In post 951, enomis wrote: In post 945, Petrichorus wrote:
Next we have the killing of 72 instead of me. And I'll roll this in with townreading. Both enomis and Gyp town-read each other at the end of D3. Let's scum to a D4 with 72offsuit instead of me. 72 would have to look at why he was left alive, scumreading Gyp. Would he assume that Enomis had left him alive to finish off Gyp or Gyp, bluffing to try and push guilt towards enomis? What would scum do and why?
Any townie in this situation has no other information to go on and so, scum would fall in line and just call scum on one other person.
I feel that scum would do the latter. It's what I would do. So, in our current scenario that would make Enomis scum. Coupled with his interactions with Lucky, I'm pretty happy to call it. Enomis, you said you wanted a bet with Micc that lining up you two would be bad for town. I'm willing to take you up on that in spirit at least.
Now let me reiterate why I am town. Yes, I agree that killing of 72 alone does not make me town in anyway. At most it can be scum wifoming.
So why I am
is not just because of this. It is because of multiple factors.
1)
I would have killed you night 2
.
Believe me, I would.
THE BEST POSSIBILITY OF A NIGHTKILL IS USUALLY KILLING A PR
. I really don't get why you think if I was scum, I would kill a person who was at most a townread versus a person who has high chance of being PR.
a) well yes, while USUALLY, a PR kill is better than a VT kill, I doubt that we're in that case, as in the end, at the end of night 2, the numbers of PR's doesn't really matter as long as Enomis felt like he could have a chance getting to Lylo and winning it, and at the time of that post, it seemed like :
Petri was susp of Micc mainly, and probably Enomis afterwards, so overall, he's kind of the perfect guy to keep in what I feel is enomis's plan, it looked like he would've pushed on Micc, but had his reads unstable enough so that they could be influenced later on during the endgame
Tuxedo, on his side, was susp of a Petri / LL team, but, that meant that if he killed Petri, it would've forced Tuxedo to reconsider his reads, and I highly doubt that Enomis would want that kind of wildcard alive
So in sumarry, yes, it makes sense for scum!enomis to kill TM instead of Petri
2)
I NEVER IGNORE MY SCUMBUDDY IN A MAFIA GAME.
I don't know why you put this point as NAI. BUT THIS IS TRUE. YOU EVEN VERIFIED IT THROUGH MY META. And I was not even thinking of bringing up this point until you used
THIS AS A CASE FOR ME BEING SCUM
. And after I being self-meta as defense, you call this being wifom. Really?
So I predicted that you would call me out in this so I purposely ignore my scumbuddy so that I can use this argument as wifom? Do you realise no one other than you took this seriously as even a case against me on day 3. How could I possibly predicted that you would call me out on this to purposely ignore my scumbuddy if i was scum.
b) now that's a pretty badly formulated point, which doesn't really hold a lot of ground
First : meta loses a LOT of value when the player is self-aware of that meta, and I haven't actually watched through your scum games, but I doubt that you NEVER ignore your scumbuddies
Then : is it possible for scum!enomis to have a different playstyle given the context for that game
-you replaced late into D1
-between your post saying you will catch up, and your actual first reads, almost an HOUR passed, and by seeing the content you've put into it, you definetly had time to think of some kind of plays to make (and there was also a lot of time before you actually interacted with peoples, so, even more time for you to try and mix up your meta
Aside from that : "And I was not even thinking of bringing up this point until you used
THIS AS A CASE FOR ME BEING SCUM
. And after I being self-meta as defense"
Well, there's no proof of that, so that means we have to take your word for granted, which I think everyone watching this knows it's just a terrible idea
And finally : yeah we get it, you never ignore your scumbuddies, but even then, what kind of huge, unlikely, and irrealistic coincidence is the fact that LL is litteraly the ONLY person you ignored, you had no reason to do that, you seemed pretty eager on bothering pretty much everyone with asking them to develop stuff, but NO, you NEVER interacted with LL, this is way too much, especially considering that you were totally able of breaking your meta
3)
I was willing to take up a bet with Micc.
Again, I don't know why this is NAI. LETS ANALYSE AGAIN the pros and cons of me taking the bet.
If I am town:
1) If Micc is scum, we lynch scum, we win.
2) If Micc is town, we lynch town and lynch me day 4, we lose. (But I get to win the bet and ask Micc to change his avatar, so personal win for me considering that Micc is well-known in this site.)
If I am scum:
1) Lynch Micc day 3, Lynch me day 4, scum!me lose.
2) Lynch Micc day 3, say I don't want to follow the bet day 4, most likely get called out and lynched, scum!me lose.
WHERE AND HOW DOES A SCUM!ME AGREE TO A BET IF AGREED MEANS AN AUTO-LOSE FOR MYSELF.
So are you saying that I knew that the bet was against the rules and I did this purposely to make town townread me? Really? You think I will stoop that low and question my own integrity just to win one mafia game?
c) I don't belive that point really holds much weight, but let's explain why :
Let's consider things as of D3, you're in a pretty tight position, so some bold plays would really be required, and then, you propose a bet to micc, suggesting him and you as successful lynch order, of course, i don't doubt in your lack of knowledge in the rules, but let's consider what would happen if the bet was to go through D3
at the start of D4, let's say you kill 72, just as you would do without the bet, there's no doubt that petri would at least reconsider seriously if you're the actual scum as
- no one would lolhammer just because you made a bet, pretty sure this is also against game rules, even if bets were to be allowed
-even if you started to back off from your bet i HIGHLY doubt that this wouldn't at least raise serious doubt about your scuminess because you've voluntarily put yourself closer to the lynch
And, lemme point out now that this is the only TRUE WIFOM in this case, rest are just things you presented as wifom for sakes of pushing away the theory of you being scum, while there are actually some rational and realistic explainations behind those
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4)
I kill 72 who scumread gypyx instead of you who looks pretty much convinced that I am scum 99%
So if killing 72/you doesn't matter since it is wifom, why not I kill you instead? TBH, People usually are stubborn and don't re-evaluate their read even though they think they are.
d) I mean, i'd really like some actual facts to back up that claim, i doubt that townies who just go into LyLo with a set scum in mind and never back down from that opinion are many
And then, 72's scum read on me didn't even seem that developed, like it's just 4-5 lines saying that "yeah, tbf i'm kinda leaning towards Gyp scum" (paraphrased of course)
And same for Petri, while I agree that he seems confident on a medium-level about his enomis read, him surviving the night has a pretty big impact on his confidence about that read, at least in theory
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For the above 4 points, let's say you take one point as wifom.(Although some points are not even possible as WIFOM, like point 3) But Could i be WIFOMING again and again just to make this argument? If you look at the basis of these actions without WIFOM, all of them are hurting scum!me and bad for scum!me.
If you are saying I cut myself/do one thing that is bad for scum to wifom. That I understand. But to cut myself again and again and put scum in the worst position
JUST TO WIFOM
?
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I really feel like I am banging my head against the wall here. You need so little to townread Gypyx but you are unable to townread me over THINGS THAT ME AS SCUM WONT DO ESPECIALLY POINT 3. AND THE OTHER POINTS TO A LARGE EXTENT.
