Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[DkKoba]

apogee, look at DkK's ISO today and yesterday. there is shockingly little in the way of content. lots of distracting spam, a few weak arguments. whenever people make arguments against Dk, Dk immediately deflects and then starts spamming the thread to move the conversation away from the case against him. Dk also has really strange progressions. Day 1 he townreads me, but then days 2 and three suddenly its a scumread and he says i pocketed him. today as pressure mounted he has resorted to screaming and deflecting, but if you look through the ISO theres actually not that much gamesolving. He moved his vote around a little to try and look like he was re-evaluating, but there wasn't much evidence of actual thinking going on below the surface of the vote movement.

I will do a long and grudging DkKoba ISO read (all almost 800 points ugh) because honestly this single post is perhaps the best thing you could have said in a mix of tone and content besides some incredible game-solve case.

p-edit. Yes fakeclaim is strange. I was moderately concerned that you dismissed it so out of hand but if you are actually seeing the game clearly with DK scum its probably justifiable.

uhh, although i want dkkoba lynched, I wouldn't advise you to do the iso. I think rewardxeffort is not there.

But if you are up for it, go for it

Obvscum line.

[DkKoba]

Maduisha im disappointed in your tunnel on votato

[Apogee]

Maduisha im disappointed in your tunnel on votato

What

[DkKoba]

Votato i never said i fucking townread you. Stop lying.

[votato]

Im on a bathroom break. Ill be back in an hour or so

you need more fiber in your diet

[votato]

I hardclaimed ofc i am!

ydrasse u should randomly check between enomis/votato, don't confirm your check now because mafia will act on that assumption.

cop check should be between: enomis/votato.

votato claimed VT tho so he's the most optimal choice here.

DkK i think you should be careful about what you say here. the game isnt over

yeah sorry im the doc, im dead tonight!

yep here is the hardclaim (these posts are in reverse order). the middle quotes are super duper interesting. as town I'd want the cop on me to help clear me.

No as town i want cop to not go on obvious town(me) and instead i want to find last scum.

yeah but you're only obvtown to yourself. i know im town, but a cop getting an innocent on me would be pretty cool right about now. (hint hint, ydrasse)

[DkKoba]

votato if you flip town and keep tunneling me im gonna dodge any table with you. You're not playing in good faith at all

[DkKoba]

You have a basic understanding of mafia and it shows please stop trying to pretend you're some sort of mafia god who thinks they know best

[DkKoba]

This game will be a joke if i end up lynched.

[Maduisha]

what do you think of enomis maduisha

I think he's town for the reasons I said before. I don't think scum checks out from the game as hard as Enomis and Clemency did, so while the playstyle is kind of harmful, I really can't see it as scummy. Especially when he said we could hammer him D1 showing that he actually did not care (and that's kinda softing VT so I don't think scum throws away fake claiming this easily, lol). As of latest posts, I find he's following gutpings from D1 which can feel infuriating for you, and I feel his post in 3001 is a bit of a reach because he's using wording from you talking about an hypothetical scum!You scenario to nitpick. But his post in 3010 actually has some good points even if I don't buy the wagon. He might have scarce content, but when he does produce content, I don't see the logic line coming from scum is all I'm saying.

[Maduisha]

my vote on you was a reaction test. scum!apogee would be more likely to want to hammer me for voting him. plus now you have extra incentive to hammer me since im coming after you tomorrow. Dk if i get lynched today you should go after apogee tomorrow. enomis i dunno between Dk and apogee who you should push. probably Dk though. maduisha, good luck in the afterlife. i hope you re-evaluate and that hindsight is useful for introspection.
VOTE: DkKoba

pedit: that said enomis, if i can convince people to vote apogee i would totally lynch there.

This post kinda pings me again (ye, I know, Maduisha tunneling Votato, nothing new...) because you seem to know what Apogee does as scum. Do you have a source for scum!Apogee meta? Please share. And apparently he passed your reaction test, but you still insist you'd lynch Apogee here.

at this point i really hope you are the lynch either way, scumboy

And then this... it's like you

know

there'll be a next day and you're setting Apogee up to look scummy so you can vote him first comfortably.

