thinking about it that way, but enough people seem confused by my reads that I guess it's necessary.

- TOWN -
{farside22, valoneast, Reundo}
{SirCakez, LuckyLuciano, Umlaut}
{clidd, Persivul, Zulfy, Atarashi Hajimari}
- NEUTRAL -
{Hoctac, Ragman Saul Rima}

- SCUM -

Clidd = Persivul, Zulfy and a player who isn't playing here anymore ? (Hajimari)

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

He disappeared from the forum, probably hasn't read the topic yet. Consider my vote spiritually on his slot.

He just posted right hours ago, what are you talking about?

Didn't you notice that his last post was 254 and we're going to 385 ?

What did you think of his reply?

I think he's lowkey trolling.

[clidd]

It's okay there's always next game. I can't tell you how many times in live games I've had to be told I can't choose to kill my teammates and then give away the whole team in a pursuant argument about the value of life.

But, getting back to the actual game and a real discussion of why the reads list is the worst thing to ever happen to mafiascum, the list of names in a random order is the easiest thing for Scum to fake, especially when they give no reasoning at all. I hate them and it's a vote for me.

Read lists suck 2020! #RocktheVote

I need a quick readlist from you.

[clidd]

accusing several people in parallel without developing any of the scumreads is a scummy instance

In Hoctac's case, the reasons he gave look innocent to me. As if he was solving from a town perspective. The varying levels of scum calculated in terms of degrees looks like excessive paranoia, is all the more reason for me to TR him.

So not having townreads is a methodology that comes from a town mentality to you ? What if I said that it would make it difficult to find associations with his slot in the scenario where he's lynched and the flip is scum ? It is very easy to act like that as scum to gain credibility in the game, as it is basically wifom in its purest state.

[clidd]

@clidd, yeah, sorry about that, I've been pretty busy lately. I'm about to head to work so I'll be back later tonight if I can't find time to post between breaks.

Don't worry, take your time.

[clidd]

Update:

[Reundo] [Umlaut] [Valoneast] [LuckyLuciano]

[Klick] [SirCakez] [brassherald *BoP*] [farside22] [Hoctac]

[Zulfy] [Persivul]

[Ragman Saul Rima]

[clidd]

451-> It depends on the quality of your analysis on the slots. In your case, I believe it is incorrect on Hoctac by the posts you mentioned and you know it, although you don't admit.

[clidd]

Brass, what do you think about Ragman and Klick ?

[clidd]

Seeking a replacement for Klick.

[clidd]

You have strange feelings then, but nevermind.

Klick's exit here is probably emotional, so I think he's town.

[clidd]

Zulfy is making sense.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Clidd's content is good so far, leaning town there.

?

[clidd]

You have strange feelings then, but nevermind.

Klick's exit here is probably emotional, so I think he's town.

But they have no wagon?

Hurry, I want to interact!

He was L-2.

[clidd]

He claimed doctor, are you doctor ?

[clidd]

Actually, he didn't claim anything.

[clidd]

But you obviously saw his ISO before your answer.

[clidd]

People found the changes in his readlist strange, especially the position of my slot.

[clidd]

Shouldn't we wagon Zulfy ? He's hardcore lurking and he did the same thing in our past game, which he was scum.

[clidd]

Shouldn't we wagon Zulfy ? He's hardcore lurking and he did the same thing in our past game, which he was scum.

That is a cheeto read. No offense.

?

[clidd]

I think Quick is bad town.

[clidd]

I think Persivul and Quick are speaking in another language, to be honest. I can't understand how the reasoning of both slots works

[clidd]

Unfortunately, I'm on the cell phone's virtual keyboard, so I don't see myself interacting with the two at the moment.

[clidd]

I find it very hard to buy a scum read based on Zulfy just not being here. I'm not expect all of you to drop your entire lives for this game.

It is more about pressure, as he is not participating.

[clidd]

I will probably ignore 3 slots until I can focus again. I don't want to be rude.

[clidd]

Luciano, are you there ? I would like your opinion on some matters. I'll be home in 4 hours.

[clidd]

I will probably ignore 3 slots until I can focus again. I don't want to be rude.

2 slots now.

[clidd]

Farside, do you think Persivul being toxic is inside his towngame ? I believe you know him better than me.

[clidd]

That's all for now, I'll return here later (as I said above).

[clidd]

I'm back, calmer now. I believe that I will be able to re-establish communication channels with the two slots that I considered cognitively ghosts, as I had time to reflect on some personal reads and redefine some concepts.

