Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[northsidegal]

Votecount 5.3

Target	Wagon
NorwegianboyEE (3)	Elements (2537), Firebringer (2538), Green Crayons (2540)
Green Crayons (1)	NorwegianboyEE (2577)
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Isis (2685)
Not Voting (3)	Deimos27, Looker, humaneatingmonkey (2704)

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 5 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-19 20:12:59).

[humaneatingmonkey]

Because you said if votato was scum, you were going to lynch Norwee as well. Can you see Norwee being scum with anyone else in the game right now?

[Elements]

who suggested slowing down momentum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Deimos

[Green Crayons]

^^^ Yeah as I explained I thought that votato and Norwegian couldn't be scum together per wagon analysis, but as the votato lynch sat longer in twilight I kept coming back to I really thought Norwegian was scum independent of votato's alignment.

Let me just ask you this. If you think Norwee was scum, why did you let go of her lynch? Why did you choose to make Day 3 faster than it should be?

I already said:

are you reading all of us with play that you are very broadly bayes theoreming as town or scum as though we are strangers and you feel like you can't know things

or do you feel like in this ninety (!) page game you are rapidly meeting/understanding people and have townreads and scumread based on how those people function

if it is the former i feel like you are hard scumreading votato probably even over norwee and are never giving me an "okay"

if it is the latter I feel like you are longposting atm

former

yes i'm hard scumreading votato

votato and norwegian are in equipoise.

I gave you an okay, thems the breaks

EBWOP: You guys had majority on Norwee

Isis was away and oh holy hell I thought the hammer would have gotten us a flip by now.

[Elements]

I'd prefer to play this day slower to kill scum momentum

Why is it scum momentum?

[Green Crayons]

Can you see Norwee being scum with anyone else in the game right now?

Yeah. Off the top of my head, the only person a Norwegian-scum likely clears based on associations is Isis. Maybe FB. So, everyone else.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay my one-on-one with GC was confusing. I'm townreading him.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I will learn a lot from my townplay after this game ends because I have zero grasp of what's happening right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fire let me know if you want me on the wagon again.

[Elements]

Fire let me know if you want me on the wagon again.

This is Fire, I've hacked Elements account. Put your vote back on we need this lynch.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How much more abuse can this Norwegian guy take?!

[Firebringer]

We can end it for u if u like

[Deimos27]

Deimos if any of your schoolwork is math I will try to help you

I don't like you personally it just seems like it might slightly benefit my wincon

therefore I think you would not be allowed to PM and would have to post your math issues in the thread (or in the scum PT if we are scum together???)

I like math a lot

I have not been drinking right now.

Unfortunately maths is one of my strongest subjects. And I'm gonna assume you don't know enough Finnish to help with Finnish poetry. How much do you know about Nigerian postcolonial literature and Human Resources (the business function)?

Spoiler: 2711

i want deimos to scumread me so i can townread him lol

Why would scumreading you be town-indicative of me? On the contrary, I'm starting to lean town now with some of your recent posts. Can you explain your Firebringer tr? You said he has really good reads, but I know for a fact that he's wrong about me, for instance, and it's pretty hard to trust the reads of someone who is so reticent about their justification.

It's pretty impossible for me to interpret firebringer independent of meta. I prefer to read individual nuances of how Firebringer has played that kind of don't have much to do with wincon rather than try to sort him like a normal player and figure out whether he wants scum to win or wants town to win. That's because, uh, going to try really hard to keep cans of worms shut because i am constantly reconciling trying to like Firebringer with disliking people who don't play to wincon but he kind of doesn't (up to an including a case of scum selfkill).

So with that in mind, it's kind of irrelevant whether his reads are correct. It matters that he's making them and how he's making them. I think I could see him either townreading me or scumreading me if I rolled town against his scum (hasn't happened yet). But I don't see him wavering on a townread on me because it's not fun or memey.

In Alisae v Pine he played extremely antitown and everyone wanted to scumread him, and I mostly had him at 70% townlean all game based on him posting a joke about having scum PT access that I felt would give him pleasure if he did not have scum PT access and would fail to do so if he genuinely did. You can see his signature for an example of a "joke" that would give him pleasure if he had scum PT access. I felt like whether he was benefitting the town wincon was kind of irrelevant.