[DkKoba]

enomis is slanking and yall are blind to it

[DkKoba]

votato gives me massive ego vibes with their hardheadedness to stay on me

[DkKoba]

and joqiza knows full well how to do scum theater so him going after enomis is within the realm of an association read

[Apogee]

I'm sorry DkKoba maybe I am just too newbie to see this but I don't think the Enomis/Joqiza interaction D1 could come from scum. Enomis's lack of thread presence while annoying in some ways doesn't read scummy enough to top that doubt to me.

[Apogee]

Does Joqiza really call his scumbuddy his prefered d1 lynch and make it a top wagon?

[DkKoba]

Did he follow through on the wagon?

[DkKoba]

Do you know what "scum theater" is?

[Apogee]

I am aware of scum theater yes.

[DkKoba]

that push was garbage and joqiza ended up being flimsy about it and didnt really push it. Sorry im not buying it.

[DkKoba]

i had to ask joqiza to even vote enomis with me which he probably did bc he wanted me in his pocket.

[Apogee]

Uhhh I'm pretty sure that is wrong -- First vote on Enomis on that wagon is joqiza before the 850 votecount:

Also, this doesn't read like scum theater to me.

Enomis

Cites some basic mechanics in their intro post, I consider that NAI given it’s a newbie game. Questions both Apogee and Clemency immediately based on misconstruing their words, interpreting their statements in the most literal way possible, possibly a slight language barrier. Super questionable how they double down both on the scumslip and on pretty much everything DkKoba says, also their TR on Apogee makes absolutely no sense, I rr post #65, dude TRs Apogee because they are “genuinely scumhunting” because they are using the term “wolf” and newb town wouldn’t do that? Dafuq?? On Post #301 has an absolutely garbage teamread on me/Koba which I think he knows he can’t even commit to, let me ask you something, have you EVER seen one scum partner say “my partner is hard town I will never vote them until I die” on DAY 1 of a game where you have TWO mislynches? Answer is no, that is never a scumteam and any experienced player should know that. Remains obsessed with pushing clemency as of #303 for more nai statements after I already clarified why their logic on Clemency’s slip doesn’t make sense, really seems to be working backwards from a “Clemency is scum” which they’ve already decided on, so at best is confirmation bias, at worst is scum-motivated. Analysis: scum read

Enomis

First thing I’m gonna do is re-hash my initial read on enomis, which remains relatively unchanged.

Enomis

Cites some basic mechanics in their intro post, I consider that NAI given it’s a newbie game. Questions both Apogee and Clemency immediately based on misconstruing their words, interpreting their statements in the most literal way possible, possibly a slight language barrier. Super questionable how they double down both on the scumslip and on pretty much everything DkKoba says, also their TR on Apogee makes absolutely no sense, I rr post #65, dude TRs Apogee because they are “genuinely scumhunting” because they are using the term “wolf” and newb town wouldn’t do that? Dafuq?? On Post #301 has an absolutely garbage teamread on me/Koba which I think he knows he can’t even commit to, let me ask you something, have you EVER seen one scum partner say “my partner is hard town I will never vote them until I die” on DAY 1 of a game where you have TWO mislynches? Answer is no, that is never a scumteam and any experienced player should know that. Remains obsessed with pushing clemency as of #303 for more nai statements after I already clarified why their logic on Clemency’s slip doesn’t make sense, really seems to be working backwards from a “Clemency is scum” which they’ve already decided on, so at best is confirmation bias, at worst is scum-motivated. Analysis: scum read

With enomis I have not gotten the sense that any of his reads are genuine, whether it be scumread OR townread.
Let me quote part of post 65 which is probably one of the most damning IMO:

Publishing my reads so far:

Apogee

- Town Lean. Feels like genuinely scumhunting and using terms like "wolf" which sometimes newb town uses because they are not used to calling scums "mafia".

Clemency

- Scum Lean. For the scumslip and a few other stuff which i don't like.
Also:

statistically speaking everyone is town until proven otherwise

Feels like a convoluted way to explain the slip. I don't know, probably NAI.
Then:

UNVOTE:
i think other slots are higher priority to push rn
i'd pick one if i wasnt walking home atm

But went ahead to post a few posts without pushing anyone.