Reading soon.

[clidd]

494->

''

Can you explain your klick read to me.

''

I have no experience with Klick as a player, but I have reasons to believe that he knows my town behavior by assimilating recent information (the origin of which I cannot name due to the forum rules). As a result, my interpretation of post 59 was that he was already assessing my behavior early, and he probably found it satisfactory when comparing my performance with the additional information he had. The observation about Zulfy, however, seemed to me very impartial, in the sense that there was no comment or neutral stance in the answers that Luciano gave, something that he tried to convey on post 73, but that was not so confident, in my opinion. The interpretation on post 67 also reinforces the suggestive impartiality in the Luciano case. However, when comparing the progression of the vote on post 21, to later post 59 and finally, post 81, they demonstrated, in the time period when I was building my initial read on his slot, a certain sporadicity that I associated it with a town mentality, because I imagined that in the Scum!Klick scenario, there would be a greater temptation to prolong the vote in Luciano for 3 reasons: 1- He had moved away from the topic (without defense), 2- There was significant support that helped in the wagon's climb and that could characterize an eventual lynch of the slot in the scenario where Luciano did not return to clarify doubts, and 3- demonstrate consistency, because if he agreed with Zulfy and me, the expected inference would be that he had an SL/SR on Luciano. Based on that, I felt comfortable putting him as a medium impression in my ranking on post 106. Later, there was a setback by him in the vote on post 146, after he witnessed the towny progression of Umlaut. On post 150, his reads start to take shape with Zulfy, Umlaut, me, Farside and Sircakez at the top, something that I interpreted as his personal criterion for evaluating the quantity/quality of posts from the players mentioned, while he sought more interactions to see if those impressions would change, which in my opinion reflected a provisional towny conduct. At that moment, I was inclined to climb his slot in my ranking, but I ended up with the answer apparently superficial on post 168, which did not seem to indicate such great transparency of thought, something that made me keep the slot in the yellow zone. I believe that the readlist on post 211 had not yet covered Luciano's reply, who had not returned to the topic after the previous conflict, which made me surprised that he was above Hajimari, Hoctac, Valoneast and Ragman, who theoretically, were producing more content than he was. At that moment, again, I ended up keeping Klick stagnant in the same position, as I still wasn't seeing the development I was expecting. After Luciano's return, and our dialogue, I noticed that he had gone up on his readlist and my slot suffered a gross drop to the same placement as slots like Persivul, Zulfy and Hajimari (post 355), which demonstrated that his opinions had, in fact, changed with Luciano's appearance, but even so there was no justification so strong to elucidate how he would be seeing me as equivalent to two AFK players and a harsh player (Persivul). I was extremely tempted to decrease his position on my readlist, but I noticed that this would be something emotional, as just as Luciano had a scumread on me and I knew he was town, it could also be the same situation with Town!Klick, suspecting from me, even if in an unnatural way. So, I decided, for the third or fourth time, to keep Klick stuck in the middle impressions, as there was a part of me that believed he would be town, while another part said that the relegation in my slot had been done in bad faith. 412 was basically an outline of what would be motivating him to downgrade my slot, not satisfactorily explaining, in my perception, that I continue in a zone very close to neutral/null on post 415. The sequence of post 416 did not improve my vision, which deteriorated in the plastic reaction of post 417. I was already convinced that, at least, her slot would go down to the orange zone, but what prevented me was the fact that he asked for substitution while on L-2, which, in my conception, did not characterize the Scum!Klick scenario being unmasked, as he could have tried to perform a rolefish when he reached L-1, and a selfhammer to prevent associative components from becoming evident, giving the impression that Town!Klick had been uncomfortable with the accusations. But, on the other hand, there are no emotional indicators on her ISO near this period that indicate stress, anger or frustration, which basically suggests that Town!Klick's scenario leaving the game due to dissatisfaction with the game state can only be true if he is an emotionally mature player, and does not let chemical manifestations influence his typing. Something that is a little difficult to be true unless it is a point of interpersonal affinity in Klick's profile. But at the moment, my entire interpretation of the ISO makes it clear that the existence of alternative moves like scum makes it impossible to leave the game early, although I am not yet speculating about external peculiarities.

In other words, my current read of Klick being town exists due to the interpretation I have of his ISO, as it reflects more of a town perspective, with sporadic reads and an inconsistency that is difficult to consider within an agenda- scum.

[clidd]

Reading him is basically reading your slot as a whole.

