Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

It feels like everyone is POEing down to her rather than making a case for what she's done that she wouldn't do as town.

But that's a reasonable mode of thinking, no? If there's a reason not to vote most people, that can be a reason to vote skitter, even if she hasn't done anything she wouldn't do as town.

-Smart

[GuiltyLion]

It feels like everyone is POEing down to her rather than making a case for what she's done that she wouldn't do as town.

But that's a reasonable mode of thinking, no? If there's a reason not to vote most people, that can be a reason to vote skitter, even if she hasn't done anything she wouldn't do as town.

-Smart

I don't think it's unreasonable, I just don't really vibe with it.

[skitter30]

so I don't really know what you want from me here or how that's going to help sort us.

i'm making a point in that i think it's disingenuous for you to say thatt acryon may have been scum trying to ram in a ta!allo lynch when it wasn't viable there; i basically think that you push on acryon is bad

although the quotes you pull about how people were discussing allo just before the vote actually are valid ... i remember acryon's vote more as coming out of nowhere at a time when there weren't enough votes for the wagon to occur given the deadline

==
meh limit's response to me is kinda townie actually
maybe i'm overthinking this one too much

(also i'm sorry to hear that irl is though rn, i hope things get better soon)

==

This feels like a nontown stream of thoughts, I've never as town been like "Oh this guy is one scum... oh no due to PoE the other has to be you

i'm pretty sure i've said something similar to gl here oodles of times as town, especially if the player i was scumreading i liked and *wanted* to be town

like i'm not sure this is mathematical poe sort of read so much as he's disappointed that he feels he needs to push auro, if that makes sense

==

Also this is a much weaker point bc I haven't seen scum!Smart in some time but I think Smart as scum is a bit more pushy/agenda-y. Here he's playing to what I generally see in his town game of kinda just poking holes at different people's opinions and otherwise okay with taking a backseat to watch most of the game unfold.

i guess i kinda agree with you on limit but ftr i believe this to be more emblematic of ss's scumgame than towngame

==

acryon's entrance is low-key townie
UNVOTE:
i don't like eve's sheep there tho

and i think that acryon's readslist is also pretty good actually

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter
This is scum. Cop her/lynch her.

maybe we should sheep nomnom

ummmm ...
(especially immediately coming after you backing off saying that i felt 'off' when you couldnt' substantiate it when pushed?)

=

Titus you realize that wagon dynamics were fucked with yesterday because of wanting to optimizing the people on/off-wagon in order to make the best cop-pool possible, right?

like your whole gl push is based on the faulty assumption that votes in this game were moving similarly to how they move in other games

=

The fact that it was a joke notwithstanding, I don't really think that people wouldn't be holding Eve responsible if skitter was lynched because Eve out the blue proposed to sheep noms.

she's part of that group of people that i think are trying to find reasons to push me

=

Who said I used ordinary assumptions? I factored the setup into my analysis.

ok, can you elaborate on this part please?
because from where i'm sitting, that doesn't really seem to be the case

[skitter30]

Nah I still think Acryon is town, the stuff that pinged for me early game pinged for you too, but other than then they have seemed town

Crayon is town, Atari is town, you're town, Eve's town, 1/0's town, I'm town, Guilty's meh town
{Skitter, Titus}

Titus' previous slot Rex basically scumslipped. Read 1623. His first post after the soft is to unvote while calling me out for continuing to push Allo, saying that Allo towned it up.
On D2 he justifies his unvote by saying he wanted more time and not because he didn't want to not lynch Allo (triple negative yaaaay). That's a lie.

i very strongly disagree with this reading of rex's allo progression, it's internally consistent; his votes throughout day1 made it fairly clear that he didn't want a lynch on any of *several* players just then because he wanted more time, not just on allo
your're acting like on day2 the 'wanting more time' thing is a new idea when it's something that's clear throughout his iso from like early day when he wanted us to not lynch eve on like page 7

also can we assume i'm better with associatives as scum than like badly chain-sawing my partner via starting a 1v1 with one of the more townread players of the game, i'm starting to get annoyed by this ngl; i would have played that differently in like 5 different ways as scum partnered with rex there

=

VOTE: skitter

yeah this is actually where we should go

hi, why

=

I'm not sure how much I buy the "scumslip" tbh. Rex was pretty repetitively promoting the idea of dragging the day on as much as possible, and the second statement seems to line up with those other arguments relatively well. That said, that slot is one of my probably scum suspicions, so I wouldn't mind flipping it.

yes, this, as i've said now like 6 times

=

You tell me - if you thought a slot "towned up" and unvoted them, would you call it "wanted more time, not that I wanted to defend them" or "I thought they were towny"?

honestly i think he was disconnected enough from the game that he didn't necessarily remember why he unvoted there
he also didn't seem to recognize the soft given his explanation for why the wagon slowed down

also i don't know why we wouldn't apply his general 'i dont' want to lynch now, i want more time' to allo in particular, given that, you know, he said that about allo in particular

=

PoE, likelihood of existence of scum in the cop bloc, the correct cop kill looks like a scum!competent kill (this is a weaker reason), her associations with Titus.

