Open 779: Pick Your Power X/Y Game Over!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I’m inclined to look offwagon as a jumping point

VOTE: jv

Fair. I personally think one scum is on-wagon and one is off.

Why? Who’s scum on and off wagon?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why did you hood skitter, drew?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Vote Count 2.01

Farkran (1)

- Doctor Pepper

JacksonVirgo (2)

- Skitter30, Cat Scratch Fever

Dunnstral (2)

- Not_mafia, Farkset

datisi (1)

- DonCorleone

DonCorleone (1)

- Dunnstral

Not Voting (5) :[/b] Iconeum, Skitter30, Doctor Drew JacksonVirgo, Almidia,

With 12 Alive, 7 Votes To Lynch.
Deadline is in: (expired on 2020-06-03 10:00:00)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler:

[alimdia]

as in i'm not convinced he's telling the truth but i'm not sure that lying about it makes him scum

I don't see any town motive in counter claiming cop when you aren't the cop, given that the claimed cop just claimed a result, and will likely continue to give results.

CSF, can you confirm DC's claim that you are town

[Farkset]

I counter claim cop

Oh, how nice, i sense another scum going down. Today it's dunn vs don i guess.

To be honest i thought DC claim was a joke, but since he went ahead with it, there's probably a high chance that he is the true cop. It doesn't make a lot of sense for DC to lock himself into a cop claim when he was nowhere near under pressure, on the other hand dunnstral is in a terrible position today and an attempt to wifom the true cop down seems a legit scum move.

I'm fine lynching dunnstral first. If you're town, you should claim your results.

-Farkran

Except why directly claim a role that you're not as scum? That's the easiest way to just die. I think one is fake-claiming Town and the other is the real person who picked the Cop/[whatever the second one was].

i low-key think dunn could be town but not cop

Town fakeclaiming cop is gamethrowing, i'm not going to accept that.

Scum fakeclaiming cop is explained because if they don't lynch the cop they lose

Any vote outside dunn or dc is also gamethrowing in my eyes, if town specifically wants to lose this game i'm not going to have a part in it

-Farkran

[Iconeum]

I counter claim cop

If you are the cop then you investigated DonC surely to determine if he's scum, in which case we get a good lynch today bringing scum down to 1. Otherwise you get certainty he is town trying to bait a NK away from the actual cop.

Outside of this the only reason you have to actually CC at this point, is a red check on someone else.

[Iconeum]

I counter claim cop

Oh, how nice, i sense another scum going down. Today it's dunn vs don i guess.

To be honest i thought DC claim was a joke, but since he went ahead with it, there's probably a high chance that he is the true cop. It doesn't make a lot of sense for DC to lock himself into a cop claim when he was nowhere near under pressure, on the other hand dunnstral is in a terrible position today and an attempt to wifom the true cop down seems a legit scum move.

I'm fine lynching dunnstral first. If you're town, you should claim your results.

-Farkran

Why aren't you thinking about implications about Dunn counterclaiming?

[Iconeum]

they need to lynch the cop now otherwise it's pretty much autoloss for them.

Then we can lynch outside of the claims & outside of the 1's and see what happens.

Exactly. If this does go to a 1V1 with neither claim backing down, we lynch outside of them and force scum to kill the cop or we lynch inside them tomorrow and prove which information was accurate.

[Iconeum]

Town fakeclaiming cop is gamethrowing, i'm not going to accept that.

Wrong. Town!DC fakeclaiming cop on D1 is perfectly acceptable as it might draw the scum NK on a VT.
IF DC doesn't retract his claim, we have 2 cop claims and we are NOT lynching in them today.

Both will produce a result tomorrow, or the real cop will die. If both alive tomorrow, we lynch in them and have a couple clears or a clear and a guilty.

The ONE thing that would be awfull here is that DC is actually the cop and Dunn is town who fake COUNTER claimed.

[Iconeum]

Fark if my vote on Alim was that awfull, how come you don't mention me being on the scum lynch? It's not a clear on me by a mile, but not mentioning it is at least bleh.

[alimdia]

I counter claim cop

If you are the cop then you investigated DonC surely to determine if he's scum, in which case we get a good lynch today bringing scum down to 1. Otherwise you get certainty he is town trying to bait a NK away from the actual cop.

Outside of this the only reason you have to actually CC at this point, is a red check on someone else.

Its bad to have 2 cop claims because if a town doctor exists, they won't know who to protect.

[Farkset]

It's a terrible and inefficient strategy.

1) lying as town at this point in time will not prevent the nk, it attracts a lynch and screws all reasoning for the rest of the game
2) if both cops are left alive we invalidate the doctor

I'm never going for that and should never be considered as a viable option

-F

Pedit: no it isn't - DC claimed a result today. It's no longer an acceptable fakeclaim if you are luring out the true cop. Clearing players like that screws with the dayplay in a much worse way than losing the cop via nk. The counterclaims must be solved today.