[clidd]

VOTE: clidd

He's been pinging me a bunch lately. The Zulfy vote is bad, the rolefishing in 477 is bad, and I don't think someone who has Ragman as his top scumread is that afraid of leaving him at L-1 for a bit.

1- I never voted for Zulfy.
2- 477 was a pretty obvious reaction test.
3- I believe I already explained that a lolhammer could have happened before Ragman came back. Regardless of how scummy you think a player is, there is always a possibility that you can be wrong, so it is interesting that the suspect always has the chance to defend himself. The same type of example applies to Luciano, who had a chance to defend himself and managed to dissolve the wagon.

[clidd]

Reading him is basically reading your slot as a whole.

Thank you Mafia Gods.

[clidd]

Update:

[Reundo] [Umlaut] [Valoneast] [LuckyLuciano]

[Klick] [SirCakez] [brassherald *BoP*] [farside22] [Hoctac]

[Zulfy] [Persivul]

[Ragman Saul Rima]

Any chance I can get you to unpack this a bit?

I think I can sum it up for you, do you still need it ?

[clidd]

Paragraphs, Mr. Clidd. Paragraphs.

Pardon, Ms. Ame. I'm still getting used to it.

It is a hemorrhagic pleasure to have you with us, I hope we can collaborate with each other this time.

[clidd]

I'm not on a break. Hello.

Are your partners low effort again ?

[clidd]

No one is going to join me on Hactoc so I will go somewhere else.

This seems spicy enough I guess...

VOTE: Zulfy

I was really inclined to agree, but upon reflection I decided that it is not so interesting as I thought.

[clidd]

TRs on Valon, Lucky, farside (she doesn't push me here as scum I think), Hoctac (I think his lack of caring about people's reads on his playstyle is town), Ame/Persivul
Nullish on Looker/Ragman, Reundo (these people don't have enough content or I'm unable to read what they have)
Scumlean on Zulfy, Umlaut
SRs on Quick/Klick, maybe brassherald/Atarashi dependent on meta

Don't like Umlaut's Persivul push. He's attacking Pers for things that are NAI.
I hate the composition of the Ragman wagon.
Quick's entrance not helping my read on the slot.
Persivul is rude but probably a town slot from his final reactions before getting the boot.
My Zulfy read is sinking the longer he goes without posting.
Will definitely be keeping a close eye on Ame after Hungarian 2

Where is clidd ?

[clidd]

I linked the newbie game we played, this is full meta read. He is playing very similarly here as he did there. I don't fully believe someone so new to the forum could emulate the same tone while trying to hide being scum.

I think a big part of what presents as Clidd's "tone" is really just translation effects. But at any rate I think this argument is fallacious if you're going solely by his tone in a town game without having a scum game to compare.

Although I recently did not see myself considering Umlaut as a valid opinion slot, I feel that no comment from him is part of a malicious mentality. He is likely to remain in the green zone.

[clidd]

TRs on Valon, Lucky, farside (she doesn't push me here as scum I think), Hoctac (I think his lack of caring about people's reads on his playstyle is town), Ame/Persivul
Nullish on Looker/Ragman, Reundo (these people don't have enough content or I'm unable to read what they have)
Scumlean on Zulfy, Umlaut
SRs on Quick/Klick, maybe brassherald/Atarashi dependent on meta

Don't like Umlaut's Persivul push. He's attacking Pers for things that are NAI.
I hate the composition of the Ragman wagon.
Quick's entrance not helping my read on the slot.
Persivul is rude but probably a town slot from his final reactions before getting the boot.
My Zulfy read is sinking the longer he goes without posting.
Will definitely be keeping a close eye on Ame after Hungarian 2

Where is clidd ?

Cakes put you on ignore.

lol, for real ?

[clidd]

Looker replaces Ragman Saul Rima.

The OP will be out of date for a while as I'm not updating right now.

"Looker", I think we played together at some point, I just don't remember exactly where.

[clidd]

Tryna get a feel for the game-state but maybe I just have to read the whole thing. Any chance someone can tell me the big stuff?

You can't put someone on ignore in a mafia game even if they're on your foe list.

I can do a summary for you, I'm reading now.

[clidd]

It was a joke.

Guess what? I'm not mad and I know you're not either.

I guess that means you should probably not write walls about me I am not going to read.

P-Edit: I am voting for you because someone in your neighborhood didn't want to to vote for Hactoc.

