Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]


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Post Post #3275 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:11 am

Post by Elements »

In post 3273, humaneatingmonkey wrote:So what happened with the GC and the Looker read?
They changed. I'm much more fluid with my reads than anyone else I've encountered which people seem to view as scummy but I think it's the opposite. Scum know stuff and know what they want. Town know nothing and have to react to what happens. My town meta is very very much the latter.
"You can't see how unbelievably wrong you are?" Are you that overconfident that Isis is town?
I'm town. Isis' alignment doesn't matter for that statement to be true.
Is Isis the best at reading you if she fails to articulate why you're town/scum based on meta and if she admitted she didn't remember how to?
Yes.
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It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3276 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:15 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

so why isn't Elements D1 ML'd here, according to you?
and how can you be confident in something that you can't even describe, if you're town and you don't know the alignments of people?
and why does Elements, if town, believe that you're town?
and how confident can you really be in Elements' meta if he's self-aware of it?

Y'all are drawing big confidence conclusions from information that does not exist in this game.
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Post Post #3277 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:18 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

In post 3275, Elements wrote:I'm town. Isis' alignment doesn't matter for that statement to be true.
So is Isis scum?

So am I wrong about Isis?
Elements wrote:They changed. I'm much more fluid with my reads than anyone else I've encountered which people seem to view as scummy but I think it's the opposite. Scum know stuff and know what they want. Town know nothing and have to react to what happens. My town meta is very very much the latter.
Oh I don't doubt that you're fluid. I just want to you to describe the process of change.
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Post Post #3278 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:19 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

Keep scum-spewing, team.
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Post Post #3279 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:21 am

Post by Elements »

and how confident can you really be in Elements' meta if he's self-aware of it?
Meta exists because of the intrinsic difference int one's mindset when play town or scum. There's also the face that I get lynched day 1 so much as town. Why would I want to emulate that as scum?
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3280 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:22 am

Post by Elements »

In post 3277, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
In post 3275, Elements wrote:I'm town. Isis' alignment doesn't matter for that statement to be true.
So is Isis scum?
That's not remotely what I said
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It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3281 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:26 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

In post 3277, humaneatingmonkey wrote:That's not remotely what I said
Okay so why am I not wrong about you and Isis being town. You had to emphasize that Isis' alignment had nothing to do with it. If in your POV she's town, why would you still need to say that?
Elements wrote:
and how confident can you really be in Elements' meta if he's self-aware of it?
Meta exists because of the intrinsic difference int one's mindset when play town or scum. There's also the face that I get lynched day 1 so much as town. Why would I want to emulate that as scum?
Well in this game you were never mislynched as D1. I don't think that matters though. You don't believe scum can emulate their town meta, especially if self-aware?

To the audience who's watching: The points Elements and Isis are fighting here are just hangnails to the body of points that I've made about them.
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Post Post #3282 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:30 am

Post by Elements »

In post 3281, humaneatingmonkey wrote:You don't believe scum can emulate their town meta, especially if self-aware?
I don't believe I can emulate my town meta
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3283 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:31 am

Post by Elements »

In post 3277, humaneatingmonkey wrote: Oh I don't doubt that you're fluid. I just want to you to describe the process of change.
Gut and how I feel at the time. People attacking me makes me think they're more scum. People defending me makes me think they're more town. I do very little analysis.
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3284 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:33 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

In post 3283, Elements wrote:Gut and how I feel at the time. People attacking me makes me think they're more scum. People defending me makes me think they're more town. I do very little analysis.
Did GC, Looker, and Deimos ever push you?
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Post Post #3285 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:33 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

Why didn't you scumread Firebringer?
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Post Post #3286 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:34 am

Post by Elements »

Gut and how I feel at the time.
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3287 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:35 am

Post by Elements »

In post 3285, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Why didn't you scumread Firebringer?
The word more exists in that explanation for a reason.
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It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3288 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:35 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

