Newbie 2001 | Game Over

[Karnage]

Vote Count 2.4

LuckyLuciano (3) ~

72offsuit, Micc, Gypyx,

Gypyx (2) ~

LuckyLuciano, enomis,

enomis (1) ~

Tuxedo Mask,

72offsuit (1) ~

Petrichorus,

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2020-05-12 12:00:00)

V/LA: none

[enomis]

I also read through the case for lucky. From my pov, nothing from the case stands out and gave me the feeling of, "Yes, this reason convinced me. Lucky may be scummy".
Don't think the case hold much water.

@Micc, do you have an updated read on Lucky besides fwog's argument?

[Gypyx]

In post 618, Gypyx wrote:
So overall yeah, I feel like lynching LL is probably the best choice there, because even if he doesn't flip scum, we'll probably have a good idea of where the scum could be
VOTE: Lucky
Attention, this is L-1 on LL


Who would be scum if LL flips town. This post pinged me super hard.

I'm pretty sure that LL / 72 is W/V or W/W

[Gypyx]

Fuck

[Gypyx]

In post 618, Gypyx wrote:
So overall yeah, I feel like lynching LL is probably the best choice there, because even if he doesn't flip scum, we'll probably have a good idea of where the scum could be
VOTE: Lucky
Attention, this is L-1 on LL


Who would be scum if LL flips town. This post pinged me super hard.

I'm pretty sure that LL / 72 is W/V or W/W due to the way they interacted and second scum would lie somewhere in Petri / Micc

[Petrichorus]

@Tuxedo, is this your ISO and read of 72?

Anyways, did the ISO of 72. His posts and thoughts are consistent and easy to follow and are always open and forthcoming with thoughts and answers. Nothing jumped out to me as dishonest, disingenuous, or scum motivated. So for me, they're town.

I disagree with your take on 72, but I think that'll have to wait now.

^ EBWOP: With posts linked:

@gyp:

Re: post 301 - a key part of your townread of LL seems to be your feelings in 301:

"for instance, taking off your vote on petri, assuming that you're scum and Petri isn't your scumbuddy
(which would be quite weird, considering what you did in post 179) you had the opportunity to just keep your vote on him,
and surely, this would've been pretty likely to cause an unintentional hammer, while not making you that suspcious,
but you chose to take it off, which i find to be quite illogical to do as maf
(like, even a scum wanting to make himself look better could've just pointed out "hey watch out, petri is actually at L-1)


I disagree with your read of LL here. The momentum of day one feels like it was heading towards a bv lynch quite easily.
In the end, we had 6 players happy to vote for bv (I stated intent to hammer but TM hammered instead)
I feel like LL wouldn;t need to pursue Petri, with bv's head on the chopping block.

So, what I;m saying, if you set this thought-process aside Re: your townreading for the above rationale,
do you townread LL for any other reasons?


You say in your post 163, you don't see LL's
"carelessness" you're describing, so, i don't think that the read you have on him really applies

Pretty much what I feel is you also see LL as being disingenious, thus scummy here.


Basically, what I;m getting at, are you willing to jump on the LL wagon and see where it goes?

I've been townreading him for other reasons, but what i've said about him taking off his vote was the main part that led me to belive he's town

While i don't really see what you talked about as disengenuous, I agree that there was other weird things coming from him recently, like the fact that he accuses me upon considering that he could be scum

So overall yeah, I feel like lynching LL is probably the best choice there, because even if he doesn't flip scum, we'll probably have a good idea of where the scum could be
VOTE: Lucky

Attention, this is L-1 on LL

The read from this is that you aren't conviced Lucky is scum and your reason for voting is to uncover scum tomorrow? Tomorrow could be our last day if we mess this up. This pings me as scum who want to go for the lynch but don't want to seem like a big pusher.

For my money, I don't think Lucky is scum. Every reason that may incriminate Lucky I feel is more incriminating on others or is NAI. I don't think scum would move away from a hammer when there was no momentum elsewhere, it just doesn't track. His recent demeanor feels like frustrated town rather than cornered scum.

While I would rather be pushing 72, that's kinda out of my hands here so I'm going to come down here:

VOTE: Gypyx

This is for the tone and reasoning of his vote and for his voting record D1

@Tux, state intent to hammer and I suppose we'll go on to claims.

======================
New post from Gypyx: Someone please explain W/W - V/W I assume it is shorthand for W/wolf and Villager respectively.

Pausing my vote on Gypyx.

Out of the two: LL and 72, which do you think is more likely to be scum? Why?
How do you read their interaction?
How does Micc fit into this? Pocket? Sxs?

