[CHALLENGE] May Challenge

[mith]

A simple tweak since I don't need to hit a specific player count:

Delayed Flag Bearer Vengescum 13p

4 Mafia
9 Townies

Vengescum (Mafia only get a nightkill if Mafia is lynched)
After the first Mafia is lynched, the remaining Mafia must choose a Flag Bearer; if the Flag Bearer is lynched, Town wins.

EV is 45.76%.

(And thanks for replacing, Alyssa!)

[TemporalLich]

A strange setup maybe.

Glimmer Of Hope

3 Mafia Goons

1 Town Exile

1 Town 1-shot Poison Doctor

12 Vanilla Townies

The Mafia knows the identity of the Exile.

The Mafia's factional actions depend on M, which is the amount of Mafia Goons and Exiles alive.

The Mafia have both a factional nightkill and a factional announcing poison (target will die the next night and will know they are poisoned) if M = 4.

The Mafia have a normal factional nightkill if M = 3.

The Mafia have only a factional announcing poison (target will die the next night and will know they are poisoned) if M = 2.

The game is nightless if M = 1.

The Mafia has daytalk.

The 1-shot Poison Doctor can cure poison (either on the night they are poisoned or the night they will die) once in the game.

[Isis]

I'm pretty sure it's gotta be optimal player for Exile to selfvote and claim in the first vote. I like the concept a lot but I don't know if the Exile part is workable

[Hectic]

Got some Conspiracy themed setups I'm thinking of running later (Blame Isis for the original/inspiration).

[Hectic]

Triad Conspiracy:

• 9 players
  
• One neighbourhood consisting of 3 VTs
  
  
• One neighbourhood consisting of 3 VTs
  
  
• One neighbourhood consisting of 1 VT and 2 Mafia
  
  
• Neighborhood membership is public.
  
• There is no lynch mechanic. Players discuss the game in the neighborhoods and game thread, and at any time a player may post self-vote in the game thread. If the player who self voted is a member of a neighbourhood that includes mafia, the town wins. If the player who self voted is a member of a neighbourhood that does not include mafia, the group is treestumped. If both town neighbourhoods are treestumped, the mafia win.

Grand Conspiracy:

• 9 players
  
• One neighbourhood consisting of 4 VTs
  
  
• One neighbourhood consisting of 1 VT and 3 Mafia
  
  
• 1 Third Party Gambler
  
  
• Neighborhood membership is public.
  
• There is no lynch mechanic. Players discuss the game in the neighbourhood and game thread, and at any time a player may post self-vote in the game thread. If the player who self voted is a member of a neighbourhood that includes mafia, the town wins. If the player who self voted is a member of a neighbourhood that does not include mafia, the game enters the next phase.
  
• If the self-vote comes from the tttt (town) neighbourhood, they have a chance to vote to guess the identity of the townie in the other neighbourhood. If they choose correctly, town wins.
  
• The Gambler has access to and may talk in both hoods. They must privately place a bet on which hood contains the conspiracy. They can change their bet at any time before anyone has self-voted. They win if they bet correctly.

[Hectic]

Plot and Conspire:

• 9 players
  
• One neighbourhood consisting of 3 VTs and 1 Informed Jester
  
  
• One neighbourhood consisting of 1 VT and 3 Mafia
  
  
• 1 Chronic Gambler
  
  
• Neighbourhood membership is public.
  
• The jester is informed of the mafia in the other hood, and must get someone in their hood to self-vote. They may not do so themselves.
  
• There is no lynch mechanic. Players discuss the game in the neighbourhood and game thread, and at any time a player may post self-vote in the game thread. If the player who self voted is a member of a neighbourhood that includes mafia, the town wins. If the player who self voted is a member of a neighbourhood that does not include mafia, the game enters the next phase.
  
• If the self-vote comes from the tttj neighbourhood, town have a chance to vote to guess the identity of the jester in the tttj neighbourhood. If they choose correctly, they win, and the jester loses. Otherwise, the jester wins, and the town loses.
  
• The mafia must vote to guess one town from the tttj neighbourhood that isn't the self-voter. If they choose correctly, they win. This does not affect whether the town/jester wins.
  

  ---

  
  
• The Gambler has access to and may talk in both hoods. They must privately place a bet on which hood contains the conspiracy. They may also bet on which hood will be self-voted. They can change their bet at any time before anyone has self-voted. If the game enters the next phase, they may bet for who the mafia/town each pick from the tttj hood during the first 24 hours. They may also bet for who the jester is throughout the phase. They recieve a point for each correct bet.
  
• Town/Mafia/Jester each receive 3 points for a win.

[/font]

[Something_Smart]

Guardians of the Fortress

3 Mafia Goons

6 Vanilla Townies

On Day 1, there is no lynching. Instead, at any time a player may sign up to guard the

Gate

, the

Wall

, or the

Keep

. One player may only sign up to guard one location, and players may not change their chosen location. At most two players can be signed up at any one location. If a mafia member has already signed up for a location, a second mafia member may not sign up there.

Day 1 ends when two players have signed up for each location (leaving three players unassigned). Then, the mafia assign the remaining three players such that exactly one mafia is at each location. Location assignments are public.

Finally, the three locations resume as independent three-player minigames, with the following rules:

• At the
  Gate
  , one town player is chosen by the mafia to be confirmed as town, and town must lynch the mafia member to win.
  
• At the
  Wall
  , there are no special rules. Town must lynch the mafia member to win.
  
• At the
  Keep
  , town must vote on one player. If that player is town, town wins; otherwise, mafia wins.

