Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is getting disturbing and my crush of u is waning quick

[Firebringer]

i kind of still bet this game on a elements/deimos team tbh

[Isis]

monkey you can scumread me it's okay

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're a dirty dirty scum

[Green Crayons]

i kind of still bet this game on a elements/deimos team tbh

did you say why elements, yet?

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Elements

[Green Crayons]

ew I'm not voting Elements

[Firebringer]

i don't want ur dirty vote, i know where its been.

[Green Crayons]

So cruel.

[Green Crayons]

i kind of still bet this game on a elements/deimos team tbh

did you say why elements, yet?

But really though. Is it in your ISO? I don't want to CTRL+F your ISO if it'll be pointless.

[Firebringer]

i think elements townread on me and isis don't make sense.
I think elements looks bad when i follow his vote history. ill steal a deimos line that he seems like he knows more than he should (he votes scum so much and i can't figure out how he comes to those conclusions but he did)
and i don't think he feels very townie to begin with.

[Firebringer]

elements if scum is playing the game where he busses quite a lot trying to distance. I almost think he is bussing because he thinks those are votes he would be doing as town? But I actually don't think those are the people he would be pushing. I think elements would be pushing players like looker for instance.

Isis u know elements best, what i got wrong.

[Isis]

I'm stressed don't ask me!?!?!?!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Firebringer]

elements had been pushing norwee since like day 2.....i can't find any reason he found norwee scum (someone look again for me, i iz lazy) and yet he basically didn't give a reason while pushing him all the way till he was lynched. Like I know i don't give alot of reasons but i think for someone i had been pushing on/off for like 4-5 days? I would probably have some announced stuff to say of why i am doing it?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fire, if you're right about everything, I think you're one of the most underrated town players on this site.

It's okay, you can put that in your sig.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm half-checked out off this game and I'm not even trying anymore. I feel like I have to change that.

[Firebringer]

Fire, if you're right about everything, I think you're one of the most underrated town players on this site.

It's okay, you can put that in your sig.

i prefer to be known as the funniest town player. tyvm

[Firebringer]

Do Deimos/Elements have any interactions in this game? I was just thinking if those two actually make sense as allies and i was thinking independently they make sense as scum but i am wondering if they even had interaction.

[Isis]

firebringer has really good readds

[Firebringer]

Norwegian and Elements need re-reading. My initial catch-up thoughts were slight leans towards scum!Norwegian and town!Elements but those were back on like page 4 so these folks are first on the to-ISO list.

OHH SO YOU HAD A SCUM LEAN OF NORWEE AND NEVER VOTED HIM HUH!?!??!?!

[Firebringer]

@Norwegian, use your words and explain to me the Elements wagon. All I see in your iso is a naked vote.

would deimos call out one ally for naked voting another ally?

[humaneatingmonkey]

dont pick out posts to fit your narrative. he said he was going to ISO him. he defends Norwee based on VCA.

[humaneatingmonkey]

would deimos call out one ally for naked voting another ally?

my vote is nope

[Firebringer]

I'm relatively convinced Crayons is town now. Norwegian might just be town too.
AMA

Disappointed nobody took me up on this, but I'll explain now that I thought Norwegian is town for his positioning around the Cycle Men wagon.

Spoiler: Norwegian

VOTE: Cycle Man
Weird posts.

Look at Cycle men’s ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

Look at Cycle men’s ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

Look at ABR's ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

I disagree. ABR could be excused by inactivity due to being busy IRL. Meanwhile Cycle men has consistently posted garbage. Showing that they had the potential to make good posts, but did not.

Cycle Man

>joins the game, but not really

im sorry did you expect me to have the game solved in half an hour on page 2?
how hard are you gonna try and force this?

Bruh, your defense would look a lot better if you had posted anything at all that would advance the game prior to this.

keyword: pretending

So who are the ones pretending according to you?

You don't have reads, got it.

There are multiple slots in this game i’d be happy to see get policy lynched tbh.

I'm thinking we should find out who this Clemency guy is and lynch him. He looks pretty scummy.

Cycle man joins the battle, your mom, could go for a burger right now.

Yes, it’s a great entrance!