[alimdia]

Maybe scum already tried killing DC via 1 shot vig, and so they have to force a 1v1. Either way this is why DC needs to either retract his claim or fully commit.

[Farkset]

Fark if my vote on Alim was that awfull, how come you don't mention me being on the scum lynch? It's not a clear on me by a mile, but not mentioning it is at least bleh.

1258 though

[Iconeum]

It's a terrible and inefficient strategy.

1) lying as town at this point in time will not prevent the nk, it attracts a lynch and screws all reasoning for the rest of the game
2) if both cops are left alive we invalidate the doctor

I'm never going for that and should never be considered as a viable option

-F

Pedit: no it isn't - DC claimed a result today. It's no longer an acceptable fakeclaim if you are luring out the true cop. Clearing players like that screws with the dayplay in a much worse way than losing the cop via nk. The counterclaims must be solved today.

1) it gives us a TON of information come tomorrow providing Dunn claims his result by the end of the day.
2) there isn't even confirmation we HAVE a doctor, and if we do it's not even sure he's town.

Like i said, everything depends on what Dunn did if he is actually the cop. If he has a green check on DonC, he played terrible by claiming now, which means I don't think that is what he did.

Dunn most likely CC'd because he has a red check.

[Iconeum]

Yeah I don't agree with your 1258.

Dunn just CC'd cop, and I was on the scum lynch. That's enough justification to lynch neither of us.
I do agree that Alim is probs town.

[Iconeum]

What does everyone think of the NK by itself? It's awfully low for scum to shoot in, and there was even a cop claim.

[Iconeum]

Maybe scum already tried killing DC via 1 shot vig, and so they have to force a 1v1. Either way this is why DC needs to either retract his claim or fully commit.

oh missed this.

Yeah there's a chance. Definitely agree that DC needs to take a stance before continuing this discussion

[Farkset]

Dunn should out his result before anyone is lynched today, that's for sure. I agree that he could not have a green check on DC because that would be immensely stupid. A different green check should have been held until/if dunn was forced to claim. A red check should be outed immediately, but the lynch is still dunn to verify if the result is accountable, then -if it was- day 3 we lynch the red check and d4 we lynch DC.

Lynching elsewhere is a very bad strategy. If DC retracts the claim, i'll lynch DC. He shouldn't have forwarded a green result if he was fakeclaiming town.

-F

[Iconeum]

Dunn should out his result before anyone is lynched today, that's for sure. I agree that he could not have a green check on DC because that would be immensely stupid. A different green check should have been held until/if dunn was forced to claim. A red check should be outed immediately, but the lynch is still dunn to verify if the result is accountable, then -if it was- day 3 we lynch the red check and d4 we lynch DC.

Lynching elsewhere is a very bad strategy. If DC retracts the claim, i'll lynch DC. He shouldn't have forwarded a green result if he was fakeclaiming town.

-F

Well no. There's a few scenario, in neither one we are lynching DC.

DC retracts claim, Dunn has red check. We lynch red check.
DC retracts claim, Dunn has green check. We still don't lynch DC because he is probably town for the play in the first place.
DC doesn't retract claim, Dunn outs red check. We lynch red check.
DC doesn't retract claim, Dunn outs green check. We lynch neither claim and see where the NK goes. Probably mass claim next day. Next day, both claim results and we move off of that.

[Iconeum]

Ofcourse i'm ignoring a few Obvious elephants here, which are the fact that 2 players at the bottom are claiming cop. the claimed cop didn't get NK'd, and the fact that Melody got Nk'd for whatever reason and not the first pick (or 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th).

[Farkset]

Answering 1345 is a guide to what to do for scum so i won't answer that before DC answers, but the lynch is always between DC and Dunn today, there are zero alternatives about it.

[Iconeum]

Two scummy counterwagons take more than the deadline timer and never reach more than 5 votes

A flashwagon starts and reaches L-3 over a single RL night

That's not where i am gonna vote, sorry. I agree with the general reasoning that most vocal players are usually town, but i think aldus also fits with the lurk-ish description and if scum is refusing to take a stance it's because there is at least one correct wagon in the two current highest, not because they are happy with the gamestate. This is not a peen contest, it's mafia logic.

Even not considering that, i don't feel alimdia scummy in a vacuum and i have seen town!him play similar to this in the undertale game.

-Farkran

UNVOTE:

i'm rereading the build up to the lynch and i don't think this comes from scum

[Iconeum]

Answering 1345 is a guide to what to do for scum so i won't answer that before DC answers, but the lynch is always between DC and Dunn today, there are zero alternatives about it.

Ok we'll just call it disagreeing on the matter, but i don't think your view on this is scummy.