Mini Theme 2145: The Weakest Link Game over

[midwaybear]

Midway and raya are my new scumreads

YES

NO

[TrueSoulEnergy]

I’m pretty busy and have no clue if I have the chain.
If I do.

VOTE: Midwaybear

[Starbuck]

^^ Wut?

[Raya36]

When I initially voted unwnd chainleader, I was under the impression that Raya was going to be pushing for beeboy - instead he instantly hammered unwnd in a post that came out in the same minute - now, to be fair, he also had some analysis to go with that, so it's like... I asked if there was no p.edit in pts but apparently there is.

Just to follow up on this, yes private topics have p.edits but I have a bad habit of ignoring them. I should have checked because if I knew I was about to hammer I would've waited but honestly Unwnd is a better choice anyway and majority was in agreement with that so I'm not too hung up about it.

I think you need to consider that failing a quiz = town knows there's scum in a group of players

But given bboy and unwnd, I think it is possible scum also has a pr that tampers, at least once, with quiz. Though, I'm undecided yet on how that balance out against:
- anytime scum is in the chain = mislynch
- anytime scum is in the qt = scum advantage


---> Without the numbers, and on first glance that looks way scumsided to me.

If you wanna run the numbers.

This could be scum wanting us to not look too hard into the quiz group for scum?

@raya and spring: what are your thoughts on scum in the quiz pt?

I need to seriously reconsider my reads on everyone in the quiz team. The most scummy is spring I think though

Cheetory once modded a game called paint mafia.
Town assumed without night actions the information couldn't be tampered with for the day 1 result and we had a confirmed result of someone being town.
Town lost that game because it was information that could be tampered with during the day as a 1-shot.

I don't see why we would assume that information is definitive when the reward for passing the quiz is so absurdly powerful (conf town + power role), it definitely feels like pass/fail takes priority over the information behind who is in the team from a game design point of view. Are you all just assuming MariaR, the list mod whose been dedicated to this game for years wouldn't realize the quiz creates conf town?

The thought process being it sure would be unreasonable if scum could tamper with this is incredibly wack to me. It makes perfect sense given town can tamper with scums ability to fail the quiz... :/

But it's much much more likely for scum to be on the quiz team than for the quiz team to be entirely town. The quiz part of the setup is already scumsided in my opinion. Having the ability to tamper with it as well would be very overpowered and very unfair for town.

[Pink Ball]

I’m pretty busy and have no clue if I have the chain.
If I do.

VOTE: Midwaybear

Sweet, so now we know we have to leave you for the final 2

[Raya36]

Posting a readslist I was using to figure things out. I do need to reanalyze though because I'm running on the assumption that scum was in the quiz.

[Raya36]

Read List:

Town:
-beeboy - Not much to say here. Scum doesn't claim NU in post 10 in a game like this where you'd want to try to get put on the quiz team as scum. Wouldn't make any sense. His posting is obvtown too anyway.

-Pink Ball - The reaction test was something from town not scum. Also I read Unwnd as town, if both Unwnd and SirCakez were town then scum!PB would have gotten rid of the claimed PR, not the VT. If PB is scum then that means Unwnd must be scum as well since he wasn't lynched and I find this unlikely since I TR both.

-unwnd - The claim sounds genuine (although could be a scum role but I'm leaning for it being town) and his posting at the end of the game sounds genuine town as well. As was discussed his claim could make sense to be town alongside BeeBoy's role. Trying to keep track of reasons for passing the chain is good too. Also his 1486 is what a townie would say when they are hammered.

-farside22 - Farside comes across as town to me. Mainly it's a gut read but I trust it. Mainly her posting has come across as town and I don't see any agenda from her reads. We have had some similar reads as well. There are a few things she has done like backing of off ABR when he couldnt be lynched instead of tunneling for example that are deserving of light townreads. Her posting comes across as genuine solving. I like her D2 posting and quiz PT posting a lot as well.

-Starbuck - She just comes across as genuine. I don't agree with all her reads but she explains them all and I think she believes them. She seems to be genuine at the start where she talks about the struggle she's having since she hasn't played in a long time. Also she knows almost none of us so that's understandable. Her catch ups seemed good. My main concern with them is that most players can probably agree they skim through long catch ups so it's a good way for scum to say a lot while not saying a lot under the radar. This doesn't seem to be the case with her. She was scumreading SirCakez the whole game. Had Unwnd as low null. I read through and I'm not seeing any agenda here.

-Dunnstral - Scum would likely be quicker to jump on the plan between me and beeboy and him. But he refused. He seemed like he was genuine in trying to understand stuff early game. We had similar reads early game. I think him passing the chain to NDMath to avoid a lynch based on activity comes from town. If they are scumbuddies I don't think he would be so obvious about it. He backed up his reasoning too and I think it comes from town. He said SirCakez seems town and he'd rather go for Unwnd (If unwnd is town he could have been trying to get the PR lynched?)


Null:
-TrueSoulEnergy - I'm really confused by this slot. I find a lot of TSE's reactions to be town frustration but I'm not sure if it's faked as scum. There was quite a bit of spam which I'm wary of since that's an easy way for scum to look busy or get their post count up.

-NDMath - Hard to get a read from 11 posts and I don't have a strong enough read from anything he has said so far. Need to hear more from this. In Switch he posted 28 total before his death which was N2 and page 22 (as town). In Mini Normal 2125 he posted about 50 times from post 500 to post 2000 (as town). So this activity level doesn't seem to be unusual as town. I can't seem to find any scum examples though.