[Petrichorus]

To be clear UNVOTE: Gypyx
Strikethrough didn't do it justice

[LuckyLuciano]

^ EBWOP: With posts linked:

@gyp:

Re: post 301 - a key part of your townread of LL seems to be your feelings in 301:

"for instance, taking off your vote on petri, assuming that you're scum and Petri isn't your scumbuddy
(which would be quite weird, considering what you did in post 179) you had the opportunity to just keep your vote on him,
and surely, this would've been pretty likely to cause an unintentional hammer, while not making you that suspcious,
but you chose to take it off, which i find to be quite illogical to do as maf
(like, even a scum wanting to make himself look better could've just pointed out "hey watch out, petri is actually at L-1)


I disagree with your read of LL here. The momentum of day one feels like it was heading towards a bv lynch quite easily.
In the end, we had 6 players happy to vote for bv (I stated intent to hammer but TM hammered instead)
I feel like LL wouldn;t need to pursue Petri, with bv's head on the chopping block.

So, what I;m saying, if you set this thought-process aside Re: your townreading for the above rationale,
do you townread LL for any other reasons?


You say in your post 163, you don't see LL's
"carelessness" you're describing, so, i don't think that the read you have on him really applies

Pretty much what I feel is you also see LL as being disingenious, thus scummy here.


Basically, what I;m getting at, are you willing to jump on the LL wagon and see where it goes?

I've been townreading him for other reasons, but what i've said about him taking off his vote was the main part that led me to belive he's town

While i don't really see what you talked about as disengenuous, I agree that there was other weird things coming from him recently, like the fact that he accuses me upon considering that he could be scum

So overall yeah, I feel like lynching LL is probably the best choice there, because even if he doesn't flip scum, we'll probably have a good idea of where the scum could be

VOTE: Lucky

Attention, this is L-1 on LL

And to answer your last question, I've tried to take it into consideration. I feel that the logic behind my decisions is sound, removed from my personal opinions.
As such, I'm happy to entertain suspicion on Lucky and I want to see what comes from that wagon.

The crux of Lucky/72 needs to be resolved as I see it, and pushing in both directions is beneficial as long as we reach a consensus, even if it's a compromise. I intend to continue pushing 72 unless it becomes more important for us to pursue Lucky.

Well, could you explain why you'd rather push 72 than LL, I feel like a flip from LL would generate more information

Dealing with other games, never signing up for this many at once again. If there's something pressing that I need to answer please repost it on the most recent page so I see it and I'll respond more immediately. Otherwise I'll get to it when I get back to the game. Anyway, this posting from Gypyx, on D2, is 100% always coming from scum.

[Tuxedo Mask]

This is not what I expected to wake up to. Petri looks very good here, though I'm not sure about the rush for me to claim. I understand the logic just felt odd.

Anyways, Gyp just leaped to the top of my scum read. Their entire vote on LL feels like TMI, they seem convinced LL will flip town and don't seem to care at all. It's also strange to dismiss 72's entire case on LL, it'd be easier to sheep. And we have putting LL and L-1 without notifying. However, this post is pro the mafia win condition, I'd feel Mafia players would at least try and be a bit more subtle than that, so I'm going to check their ISO.

[LuckyLuciano]

This is not what I expected to wake up to. Petri looks very good here, though I'm not sure about the rush for me to claim. I understand the logic just felt odd.

Anyways, Gyp just leaped to the top of my scum read. Their entire vote on LL feels like TMI, they seem convinced LL will flip town and don't seem to care at all. It's also strange to dismiss 72's entire case on LL, it'd be easier to sheep.

And we have putting LL and L-1 without notifying.

However, this post is pro the mafia win condition, I'd feel Mafia players would at least try and be a bit more subtle than that, so I'm going to check their ISO.

It feels odd doing this, because it defends my scumread while I'm at L-1, but I am a slave to the facts.

VOTE: Lucky

Attention, this is L-1 on LL

[Tuxedo Mask]

Just came back to correct that, I'm dumb. Thanks LL.

[Petrichorus]

Ah fuck it. Thought I'd catch him while active, seems not. VOTE: Gypyx as originally intended for the reasons previously stated. Thought his posts afterwards were a town questioning their decision, perhaps not.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Gyp at L-1.

[Petrichorus]

Also, I was a little worried about a scumswap and quickhammer. More likely D3, just got me on edge.

That's Gypyx and Lucky at L-1. Tux, I trust you. Make the decision that you think is right. Unless someone jumps wagon, it's probably on you.

[Petrichorus]

Damnit Tux xD

[Gypyx]

Ok so I think my post got misunderstood, my point was that, even in the worst case scenario that LL was town (which i doubt, but i'm trying to consider every option) we would still be in a good position, so therefore LL is a good lynch

[Gypyx]

And yes Petri, i'm pretty convinced that LL is scum

[Gypyx]

This is not what I expected to wake up to. Petri looks very good here, though I'm not sure about the rush for me to claim. I understand the logic just felt odd.