Skitter didn't even attempt to understand the implications of Rex's slip, while Smart immediately picked up on it when I pointed it out; then Skit goes on to soft defend it.
Titus should be concluding from VCA that Skitter is around on the same level of GL; yet tunnels on GL, and attacks me when I push Skit, while offering nothing on Skit IIRC

a) it was not a slip, it made sense given his general approach to the game; also i'm not soft-defending it, i'm hard-defending it, this is a silly reason to push the slot
b) none of these are really reasons to scumread me in particular either beyond 'i think that there's competent scum out there'. like beyond poe / my disagreeing about my slip why am i scum here?

[skitter30]

Of course, because GL isn't actually scum hunting. That sort of soft pointing out just looks like it. That's my point. There's no town reason to out a soft. As scum it's please verify so I can shoot the PR.

also i'm kinda baffled that you can look at gl's posts this phase / since you repped in and think he's not scumhunting?

=

Suddenly Skitter is suspect enough to be copped.

um that isn't what he said ...

=

End of day wagon, Skitter is off it. I was referring to the collective consensus. Since y'all positioned for the TA.

GL wouldn't want Skitter to be conftown. That's conftown pushing him. Town would want to know if their biggest detractor was town or scum.

what the hell, lol:
a) i wasn't pushing him since like mid-day1
b) if you think that i was pushing him, your last sentence implies that he'd be town for wanting to know if his biggest detractor was town or scum
c) me and gl were both off of it since that was the consensus

=

I feel so frustrated with everyone. I feel like this is a pride thing. Town collectively at this point has wagoned wrong twice (Allo and Nom) and threatened three more times wrong (Carnage/AH, me, Skitter). What is it going to take to get people to listen rather than be stuck in stubborn pride?

also this reaction feels out-of-whack with what's actually happening here? idk

can you just summarize why you think gl isn't scumhunting cuz you've alleged that multiple times and i havne't seen you substantiate that anywhere yet

=

I commented on how Aurora is distancing from GL. I get crickets.

ok, elaborate then?

[skitter30]

Just saying.

This is a scum evolution.

yeah that's actually a decent point, auro, what happened to townreading titus for her slip?

=

It feels like everyone is POEing down to her rather than making a case for what she's done that she wouldn't do as town.

^

[Titus]

In post 1737, Titus wrote:
Who said I used ordinary assumptions? I factored the setup into my analysis.


ok, can you elaborate on this part please?
because from where i'm sitting, that doesn't really seem to be the case

Yes

1) Be a sheepy mofo and not draw attention. Go with consensus. (Your refusal to do that Day 1 is why you are town.)
2) Don't bus.
3) Try to out the cop.
4) If this fails, focus the cop on wrong town.

These are true regardless of any manipulation done. Scum prefer the manipulation described here because it fits their sheepy agenda and makes accurate wagons hard to push. Spam and make your detractors look scummy/crazy.

[Titus]

can you just summarize why you think gl isn't scumhunting cuz you've alleged that multiple times and i havne't seen you substantiate that anywhere yet

=

In post 1819, Titus wrote:
I commented on how Aurora is distancing from GL. I get crickets.


ok, elaborate then?

I can't go through here and quote every post of GL's and put why it's not scumhunting. Nearly every post since I subbed in has been Titus is crazy, Titus is scummy or AtE or setup spec. None of that is scumhunting. If you see scumhunting in a post, I can break down why it isn't. Otherwise, you're asking for something that bogs down the thread.

[Titus]

this isn't really how i'm thinking of the game tbh, and i don't think that limiting to solves to 2 people in townbloc makes much sense either really

I said candidate solves, not high confidence solves.
The argument gives higher credence to finding scum within the cop bloc even if TA died.
I believe Karnage is town.
Leaves you and GuiltyLion.
I think GL is likelier town than you are, if both aren't scum.

also i think trying to do a complete solve with no flips is silly

{Skitter+Titus}
{Skitter+GL}

His last post is Skitter plus GL. His second post here suddenly adds me into his PoE but keeping GL. Both setups he lynches you first. Then me. Then whoops time to reevaluate in lylo.

It's a classic distance. Sure my partner is scummy but someone else is scummier.

[GuiltyLion]

Titus I specifically asked you MULTIPLE TIMES to look at Karnage with me and you ignored me. That was me scumhunting and trying to work with you as I thought you were town and just making too many assumptions about a thread you hadn't read.

Then when you refused to engage with me whatsoever and insisted on parroting completely factually incorrect takes about how I played D1, misrepping me constantly (saying I was "whining"), and Atari started towning up his slot, I re-evaluated and started hunting elsewhere in Molla/Eve/your slot

I've also been in constant talks with multiple people about Skitter and why I think she is town

so why do you say none of that is scumhunting?

[GuiltyLion]

Skitter I don't like when you do these catchups where you question a bunch of things but don't really add in new direction beyond that - who's your ideal lynch right now?