GLHF

We are *ok*, I guess. My wall was about your predecessor, as it helped me to remember my progression on Klick when I recapitulated the information I had written down. I don't really appreciate your playstyle, but that doesn't matter, if we are in the same alignment we need to collaborate eventually.

[clidd]

And yes, that means making small posts to facilitate our social interaction.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

I have BIG news. I hope you're listening closely, because I'm about to crack this game WIDE open. They're gonna be talking about this post for mafia generations to come. This will probably get me that mOmEnT oF bRiLlIaNcE award for 2020. I'm not kidding btw. Read and take this post seriously.

So, it all started when I was making my scumcase for Klick/Quick (sometimes referred to as Kluick).

I came across his first post:

VOTE: Umlaut

I dunno about the Persivul wagon, but this is scum regardless.

A "strong" entrance, but an unnatural level of overconfidence. Remember how he has no scumreads later in the day, and claims his bottom two reads are "neutral"? Exhibiting a strong scumread such as this one does NOT fit the playstyle of a player who apparently townhunts and doesn't have many scumreads. As explained by him in 421 for example.

Let's move on to the his second post:

Zulfy is making sense.
VOTE: LuckyLuciano

Clidd's content is good so far, leaning town there.

He has already moved on from his Umlaut scumread, and is now sheeping a player without explanation. Now, on its own, this isn't too bad, but what you need to understand is that this is NOT a natural progression from his previous post and expressed level on confidence to this one. Spotting inconsistencies in thought processes is one of the BEST ways of finding scum, and is the number 1 scumtell I use.

.
.
.

Okay, let's take a break here.
So, I could go through all his posts and continue explaining why he's scum. Sure, I could do that. It'd be very easy.
OR, I could skip ahead to the post that absolutely 100% incriminates Qlick as scum. This is gonna be great. I hope you're ready.

THIS IS IT:

VOTE: valoneast
Atarashi/Hoctac: tell me why I shouldn't vote here.

This beauty right here. I'd like to thank farside for asking me to make the scumcase, as I likely otherwise would have missed this.

In this post, Klick is asking Atarashi and Hoctac (that's me!!!) about our opinions on valoneast, and why we shouldn't vote there. On it's own this post is strange, why ask us out of everyone? I don't see any reason prior in thread that he would be asking us two specifically.
Well, here's the thing: Atarashi, valoneast, and I are in a

neighbourhood

together. Klick is NOT in this neighbourhood. He is asking us because he knows we may have an opinion of valoneast formed from discussion in the hood, but has NO reason to be aware of this fact. Zulfy is also in this hood.
What this means is that Qlick is scum with one of Zulfy, Atarashi, or valoneast, and subconsioulsy let slip that he was aware of this info. The only other explanation is that he's an Informed Townie, that was for some reason aware of the hood, but is that even Normal? Probably not.

EVERYONE vote for Kluick today. This will clear me as town, and confirm one of Atarashi/valoneast/Zulfy as scum. This game is basically over already.

I need to read this later with more attention, as it goes strongly against the read I have on the slot.

[clidd]

INFORMED TOWNIE

I'm a bit of a layman in mechanical matters, but is your skill similar to what it says on the wiki ?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Informed

[clidd]

Yeah, the thing I was going to wait on Quick's response for was that Informed Townie with knowledge of a neighborhood is as far as I can tell totally Normal.

If Quick were scum there is a possibility he would be unsure about that and not want to make that claim, which would make life harder for him. Since he did make that claim I suppose that didn't work, but I can see the post Hoctac calls out as more likely as a crumb than a slip.

Umlaut is improving on observations.

[clidd]

Honestly, I wasn't expecting scum!Quick to go down this route either. I thought he'd try to brush it off as a coincidence. I still think he's scum though, there's reasons outside of the potential knowledge slip which make both him and Klick scummy.

Why have I "ruined the game", Quick? What have we lost?

I need to read Hoctac's theory first to build the mental scenarios and see if I agree with his posts.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Seeking a replacement for Ragman Saul Rima.

And there gies my 3rd scum read.
Yup taking it personal. Totally lurking my next game.

Don't like Umlaut's Persivul push. He's attacking Pers for things that are NAI.

This would make sense if I was saying he was scum for those things, but I wasn't saying that and I didn't/don't think he was.

Quick's entrance not helping my read on the slot.

Meaning it's not helping you to form a read, or that it's not making you think it's town?

(I have Quick as a reasonably solid townread atm)

Why a town read?

