Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[Maduisha]

Votes are not just to lynch a player, they also serve the purpose of creating pressure so they'll participate more and generate alignment indicative content. As for what else did you do, I generally feel making promises of future actions to be scummy, especially if unfulfilled. You did that, Clemency did it too, Joqiza did it as well, so the tell isn't perfect because there aren't 3 scums in newbie games. But I think it still helps reading a player's mindset and the intentions behind their actions.

[Maduisha]

I'm guaranteed to be misreading a minimum of 1 person there and that's kind of tilting me because that means there are town players with scum mindset in this game and that only complicates things.

[midwaybear]

if that's your only evidence, try looking for more stuff. I said I would reread and I did, but I didn't really find anything the first time. Then people pressured me again, so I said I would reread again. I did, coulfn't really find anything, but I gave some thoughts. Idk if that is an unfulfilled promise.

[Maduisha]

okok I'll actually reread this time sorry

I don't even know why are you trying to convince me of anything when you admitted it yourself, lol.

[Maduisha]

but that's not really fluffing. that's more like not keeping up with a promise.
My three scumreads were actually Clemency, votato, and you
I didn't like votato's push against DK, and his explanation for why he stopped is basically like "I give up just ignore the argument"
I didn't like Clemency's early game and he gave me nervous vibes.
Madiusha we also have to be careful of. She seems ok as of now, but I still want to keep an eye on her

good night both of you

pedit: wow

I posted examples of you doing both things, please don't deny one with the other, because I can just quote you again if you want to see what I'm talking about.

Okay, thanks for explaining what's on your mind. Can you now explain the meaning of 225? What were you waiting for, exactly? I'm asking because seeing you suddenly spit reads after being put at L-2 feels scummy and I want to know if there was a different trigger.

Also, could you tell me your reasons to scumread me? You explained Votato and Clemency, and then there's nothing for me. How can people say "oh, you're right" if you provide no reasons? How can I comment on it myself? Honestly, you're making me think the scumread is because I voted you, and pushed you, and refuse to unvote.

Anyway, now that you're here, can you address this post of mine? I think you either didn't read it or ignored me again. I am slowly becoming the invisible woman, I can feel it.

[midwaybear]

I think you're right. That is mostly why I scumread you. You seemed to be the only person seriously pushing me, so I thought you viewed me as an easy mislynch or something.
The meaning of 225 is exactly what it read like. I scumread you, clemency, and votato. Sometimes it is better not to tell people you scumread them because they don't have their guard up.
I wrote 258 before DK voted me, but posted it after. I think I revealed my reads because joqiza told me to.
I know I fluffed, but I don't really think I promised something and didn't do it.

[Maduisha]

I think you're right. That is mostly why I scumread you. You seemed to be the only person seriously pushing me, so I thought you viewed me as an easy mislynch or something.
The meaning of 225 is exactly what it read like. I scumread you, clemency, and votato. Sometimes it is better not to tell people you scumread them because they don't have their guard up.
I wrote 258 before DK voted me, but posted it after. I think I revealed my reads because joqiza told me to.
I know I fluffed, but I don't really think I promised something and didn't do it.

I have so many problems with this post and I'll try to explain it the most simple way I can because I know it looks like I'm deathtunneling you and I want you to see your own posts as if they weren't yours for the sake of you understanding my argument. Okay, here I go:

- You say 225 happened because you didn't want

Votato

,

Clemency

, and

me

to have our guards up, pressumably because you want to do a reaction test or see more of our slots before revealing, because you think uncovering the scumreads can influence our behavior and ruin your accusation. Okay, fair, moving on.

- You say you wrote 258 before DK voted you and put you un L-2. His vote is 254, which means this is not true as far as chronological order indicates. This means, that if you are town, you had the post drafted, but the forum's new message preview function impeded you from posting the readpost before he voted you. This is entirely possible, I am not calling you a liar. But... put yourself in our shoes. How do we know this is true? I can say the same thing and have it be a lie. I suggest you do not use facts that are only ever verifiable for yourself as a defense, because otherwise I can end every accusation towards me by saying "I'm town because I know I'm town."

- I am aware Joqiza asked you to post the reads, but then doesn't that defeat the first point you made? Joqiza making a random request has nothing to do with

Votato

,

Clemency

, and

me

, does it...

- I just quoted yourself admitting to not fulfill a promise of rereading... sure, it fulfilled way later after you apologized, but in my eyes you escaped the discussion at hand with that post, which is the problematic part here.

Please, try to see your own posts as if they weren't yours to help me understand the logic behind them. If you are town, I'm digging a hole I'm not sure I'll be able to get out of...