Here the tr is based on how the way he's constructed his townblock doesn't seem fun for him, and how I kind of don't think he'd find this game that fun as town, and how wavering on a TR of me definitely doesn't seem fun for scum!him (hard flipping on it does, but soft flipping on it seems so off). It's very specific and deliberate that I think the best explanation of him being scum is an utterly, complete, and entire town townblock he has presented to the thread as truth and would actually lose him the game if obeyed.

I think it's too late in the evening for me to figure out exactly how to probabilistically evaluate this information, especially relative to my uncertainty about

your

alignment, so I'll come back to it later. Seems to make sense but I don't know anything about FB's personality so it's like idk what he enjoys or how well he masks emotion.

Why are you all refusing to read GC? Am I being fucked with?

I have a townread on some of his D1 behaviour regarding the Cycle Men wagon, which I can go into if you wish. I generally don't resonate with his POV nor agree with his logic, but though that's psychologically disconcerting, I don't think it's scum-AI.

I wanted you to engage me on Alisae D3 and Norwee D4. You can still redeem yourself by articulating your scumread on the latter so I can understand where you're even coming from with your reads.

i think i already explained alisae townread? Alisae has a more of "in control" kind of play as scum. E never seemed to have control this whole game. E is also better at getting me to do what E wants when E is scum. None of that was present here. The flailing around while getting lynched, the unconvincing arguments. That is more town E than scum E. Scum E can convince me of things. Town E doesn't really.

I didn't ask for Alisae tr, I asked for Norwee sr. My use of the past tense there implied that you should have already engaged me on the days listed, rather than letting us mislynch your tr's with relative apathy.

also since when did i need to redeem myself?

In addition to my annoyance about your behaviour days 3 and 4, I'm also annoyed you initially dodged/missed my follow-up question about your Alisae read, and just now dodged/missed my question about your Norwee read.

I'd prefer to play this day slower to kill scum momentum

Why is it scum momentum?

Did you miss the part of the game where we instalynched three townies in about 5 rl days or less?
I think scum objectively has momentum.

I also have the more selfish reason of wanting long days so I can make smaller daily commitments with exams upcoming. Alternatively we could speedrun this game so its over by, say, the end of Saturday — before my exams even start. That outcome, however, seems risky and inconducive to my wincon.

[Firebringer]

I didn't ask for Alisae tr, I asked for Norwee sr. My use of the past tense there implied that you should have already engaged me on the days listed, rather than letting us mislynch your tr's with relative apathy.

okay well i also explained Norwee scumread. Do you wish for me to repeat myself?

In addition to my annoyance about your behaviour days 3 and 4, I'm also annoyed you initially dodged/missed my follow-up question about your Alisae read, and just now dodged/missed my question about your Norwee read.

Ive been engaging u as much as u go to engage with me. So his "ur dodging/missed" is like ???? U missed my explanation of Norwee scum.

Are u actually annoyed by this stuff or by me scumreading u?

[Firebringer]

I can see maybe ur annoyed cause it seems like i have scumread u all game (and only in my inner thoughts did i ever put u at Null i never voiced it that u left my scumreads) but nothing ive seen from u tells me ur really town.

I never completely bought ur initial townread of me because I don't think u really thought about my scumcase (mostly cause u said u didn't even understand most of the post).
So now i almost want to go back to that response of just waving a townread of me for my scumcase on u originally.

[Firebringer]

btw isis i just got done with running. Feeling good of that runners high.

AMA i am in a good mood.

[Isis]

Is looker town

[Firebringer]

Is looker town

if he is scum, im def not gonna be fooled by this attitude he projects.

He def doesn't seem like he is manipulating anyone in the direct fashion.
So yeah, i think ali was right and he is town.

[Firebringer]

if he is scum, im def not gonna be fooled by this attitude he projects.

i mean by this "if i ever play with looker again this attitude he projects won't fool me"

[Isis]

I don't think he's manipulative as scum though

[Firebringer]

how would u describe his scum game?

[Firebringer]

is his reads look like he is trying to placate anyone? I don't even think that is happening. I don't see him just agreeing with the general players. If he is scum he is going out of his way to do his own little thing in a weird way.

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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