The side that wins a majority of the minigames is the winner.

[mith]

^ this is going to be townsided by EV, I think. If town can randomly generate a list of 6 players and "force" them to guard particular locations, there is a 15/56 chance of assigning two Mafia to the same location. Say AB, CD, and EF are chosen, and sign up in that order, if any pair is Mafia then B (or D or F) will be guaranteed to be revealed as scum when he doesn't guard the same location. Mafia would need to find the Nash equilibrium for how often to refuse to guard in cases where the first player in the pair is town (if they never do this, they are guaranteed to lose that 15/56, and EV would be over 60%), and since the probabilities for the locations are different that's a nasty equilibrium to find so I won't worry about that too much.

In the absolute worst case where scum never fake an all-Mafia pair but town assumes that they have no knowledge on the first player in the pair, and the confirmed scum ends up at the Keep (and this isn't guaranteed - it could be the location chosen for that pair in the first place, or it could be the third scum was assigned there), town needs to win one of Gate/Wall, with probability 2/3, and EV overall is something like 54.46%. Actually EV is going to be close to, if not over, 60%.

(Even if they have no way to randomly generate a list, you can just pick a player to generate the list, if they are town the probability of hitting a pair of Mafia is even higher, and if they don't hit a pair they are somewhat more likely to be scum themselves.)

[callforjudgement]

Why not make it so that three people sign up to guard each location, then the scum gets to swap two pairs of players so that it ends up with one scum at each location? That means that there's nothing that town can do that scum can't also do.

[mith]

That seems like a reasonable change.

[Something_Smart]

Hmm yes you are right about the EV. I don't hate cfj's suggestion though it does cheapen the interesting decisions of the first phase if 44% of the players get moved from the place they chose.

I was trying to think of ways to allow the minigames to work with uneven scum amounts, and I don't think it really does work, but possibly something special could happen if two scum end up in the same group, like maybe all the groups just dissolve and the game becomes nightless or something.

Alternatively I could just change the minigames to make them all scumsided so it balances out.

[Isis]

Is the version that's currently up a revision influenced by cfj and mith's feedback or was it already like that?

[Something_Smart]

It hasn't been modified since I posted it.

[Isis]

I don't understand how you get clears or guilties if mafia control the last three selections

[Isis]

Oh it helps if I'm not an idiot and I realize it's not a 7:2

[Isis]

You could use a scheme where certain VTs are prohibited from joining games with other VTs so that inability to join a minigame is no longer a unique quality. It might be undesirable the extent to which this narrows scumteams. I feel like the minigame swaps will narrow possible scumteams too, though. It might be better just have 2 scum in one neighborhood trigger a setup with different but acceptable EV, like S_S said with going to nightless.

[Kerset]

You haven't said no cult!

Sacrifice our leader

1 Cult Leader
1 Cultist

8 Vanilla Townies

Lynched player are not being removed from game. Their alignment is being revealed and it cannot be changed anymore. They still may vote another players but they cannot be voted.
Lynches are compulsive.

Cult fraction will win, if Cult Leader gets lynched.
Town will win, if Cult Leader doesn't get lynched over 3 days.

[Hectic]

The Golden Fleece

2 Mafia

7 Town

Pregame and each night, the mafia pick two different players (including themselves) to start with the Golden Fleece and Cursed Chalice at the start of the next day. The fleece is not handed out the night before 3p lylo.

At the start of the day, the players holding either are publicly revealed. Anyone holding the chalice or fleece may pass it to another by posting "PASS: PlayerName" in bold.
The chalice may be passed around until 3 players have come in contact with it, and the same applies to the fleece. This changes to 2 once there are 5 players alive.
Anyone who has touched the chalice the same day is eligible to be voted and lynched for the day. Anyone who has touched the fleece the same day is immune from kills the following night.

The chalice and fleece may only be passed for the first 5 days of each phase.
Town win when all mafia are dead. Mafia win when achieving parity with the town, or nothing can prevent this.

[northsidegal]

based on experience with the coalition i think that you shouldn't have separate passing / lynch phases, you should just have voting be normal all the way through except people who haven't been passed the chalice just can't be lynched

i think that would make the actual experience better and more natural, people tend to get weird (and bored) when they can't vote for anyone

interesting setup though. lylo gets weird because you might want town to just get endgamed if the two players that get cursed are town but if you do that then when the game doesn't instantly end it's confirmed that one is scum. i guess in that way the passing of the chalice is sort of like someone casting just a regular vote? the same thing happens in that situation if scum don't quickhammer.

[Isis]

Oh my gods Kerset that's beautiful

[Hectic]

@North: Ah, you're right; I've edited the part about passing being a seperate phase out.

And yeah, that's exactly what lylo ends up being. Scum can give themselves the chalice for *WIFOM* but erase their chances of an easy quickhammer win, or can give a townie the chalice and hope they win equivalent to how they'd win if town voted for each other in a normal lylo.

[mith]

S_S: Maybe just one swap, and scum lose if they are all in the same location (or rather, all town are at two locations).

It’s still going to be townsided, since the EV for the minigame phase is 50% without any other info, but not so much that it wouldn’t be interesting to play.

[Isis]

Got some Conspiracy themed setups I'm thinking of running later (Blame Isis for the original/inspiration).

Somehow my browser loaded past these or something and I didn't see them until now.

What have I caused

[mith]

I quite like the Triad Conspiracy one, FWIW.

[Isis]

I like
that Kerset made up a jestercultist game
using only "Cult leader", "Cultist", "VT", and defining win conditions a certain way.
I'm still not over it