Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[DkKoba]

(please please please especially if I die N1 whoever is alive and sees this post please keep in mind my previous post because I don't want town to forget about this)

I never got killed

[DkKoba]

sorry stopped reading for a bit bc im about to co-host a forum game on another site and im getting my google docs setup.

[DkKoba]

the curse of being an american in a game with a bunch of europeans

[DkKoba]

just noticed one of enomis' games finished and their attitude in that game was extremely different as town than in this game viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82865&start=950

[DkKoba]

as if they are fatigued here

[DkKoba]

i feel very lonely

[Apogee]

Sorry I’ll try to look at enomis meta later I really need to search joqiza and enomis post more to figure out if there is any chance this is a scumpair

[DkKoba]

one thing i noticed is that regardless of pushing enomis as scum is that joqiza eventually would be like "well they're probably town" in a way. (i havent looked at the posts but i remember seeing something like that distinctly)

[Apogee]

Yup I saw that on a reread and it caused hesitation because before that I was ready to clear enomis

[DkKoba]

god i had like 500 tabs open with different pages. im gonna have a drink so i can mull d1 over. I'm not gonna really bother with d2. you guys should read d2 for me bc I know its most indicative of me since I did goof. I am just really perplexed that out of everything no one even pushed me for defending joqiza d2.

[Apogee]

Shrug I was pushed less than I expected for defending joqiza d2 as well...

[DkKoba]

Shrug I was pushed less than I expected for defending joqiza d2 as well...

we gotta be fair tho, ydrasse's push came out of left field.

[DkKoba]

I feel so dumb tho that i didnt recognize a potential cop push.

i would hardclaimed cop with a guilty on joqiza myself if i saw it.

[DkKoba]

And I'm aware I've used manipulative tactics to get people to follow me this game, but thats not alignment indicative for me, thats just something that makes me strong as both alignments as I push people to follow me regardless. It helps a lot when in games people generally follow what you're doing. I do get more subdued if my partner is more loud but thats about it.

[DkKoba]

I wanna lay out all my "sins" on the table so to speak i guess.

[DkKoba]

ugh i am like so nervous and frustrated. I feel like i am like so close to solving but its just like i have these doubts in my head. but im like just using my standard logic of actions - > intent -> reasons etc and enomis' most recent content speaks to a scum motivated push. its like usually im a catalyst in games for scum pushing on me and trying to get an easy lynch off me or just to discredit me and i have just found like that I am able to detect scum when they are wagoning me.

[DkKoba]

I've invested so much into this game I feel really dedicated to win, especially with my last loss in newbie 1997 where I mindlessly tunneled people and didnt reevaluate properly by assuming a different site meta. Especially after joqiza flipped scum I felt a push to not let him beat me. I already feel dirty that he tricked me, although it was mostly my own fault when I had my nagging suspicions about him on d1 and I didnt act on it bc I had biases towards him

[DkKoba]

I'm off to bed now but I hope people read my points and reconsider a bit on the game state. Looking at you votato.

[DkKoba]

i see votato posted in lobby chat at 23:20 my time which is inbetween the 2 previous posts which is annoying that they didnt care to check this thread.

[votato]

what makes you think im not reading or thinking? i just dont have much time to do a wallpost, which is really the only thing i could do atm without input from the other slots.

[DkKoba]

too scared to put ur thoughts on the table like I have?

[votato]

yep. im really trying to lurk here, leave me and my 400+ posts alone so we can go totally unnoticed.

[Maduisha]

Was this a reaction test to see if DK would bite the bait proposal or were you serious? I'm guessing you can answer now since they have already rejected it.

Also, Votato, you speak about DK ignoring your questions, but you didn't answer mine and I'm really concerned about the meaning of that sudden offer. Was it actually serious?

yeah more or less. i really think this game needs Dk flipped. and if im unsuccessful in convincing people that im town tomorrow, or unsuccessful in convincing people of my solve, the at some point i lose regardless, and i'll probably just give up and accept defeat. i came pretty close to doing that yesterday or the day before. if you're alive tomorrow it doesnt really matter what i say for example, because you've decided that im scum 100%, so ill never convince you otherwise. DK doesnt seem to be open to logic right now. but that could be coming from hubris combined with paranoia. maybe.

and in the scenario where he claimed, if there really was a doctor, then mafia would never shoot ydrasse. they would simply roleblock ydrasse and kill another slot, knowing that the doctor would have to protect ydrasse. the doctor can stop bullets, but nothing can stop the roleblocker. having an IC is better for mafia than risking that their kill is stopped by the doctor.

Yeah but doesn't that last bit of your logic imply you don't actually believe DK is scum? I'm gonna try to break it down so it's easier to see what I'm saying. Let's examine the scum!DK scenario you are proposing:

- DK is scum.
- There was never any chance of doctor and that's why Ydrasse is dead.
- DK claimed the doctor role twice. Ydrasse is dead so people already suspect there's no doctor to being with. How does this move make sense as scum for DK? The only purpose I can see to it is to weed out a potential real doctor, but that doesn't really work because people would want to lynch both doctors to find the remaining scum if there are two. And it also doesn't really work because of what I said before; a doctor existing implies they got discovered and roleblocked and if that happened then they would have outed themselves already at the beginning of the day and DK would have nothing to "rolefish" for in the first place.

And to address the first part of your post, you're striving to lynch DK, then you are telling me that in the case they are not scum, you are screwed because the real scum will lock you in lylo with me and let me vote you first and end the game. What I'm seeing here is that you don't actually believe in the lynch you are proposing because the actions realized by DK don't really tie with what you think mafia is doing. And wanting to lynch someone you don't actually believe is scum while also saying "man if I get to lylo it's lost because they'll force the person tunneled on me into it" feels like you're trying to make me reconsider for lylo (which I understand). I can see how this last bit can come from town, but the scenario you are painting doesn't really make much sense to me. So, you'll have to understand that it's hard not to tunnel when you seem to be proposing a lynch that you yourself aren't buying much.

[Maduisha]

best reason: lynch all lurkers.
worst reason: i mostly like the content when there is content. I think you're more likely scum. i think re-reading the part of the game where i was pushing at you, midway, and maduisha will probably shed light. in particular, what did joq do? i feel like you have kind of skated by this game.

as a mod that likes to root for scum teams, datisi is sitting in his mod PT laughing at us for being incompetent

hes also gonna quote this PM and laugh extra at me. ::((((((((

This post also makes me think you might have more reasons to push Apogee than DK? So, why DK...

[Maduisha]

just noticed one of enomis' games finished and their attitude in that game was extremely different as town than in this game viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82865&start=950

as if they are fatigued here

Understandable considering the flow of that game is very different (finished in 39 pages even though it lasted a month or so). This one reached over 100 pages because it happened to contain several users that like making lots of small posts, and some people work better when there are less posts that contain more condensed thoughts. It could also be that he rolled scum and dislikes it like you said, but I think we have to be honest and admit not all environments are the same either, so it's natural that they produce a different reaction out of people.