He just reinforced my scum read. He basically voted on lynch bait material and a player that is mia. Calls pers town and said nothing that says hey im scum hunting

Okay, but you are Town for the same reason.

99% sure I did more then that. But you do you and pretend it is otherwise. Please.

So I figured I would link games from Klick that show he can scum read and things that are different

klick town
klick town
klick scum game

So he actively pushes players more with questions as town. The votes he places is for reads and he has idea's for who he is scum reading why,
Scum game showed a weak reason for scum read then does low content in the scum game.
So saying he can't scum hunt in this game is pretty wrong thought process.

This is me not buying the "claim" from quick either.

Another post that I have to read with attention.

[clidd]

@Hoctac: Who is in your neighborhood?

Atarashi, valonhost, zulfy.

zulfy needs to be here for an proper read on that group.

VOTE: brass

Who else do you scum read beside quick/klick?

I have a BoP on Brass, I still hope he can contribute more.

[clidd]

VOTE: Hoctac

There's at least one of the scum in the neighborhood. I've been trying to engage and literally just pointed out don't out the neighborhood's existence, because we are neighbors, not masons. Talk to me, etc.

I also pointed out that despite his scummy behaviors his first post in the Neighborhood is saying he's got another PR. No prodding, he just comes in with it.

I was trying to work a little bit there to get information, but, at this point only one of them is even engaging me and the other reacted right after I pointed out we weren't confirmed town and should consider it but not lynch a claimed bigger PR day 1 by going ahead and ignoring me.

Also, the only reason he tells everyone in the neighborhood he is a PR in the first post are the old scum or dumb, and this is now scum, not allowed to be dumb.

Forget what I said, he finally moved.

[clidd]

nothing to see here


VOTE: brass

I can't read you, can I ?



I need to get over this.

[clidd]

That's all, I'm going to take a break. In the meantime I will be reading the marked posts and building my inferences to discuss later.

[clidd]

720-> I like how you don't admit that you have absolutely no reason to suspect me and that your vote was purely emotional. You just want my slot dead, regardless of my role.

[clidd]

Hey, Looker, I rescued from memory: we played together in january, Micro 918.

[clidd]

Yeah, when you want someone dead the best way to do that is to say they're not a good lynch

Uh, ok.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

I'm partially drunk today, I wanted to argue in defense of Klick's slot, but I think I'm out of cognitive energy for that.

[clidd]

I remember having theorized a lot of conduct scenarios for Scum!Klick and Town!Klick according to the theory proposed by Hoctac, which ended up weighing more towards the scum side in the sense of cost/benefit in the precise interaction with the hood players. However, my invidual read of the slot, outside of this theory, points to the town side. So there is basically a conflict of distinct impressions.

[clidd]

It is very likely that you have been hammered (not a reaction test)

[clidd]

Well, I'll come back to the topic tomorrow to try to discuss your probation (if you're still alive).

[clidd]

Nothing about me ?

[clidd]

Ok.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Good morning,

Is Quick alive/dead ?

Spoiler tags added around animated image per the rules.
~Ircher

[clidd]

VOTE: farside

?

[clidd]

I have had plenty of people vote for me for not understanding what I was saying.

You tend to view me as Scummy right? So is it that you don't understand what I am saying or another reason?

Like, how much time is left in the DP? I think enough that my wagon

should

theoretically collapse. That's given this is a normal game and we lynch at a normal time instead of 9 days before the phase ends.

P-Edit: what do you think given he has been here since 2009?

Hum.

[clidd]

No, you have 180 posts and I'm lazy. Care to link the relevant part?

The one where I give my Town block. Hint: you are on it and so is fareside.

Hum².

[clidd]

If you start showing town motivation yeah
Instead of scum flailing 24/7

How about no. How about I was Scumhunting just fine until Hactoc made the worse post of the game. Did you bother to consider I could be Scumhunting in an indirect way? Y/N?

I still have difficulty seeing frustration in your tone.

[clidd]

To be honest, I don't care about his lynch anymore. The slot died imo when Klick leaved.

[clidd]

I just don't add my vote out of respect for my reads on Klick.

[clidd]

I need to reread the game. I'll be here in a few hours.

[clidd]

I'm back.

[clidd]

What made you think I am TPR? Feel free to discuss it, I think explaining your reasoning is more important than hiding my role.

Also, why did you feel the need to reaction test me in the first place? Was there something I said that indicated that it would be valuable for you to test me?