All this time Norwegian is pushing relatively hard (about as hard as can be expected from the memey low-effort playstyle he promised) and promoting a Cycle Men lynch. At this point it's still possible this is a planned bus to win towncred, but I think he commits rather heavily and for surprisingly long (all the way to L-1) before he, eventually, changes his mind, voting HEM and:

Cycle Men. Is it weird if i consider it town that you’re just as confused as i am?

Cycle men you weren’t this active or solvey before. What changed?

Cycle Men's behaviour did change: he became more active and started to effort somewhat, so I think this is a reasonable change in stance, especially seeing as Norwegian's main qualm with him appears to be his contentless jokeposting play. His mechanisms for the read are different than mine, which is why it feels consistent and natural to move off it.

If the plan was to bus the slot, it's still completely possible. Scum look too much at being consistent at how their reads look rather than being consistent with the reasoning behind their reads. There's reason to think scum!Norwegian here would continue to bus rather than move off, something town!Norwegian does probably almost every time with these lines of enquiry.

Element flip will give much more valuable information than Clemency in my opinion. This excessive concern against the initial wagon from Humaneatingmonkey is pretty weird.

At the end of the day he insists that Elements, whom he scumreads, is better than Cycle Men, whom he's less sure about now and has less clear associative tells according to him (at least regarding Alisae). Surface level analysis says this looks scummy for trying to avoid the Cycle Men lynch, which is why scum might be afraid to do so. In any case it's an awfully weak effort if he really wants to derail the wagon, which reflects his remaining uncertainty about the alignment of Cycle Men and how though he thinks Elements lynch is better, he doesn't think it's

that

much better. If the scum gameplan is to sacrifice Cycle Men, he'd be jumping on. If it's to mislynch, he'd fight at least a bit harder.

Upshot is he's quite consistent about the slot and with how he changes his mind, in ways I don't really expect from scum.

town case on norwee. I don't have analysis for this, just want to note it for me to remind myself to like analyze it later.

[Firebringer]

Isis, Deimos, votato--am I being stupid with this? It looks like scumteam daytalk coordination to me.

Spoiler: Cycle & Norwegian

NorwEE, GC, Elements, Looker

But I want you out of the game after the last page. You prove that you're impossible to sort, and I think you're better flipped than alive.

so you're saying half my scumteam was already on my wagon before your troupe turned back on me

Feels like Alisae just instructed their team to vote me based on the last page alone.

This is super weird. I thought Norweg came up with the idea that the Ail + HME + Isis were a scum group doing a group shift away from cycle to Norwegian. But it was actually Cycle in post 913--literally one minute before Norweg's 914--referring to "your troupe."

Like, the thing that I keep coming back to is that

Cycle first said that Ali/Human/Isis were a scum team switching from Cycle to Norwegian

ONE MINUTE LATER Norwegian in the very next post says that Ali/Human/Isis were a scum team, but doesn’t reference Cycle’s theory

Cycle later seemed to make it look like Norwegian’s idea

Cycle makes the idea look like Norwegian's in Post 935.
Norwegian doesn't refute that he thought the idea was Cycle in Post 1402.

I'll respond to this because I think it's the most interesting part of the Norwegian case. What I don't get is why 935 is Cycle making the idea look like Norwegian's. Cycle never accused Ali of making eir team vote Norwee - that was Norwee himself. It would be weirder if Cycle were to claim that accusation as his own and say something like "because I called you out on it", when he never did. And why would you expect either of them to be commenting on who came up with Ali+HEM+Isis being a scumteam? They are permitted to hold their own opinions on that independently.

If I had to summarize where your mistake is, I'd say it's in equivocating "Ali+Hem+Isis are scum" and "Ali commanded Hem + Isis to vote Norwegian" as ideas. They are distinct.

What's most important here is that Norwegian looks way too much like he's buddying Cycle. That's not scum behaviour here. If he didn't want Cycle to be lynched, he'd be defending him. He never does that. He merely imitates some of the thought processes and looks to be taking his side. Like I disagree that this is scum!Norwee who'd suddenly decided he didn't want a Cycle Men lynch. The way you avoid a lynch isn't by building some vague rapport and closeness, it's by appealing with logic and actually trying to persuade. What Norwee does is the opposite of orthodox scum distancing.

This post was so massively wrong, i want to call deimos town for it.