[GuiltyLion]

also Titus if you

actually read

D1 and GL/Auro interactions you'd also see that we're pretty transparently not partners, I'm not capable as scum of faking the level of frustration I felt with him and the degree to which we engaged about the game on a wide variety of fronts

[Auro]

His second post here suddenly adds me into his PoE

Yeah after your posting in the previous page

[Auro]

GL where you at right now?

[GuiltyLion]

I intend to vote Titus as soon as I see a VC, especially if she continues to be incapable of re-evaluating on me or responding to any reasoning (and/or literal facts), because that needs to get resolved ASAP and I am not absolutely not willing to deal with her continuing this tunnel on later days.

If she does flip town then I think Eve is prob scum.

Outside of that, not really sure. I don't feel like I have a good grip on a Titus partner, which is worrying.

Molla's push on me I can sorta see as genuine town reasoning though I simultaneously don't like how that's the one thing he's focused on and not... any of the other things happening.

I'm in the process of trying to check myself on acryon again - tonally he sounds super town but I can vibe with where Atari is coming from and I don't see a lot of scum elsewhere.

I still think Skit/Limit/Atari are town. Gun to my head I think you're town but all bets are off on your slot if Titus flips town.

[GuiltyLion]

actually sorry I should be more fair to Molla, he did look at Atari's acryon case and the way he rebuffed it also feels really town, unless it's literally Molla/acryon. So Molla still prob town

[Auro]

Help me see Skitter town with what's AI from her.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm worried this might be the Eve thing all over again where I'll try to give some reasons and you'll disagree/argue with them and we'll go in circles doing that until I give up trying to keep substantiating more reasoning with more reasoning

I just think she's looking at most everything I'm looking at the same way, and if she's scum I can't see what her agenda is, I don't believe she defends her partner Rex in the way that she did, and also if she is partnered with Rex, then why does she continue to defend against the 'slip' while then also arguing repeatedly with Titus in the very same sequence of catchup posts? Like she's setting herself up to push Titus, but also then coming back to questioning you on how you went from town!Titus to scum!Titus? none of it feels very much like it's premeditated or with a goal in mind

idk, I'm not exactly qualified to speak authoritatively on what's AI from skitter I just now went back and looked at my history with her and she's been scum in all three games I played with her lmao. and I often townread her early in those games. I wanna say she felt a bit more ~diplomatic~ as scum whereas here she's been a lot more hostile/aggressive, but I can't genuinely back that up with good evidence, just a vibe I've gotten from this game. And who is her partner if not Titus? Nearly everyone else has been arguing/shading her or is independently pretty town.

[Auro]

I don't believe she defends her partner Rex in the way that she did, and also if she is partnered with Rex, then why does she continue to defend against the 'slip' while then also arguing repeatedly with Titus in the very same sequence of catchup posts?

What's the counterplay when they see town using the slip as a golden ticket to vote Titus?

[GuiltyLion]

I guess maybe with the hostile/aggressive thing, the way I can substantiate that is this - skitter has been picking fights with people like me, Limit, you, but they never seem to lead her to pushing on any of those slots. She reversed on me, she reversed twice on Limit, she hasn't been pushing you for a lynch either IIRC. So basically, why is scum!skitter getting into all these slapfights if she's not trying to push the pedal to the metal and turn them into scumreads with conviction? It just feels kinda flaily and more likely to be genuine uninformed town!skitter trying to find useful things to read from rather than planning out a trajectory to get mislynches.

in terms of counterplay, I think skitter could have gotten quite far just bussing Rex and killing you or Limit. Acryon/Eve have at times looked her way but never seemed too committed to it, I think she could get an Eve lynch, maybe a Molla lynch, Atari and I are both townreading her. I think if she chose to "hard defend" the slip especially given the way the thread has turned even further against Titus, that's a huge gamble here for virtually no payoff as I doubt skitter can singlehandedly save the slot. At the very least I'd expect her to be hard pushing someone pushing Rex, she's not even doing that.

[Auro]

Very hard to push.

I was calling out a Skitter+Titus scumteam before the slip, I doubt bussing is the best strategy here

[GuiltyLion]

okay, but then why does she defend me so much against Titus just now? Why not just ignore Titus' wildly off-base comments and focus on pushing like you or Atari or acryon or something?

I get that I've been probably the most vocal Skitter townreader and maybe she's doing that to try to keep me pocketed, but if she goes too far down that road by engaging with Titus (who seems to be currently insisting on 1v1ing with me) then it has to lead to either her voting Titus (a bus anyways) or somehow reversing and voting me, which would look insanely bad if/when I flip town. Like I can't imagine they planned this interaction on this page in their PT.

you're kinda saying "if Skitter is scum then she would have to do what she's doing right now", but I don't really think that's a convincing argument for her being scum. I can see your points in terms of the associative, but I'm def lynching Titus before Skitter here every time.

[Auro]

They're not convincing arguments for her being scum, rather that these are null and not town indicative.

I'm neutral over who's lynched first.

[GuiltyLion]

Auro what would you think if Titus flips town