[midwaybear]

Nah, if you are town, then it's mostly my fault i think. I am not a good town player(or scum player )
Yeah before I was going to post those reads, the site did block me. However, the discussion was lively then, and I had started to type way before DK voted so I don't think I saw their vote.
Your thing about Joqiza makes sense though. I'm not really sure why I posted it then.
Maybe some other people can help me out.

[Maduisha]

To be honest, I believe that the preview impeded it for real because the other option is too unlikely. But posting the reads before you were satisfied with our slots still makes no sense aften making a point about waiting. I'm glad you understand now why I'm confused.

A part of me believes it's because I angered you, since the readpost was addressed at me even if it was because Joqiza requested it, somehow.

[midwaybear]

maybe you're right
i'm starting to think that I just got impatient or something

[Maduisha]

Hm... I want to unvote because the attitude is good and I'm seeing honesty, but on the other side that readlist reveal makes no sense...

Midway, do you think you can you sell me your Clemency/Votato wagons? Can you expand on the reason for your reads on them or are they just gutpings for now? It's okay if you have nothing.

I feel so damn lost in this game.

[midwaybear]

I feel stronger about clemency being scum than votato
mostly for reasons people have said before
1. I didn't like his early game. I don't think what he first posted was necessarily a scumslip, but I didn't like his explanation.
2. clemency never really attacked anyone, and was mostly on the defense

I know this isn't a lot, but I can't really find anyone else to build a case on. Maybe I am just being lazy though because there have probably been a couple of scumtells so far.

[votato]

Hm... I want to unvote because the attitude is good and I'm seeing honesty, but on the other side that readlist reveal makes no sense...

Midway, do you think you can you sell me your Clemency/Votato wagons? Can you expand on the reason for your reads on them or are they just gutpings for now? It's okay if you have nothing.

I feel so damn lost in this game.

VOTE: maduisha this game deserves a good counter-wagon. the people need it. You've picked up on a tiny thing midway did and view it as scum, when it seems like it should pretty clearly be NAI. Your expressions of self-doubt read to me like scum trying to hedge so they can backtrack later.

[Maduisha]

A tiny thing? It is a contradiction, isn't it? Why is hesitating because of a glaring contradiction scummy? His attitude clashes with his actions and I'm having a hard time reading his slot, I've been saying it for a while now. And I have not unvoted while doing so because I still think it's worth it to see what else can he produce under pressure.

[Maduisha]

I am interested in seeing you trying to sell my wagon to the rest, though. Maybe that will move things a bit.

[votato]

its not a contradiction to have both fluff posts and content-posts. the key is whether there are any content posts, and whether the content posts are genuine. I mix in plenty of shitposts with content posts. it doesnt make the shitposts scummy. and you made that judgement way too early in the game. you're also wayyyy to confident in your 3 scumreads this early, which is why it makes sense that scum!maduisha would hedge by expressing self-doubt. Do you townread anyone? why?

[Maduisha]

its not a contradiction to have both fluff posts and content-posts. the key is whether there are any content posts, and whether the content posts are genuine. I mix in plenty of shitposts with content posts. it doesnt make the shitposts scummy. and you made that judgement way too early in the game. you're also wayyyy to confident in your 3 scumreads this early, which is why it makes sense that scum!maduisha would hedge by expressing self-doubt. Do you townread anyone? why?

Have you read my posts at all? I've expressed townread towards DK, townlean on Ydrasse, and Enomis, and have explained my reasons for each already. And the contradiction I see is not that he has a mixture of tone in his posts, it's that he said "I have 3 scumreads but I'm not gonna reveal them yet because that will influence them when they post if they know I scumread them", only to reveal them anyway when Joqiza asked him to, without fulfilling his self-established condition.

[Apogee]

Sounds like a couple of you have played with midwaybear before. Was he similarily hesitant and did he do the same question patterns in a previous game? Of course this can't be indicative but knowing a little more would be helpful to understand the mindset.

[midwaybear]

nah i think it was because I got impatient

pedit: i played with votato and DK and I beat them both

[votato]

midway was scum in the previous game. He didnt post much and coasted. there were no fluff-posts. and yeah you won, but how anti-town was knightmare being there... I had the game solved more or less. At least I was onto brass, although I don't know if i would have thought he was bussing KM or not. I also scumread you. It would have been a mess the next day if KM hadnt thrown the game.

[Maduisha]

UNVOTE:

I think I need to relax and accept that the most likely answer is the most simple one. Impatience vs opportunism... I think I'm weighing on impatience here because of his personality traits.

[Maduisha]

Apogee and Votato, do you have any new reads from the latest pages? (Yes, I know Votato just voted me).

It's fine if you don't, no point in making reads out of thin air, but it won't hurt to ask.

[votato]

i did just notice that after a little bit of pressure you backed off of midway. i think youre worth a wagon here just to see what happens.

[midwaybear]

i can see madiusha+clemency

[votato]

i can see madiusha+clemency

why?