You don't have real reads.
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Post Post #3289 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 5:38 am

Post by Elements »

you still haven't defined what a real read is
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #3290 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 6:35 am

Post by Elements »

VOTE: human
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Post Post #3291 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 7:33 am

Post by Deimos27 »

HEM your Isis case is hell to follow due to the lack of [post] links. I scrolled through just the first few points and I already disagree with your characterisation.
Can you save me time and summarize what you think the strongest reasons are to believe Isis is scum (top 3, for instance)?
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Post Post #3292 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 7:42 am

Post by Deimos27 »

Still think Elements' ISO is horrendous but in addition to D1 final VC, isn't this original instance of Norwee redirecting momentum onto Elements really weird if he's scum? There was three-way tie FB/Norwee/Elements for the competing wagon to Cycle Men, and Norwee broke the tie by going onto Elements. I doubt this tie breaks onto scum rather than town too many times in 10.
Spoiler:
In post 1075, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 1.33


TargetWagon
Cycle Men
(4)
Deimos27 (), humaneatingmonkey (), Isis (), Elements ()
Firebringer
(2)
votato
(),
Albert B. Rampage
()
NorwegianboyEE
(2)
Looker (), Green Crayons ()
Elements
(2)
Cycle Men
(),
Alisae
()
humaneatingmonkey
(1)
NorwegianboyEE
()
votato
(1)
Firebringer ()
Not Voting
(0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-08 06:42:59).
In post 1104, northsidegal wrote:
Votecount 1.34


TargetWagon
Cycle Men
(4)
Deimos27 (), humaneatingmonkey (), Isis (), Elements ()
Elements
(3)
Cycle Men
(),
Alisae
(),
NorwegianboyEE
()
Firebringer
(2)
votato
(),
Albert B. Rampage
()
NorwegianboyEE
(2)
Looker (), Green Crayons ()
votato
(1)
Firebringer ()
Not Voting
(0)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-08 06:42:59).
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Post Post #3293 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 7:47 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

Fine I'll try to make my case more concise

Give me time.
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Post Post #3294 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 7:48 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

Really weird, but not impossible.

What do you think was the flaw in your VCA defense for Norwee?
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Post Post #3295 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 7:48 am

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

Okay but I have to sleep though so no lynches until I complete this case.
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Post Post #3296 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 8:28 am

Post by Deimos27 »

In post 3294, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Really weird, but not impossible.

What do you think was the flaw in your VCA defense for Norwee?
I usually maintain that to soft-defend the redflip is a towntell because if scum is willing to accept the bad association that results from making that read, they generally want to at least get the returns of preventing the lynch in the short-term, but soft defense is very weak manipulation of gamestate. The short answer is that I didn't expect him to make such a poor play.

The less asshole, more intellectually rigorous answer is that I didn't successfully factor in some elements of his personality. Probably his hyper low-effort posting style should've tipped me off that the tell doesn't apply here, because those brief comments about Cycle Men suddenly being town-solvey or Elements being the better lynch could've genuinely been his best attempt at manipulating momentum.

This also means that scum, or at least Norwee, did in fact change their minds about bussing Cycle Men halfway through D1. Depending on how much we expect scum to be coordinating via daychat, that could also implicate late joiners on the wagon moreso than you or me who contributed to its rejuvenation.
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Post Post #3297 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 8:49 am

Post by Firebringer »

I am going to do a re-read of this game sometime today. Please stay on the line and enjoy the elevator music while I am gone.
Show
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #3298 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 9:53 am

Post by Deimos27 »

My PoE is GC/FB/Looker but none of these slots seem obviously scummy to me. Elements looks optically bad but I don't think he makes sense with associations and VCA. Still stand by my HEM and Isis reads.

I'm sleep-deprived from studying and exams. Will take another crack at this in the morning.
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Post Post #3299 (ISO) » Wed May 20, 2020 10:08 am

Post by northsidegal »

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