I noticed that you could be PR in the transition from posts 32 ~ 34 to 36, where your tone became more aggressive and started to mention in a more descriptive way the defense of your meta, demonstrating, in my opinion, that you had been bothered far beyond from the ordinary to a VT mentality. It's not an insult, but I think that when you take on a TPR role, you end up feeling more important than you are, which makes it easier for you to be offended/frustrated when someone presents any suspicious particle about your slot. That was my inference.

I felt the need to test your slot for two reasons:

1- If you're a scum, I don't want you to go to lylo (because from what I've noticed, your frequency of posts increases absurdly in the late game and is a threat)
2- If you are a town, I want to know early to work together (and use you to get a read on Hajimari, you know him better than me)

How do you think vanilla!Lucky reacts when people make bad plays?

Also, if you believe that I am more aggressive when pushed as TPR, why would you choose to test me by intentionally misrepping my play? Don't you think that your chosen approach is likely, on its own, to tick me off?

After thinking for a while, I came to the conclusion that Luciano's death is probably connected to the dialogue we had during that period ^

I suppose mafia interpreted that he really could be PR, which would explain the NK.

[clidd]

After finishing my re-reading, my ranking is:

[Umlaut] [Farside22]

[Looker] [Valoneast] [Hoctac]

[Reundo] [Ame] [SirCakez]

[Brassherald] [Zulfy]

[clidd]

Ame is probably doing a reaction test.

[clidd]

Ame is probably doing a reaction test.

clidd, I suspect you are not a human being but an early, poorly-trained iteration of MafiaExplainBot. Is this correct?

Spoiler:

I am what the universe created me to be. I cannot change my nature.

[clidd]

After finishing my re-reading, my ranking is:

[Umlaut] [Farside22]

[Looker] [Valoneast] [Hoctac]

[Reundo] [Ame] [SirCakez]

[Brassherald] [Zulfy]

I'll update this by Ame's response time:

[Umlaut] [Farside22]

[Looker] [Valoneast] [Hoctac]

[Reundo] [SirCakez]

[Brassherald] [Ame] [Zulfy]

[clidd]

Brass, I gave you a BoP deadline. What is your current solution ?

[clidd]

Day 3 begins!

farside22,

Vanilla Townie

, was killed Night 2.

Spoiler:

[clidd]

I'll update this by Ame's response time:

[Umlaut] [Farside22]
[Looker] [Valoneast] [Hoctac]
[Reundo] [SirCakez]
[Brassherald] [Ame] [Zulfy]

Clidd, what was the point of this if you weren't going to kill me?

Because I can mislynch you. Welcome to my game.

[clidd]

Ame, are you really cop ?

[clidd]

Ok, let's say

Ame is cop

.

{Brass, Valoneast, Hoctac and Zulfy}

--> Hood

Brass scum

=

Valoneast/Hoctac/Zulfy town.

PoE scumteam -->

Sircakez/Umlaut/Reundo/Looker

[clidd]

Ame is probably faking a report, but she wasn't hit N2, which means that mafia don't want to waste a NK (because she's one-shot), or they know that she's not cop.

[clidd]

Or she's just lying and is mafia.

[clidd]

Aren't you one-shot ? (1-bullet, 1-shot, whatever)

[clidd]

Ame, just tell me the truth: what is your role/report(if any) ? I think I have a solve in my mind, but I need you to be honest with me.

[clidd]

And I know you wouldn't claim cop as mafia here.

[clidd]

L-3

Ame, are you there ?

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Até depois.

[clidd]

I think Cakez just got confused tbh. I kinda did too and didn't immediately notice the problem with that post about Quick. But the explanation given was weird.

Clidd: why did you scumread me earlier

It was more because of your absence during the period when we were questioning Luciano that it still hasn't been so clear to me. As time went by, I was also not a big fan of your progression, but I think this is more a characteristic of your playstyle than necessarily a scummy attitude that you performed. If the ''math'' of hoods is correct, I believe we can say that you are probably town mechanically, unless someone presents a game in which a 4-player hood (in a 13-person game) has 2 scums .

[clidd]

To be honest, after the re-read I did in the transition from N2 to D3, I saw the departure of Ragman (Looker) and the ISO of Persivul (Ame) from another perspective.

Spoiler:

Maybe I'm insane, but I'm starting to work on the hypothesis that they are both towns.

[clidd]

Why? What did you realise in the reread?