My vote stays on Clemency until I find someone else scummier.
@Clemency: I would like to see your push on someone else.

I would like to go ahead and add Post 166 to the case file: seems to express intent to have DkKoba lynched despite referring to them in a town which implies they think they are town.

Enomis has avoided engaging me since I entered the game and has basically slipped away from any of my attempts to point out the flaws in his logic. None of his reads make any sense to me, and in the past couple days his content has dried up completely.

The last reason I scumread him is entirely speculative/admittedly a reach, but I think it may possible that enomis is slipping maf knowledge at several points in the game. Post 202 potentially reads as a slip of midwaybear being town, and there is another post I can’t find rn but might look for later where I thought enomis might be slipping Maduisha as town as well.

I have been asking for them to re-evaluate the Clemency slot, and, in general, play the game in a more holistic manner for a long time now, and they are (along with Clemency himself) one of the players who has most steadfastly refused to do so. As a result, I believe that even if I’m wrong and they are town, they are still an adequate lynch today in terms of playing to the larger town win condition, I do not want them going forward to tomorrow or possibly LYLO. I do not trust their logic nor their reads, and I find a lot of their posts insincere. This is the only player at the table that at the moment I can say I genuinely and truly scumread.

TL;DR/Summary

The three lynches I have really considered today are Maduisha/Apogee/enomis, and of those three my strong preference is enomis. This is not a reaction test nor a “push for content,” as of rn my intent is to have enomis in the graveyard unless he comes back and truly drops thunder and makes me re-evaluate. I have learned to keep an open mind about these things but rn the urge to death tunnel within me.

To give some space for discussion/re-evaluation, @enomis, what I would want is a read list, and who you would want lynched if it were not you, and why.

If there is a 4th player I would throw into my above lynchlist, it would be votato, simply because he seems more capable as a player and there are certain red flags which I’ve noticed. That said, if he is scum he is playing fairly well IMO and he was the first person outside of Koba to actually take initiative and try to evaluate my slot, even if the attempt was surface-level, in my personal experience this has been strongly strongly town-indicative.

The rest of the players at the table I don’t really want lynched today for reasons I’m already talked about. To be honest, as of rn I am evaluating every single one of my TRs, but I think this is an inter-day thing, I want enomis lynched and if I am alive on Day 2 then I come back and re-think everything based on the information from his flip.

It’s about 2am my time and I have work tomorrow so I’m probably not going to respond to any questions for awhile, but I should be around a bit for my lunch break and tomorrow evening.

VOTE: Enomis

if someone TRs enomis i want to know why, and if they think someone elses will make a better lynch i want to know why as well, i am rereading the bear/votato interactions

post edit: why is dk scum

i just isoed enomis... i don't understand, how has this guy survived the rope, is he tickling ur guys balls or something?

i don't really know if I want to lynch enomis anymore actually. I didn't get a chance to follow up earlier unfortunately but I would like to at least talk again if we get the chance. I play sort of a self-centered game and it felt like he was purposely avoiding my slot for most of the game, but i can't help feeling like we might just be ships in the night. he felt really genuine in some ways so if he's town i want to give him some more chance to towntell. that goes for all of my sr's really, like i don't think enomis/clemency are the tea despite what people are saying, i feel like if they were there were plenty of opportunities for enomis to let me "talk him out" of his read of clemency, instead of just disappearing. enomis/maduisha still makes a lot of sense in my head, but quick's behavior in the last couple days hsa been really weird and i don't understand why he keeps mentioning PR's unless he is just blatantly trying to fish for roles lol, like i just don't get why town would ever do that. anyway it's for sure that at least one of enomis/maduisha/quick is town so i would rather just give them all a chance to towntell before we hammer anything. idk where enomis is though

[Apogee]

1504 could be him trying to end the wagon, but one person already left the wagon at that point

[Apogee]

Or rather that is about the time votato hops off hmmm.

[DkKoba]

im like 90% sure i had to ask joqiza to vote with me on someone