Anyways, Gyp just leaped to the top of my scum read. Their entire vote on LL feels like TMI, they seem convinced LL will flip town and don't seem to care at all. It's also strange to dismiss 72's entire case on LL, it'd be easier to sheep. And we have putting LL and L-1 without notifying. However, this post is pro the mafia win condition, I'd feel Mafia players would at least try and be a bit more subtle than that, so I'm going to check their ISO.

I'm not dismissing in case, i just mentionned that i don't really think the points he brought directly to me really stood, while providing my own reasoning for thinking that LL is scum

[Tuxedo Mask]

Ok so I think my post got misunderstood, my point was that, even in the worst case scenario that LL was town (which i doubt, but i'm trying to consider every option) we would still be in a good position, so therefore LL is a good lynch

I understood your post but let's break down how it comes off.

I've been townreading him for other reasons, but what i've said about him taking off his vote was the main part that led me to belive he's town

While i don't really see what you talked about as disengenuous, I agree that there was other weird things coming from him recently, like the fact that he accuses me upon considering that he could be scum

So overall yeah, I feel like lynching LL is probably the best choice there, because even if he doesn't flip scum, we'll probably have a good idea of where the scum could be

1. The opening is you explaining your town read of LL
2. You disagree with 72's scum read of LL.
3. The first mention of scum LL, you site one thing and wave more examples as "weird things."
4. You focus on what happens if LL flips town, and why it would be a good lynch anyways.

So while your post technically comes down on a mafia viewpoint off LL, you do vote for them. You spend the majority of the post,\ viewing them as town with nearly no arguments or evidence of them being Mafia. It comes off as opportunistic, as you try to lynch someone scum reading you, while not wanting to be assoasocitad with a bad argument agaisnt them.

[LuckyLuciano]

It's almost like Gypyx has put 2 wagons at L-1 and has hard pushed a 3rd wagon while deliberately staying off of it, which he later addressed by saying that he doesn't think mafia needed to stay off that wagon.

[LuckyLuciano]

To clarify, there have been 3 major wagons aside from his. 2 of them he put on the brink of lynch. The third he was not on, and tried to imply that because he was not on it, he's town. His votes follow an agenda.

[Tuxedo Mask]

@Gyp, if you wanna clarify your read of LL now would be the time to do it. Show us those posts you find scummy.

[Gypyx]

Ok so I think my post got misunderstood, my point was that, even in the worst case scenario that LL was town (which i doubt, but i'm trying to consider every option) we would still be in a good position, so therefore LL is a good lynch

I understood your post but let's break down how it comes off.

I've been townreading him for other reasons, but what i've said about him taking off his vote was the main part that led me to belive he's town

While i don't really see what you talked about as disengenuous, I agree that there was other weird things coming from him recently, like the fact that he accuses me upon considering that he could be scum

So overall yeah, I feel like lynching LL is probably the best choice there, because even if he doesn't flip scum, we'll probably have a good idea of where the scum could be

1. The opening is you explaining your town read of LL
2. You disagree with 72's scum read of LL.
3. The first mention of scum LL, you site one thing and wave more examples as "weird things."
4. You focus on what happens if LL flips town, and why it would be a good lynch anyways.

So while your post technically comes down on a mafia viewpoint off LL, you do vote for them. You spend the majority of the post,\ viewing them as town with nearly no arguments or evidence of them being Mafia. It comes off as opportunistic, as you try to lynch someone scum reading you, while not wanting to be assoasocitad with a bad argument agaisnt them.

Well, i viewed them as town as it is what needed the most explaination imo, because there's no need to explain why you want to lynch someone you consider as scummy
And then, while I see how this can be viewed as opportunistic, this is just my process of thoughts (and btw, i don't think distanciating you from a lynch while being the vote that puts at L-1 is a realistic plan)

[Tuxedo Mask]

Finished ISO @Gyp what happened to your scum read of 72? It was something you consistently brought up Day 1. Even lamenting that a 72 lynch didn't seem possible that day, and you'd have to wait. Now day 2 is nearly done and you haven't mentioned them until saying the LL/72 interaction is either Wolf/Wolf or Wolf/Town. What happened there? You don't agree with their read of LL at all, wouldn't it make sense to follow up on that disagreement + your scum read of them and question them? Instead, you join their wagon.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Well, i viewed them as town as it is what needed the most explaination imo, because there's no need to explain why you want to lynch someone you consider as scummy
And then, while I see how this can be viewed as opportunistic, this is just my process of thoughts (and btw, i don't think distanciating you from a lynch while being the vote that puts at L-1 is a realistic plan)

Can you explain this more? It comes off like you do town read LL. And no you don't need to explain why you wanna lynch a scum read. I'm saying you haven't explained your scum read.