Ragman:

Looking at Ragman's progression from post 127 to 414, I feel that he was trying to enter an investigative mentality, but not being so effective (because the suspicions in his slot only increased). Post 451, when I tried to engage with him, the response had a partially ignorant tone, in the sense that he was no longer as comfortable in prolonging the subject that I wanted to discuss, very similar to the posture when someone says something that you consider be absurd or totally opposed to what you are thinking, what fits more in the context of Town!Ragman trying to defend his own ideas (is aware that his reasoning is true), than Scum!Ragman avoiding creating associations with his slot for not harm his partners after flip (is aware that his reasoning is false). His last post, 454, exemplifies the development of the frustration he was feeling at being accused and having his reads completely ignored. It was at this point that I associated the exit with Klick (Quick), in the sense of motivation

[Towny]

Persivul:

Personally, I don't appreciate this player's playstyle, regardless of his alignment, which probably influenced my judgment about the slot emotionally. However, when observing his ISO, I noticed that the aggressiveness (which is a characteristic point of his profile) was applied in a context that seemed very strange to imagine Scum!Persivul gaining an advantage. This started in the interaction between Persivul and Umlaut, on posts 455 ~ 459, which was then continued on post 482, replicating the same insult but with an additional: a role. Why Scum!Persivul would claim to be a PR knowing he would receive another warning that would result in his force-replace from the game ? in that context, scumteam would have a damaged slot as soon as a successor appears. Evidently, it's possible that Scum!Persivul was trying to make some wifom move or just couldn't control himself, but the scenario that made the most sense in my mind was that of Town!Persivul trying to stay in the game (by claiming), but not avoiding further insult because of his arrogance/ego. I feel that in the Scum!Persivul scenario, there would be the most significant suppression of this toxicity, because if my read is correct about Ragman, the scumteam had both

Klick

and

Ragman

as potential mislynchs in the period when the votes had escalated in both wagons , something utopian/ideal for the mafia to capitalize on, which would make it possible for him to maintain good behavior. Particularly, I always avoid this type of toxicity, regardless of the alignment, but when the emotional factor collapses, it is much easier not to be able to hold on as a town, because you know that there are no partners that depend on you, than scum, where you need to constantly maintain a good social image so as not to damage your team's chances of winning. So, in other words, the assimilation of my personal interpretation of the behavior that Persivul exhibited before leaving the game, and also during the game (as I noticed that he was actually trying to perform scumhunting), point more strongly to his town scenario than scum scenario.

[Towny]

Evidently, these two reads can change completely depending on the actions of the successors (Looker / Ame). In the case of Looker, I currently have a problem with the formatting of his posts and I don't feel that much transparency coming from him. My problem with Ame is the lack of information on her role that is leaving me completely in the dark.

[clidd]

Could you tell me what you had not liked about my progression? Also yea I was absent day 1 I have that terribly bad habit, legitimately: apologies.

Give me some minutes.

[clidd]

I don't think I need to be specific. Your case, Zulfy, from what I have noted, is basically your simplicity in inferring things. Your engagement with other players is more widely spaced and does not nurture as much detail to distinguish whether it’s coming from a town mentality or not. Not that I'm saying you're not paying attention to the game, but that's my view of your behavior. But I'm comfortable with you now (hood mechanics).

[clidd]

Ok, let's say

Ame is cop

.

{Brass, Valoneast, Hoctac and Zulfy}

--> Hood

Brass scum

=

Valoneast/Hoctac/Zulfy town.

PoE scumteam -->

Sircakez/Umlaut/Reundo/Looker

If I'm right on Ragman/Persivul, I can see a reduction in possible PoE combinations.

Spoiler:

The scumteam would be, theoretically speaking,

Sircakez and Reundo

. Which is a slightly weak combination, especially looking at the low number of posts in both slots. I'm not sure if my Umlaut read is still valid with N2 flip, but he always give me towny feels. I still need to listen to Ame to know what the heck she is thinking, but if she really is cop, there is a special motivation from mafia to not try to run a NK on her, as this would confirm the false report she claimed to have (or hit 1-shot). It is also possible that I am an extreme fool/idiot and Ame is obvious scum messing with our heads, but that is the main line of reasoning I have now, unfortunately.

Added spoiler to image as requested.
~Ircher

[clidd]

Ops, I forgot the spoiler tag.

@Mod

, if you can censor the gif ^

[clidd]

Ame, what do you think of clidd now?

Obv scum. I'll have a full analysis once I'm fully read up. I don't know if his partner is Looker or Cakez. I thought it was Looker before, but now I'm leaning Cakez. There's also a chance it's Zulfy since he didn't seem to believe my claim yesterday, which would imply that he knew Cakez was town.