-springlullaby - None of her reads felt opportunistic which is a good sign, she wasn't just saying what everyone else was. It was town oriented to decide the quiz first then pass the chain because that way we could make sure the quiz team wouldnt be lynched and also it helped avoid scum just doing a safe pass to a quiz team member. A scum chain leader probably would have tried to create more chaos and worked a lot less hard trying to avoid that. PB never denied his claim. I think the claim comes from town although unlikely I could see it being scum. There are some points I am concerned with though. All the numbers and stuff a few pages ago can be scum busywork, she seems to be pushing against looking into the quiz for scum because scum could have a role that tampers with it, and my point in 1609


Scum:
-Albert B. Rampage - Quite a bit of spam, didn't really do much at the start of D1, seemed to have no interest although that's an easy way for scum to get out of saying a lot, he seemed rushed about everything (passing the chain early D1, other times for passing the chain, getting a flip and ending the day). I found it strange how his proposed quiz team had BeeBoy. I expect him as town to know that BeeBoy can't be on the team. A lot of our reads or at least suspicions are similar though which means ABR is probably town or I really need to rethink my reads. He doesn't seem to be pushing for mislynches either, he's not really going after highly scumread players at all. I'm not really sure what I think of him honestly. His anger at the start of D2 seems fake.

-midwaybear - 11 seems like an attempt to waste some time/look busy. Most of his reads aren't original, he's jumping on what other people are saying. Nothing is definite, TSE's outburst was weird, in this interaction they //could// both be town, wary of TSE and Unwnd, states many times he's not confident (so he can backtrack easily later), seems overly concerned about being townread, wanted BeeBoy to be 2nd last then later admits to not understanding why everyone is TRing him, "farside, unwnd, tse, starbuck all give me doubts" again nothing definite, when people start to TR TSE he jumps in and says that on a reread TSE seems town. 1465 some shade on BeeBoy when he is highly townread by majority...

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can we lynch raya please

[Dunnstral]

I wanted to say that ABR is the scummiest player, but his anger feels genuine and I agree that we definitely did not use the mechanics in our favor yesterday. I agree with ND that we should decide the quiz team after not before passing the chain. ABR is still on my radar of suspicion though.

It was town oriented to decide the quiz first then pass the chain

His anger at the start of D2 seems fake.

Fight

[Albert B. Rampage]

Midway and raya are my new scumreads

[Raya36]

Honestly my main concerns with my scumread on ABR is that he is a very common scumread which means if he's scum his partners arent helping him out much. But the fact that he pointed this out makes me squint at him still. My other concern is that he is very vocal about his reads which I wouldn't really expect of most scum. I'm not sure if that is how scum!ABR acts or not. My counter to that concern is that his reads are quite inconsistent which lowers the value of each read if it ever came to searching for his buddy if he's scum.

[Raya36]

I wanted to say that ABR is the scummiest player, but his anger feels genuine and I agree that we definitely did not use the mechanics in our favor yesterday. I agree with ND that we should decide the quiz team after not before passing the chain. ABR is still on my radar of suspicion though.

It was town oriented to decide the quiz first then pass the chain

His anger at the start of D2 seems fake.

Fight

For example the caps lock starting "I AM SO MAD" sounded so fake to me. I have never heard anyone who's mad shout that they are mad.

Choosing the quiz team before passing the chain ensures scum doesnt mess around with the chain and "accidentally" leave a quiz member to the end. Also the first few people on the chain are likely general town reads anyway so we don't lose out on too much info by getting the team in first. Then the more scummy players can pass the chain around after

[Raya36]

Although I do get that choosing the quiz later still allows us to choose people who already have the chain and also we don't affect gaining info

[Raya36]

Actually on second thought maybe doing the quizzes after the chain has been passed around a bit is better and more town oriented. I'm just nervous of that because I don't want the quiz getting messed up somehow and failing by leaving it too late

[beeboy]

@Dunnstral how quick was the hammer?
Is Raya's "I ignored the pedit" story believable from your perspective of being their?

[Starbuck]

@Dunnstral how quick was the hammer?
Is Raya's "I ignored the pedit" story believable from your perspective of being their?

From someone not of those two, it was within the same minute by the timestamp.

[Raya36]

@Dunnstral how quick was the hammer?
Is Raya's "I ignored the pedit" story believable from your perspective of being their?

If you want a bit more explanation at the end of D1 I was doing a lot of catching up and when I made my catch up posts I would ignore all the p.edits. So the habit crossed over to the PT

[midwaybear]

I’m pretty busy and have no clue if I have the chain.
If I do.

VOTE: Midwaybear

Sweet, so now we know we have to leave you for the final 2

you said I was scum if cakez was scum. Does his town flip not make you reconsider?

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Lynch Starbuck please.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Me and Starbuck for F2 so I can be chain leader tomorrow.

[beeboy]

But it's much much more likely for scum to be on the quiz team than for the quiz team to be entirely town. The quiz part of the setup is already scumsided in my opinion. Having the ability to tamper with it as well would be very overpowered and very unfair for town.

Do you think the group had scum in it then? If not spring who do you think it is?
Weird perspective relative to your reads.

Not saying to go back and try and agree with me just wondering what your head space is.

[Starbuck]

I love how so many of you are resigned to my mislynch that no one is talking to me.

Sigh.

[Dunnstral]

I've been reading your posts

[beeboy]

I've been reading your posts

^

I don't see you dying and I don't want to kill you.
So I am sort of just reading your posts, nodding and moving on.

[Pink Ball]

I’m pretty busy and have no clue if I have the chain.
If I do.

VOTE: Midwaybear

Sweet, so now we know we have to leave you for the final 2

you said I was scum if cakez was scum. Does his town flip not make you reconsider?

No, I said Cakez was scum if you were scum, and I was wrong on him. You could still be scum, but I couldn't flip you back on D1 'cause you got the chain too early