Cakez is my partner, we can lynch him today since you wasn't killed.

[clidd]

Like he is obviously squirming because he realized he made a mistake not killing me and he probably thinks I have a guilty on him. Especially from this:

Aren't you one-shot ? (1-bullet, 1-shot, whatever)

Precisely, I asked if you were one-shot because I made a fateful mistake by not eliminating you.

[clidd]

Now that I have confirmed myself to you, could you tell me what your N1~N2 results are ?

[clidd]

I will change my question:

Did you got an inno on any of these players>

Reundo/Sircakez/Umlaut

?

if no, just say no.

[clidd]

Ok!

[clidd]

@clidd, have you ever joked about yourself being scum before?

Irony is not so characteristic of my profile, much less in the scum alignment.

[clidd]

idk why people are so stuck up on this
what advantage do I get as scum doing this
I'm literally just lost this game and missed some important posts
earlier today when I made that post I forgot hoctac but I did know he was in the hood day 1
now I know everyone thanks to Ame quoting that post with the members

fin

Hum.

[clidd]

Ame + Reundo seems plausible to me

No one's noticed that Reundo hasn't posted in a week.

Ame, what do you think of clidd now?

Obv scum. I'll have a full analysis once I'm fully read up. I don't know if his partner is Looker or Cakez. I thought it was Looker before, but now I'm leaning Cakez. There's also a chance it's Zulfy since he didn't seem to believe my claim yesterday, which would imply that he knew Cakez was town.

I think it's Hoctac and Cakez/Reundo

---

• @Zulfy
  Spoiler: Was that you being cheeky?

  
  
  
• @clidd: Formatting and transparency. Got it.
  Spoiler:

  
  
  
• Clidd and valoneast are obvtown

Looker obvtown.

[clidd]

Can we lynch Ame now

She's wild, I'm afraid to start a push.

[clidd]

We should wagon Reundo.

Spoiler:

[clidd]

VOTE: Reundo

[clidd]

He's scum according to my PoE and is not doing anything.

[clidd]

I'm too lazy to detail, but I remember him having very good reads on D1 that I took much more time to formulate. I don't think he is a superior player to me in the sense of analysis, so I suppose he has access to additional information (scum).

[clidd]

And well, he's playing since D1 and has only 19 posts. We're going to post n° 1399 now.

[clidd]

@Umlaut I was thinking it might be a soft too. I'm not sure why you'd point it out tbh but I'll wait for your reasoning. Also in your Lucky recap could you go over what changed between this post and your Quick vote if you weren't planning on doing so already.

Last post of Reundo,

May 09

^

Scenario¹: Reundo is scum and mod didn't replace him because he stills active on the scum PT.

Scenario²: Reundo is town and mod forgot about him.

Similar situation before ?

yes.

Jackal711, Large Normal 226:

So this has started. And at 9 pages already, Which honestly seems low for a game this big even though it's only been 4 hours.

I see a lot of fluff but do have one solid scumread.

VOTE: TrueSoulEnergy

If I'm not mistaken, there is a theory regarding that player's slot.

He only has 1 post and received no prod and was not mentioned for replacement.

Jackal's first and only post was on

Mar 08

. My post was on

Mar 17

, and during that period he had not yet received any prod. It was noted later, however:

Player Roles

Player Roles:

Red Mafia

39) Ascetic Mailman - aaronfrost
40) Loud Rolecop - RCEnigma
41) Neighbor (1) - elsa jay
42)

Odd-Night Roleblocker Neighbor (3) - jackal711

43) Neighbor (2) - insomnia
44) Ninja - creature

Spoiler:

Mafia, of course.

[clidd]

Oh, so the theory is he was posting in the scum PT and so didn't need a prod/replacement. Wierd.

Precisely.

[clidd]

NAI ? sure, but I found it interesting to share here. It is not every day that I have a dejavu.

[clidd]

It is towny the comic content that Looker is exuding.

[clidd]

No, he should stay on Cakez or join Reundo with me.

[clidd]

If I'm not wrong about Ame/Looker and the hood doesn't have 2 scums, the scum-PoE is Umlaut / Cakez / Reundo. Considering that I'm townreading Umlaut, the plausible solution in my design is Cakez / Reundo, which are the two slots that I imagine should be lynched today.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

[clidd]

Ame, can you play like a normal Town!Ame ?

I think you act much more towny as scum than town, but I'm not getting to understand you in this game anymore.